knee pain - new shoes/rest??

Sin1981

Hi,
I've been running for a number of years, I've done several half marathons. Never had any knee problems, except the odd twinge that went very quickly. Actually it is very very rare for me to get an pain in my knees. I did a half marathon a month ago, and trained from around Xmas time, ~6 miles on the road each time 3/4 times per week, surface was flat and hilly. Again, I never had a minutes problem with my left knee during that time or even on race day. Since the run, I've cut down a bit, but the other week started to get knee pain in left knee during a 6 mile run (not excruciating, discomfort really). But I slowed down. I've gotten it each time I've gone out since (3 times), and those times it's been more painful, so each time I stopped and walked the remainder/home. So now I'm worried.

I have Asics Kayano, always found them good (I overpronate). Would it be wise to buy a new pair? I reckon this pair have done ~260miles on the road, and another 100-150 on the treadmill (does treadmill count??). Is it time to buy new ones??

I also know I need to rest it. How long should I rest it for? 1 week, 2 weeks?? I want to rest it/get new shoes before I start out again or go down the route of seeing doctor/physio.

thanks for reading.:)

wrstan

If you're worried about it, my reccomendation would be to go see a physio. Worst that could happen is you still spend a lot less than a new pair of Kayanos, and you might get some good exercises that would assist your running and injury prevention for a long time. The worst case of the alternative could be unthinkable!
Why not get a recommendation for a physio that understands running (and maybe more importantly understands runners!).

rom

The bounce could be gone in the shoes. It is probably the case that you will have to replace them soon anyways so if you buy a new pair and it goes away then great but if it doesn't then I would go to a physio and alternate the pairs until the old pair is end of life. You will need runners at some stage anyways. If you can get proper gait analysis done when buying them too it may help because it is possible that it may have changed if you have done it before according to amphibianking. I had a niggle the other week so I retired my oldest shoes which were about 480 miles. Niggle now gone. Its handy to have a 2nd pair anyways so you let the other pair dry out I find anyways. Currently rotating 4 pairs but one of these will become end of life soon so I machine wash them then and use them for walking.

MrCreosote

Another vote for a physio here.

The shoes are a red herring. Find out what the problem is before changing too much.

Clearlier

Sin1981 wrote: »

Hi,
I've been running for a number of years, I've done several half marathons. Never had any knee problems, except the odd twinge that went very quickly. Actually it is very very rare for me to get an pain in my knees. I did a half marathon a month ago, and trained from around Xmas time, ~6 miles on the road each time 3/4 times per week, surface was flat and hilly. Again, I never had a minutes problem with my left knee during that time or even on race day. Since the run, I've cut down a bit, but the other week started to get knee pain in left knee during a 6 mile run (not excruciating, discomfort really). But I slowed down. I've gotten it each time I've gone out since (3 times), and those times it's been more painful, so each time I stopped and walked the remainder/home. So now I'm worried.

I have Asics Kayano, always found them good (I overpronate). Would it be wise to buy a new pair? I reckon this pair have done ~260miles on the road, and another 100-150 on the treadmill (does treadmill count??). Is it time to buy new ones??

I also know I need to rest it. How long should I rest it for? 1 week, 2 weeks?? I want to rest it/get new shoes before I start out again or go down the route of seeing doctor/physio.

thanks for reading.:)

You could try running in anything else (e.g. work shoes if they have a soft sole). If the problem disappears it's probably the runners. If it persists it's probably something else.

rom

MrCreosote wrote: »

Another vote for a physio here.

The shoes are a red herring. Find out what the problem is before changing too much.

I spend a lot on physio last year and not much on runners. I am spending nothing on physio this year but much more on runners. Just saying that OP will need to replace runners at some stage anyways. One trip to the physio generally won't solve everything. I find a foam roller and these exercises http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJLxruO3su0 are the reason I am staying injury free.

Hanley

rom wrote: »

I spend a lot on physio last year and not much on runners. I am spending nothing on physio this year but much more on runners. Just saying that OP will need to replace runners at some stage anyways. One trip to the physio generally won't solve everything. I find a foam roller and these exercises http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJLxruO3su0 are the reason I am staying injury free.

+1

That's a really good foam roll series. Don't neglect the calves or the soles of the feet either (hockey/golf ball for this).

Another thing to look at and be aware of is glute dysfunction - if your bum ain't working properly it can lead to internal rotation at your knee which'll put a lot of stress on the ITB, ACL and meniscus/cartilage. Also means you'll increase your risk of over pronating and all the achilles and knee dysfunction that comes about as a result.

menoscemo

Hanley wrote: »

Another thing to look at and be aware of is glute dysfunction - if your bum ain't working properly it can lead to internal rotation at your knee which'll put a lot of stress on the ITB, ACL and meniscus/cartilage. Also means you'll increase your risk of over pronating and all the achilles and knee dysfunction that comes about as a result.

I get a bit of this from time to time tight hamstrings/glutes leading to ITB. What do you recommend for this? Strengthening or stretching? Any particular excercises?

MrCreosote

rom wrote: »

I spend a lot on physio last year and not much on runners. I am spending nothing on physio this year but much more on runners. Just saying that OP will need to replace runners at some stage anyways. One trip to the physio generally won't solve everything. I find a foam roller and these exercises http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJLxruO3su0 are the reason I am staying injury free.

Just saying the OP has a choice between finding out exactly what is wrong and going from there, or taking a potshot with various footwear changes or home treatments first. I know which I'd choose.

Hanley

menoscemo wrote: »

I get a bit of this from time to time tight hamstrings/glutes leading to ITB. What do you recommend for this? Strengthening or stretching? Any particular excercises?

This website is an incredible read: http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/11/shoes-sitting-and-lower-body-dysfunctions/

I've always found you need to roll the hell outta your ITB and quads/hamstrings before trying to do strengthening work (ie foam roll then go immediately into the strengthening work).

On a very basic level, these 3 boys are a good starting point:

x band walks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK58Ii9ozmM (just be aware you really need to be in a 1/4 squat position for this to work best because it brings in more glute med recruitement - not standing up straight like the dude in the video

lying clams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvxR5LoOu8Y

cook hip lift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WIZOZLRm3c

Hanley

MrCreosote wrote: »

Just saying the OP has a choice between finding out exactly what is wrong and going from there, or taking a potshot with various footwear changes or home treatments first. I know which I'd choose.

A lot of the time when it comes to physios, you're taking potshots there too in fairness.

A good physio is deffo the preference tho.

NiallFH

Had a similar problem myself and replaced my shoes with a pair of brooks and got an in sole recommended by the physio to give a bit more support in my arches. It didn't really help if I'm honest so as everyone else has said I would recommend a trip to the Physio (was meant to go back myself, never did, for shame!)

Hanley

NiallFH wrote: »

Had a similar problem myself and replaced my shoes with a pair of brooks and got an in sole recommended by the physio to give a bit more support in my arches. It didn't really help if I'm honest so as everyone else has said I would recommend a trip to the Physio (was meant to go back myself, never did, for shame!)

This is exactly what I was talking about when I said phyisos can be pot luck.

Far too many just address the symptom and not the cause. If anyone ever goes to a physio and all they do is poke about and strap you up or give you insoles, I'd be out the door never to return.

Non-acute injuries/niggles happen for a reason. If you don't address the CAUSE you're absolutely wasting your time.

MrCreosote

Hanley wrote: »

A good physio is deffo the preference tho.

+1

One experienced with runners is what you want.

Murta

Sin1981 wrote: »

I reckon this pair have done ~260miles on the road, and another 100-150 on the treadmill (does treadmill count??). Is it time to buy new ones??

Yeap, treadmill counts. Even walking in them will wear out the cushioning. Here's a usefull article: http://running.about.com/od/shoesapparelandgear/f/replaceshoes.htm

ecoli

Mod: Gentle reminder, general advice is okay but please don't try and diagnose symptoms. While many people can have the same injury many times the root of the injury can widely vary. This is why medical advice is in breach of charter

Sin1981

OP here

yes, it happens during the run. The other evening, I was about 2km in when i started to feel it, got steadily worse. Now, I'm not talking excruciating to the point where I wasn't able to run, just quite sore, and I felt that running on like this was simply not right.

It's my left knee. I'd say the pain in mostly towards the outside, and towards the outer left side , but feel it in the centre of the knee a bit as well.

I think I'm due a new pair or runners soon regardless so might get them anyway, give the running a break for 10 days or so, try out the new runners, and any problems I'll be going straight to physio.

Incidentally, the first time I felt a bit of a twinge was while playing tag rugby about 3 weeks ago. and it's actually since that that I have felt pain when running. So maybe it was a combination of football boots, hard pitch etc and setting off on a sprint that might have caused a bit of injury.....

thanks for all the replies though, didn't expect so many so soon

Hanley

It's rare that just resting is the answer. It's almost always doomed to reoccur unless you tackle the issue (it could be physiological, but it could also be how you approach training).

Good look either way

Slydice

I ran for about 8 months before getting knee pain. Just happened that I stopped running at the same time. Few years later, I started running again and the pain came back.

Physio (with the assistance of Doctors appointment and an MRI) has helped me out.

I recommend you go to a physio.

New shoes might be good but, from what I gather, there's loads of possible causes of knee pain so better to be sure by talking to Physio/Doctor

rom

For myself if my shoes are getting old and give me a niggle. If I think run the same distance on grass and no niggle = new shoes.

Murraythree

From my experience Asics Kayano and knee pain/problems go together. My advise would be to get a different pair of runners. Best of luck.