ATR 72

squonk

Not sure what the view on here is of shows like Air Crash Investigation. I do know there was a thread on it a while back. What is the view on ATR's though?

My opinion of the plane has been that it's fine 80% of the time but you do end up in the weather in some cases because the aircraft can't go high enough to get above it in some cases. I had a flight on one at one point where we were going through some developing thunderstorms and getting a bit of a buffeting at times because of the heights of the heads.

I saw an episode of Aircrash Investigation last night where an American Eagle ATR crashed on holding for ORD due to ice buildup on the wings. I know the cause in the case was super cooled heavy drops which defeated the onboard deicing system but it also appeared that nothing much happened to resolve the issue by the end of the show either. I'm generally not a squemish flyer but I think I would have some reservations about flying an ATR at this point. Perhaps I'm wrong but at least with a jet, you can climb above dodgy weather and, if something bad does happen, you've got a good amount of reserve power to get yourself out of it. I'm don't work in the airline industry so I'm just wondering.... am I completely wrong and unfair on the ATR aircraft?

troposphere

American Eagle just stopped using them in the colder Northern states after the accident if I recall correctly.

Growler!!!

http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR96-01.pdf

Above is the actual NTSB report on the "Roselawn" crash. I wont re-hash it all but basically ATR increased the size of the de-icing boots on the leading edge of the wings and tail plane.

Holding in Known icing conditions is now prohibited except during single engine operation.

I fly different varients of the ATR at work and can assure you, that you should have no worries in regard to travelling on an ATR.

stopthepanic

Growler!!! wrote: »

Holding in Known icing conditions is now prohibited except during single engine operation.

What scenario can you describe where an aircraft operating on 1 engine would be made hold in known icing conditions, surely this a/c would be prioritized for landing, and don't call me Shirly!!!:D

Lustrum

stopthepanic wrote: »

What scenario can you describe where an aircraft operating on 1 engine would be made hold in known icing conditions, surely this a/c would be prioritized for landing, and don't call me Shirly!!!:D

If I was a hard ass interviewer, I would suggest that you arrive at an isolated aerodrome, but an aircraft has become disabled on the runway causing you to enter a hold. Then you lose an engine, just as the weather develops and all of a sudden you're holding in icing conditions on 1 engine! What do you do?

It's unlikely that it would happen, but then again the Air France flight was a jet that couldn't get above the dodgy weather, even with all that extra power (as referred to in the OP). ATRs are equally as safe as anything else you can fly in I would suggest

LeftBase

Lustrum wrote: »

If I was a hard ass interviewer, I would suggest that you arrive at an isolated aerodrome, but an aircraft has become disabled on the runway causing you to enter a hold. Then you lose an engine, just as the weather develops and all of a sudden you're holding in icing conditions on 1 engine! What do you do?

In the spirit of practice for interview I'm going to answer and see what people think!:D

Isolated aerodrome? Well it would seem to me that if it is isolated enough that no alternate is available there is not much that can be done. However I would not be flying to an aerodrome that isolated if it didn't had either 2 usable runways or I had enough fuel to reach an alternate. You have to have 2 hours worth of fuel at cruise speed in reserve anyhow for isolated ops to aerodromes?

Lustrum

I'm not an interviewer, but I suppose I'd be happy with that. But then the hard ass in me says, ok, it's actually Easter Island that you're flying to, they've only one runway, and the next closest airport is Santiago which is 5 hours away!

I'm sure LAN Chile have their own contingencies for this, but no harm thinking about it.

Also, sorry for going off topic

tonycombat

http://avherald.com/h?article=44d5e519&opt=0
Although it seems in this case, the fault was with the flight crew for not requesting ground de-iceing prior to departure.

De-iceing equipment is just 1 of several serious issues with ATR aircraft

Growler!!!

stopthepanic wrote: »

What scenario can you describe where an aircraft operating on 1 engine would be made hold in known icing conditions, surely this a/c would be prioritized for landing, and don't call me Shirly!!!:D

Shirly:D I cant....
However you are looking at the statement from the wrong direction:p
The statement was written into the FCOM after the Roselawn crash. It merely states the fact that holding in icing conditions is prohibited with flaps extended unless your in the sh#t with only one engine.

tonycombat wrote: »

http://avherald.com/h?article=44d5e519&opt=0
Although it seems in this case, the fault was with the flight crew for not requesting ground de-iceing prior to departure.

De-iceing equipment is just 1 of several serious issues with ATR aircraft

Your statement doesn't help in anyway the OP with their fear of the aircraft!

The issue in this case was that the flight crew didn't follow proper procedures, if it was a different type of turboprop the outcome would have been the same.

I'm not aware of any other serious issues with the ATR, if you can highlight some others ill add it to my knowledge.

savagecabbages

I think that due to the nature of their operations -i.e. flying in&out of smaller airports often in remote mountainous areas etc- turboprop airliners will naturally find themselves in more hazardous environments more often than larger full jet types.

squonk

I should clarify that I'll still fly ATR and this thread has informed me quite a bit, thanks! I still guess though that if I have the choice between an operator using an ATR and one using something jet powered, I'll go Jet.

There's also the factor though that I love takeoffs and landings in a jet aircraft! I don't get the same buzz out of a turboprop!