Would I be able to open up a private jail?

KiethM89

If I had a few million quid in the ashtray of the car or under the mattress to spare, would I be able to open up a purpose-built building of my own and use it as a privately-run prison and get money from the Irish state for housing inmates. I would run a tight ship unlike Irish prisons.

Serious question .. would this be plausible/feasible/doable under Irish law ??

Getting the idea from Mr. Burns' private prison on The Simpsons.

Tom Young

Is the State tendering for a shared services facility?
Is there legislation and intention by the Oireachtas to utilise shared services/private services for incarceration?
Would the provision of private services remove the ability of the perpetrators of crime to be rehabilitated?

Nothing stopping you opening one up. Filling it, that might be interesting.

I read recently about a Judge who was paid to fill juvenile detention centres in the US, commission based incarceration.

This is Ireland ....

dermot_sheehan

Yes, provided the Minister for Justice makes an order specifying the place as an alternative place prisoners can be committed to under s. 2 of the Prisons Act, 1970
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1970/en/act/pub/0011/sec0002.html

krd

KiethM89 wrote: »

I would run a tight ship unlike Irish prisons.

A tight ship.........would that be anything like the tight ships they used to transport Africans to a wonder new life in the new world in?

In the US they've had private prisons. With plenty of disastrous results.

Right 2B a liar

I read recently about a Judge who was paid to fill juvenile detention centres in the US, commission based incarceration.

[/QUOTE]

I seen that episode of Law & Order

Victor

dermot_sheehan wrote: »

Yes, provided the Minister for Justice makes an order specifying the place as an alternative place prisoners can be committed to under s. 2 of the Prisons Act, 1970
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1970/en/act/pub/0011/sec0002.html

Is that an interpretation too far?

"The Minister may ... provide places other than prisons ..." - it must be provided by the minister and it can't be a prison. It must also be "for the purpose of promoting the rehabilitation of offenders", which suggests some for of treatment or education or whatever kind.

Now, I can understand someone being referred to a training course or counselling or a restorative justice programme, but a private prison seems to be well beyond what the act contemplates.

Delancey

Almost impossible to overcome the resistance from the Unions I would say.

The_Minister

Right 2B a liar wrote: »

I read recently about a Judge who was paid to fill juvenile detention centres in the US, commission based incarceration.

I seen that episode of Law & Order [/QUOTE]

Based on real events sadly

Zambia

Group 4 or G4S run several prisons worldwide.

The practice is plausible. When state prisons make mistakes people say its because they are terrible prisons.
When private prisons make mistakes people say its because they are private prisons.

In essence I dont care as long as they stay locked up.

Robbo

I'm surprised such an idea was never floated under the PDs. It's McDowellian in all ways.

seamus

My suspicion here is that prison guards are members of the defence forces like Gardai and the Army and as such have special legal powers in order to carry out their duties.

A private prison officer would just be a civilian with no additional rights or powers under existing legislation, so it would not be possible to effectively run a prison - certainly not without opening up yourself and your staff to constantly being sued and complaints made about assaults and other criminal offences.

Ian Whelan

Halden prison in Norway is a good place to model it on. Seems like a lovely spot.

usernamegoes

Victor wrote: »

Is that an interpretation too far?

"The Minister may ... provide places other than prisons ..." - it must be provided by the minister and it can't be a prison. It must also be "for the purpose of promoting the rehabilitation of offenders", which suggests some for of treatment or education or whatever kind.

Now, I can understand someone being referred to a training course or counselling or a restorative justice programme, but a private prison seems to be well beyond what the act contemplates.

The current definition of prison includes a place designated under that that provision.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/act/pub/0010/sec0002.html#sec2

Zambia

seamus wrote: »

My suspicion here is that prison guards are members of the defence forces like Gardai and the Army and as such have special legal powers in order to carry out their duties.

A private prison officer would just be a civilian with no additional rights or powers under existing legislation, so it would not be possible to effectively run a prison - certainly not without opening up yourself and your staff to constantly being sued and complaints made about assaults and other criminal offences.

Yes but it would be a simple change to the definition of a prison guard and your good to go all powers would be legal. If that was the case its only legislation its not carved in stone.

Plus you can sue the state prison system just as easily as a private company for assault. If you are assaulted your are assaulted the army or the police have no more right to assault you than a private person.

At least I hope not anyway.

seamus

Zambia wrote: »

At least I hope not anyway.

They would have a stronger legal defence to a number of things, including assault as they can claim that they were carrying out an arrest or acting in the greater interest of keeping the peace (imagine a Garda pushing someone away, for example), or similar.

If legislation was passed to allow certain private operators the same powers as prison guards under licence, I suspect that could be challenged on a constitutional basis - off the top of my head, two articles would possibly be the keeping of a private armed force, or the fact that all persons are equal before the law.

Not saying it's not possible, but I suspect it would be a difficult one to write and sell.

Zambia

I would argue that some other time and thread if you are assaulted you are assaulted and your defence is your defence.

In regards constitution the dont you just put it to referendum repeatedly till you get the answer you want?:)

dermot_sheehan

Victor wrote: »

Is that an interpretation too far?

"The Minister may ... provide places other than prisons ..." - it must be provided by the minister and it can't be a prison. It must also be "for the purpose of promoting the rehabilitation of offenders", which suggests some for of treatment or education or whatever kind.

Now, I can understand someone being referred to a training course or counselling or a restorative justice programme, but a private prison seems to be well beyond what the act contemplates.

I suppose depends on meaning of "provide" and can it include a contract with a private third party. Presumably it's to enable prisons other than those run directly by the Irish Prison Service under the Prison (Ireland) Act (1883) and various amending legislation, but whether it requires the prison to be directly owned and operated by a State agency seems unclear.