Bus driver refused to allow 2 passengers off his bus

brownswiss

Not sure where to put this...

Last night at about 3.30 am a private bus owner/driver dropped two young people off his bus just before his own house which was at least 10 miles from where they had paid to be dropped.This was a very rural area and it took until after 5am before they managed to contact anyone for a lift. They had asked on a number of occassions to be left off the bus or brought home... He refused... He would only let them out at the furthest point from their homes. I spoke to the driver and his version is naturally very different to the two passengers. The passengers actually thought the driver was pulling a prank on them until he arrived almost at his own home... then he very visiously ( verbally ) told them to F... off the bus.

Having spoken to the bus driver i have to say i do not believe his version of events as they do not add up... If he had any problem with the said passengers he would kick them off the bus rather than keep them on...

The passengers in question want the other passengers interviewed to verify the truth.

Under any circumstances would he have been justified in doing this..?

He knew where they got on the bus so his claim that he did not know where they wanted to go is not true.

cee_jay

Post split from an unrelated thread in State Benefits. Sorry mods if it is not suitable for here.

AlekSmart

Very little chance of any really meaningful response here either,it'll boil back down to Black vs White ....Perhaps Foggy_Lad might adjudicate..?

corktina

yeah, details are sketchy and i cant see any point in it being here. OP should take it up with Bus Company or a Solicitor

liger

corktina wrote: »

yeah, details are sketchy and i cant see any point in it being here. OP should take it up with Bus Company or a Solicitor

This is the transport forum. surely someone here can point the OP in the direction of a NTA type thing. If a guy holding a PSV licence kidnaps and abandons his passengers miles from anywhere surely someone should know when his licence is up for renewal or the gardai should remove his licence.

n97 mini

What's the bus driver's version of events?

ardmacha

It is potentially a criminal offence, i.e. wrongful imprisonment. A person found guilty of such a thing using a bus should arguably not hold a licence. You should talk to the Gardai.

Going Forward

brownswiss wrote: »

Not sure where to put this...

Last night at about 3.30 am a private bus owner/driver dropped two young people off his bus just before his own house which was at least 10 miles from where they had paid to be dropped.This was a very rural area and it took until after 5am before they managed to contact anyone for a lift. They had asked on a number of occassions to be left off the bus or brought home... He refused... He would only let them out at the furthest point from their homes. I spoke to the driver and his version is naturally very different to the two passengers. The passengers actually thought the driver was pulling a prank on them until he arrived almost at his own home... then he very visiously ( verbally ) told them to F... off the bus.

Having spoken to the bus driver i have to say i do not believe his version of events as they do not add up... If he had any problem with the said passengers he would kick them off the bus rather than keep them on...

The passengers in question want the other passengers interviewed to verify the truth.

Under any circumstances would he have been justified in doing this..?

He knew where they got on the bus so his claim that he did not know where they wanted to go is not true.

If this is true and accurate, the guy sounds like he shouldnt be in charge of a bus. 10 miles away from home in the middle of nowhere is no joke.

charlemont

Did it happen north of Cork City by any chance ?

Hilly Bill

brownswiss wrote: »

Not sure where to put this...

Last night at about 3.30 am a private bus owner/driver dropped two young people off his bus just before his own house which was at least 10 miles from where they had paid to be dropped.This was a very rural area and it took until after 5am before they managed to contact anyone for a lift. They had asked on a number of occassions to be left off the bus or brought home... He refused... He would only let them out at the furthest point from their homes. I spoke to the driver and his version is naturally very different to the two passengers. The passengers actually thought the driver was pulling a prank on them until he arrived almost at his own home... then he very visiously ( verbally ) told them to F... off the bus.

Having spoken to the bus driver i have to say i do not believe his version of events as they do not add up... If he had any problem with the said passengers he would kick them off the bus rather than keep them on...

The passengers in question want the other passengers interviewed to verify the truth.

Under any circumstances would he have been justified in doing this..?

He knew where they got on the bus so his claim that he did not know where they wanted to go is not true.

What is the drivers version of it? why just post part of the story?

Dravokivich

brownswiss wrote: »

Having spoken to the bus driver i have to say i do not believe his version of events as they do not add up... If he had any problem with the said passengers he would kick them off the bus rather than keep them on...

Right, so you've explained why you recon his version of events don't add up, but you've never stated his version of events. How are we meant to discuss anything or try to understand more on this?

brownswiss wrote: »

Under any circumstances would he have been justified in doing this..?

Yeap, I'm sure there could be many, but it'll be speculation if we aren't aware as much as possible as to what actually happened.

brownswiss wrote: »

He knew where they got on the bus so his claim that he did not know where they wanted to go is not true.

Where did he claim he didn't know where they were getting off? Another part of the story missing here. What else has he claimed or stated? To be honest, I wouldn't expect a driver to remember where all their passegners intend to get off. If it was a particular route he was doing, or he was chartered to bring them out further and he dicided to just cut it short for himself, then I'd be angry and annoyed at it happening to me.

Going Forward

Perhaps the passengers were messing or comatose with alcohol and werent capable of communicating with the driver, on the other hand, maybe they werent.

Whatever, the whole story has not been given here.
Extra relevant facts are being held back for some reason.

AlekSmart

brownswiss wrote: »

Not sure where to put this...

Last night at about 3.30 am a private bus owner/driver dropped two young people off his bus just before his own house which was at least 10 miles from where they had paid to be dropped.This was a very rural area and it took until after 5am before they managed to contact anyone for a lift. They had asked on a number of occassions to be left off the bus or brought home... He refused... He would only let them out at the furthest point from their homes. I spoke to the driver and his version is naturally very different to the two passengers. The passengers actually thought the driver was pulling a prank on them until he arrived almost at his own home... then he very visiously ( verbally ) told them to F... off the bus.

Having spoken to the bus driver i have to say i do not believe his version of events as they do not add up... If he had any problem with the said passengers he would kick them off the bus rather than keep them on...

The passengers in question want the other passengers interviewed to verify the truth.

Under any circumstances would he have been justified in doing this..?

He knew where they got on the bus so his claim that he did not know where they wanted to go is not true.

So,is this Driver known to you Brownswiss,or to the pasengers involved ?

Were you actually on the journey or are you posting as a result of hearsay ?

If you or the people concerned consider this allegation to be sufficiently serious then the first port of call should have been the Gardai,rather than Boards.ie.

Shhh

My bus route has express and normal buses on which my home town was a stop on the 'regular' route, I once missed the 'regular' bus and caught the next one - an express - expecting to be able to convince the driver to let me off at my 'regular' bus stop.. He wouldn't and brought me to the next 'express' stop which was 12 miles away.. I seriously didnt think I had any grounds for complaint and didn't do it again... What do you think of the chances that the OP's story ends up being something similar?

brownswiss

Shhh wrote: »

My bus route has express and normal buses on which my home town was a stop on the 'regular' route, I once missed the 'regular' bus and caught the next one - an express - expecting to be able to convince the driver to let me off at my 'regular' bus stop.. He wouldn't and brought me to the next 'express' stop which was 12 miles away.. I seriously didnt think I had any grounds for complaint and didn't do it again... What do you think of the chances that the OP's story ends up being something similar?

...

This was a private driver owned bus hired by a group to go for a night out. Pick up was in local town and drop off was either local town or at individual houses. Driver claimed the two passenger had not intended to pay on the initial journey as they had disembarked via rear exit as had half the other passengers, They did pay and also paid for return journey when they got on the bus, Driver claims they were causing trouble on the return journey. If this were true there is a Garda station near the first drop off point where they initially got on the bus and one would think he would just kick them off rather than drop them in the middle of nowhere.
If the Gardai get involved and the driver's version proves untrue he would be ruined... even though he lives in the middle of Nowhere this is a small rural community.
For many years this driver drove kids to school and to teenage discos while under the influence. The local Gardai must have been aware of this. Parents in our area were not made aware until be was eventually caught.

He is suppose to be off the drink now...
On the initial journey one of the lads warned him of a Garda check point outside the town. The bus was overflowing and most of the passengers had drink with them. Quite a few were standing so no seat belt..

His reply was F... the Gardai and he was waved through the check point.

starviewadams

Not the place to be discussing something like this I reckon,you should go and explain the situation to the Gardai if you are that worried OP.

CarrickMcJoe

That guy should lose his license, what if those 2 teens were hit by a car or abducted and killed.

brownswiss

AlekSmart wrote: »

Very little chance of any really meaningful response here either,it'll boil back down to Black vs White ....Perhaps Foggy_Lad might adjudicate..?

....

If the driver was sober the only rational explanation is that the passengers annoyed him and he was teaching them a lesson.

It could have been a very dear lesson if they had later been run down by a drunken bus driver as was likely in that area.

When the final passenger was being dropped at her house she offered to let the the two passengers in question get off with her but the driver would not allow them.

I am very surprised that the whole incident did not escalate in to a very serious row.

brownswiss

starviewadams wrote: »

Not the place to be discussing something like this I reckon,you should go and explain the situation to the Gardai if you are that worried OP.

...

I probably should go to the Gardai....

Why is it not the place to be discussing this? It was one of the Moderators placed it here as I could not figure out which forum was most appropriate

Where To

'They're all at it but our wans' is a saying that comes to mind.

Speaking from experience what goes on in a minibus full of young people and what is told by the young people when they go home is quite often very different.

brownswiss

Where To wrote: »

'They're all at it but our wans' is a saying that comes to mind.

Speaking from experience what goes on in a minibus full of young people and what is told by the young people when they go home is quite often very different.

...

Not sure how you are coming to that conclusion if you read my posts..

I am very well aware of what goes on in those buses and of the version of events that kids recount..

If the kids version is correct the bus driver should be jailed..

If the bus driver is being truthfull why did he drop off the passengers at the furthest point from their home

Where To

Again I'm only speaking from my own experience, I've no idea what went on here and there's three sides to very story.

I've put unruly passengers off a bus in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night, and I would be a lot more easy going than most. When the safety of other passengers, other roadusers and myself is in question I do it without hesitation, and I would do it again. I'm in a rural area too and the Garda response time for such incidents is measured in days, not hours, so that is not an option unfortunately.

AlekSmart

brownswiss wrote: »

...

Not sure how you are coming to that conclusion if you read my posts..

I am very well aware of what goes on in those buses and of the version of events that kids recount..

If the kids version is correct the bus driver should be jailed..

If the bus driver is being truthfull why did he drop off the passengers at the furthest point from their home

I'm afraid Brownswiss,that having read your supportive follow-up post,I would have even less inclination to be concerned.

We now know that there is "History" involved between you and this driver,something which was conspicuously left out of the first post.

At this point I would again recommend you take the evidence you currently possess and head for your local Garda station and ask to be directed to the PSV Sergeant or appropriate specialist member.

I'm somewhat unsure as to what you require from posters here,if the entirety of your allegation is as you've been told ?

zagmund

Alternatively the C&T forum could convene some sort of court thing and try the driver. Of course, we'll only have the evidence given by the OP to go on so we may as well cut it short and pronounce him guilty of "it" - where the definition of "it" may vary.

However, it sounds like the OP wants to convict and yet doesn't want to convict - as the poor oul driver will be ruined if his version of events is found to be untrue.

It seems pretty simple to me - if you are unhappy with the service provided by the driver (and you don't think it warrants going to the Gardai) then don't use him in the future. Use a driver from another town. It might be more expensive, but if the driver is as unsafe as suggested is it not worth the few extra euro for the peace of mind ? He will get the message pretty quickly.

z

brownswiss

"I'm afraid Brownswiss,that having read your supportive follow-up post,I would have even less inclination to be concerned.

We now know that there is "History" involved between you and this driver,something which was conspicuously left out of the first post."

Not sure from where you deduced that there is " History "

I have never met or spoke to the driver until after this incident. I do know of his history though....

someone who posted said they have thrown off passengers... That is understandable... Have you ever kept unruly passengers on the bus?

I was not on the bus so I only know versions of event..

What I asked was .. under ANY circumstances should those passengers have been kept on the bus and eventually let out near the bus driver's house.

Hilly Bill

So basically you have started a thread based on hearsay.

foggy_lad

brownswiss wrote: »

"I'm afraid Brownswiss,that having read your supportive follow-up post,I would have even less inclination to be concerned.

We now know that there is "History" involved between you and this driver,something which was conspicuously left out of the first post."

Not sure from where you deduced that there is " History "

I have never met or spoke to the driver until after this incident. I do know of his history though....

someone who posted said they have thrown off passengers... That is understandable... Have you ever kept unruly passengers on the bus?

I was not on the bus so I only know versions of event..

What I asked was .. under ANY circumstances should those passengers have been kept on the bus and eventually let out near the bus driver's house.

No, once any passenger requests to leave any public service vehicle they should be allowed do so at the nearest point the vehicle can be stopped safely.

By not allowing the passengers leave the bus the driver was effectively kidnapping them and they should make a complaint and statements at their local Garda station!

You have already been given good advice here. There is nothing else anyone here can tell you and no other advice anyone can give you!

end of the road

so the OP wasn't on the bus and is going on hearsay? great. it was probably something of nothing, they were probably drunk and couldn't tell the driver where they wanted to get off. the guardai aren't going to listen to something you weren't a witness to OP i'm afraid. if the people involved wish to make a complaint then they should. all though by now it might be a little late to investigate it but they could be lucky.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

No, once any passenger requests to leave any public service vehicle they should be allowed do so at the nearest point the vehicle can be stopped safely.

By not allowing the passengers leave the bus the driver was effectively kidnapping them and they should make a complaint and statements at their local Garda station!

You have already been given good advice here. There is nothing else anyone here can tell you and no other advice anyone can give you!

As always Foggy_Lad,there is seldom black n white in these things....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/about-us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Enforcement-Procedures/

(c) Where any such person refuses or fails to comply with a request under paragraph (a) or (b) of this Bye-Law or following such request such person gives a name and address which the authorised person has reasonable grounds for believing is false or misleading, such person may be detained by the authorised person until the arrival of a member of the Garda Síochána.

Now this particular operator is not DB,but,perhaps this operators Terms and Conditions of Travel are similarly worded,or even worded to a more stringent degree ?

This particular thread is about as threadbare as will be found,perhaps the Gardai will have a deeper interest....or perhaps not....;)

foggy_lad

foggy_lad wrote: »

No, once any passenger requests to leave any public service vehicle under normal circumstances when they are not being detained pending the arrival of the Gardai they should be allowed do so at the nearest point the vehicle can be stopped safely.

By not allowing the passengers leave the bus the driver was effectively kidnapping them and they should make a complaint and statements at their local Garda station!

You have already been given good advice here. There is nothing else anyone here can tell you and no other advice anyone can give you!

AlekSmart wrote: »

As always Foggy_Lad,there is seldom black n white in these things....

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/about-us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Enforcement-Procedures/



Now this particular operator is not DB,but,perhaps this operators Terms and Conditions of Travel are similarly worded,or even worded to a more stringent degree ?

This particular thread is about as threadbare as will be found,perhaps the Gardai will have a deeper interest....or perhaps not....;)

Should be ok now.

brownswiss

Thanks...

Some of the other passengers have persuaded the two passengers in question to go to the Gardai... There seems to be a consensus that the driver was on something ( besides the bus )...

It will be interesting to see what happens as he did seem to be above the law for years...

Post can be closed.. Thanks to all

green123

brownswiss wrote: »

If the bus driver is being truthfull why did he drop off the passengers at the furthest point from their home

obviously he did this to make life difficult for them.

they had messed him about earlier trying to dodge the fare so he was trying to teach them a lesson

brownswiss wrote: »

What I asked was .. under ANY circumstances should those passengers have been kept on the bus and eventually let out near the bus driver's house.

seems fair enough to me, it might teach them a lesson.

dont try dodge a fare and dont mess with bus drivers

end of the road

its obvious from the OPS posts he or she has an issue with the driver, would say this was something of nothing for definite now. whether he was (above the law for years) or not is irrelevant, the only relevant issue is what he is being accused of now not what he apparently got up to in the past.

AlekSmart

brownswiss wrote: »

Thanks...

Some of the other passengers have persuaded the two passengers in question to go to the Gardai... There seems to be a consensus that the driver was on something ( besides the bus )...

It will be interesting to see what happens as he did seem to be above the law for years...

Post can be closed.. Thanks to all

All that being said,Brownswiss,will you let the Board know the outcome of all this reportage as it occurs ?

newmug

brownswiss wrote: »

Thanks...

Some of the other passengers have persuaded the two passengers in question to go to the Gardai... There seems to be a consensus that the driver was on something ( besides the bus )...

It will be interesting to see what happens as he did seem to be above the law for years...

Post can be closed.. Thanks to all

Yeeeaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh right!

bucketybuck

brownswiss wrote: »

When the final passenger was being dropped at her house she offered to let the the two passengers in question get off with her but the driver would not allow them.

Seriously? Yeah right. What, he physically held them on the bus or something?

If the two passengers had wanted to get off the bus they would have gotten off, I doubt very much the driver held them prisoner.

the groutch

I call BS on this.
all the OP has to go on is the word of his friends, who I'm guessing if they were getting a bus at 3am were totally plastered at the time.

if they want to follow whatever legal avenues, so be it.
but nothing is being achieved by the OP spouting out 2nd hand info that may or may not be true.

brownswiss

the groutch wrote: »

I call BS on this.
all the OP has to go on is the word of his friends, who I'm guessing if they were getting a bus at 3am were totally plastered at the time.

if they want to follow whatever legal avenues, so be it.
but nothing is being achieved by the OP spouting out 2nd hand info that may or may not be true.

....

If you call BS on this then who can argue with you... Alot of the posters seem to know what happened on the bus and yet claim the op is acting on hearsay.... just think about it...

I think one poster answered the original question....

Hilly Bill

yep, the smell of bull back splatter is getting worse .

brownswiss

Hilly Bill wrote: »

yep, the smell of bull back splatter is getting worse .

....

why are the bus drivers responding in this manner and then being thanked by another bus driver?...If you think the driver in question was correct in what it is claimed he did that is fine.... i know it can be a tough job and in general it is the passenger who is wrong.... i sympathise with anyone ferrying drunk kids or adults home at night.....

There is no bs here... no history with the driver.... yes i do know of his history but that is just because it is a rural area....

I just wondered if the facts were as stated how then should the passengers proceed....

AlekSmart

brownswiss wrote: »

....

Why are the bus drivers responding in this manner and then being thanked by another bus driver?...If you think the driver in question was correct in what it is claimed he did that is fine.... i know it can be a tough job and in general it is the passenger who is wrong.... i sympathise with anyone ferrying drunk kids or adults home at night.....

There is no bs here... no history with the driver.... yes i do know of his history but that is just because it is a rural area....

I just wondered if the facts were as stated how then should the passengers proceed....

I think,Brownswiss,you've quite substantially made your point on this.

The issues most responders have had is your need for suggestions or support from Board members,rather than submitting all of the allegations to the Gardai,who would be far more suited to investigating it than mere remote Busdriving mortals.

The Driver in question may well have been 100% justified in taking whatever action in whatever circumstances actually existed on the night.

If that turns out to be the case,will you be prepared to post a mea-culpa on this thread also ?

brownswiss

AlekSmart wrote: »

I think,Brownswiss,you've quite substantially made your point on this.

The issues most responders have had is your need for suggestions or support from Board members,rather than submitting all of the allegations to the Gardai,who would be far more suited to investigating it than mere remote Busdriving mortals.

The Driver in question may well have been 100% justified in taking whatever action in whatever circumstances actually existed on the night.

If that turns out to be the case,will you be prepared to post a mea-culpa on this thread also ?

.....

The Passengers in question may well have been 100% correct in what they reported... They may also be incorrect..

where is the mea- culpa.... where did i say he was incorrect in dumping passengers out in the middle of nowhere... There is NO question about whether or not he did it,, .. He did... was he justified... ??

bus drivers say he was... they are the guys who know and also seem to know why it happened... yes i made my point and had intended once it became a Garda matter to have the post closed..... BUT then posters who criticised my use of " hearsay " are on here telling me for a fact what happened on the bus.

Hilly Bill

brownswiss wrote: »

....

why are the bus drivers responding in this manner and then being thanked by another bus driver?...If you think the driver in question was correct in what it is claimed he did that is fine.... i know it can be a tough job and in general it is the passenger who is wrong.... i sympathise with anyone ferrying drunk kids or adults home at night.....

There is no bs here... no history with the driver.... yes i do know of his history but that is just because it is a rural area....

I just wondered if the facts were as stated how then should the passengers proceed....

How do you know who is a bus driver or not on here?

Hilly Bill

brownswiss wrote: »

.....

The Passengers in question may well have been 100% correct in what they reported... They may also be incorrect..

where is the mea- culpa.... where did i say he was incorrect in dumping passengers out in the middle of nowhere... There is NO question about whether or not he did it,, .. He did... was he justified... ??

bus drivers say he was... they are the guys who know and also seem to know why it happened... yes i made my point and had intended once it became a Garda matter to have the post closed..... BUT then posters who criticised my use of " hearsay " are on here telling me for a fact what happened on the bus.

Facts are the one thing that is missing in this thread apart from the fact that you are not making much sense now.

Mr Simpson

AlekSmart wrote: »

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/about-us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Enforcement-Procedures/



Now this particular operator is not DB,but,perhaps this operators Terms and Conditions of Travel are similarly worded,or even worded to a more stringent degree ?

This particular thread is about as threadbare as will be found,perhaps the Gardai will have a deeper interest....or perhaps not....;)

Just on this, Dublin Bus can do this as they are covered by by-laws. Even if this is in the particular companies terms and conditions, it holds no merit. A civilian can only detain a person if they have commited an indictable offence (as far as I know this is something which carries a prison sentence of 5 years or more .ie Assault, Theft) anything else is false imprisonment and should be reported to Gardai. DB and IE are covered by law as they have authorised persons mentioned in law. Sorry for the slight off topicness.

brownswiss

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Facts are the one thing that is missing in this thread apart from the fact that you are not making much sense now.

...

YES!! just trying to be as silly as some of the other posters.... I thought that was obvious,,,

Time the Mods closed this i think

AlekSmart

brownswiss wrote: »

...

YES!! just trying to be as silly as some of the other posters.... I thought that was obvious,,,

Time the Mods closed this i think

I would respectfully disagree on the thread-closing issue.

The initial post was couched in quite serious terms,with a bare statement that Brownswiss "Did not believe" the Drivers account of the incident.

It is somewhat rich,having failed to secure universal board approval,to now sek the closure of the thread ?

I suggest it be left open with the chance of an informative update as and when the issue is resolved ?

brownswiss

AlekSmart wrote: »

I would respectfully disagree on the thread-closing issue.

The initial post was couched in quite serious terms,with a bare statement that Brownswiss "Did not believe" the Drivers account of the incident.

It is somewhat rich,having failed to secure universal board approval,to now sek the closure of the thread ?

I suggest it be left open with the chance of an informative update as and when the issue is resolved ?

...

Did I ever look for ANY approval let alone universal board approval. I asked for opinions on a situation as reported to me. The only Facts i could be aware of is that i found the two passengers in the middle of nowhere ... As pointed out by certain posters who seem more aware of the facts i am only going on hearsay...

One or two posters said based on the " Hearsay " they would report to the Garda and PSV Sergeant... other posters disputed what happened and there were many references to BS and many of the posts actual BS ...

Read through your own posts and ask yourself did you at any time answer the question and if so why you are still posting..
When a matter has been handed over to the Garda it is probably best if they keep you informed on here as you will not believe my hearsay anyway

AlekSmart

the groutch wrote: »

I call BS on this.
all the OP has to go on is the word of his friends, who I'm guessing if they were getting a bus at 3am were totally plastered at the time.

if they want to follow whatever legal avenues, so be it.
but nothing is being achieved by the OP spouting out 2nd hand info that may or may not be true.

I think The Groutch in post #37 was the first mention of BS.

As for the Gardai keeping us informed,I'd respectfully point out that if you felt strongly enough to start the thread,then the least we could expect is that you perhaps advise the board of the outcome.

Mind you,I'd be very interested in hearing the Coach Drivers version too.

Perhaps Brownswiss,as the Driver is known to you,a little hint might be dropped to him concerning the discusssion ongoing here,with a view to him giving his side of things.....particularly if the Gardai decline to take matters further ?