Banned From After Hours- My Appeal For Justice

Cruel Sun

Recently I was banned from AH permanently. I think my ban is unjustified and it should either be revoked or reduced. I messaged the Mod who gave me the ban but he dismissed my appeal.

I'm relatively new to boards and the internet and such, so on joining this forum I decided to study the Boards Guidelines extensively to avoid any possible problems arising. I have adhered to all of the rules as outlined.

The ban came about over a number of disingenuous threads that I created designed to amuse and provide a break from the hard lives the people of Ireland are facing. The content of the threads in question was harmless and unoffensive.

I was unaware that what I was doing would result in me getting a ban as it was not detailed in the guidelines as being illegal. After receiving my ban I decided to do some research via the internet and discovered that what I was doing was in fact a commonly known internet phenomena known as "trolling", which is generally frowned upon by the online community.

I apologize for any inconvenience caused and assure you I will not make the same error again. I believe my ban should be at the very least reduced as I followed the Guidelines exactly, and technically did not break any rules. I was unaware that what I was doing was prohibited.

I hope my situation can be seen for what it is, a big misunderstanding. I've been very impressed with all of the mods on boards and I would hate for this experience to spoil my opinion of the site.


Many Thanks.

Martin.

mikedragon32

Welcome to boards.ie and to the Derp!

Anyway, have a read of the process outlined at the top of the forum and the top of this thread. You will see that the first step in the process is to contact the Mod who banned you via PM and discuss the ban. This is always the first course of action and once that's done, you can advise as to how you want this to progress.

Cruel Sun

Hi Mike, yeah I messaged the forum mod a few days ago, KiethM89 was his name I think. We discussed the ban in length.

mikedragon32

Can you forward me the PMs please?

I understand Keith is on holibobs so I'll take it from here once you've sent those on.

Cruel Sun

Do I have to forward them all separately. There's about 15 messages, what would be the quickest way?

mikedragon32

If the conversation is quoted within each PM then the last one sent/received will have the rest of the messages within.

Cruel Sun

There was quite a number of messages. The last message doesn't show the first couple of messages. The details are hidden. It says quote but doesn't show the message.

mikedragon32

OK. Just go to your inbox and open the last PM you got from Keith and forward that to me, then do the same with the last PM you sent to Keith from your sent box.

mikedragon32

Hi Martin_94.

thanks for sending on the PM conversation, which I have read through.

A number of points strike me from this conversation:

First up, there is no point rules lawyering. Telling a Mod that he can't ban you because you've done nothing against the charter will not do you any good. No charter is all-encompassing, nor are the Guidelines for use of Boards exhaustive.

I would point your attention to this section of the Guidelines:

Discretion of the Moderator

If you think these rules bind the moderators hands, think again. The moderators have discretion to react and moderate as they see fit, in the best interests of the forum they take care of. You can challenge a decision using the Dispute Resolution Process, but don’t think for a moment you can use the guidelines above to find some semantic loophole to excuse your behaviour (people who do this are known as “rules lawyers” and are seen as a small step above trolls). It’s not going to work. The spirit of the law is more important than the wording of the law on boards.ie and our guidelines can and will change if and when there’s need.

Now, following from Keith's PM where he linked to the section above, you chose to misinterpret this as an accusation that you'd gone against another section of the guidelines, muddying the issue. Following this you concede that you've never denied trolling and that you were not explicitly told that you couldn't troll. If you had read the charter, like you're supposed to, you would have seen this:

A troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Just as bad as trolling is "Feeding the Trolls". Please do not reply to comments that are blatantly from a troll. If you do please try not to abuse them or call these posters trolls. It is up to the moderators to judge this so simply report the posts or private message any moderator of after hours. At the point at which a troll has gotten a negative reply from you they have won. The trolling was successful and has been fed. When encouraged by success and feeding, trolls often return.

If you hang around long enough you will get to spot them quickly. We can all lose the head with people on the internet. Mainly because it's easy.
But we would implore you to not feed the trolls. Instead report them to us moderators.

I have bolded the bits I want to emphasise. If posters are told that feeding trolls is as bad as trolling, what would lead you then to believe that trolling is ok? Furthermore, if posters are encouraged to report trolls, this would also lead to the logical conclusion that it is frowned upon by the moderators.

Finally, your last PM to Keith was condescending to say the least. If you cannot understand what a moderator is trying to tell you and counter-arguing that it's not in the charter (even though it clearly is), being a smart-arse will do you no favours. The moderators are volunteers who give up their time to ensure that the forums are a good place for those who want to enjoy it.

The exchange of PMs with Keith tells me that you clearly didn't understand the charter or the guidelines, despite your study of them and your hostility in thinking you know better does you no favours. This is compounded by the fact that you were already banned for a week for the same offence. I believe that you know full well why you're banned and have only contested it now because it's a permaban.

For all the reasons above, I am forced to conclude that the Permanent Ban must be upheld.

As per the DRP guidelines, if you wish to take this further up the line, you may seek the intervention of an Administrator, however if you are satisfied with the decision made here, the matter can be marked resolved. Either way, please advise.

M

Cruel Sun

Hi Mike, thank you for your reply.

When I read the charter I wasn't really sure what trolling was, so I kind of skipped through it. My bad, I should have looked up what it meant on the internet.

I have a number of issues with your reply however.


1- "Finally, your last PM to Keith was condescending to say the least."

My reply may have seemed condescending but that certainly was not my intention. I had become somewhat frustrated throughout the conversation as a number of smart replies had been sent to me, and before I was banned I was told to "Pick a number between 1 and 6" which seemed to imply that if I selected the right number I would be let off. On asking "why", I was told "just for fun". Whether genuine or not, this sort of behavior is unprofessional to say the least.

"being a smart-arse will do you no favours"

Does Keith know this?


2- "you chose to misinterpret this as an accusation that you'd gone against another section of the guidelines, muddying the issue"

So your saying that I "chose" to misinterpret the accusation rather than just make a simple human error. Did you see inside my mind on the night in question? Personally I find that entire statement to be fairly pathetic to be honest.

3-"The moderators are volunteers who give up their time to ensure that the forums are a good place for those who want to enjoy it."

I don't see how any of my posts have prevented anyone from enjoying the forum. I personally found myself quite amused at this statement, as I have witnessed many examples of bullying, racism etc. etc. on this site yet the perpetrators go unnoticed. Why have I been singled out for the permaban, when I have caused no harm to anyone?


I'm in the Leaving Cert section mostly and can honestly say that all the mods are fantastic and have successfully ensured that none of the above problems have occurred.

As the Leaving Cert has concluded I will not be present on boards as often as I once was. However, I feel as though it would be irresponsible of me not to outline the many problems present on this site.

I hope you will take what I have said into consideration.



Yours Sincerely,

Martin_94

mikedragon32

It never ceases to amuse me that trolls don't like being trolled and in asking you to pick a number, that's precisely what Keith was doing. Unprofessional, perhaps, but I nearly snorted coffee out my nose when I read it.

As for you not knowing what trolling is, you read the guidelines. Studied them, in fact. Extensively, no less. You said so in your OP. So how then do you explain not knowing what a troll is after having studied this?

You've been caught bang to rights. If you wish to bump this up the line to admin, fire away.

Admin, if you require the PM thread, I can forward it on. I deemed it inappropriate to publish without the say-so of Keith, who is away.

Cruel Sun

Hi Mike,

"It never ceases to amuse me that trolls don't like being trolled and in asking you to pick a number, that's precisely what Keith was doing."

In any of my "troll" posts nobody was teased or made fun of. This seems to be the main issue here, you don't seem to be able to differentiate between a thread causing no harm intended as a bit of a laugh or someone making fun of someone. That is something that personally I find quite sad.

"As for you not knowing what trolling is, you read the guidelines. Studied them, in fact. Extensively, no less."

I studied the guidelines, yes. However I stated nowhere that I did any further study of the Boards.ie rules. I believed that no other study was required, surely what was outlined in the guidelines was enough. No?


I find it interesting that you chose to ignore point 2 and point 3, however it's not surprising.

mikedragon32

Just not wasting any more of my time on you. Why would that surprise you? You say you studied the Guidelines. Study means to extensively research or examine a subject in detail. Really. It does. If you'd read more than just the simple block of text you might have seen all those links below it. Someone claiming to have examined the subject in detail would follow these links.

If an admin deems it necessary to go into detail on the second or third points, so be it, but that's not the point of the dispute. This is my last post on this matter unless an admin requires any further input from me.

Cruel Sun

May I request a second opinion from Admin please.

Trojan

Martin_94 wrote: »

May I request a second opinion from Admin please.

Sure.

Mike, can you hit "Report PM" on the relevant PMs so they're available to the admins?

mikedragon32

Trojan wrote: »

Sure.

Mike, can you hit "Report PM" on the relevant PMs so they're available to the admins?

Will do. G'em had asked for them in the AH Mods forum already.

Trojan

Martin_94 wrote:

I never denied trolling, you'd have to be an idiot not to realise I was trolling. My initial problem was never being informed that trolling was forbidden in the Guidelines.

My appeal will go ahead.

And your appeal is denied.

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, and in this case you claimed to have studied the boards.ie guidelines. How could you have thought that trolling was acceptable? It wastes volunteer mods time (as does this DR process).

I'll give you some hope of reducing this permanent ban to a 6 month ban. If you open a new DRP here in ~6 months - anytime after 24th December coincidentally - and link to this thread, I'll review your contributions on the site by that date. If they've been positive I will make a special request to the AH mods to request they allow you in then.

Resolved - original ban upheld.