Moved Country. Not paying my mortgage anymore

kegzmc

Hi there,

I'm looking for some advice for my situation...

I moved my family from Ireland 2 years ago for employment reasons. I have 2 houses still in Ireland which are both in negative equity. I talked to the bank in the hope that they would let me sell one and take the negative equity across to the other leaving me with one mortgage. They refused to do this.

I've never missed a payment in 7 years on one and 4 on the other. We are in process of purchasing a house in new country. It is my intention now to only pay one Irish mortgage and forget about the other and allow it to be repossessed. I know this is not the right thing to do but I dont see the point in paying this anymore as its a burden.

My question is this. When house is repossessed, can they take the other one in Ireland? Can they force me to sell that one or the one in new country?

Thanks

latenia

You sign up to a website to ask people's advice on the implications of you doing a runner and leaving us, through the nationalised banks, to pay for the shortfall. Pay your debts you ****** ***** *****.

kegzmc

No need for the insults please. Can you answer the question?

Surveyor11

Why can't you just man up, sell the houses and take a hit on the NE? A bank may write this down. Would be great if we could all head off as we see our property as a 'burden'. Jesus, no wonder we're fooked.

neil_hosey

me, and others, the tax payers, will end footing that bill.... that annoys me that you think this is ok :mad:

daltonmd

kegzmc wrote: »

Hi there,

I'm looking for some advice for my situation...

I moved my family from Ireland 2 years ago for employment reasons. I have 2 houses still in Ireland which are both in negative equity. I talked to the bank in the hope that they would let me sell one and take the negative equity across to the other leaving me with one mortgage. They refused to do this.

I've never missed a payment in 7 years on one and 4 on the other. We are in process of purchasing a house in new country. It is my intention now to only pay one Irish mortgage and forget about the other and allow it to be repossessed. I know this is not the right thing to do but I dont see the point in paying this anymore as its a burden.

My question is this. When house is repossessed, can they take the other one in Ireland? Can they force me to sell that one or the one in new country?

Thanks

The reality is that you are not broke, you are buying another property in another country and the banks won't take kindly to you prioritising a new mortgage over your existing one.

I think it is the case that repossession only takes place if you cannot pay your debt, I stand to be corrected on this - but this is not your situation,

You are choosing to buy a new home when you should be paying your mortgages.

desertcircus

kegzmc wrote: »

No need for the insults please. Can you answer the question?

In fairness, you're asking a group of people for advice on offloading your debt to them. Can you explain why people shouldn't be offended?

seamus

kegzmc wrote: »

My question is this. When house is repossessed, can they take the other one in Ireland? Can they force me to sell that one or the one in new country?

Technically, yes they can force the sale of both houses in Ireland, but not necessarily in the new country.

If you're now living in the EU, you can be chased across jurisidictions for the debt, which depending on the jurisdictional rules could result in the sale of your new house.

riclad

IF the bank has loans on both houses ,they ,ll take back at least the one thats not being paid on ,thru the courts once they figure out you are gone, and sell the house.
They,ll sell em for x amount and you,ll still owe whats left.
YOU could have gone to uk,for 6months .establish residency,rent a flat, and declared bankruptcy ,
after 1 year , all your debts are wiped out.
You should speak to a lawyer and a financial expert ,thats just my opinion.
ON pat kenny show theres a court report on bank,mortgage cases, every few weeks, when the mortrgage holder leaves house,
bank usually goes to court, for repossesion order, and sells the house.
if loan is no longer being paid, owner has left the country.

i believe they can if they want sell both houses,if they want,
why would they sell a house for 150k,
if the loan is 230k, and the loan is still being paid.

This crisis only started in 2008, so far i,ve never heard of a case
where an irish bank went after a person for money outside ireland
re house loans.
From listening to pat kenny show ,person leaves, house is sold,
that seems to be the end of it,
OF course anglo ,other banks have many legal cases going on
against builders or developers or companys who owe them milllions,
ie the few left who are not in nama,
or have declared bankruptcy.
AS ABOVE IF you are in the eu, they can still go to court in your new country,
eg if they sell the houses, you could owe 200k,for example, PLUS interest at standard mortgage rate.
theres a new bankruptcy law coming to ireland which is supposed to help
people are in extreme financial distress , eg owe alot of money ,and are now on a lower income ,with little chance of ever paying their debts.

December2012

kegzmc wrote: »

No need for the insults please. Can you answer the question?

Yes, yes, we should all rush to you with advice for free to help you abandon your debt to us.

kegzmc

daltonmd wrote: »

The reality is that you are not broke, you are buying another property in another country and the banks won't take kindly to you prioritising a new mortgage over your existing one.

I think it is the case that repossession only takes place if you cannot pay your debt, I stand to be corrected on this - but this is not your situation,

You are choosing to buy a new home when you should be paying your mortgages.

What if the mortgage was placed in my wifes name whos name does not appear on Irish mortgages?

kegzmc

Surveyor11 wrote: »

Why can't you just man up, sell the houses and take a hit on the NE? A bank may write this down. Would be great if we could all head off as we see our property as a 'burden'. Jesus, no wonder we're fooked.

If you bothered to read the post you'll see I have approached the banks and tried to take on the negative equity. They were not interested.

I can purchase a house for a fifth of the price of Ireland and will have a pretty small mortgage rather than trying to pay for a house I'll never see the end of.

Hope this makes sense.

Surveyor11

kegzmc wrote: »

I talked to the bank in the hope that they would let me sell one and take the negative equity across to the other leaving me with one mortgage. They refused to do this.

Not quite the same, you have to sell both and sort out the negative equity, either pay it off or try and get a write down from the bank. Not the same thing as you have suggested. Any bank that sees you buggering off is unlikely to take you on with a NE mortgage - alarm bells would be ringing everywhere in the underwriting dept. Why don't you just take responsibility, rather than expecting other people to foot your debts?

Zamboni

He is no worse than the rest of them. Strategic defaulters, bailed out bankers, corrupt politicians, joe bloggs with lack of financial planning, political parties that reward recklessness with additional mortgage TRS.
The only idiots here are the ones still paying tax in this asylum.

kegzmc, is your wife's name not on the two mortgages in Ireland?

kegzmc

Its just my name on mortgages.

daltonmd

kegzmc wrote: »

What if the mortgage was placed in my wifes name whos name does not appear on Irish mortgages?

DId you already buy the house abroad? If so then the banks can track back as to when you did this, and if they see it was recent then they will view it as something you did in order to be deceptive.

You see you can afford to repay both mortgages. You asked to bank could you sell one and take the NE across and have one mortgage, they said no, now because they said no you want to stop paying on a mortgage - that doesn't make sense.


You want to have one mortgage? Even if they said yes, then the NE would have been turned into a personal loan, it wasn't going to be financially advantageous to you anyway.

daltonmd

Zamboni wrote: »

He is no worse than the rest of them. Strategic defaulters, bailed out bankers, corrupt politicians, joe bloggs with lack of financial planning, political parties that reward recklessness with additional mortgage TRS.
The only idiots here are the ones still paying tax in this asylum.

kegzmc, is your wife's name not on the two mortgages in Ireland?

Now this is a completely different situation Zamboni. This is a "I don;t want to pay", to say people like this are the same as those who are staying in this country and struggling is wrong.

kegzmc

I think we are wandering off the question here.

Can the bank pursue a house in my wifes name if I fail to meet mortgage repayments on a property in Ireland?

seamus

Probably, yes. For legal purposes yourself and your wife are generally considered to be a single entity unless either party can show that the debts were incurred without the other spouse's knowledge.

kegzmc

Hi Seamus,

Thanks for that. Perhaps I need to seek legal advice before we draw down.

donalg1

Its pretty understandable why people would be annoyed by this, you took out a mortgage on a second property (borrowed recklessly obviously) now that it hasnt worked out you have decided that the mortgage is too big so your not paying it, instead you are going to ask others to pay it for you while you take out a smaller mortgage elsewhere and live comfortably leaving those that are paying your other mortgage here struggle on for a bit more.:mad:

Zamboni

kegzmc wrote: »

I think we are wandering off the question here.

Can the bank pursue a house in my wifes name if I fail to meet mortgage repayments on a property in Ireland?

It would really depend on which country you are in.

Gurgle

Zamboni wrote: »

He is no worse better than the rest of them. Strategic defaulters, bailed out bankers, corrupt politicians, joe bloggs with lack of financial planning, political parties that reward recklessness with additional mortgage TRS.

FYP

daltonmd

kegzmc wrote: »

I think we are wandering off the question here.

Can the bank pursue a house in my wifes name if I fail to meet mortgage repayments on a property in Ireland?

Did you already buy the house with your wife? If you change it after you the fact, then the bank can trace the change and state that it was done to decieve them.

In that event yes they can as they will see that you were on the house initially.

kegzmc

daltonmd wrote: »

Did you already buy the house with your wife? If you change it after you the fact, then the bank can trace the change and state that it was done to decieve them.

In that event yes they can as they will see that you were on the house initially.

No not yet. Mortgage approved for 50% of purchase price.

donalg1

kegzmc wrote: »

No not yet. Mortgage approved for 50% of purchase price.

Where are you going to get the other 50% from.

curlzy

Oh the sanctimonious wailing :rolleyes:. Don't mind them OP, they'd soon get off their soapbox if it was them and they'd do the same as you.

The public didn't start this recession, the builders, banks and lack of regulation did. You can't blame the public for believing the hype about "the property ladder" that was rammed down everyone's throat morning, noon and night. Place your anger where it belongs; with the banks, builders and politicians.

I'd love to be able to answer your questions OP but I'd only be guessing, get legal advise to be on the safe side I'd say.

All the best, to you and your family.

kegzmc

curlzy wrote: »

Oh the sanctimonious wailing :rolleyes:. Don't mind them OP, they'd soon get off their soapbox if it was them and they'd do the same as you.

The public didn't start this recession, the builders, banks and lack of regulation did. You can't blame the public for believing the hype about "the property ladder" that was rammed down everyone's throat morning, noon and night. Place your anger where it belongs; with the banks, builders and politicians.

I'd love to be able to answer your questions OP but I'd only be guessing, get legal advise to be on the safe side I'd say.

All the best, to you and your family.

Thank you very much. Why should I deny my kids a better life trying to pay off a mortgage on a house I'll never return to?

Pat Mustard

seamus wrote: »

Probably, yes. For legal purposes yourself and your wife are generally considered to be a single entity unless either party can show that the debts were incurred without the other spouse's knowledge.

That is a very broad statement and I don't think it's correct in this case.

However, if the OP has contributed to the house abroad, then one would wonder how the relevant court in the particular foreign country would view the OP's contribution to the house.

OP, have you considered bankruptcy in the UK?

donalg1

curlzy wrote: »

Oh the sanctimonious wailing :rolleyes:. Don't mind them OP, they'd soon get off their soapbox if it was them and they'd do the same as you.

The public didn't start this recession, the builders, banks and lack of regulation did. You can't blame the public for believing the hype about "the property ladder" that was rammed down everyone's throat morning, noon and night. Place your anger where it belongs; with the banks, builders and politicians.

I'd love to be able to answer your questions OP but I'd only be guessing, get legal advise to be on the safe side I'd say.

All the best, to you and your family.

Course you can blame the public, I am a member of the public and didnt borrow more than I could repay, I certainly didnt buy a second home either.

If people believed the "hype" well thats their own fault, gotta love the way people who never had any intention of owning a second home went out and bought one because "everyone else was doing it" and now moan that its not fair that someone didnt tell them not to do it.

People got greedy it didnt work out and now its everyone elses fault but their own. They made their bed so maybe they should lie in it rather than ask others who were sensible to lie in it for them.

donalg1

kegzmc wrote: »

Thank you very much. Why should I deny my kids a better life trying to pay off a mortgage on a house I'll never return to?

Because you took out the mortgage maybe.

kegzmc

donalg1 wrote: »

Because you took out the mortgage maybe.

LOL. I walked into that one! Well spotted

jsd1004

donalg1 wrote: »

Its pretty understandable why people would be annoyed by this, you took out a mortgage on a second property (borrowed recklessly obviously) now that it hasnt worked out you have decided that the mortgage is too big so your not paying it, instead you are going to ask others to pay it for you while you take out a smaller mortgage elsewhere and live comfortably leaving those that are paying your other mortgage here struggle on for a bit more.:mad:

How is this different to people not paying the household charge, television licence, vat bills, welfare scroungers, this country is a banana republic and as far as i can see if you dont look after yourself the country wont look after you.

Pat Mustard

donalg1 wrote: »

They made their bed so maybe they should lie in it rather than ask others who were sensible to lie in it for them.

People who apply for bankruptcy in the UK can be discharged from bankruptcy and their debts in 12 months.

Irish people have gone to the UK and have succeeded in this.

There is no need to carry an unsustainable burden of debt in all cases. When someone comes out of bankruptcy (after 12 months in the UK), the debt is gone.

Zamboni

kegzmc wrote: »

Why should I deny my kids a better life trying to pay off a mortgage on a house I'll never return to?

Seeing as you've asked...
You willfully entered into contracts and are attempting to abdicate responsibility for the completion of that contract to the tax paying citizens of Ireland.
You are setting a terrible example to your children by your lack of good citizenship, honesty, integrity and trustworthiness.
If that is part of the better life you envisage for your children then fair enough.

donalg1

The Mustard wrote: »

People who apply for bankruptcy in the UK can be discharged from bankruptcy and their debts in 12 months.

Irish people have gone to the UK and have succeeded in this.

There is no need to carry an unsustainable burden of debt in all cases. When someone comes out of bankruptcy (after 12 months in the UK), the debt is gone.

The OP took out the mortgage so the OP should pay his mortgage, its very simple really, and before you say he cant afford it, he is taking out another mortgage in another country leaving the rest of us to pick up his bill.

donalg1

jsd1004 wrote: »

How is this different to people not paying the household charge, television licence, vat bills, welfare scroungers, this country is a banana republic and as far as i can see if you dont look after yourself the country wont look after you.

There is a bit of a difference between a mortgage and the household charge now in fairness. Why should eveyone else pay for his mistakes and greed.

curlzy

donalg1 wrote: »

Course you can blame the public, I am a member of the public and didnt borrow more than I could repay, I certainly didnt buy a second home either.

If people believed the "hype" well thats their own fault, gotta love the way people who never had any intention of owning a second home went out and bought one because "everyone else was doing it" and now moan that its not fair that someone didnt tell them not to do it.

People got greedy it didnt work out and now its everyone elses fault but their own. They made their bed so maybe they should lie in it rather than ask others who were sensible to lie in it for them.

I'm a member of the public too. I've a great job, excellent salary, I don't have a mortgage or kids so I'm sitting pretty as they say. Yeah my taxes blah blah blah but I STILL don't blame the people that are in the sh*ts now. They weren't greedy, people have very very very short memories.

We were lambasted with "property ladder", "second property to rent" morning, noon and night by people we should have been able to trust. The failings of our financial institutions and politicians are laughable and ridiculous, no lay person could be expected to foresee what was going to happen. Greed doesn't come into this. I don't blame anyone that's doing what the OP is doing, he's not some millionaire property developer, he's a dad that's trying to look after his kids.

I'm really tired of people blaming the innocent in this. It's easy to rant at Joe Public, much harder (but better) to put the blame where it belongs.

fasttalkerchat

They could force you into bankruptcy probably.

Motorist

Zamboni wrote: »

Seeing as you've asked...
You willfully entered into contracts and are attempting to abdicate responsibility for the completion of that contract to the tax paying citizens of Ireland.
You are setting a terrible example to your children by your lack of good citizenship, honesty, integrity and trustworthiness.
If that is part of the better life you envisage for your children then fair enough.

By continuing to pay the mortgage which the bank wrecklessly approved you for, you are setting a terrible example for your kids. In fact, you may as well get the word MUG tattooed across your forehead.

daltonmd

The Mustard wrote: »

People who apply for bankruptcy in the UK can be discharged from bankruptcy and their debts in 12 months.

Irish people have gone to the UK and have succeeded in this.

There is no need to carry an unsustainable burden of debt in all cases. When someone comes out of bankruptcy (after 12 months in the UK), the debt is gone.

But he's not bankrupt. He can afford to repay the mortgaes and he is even buying another house, he'll never qualify and I doubt he really wants to go that far.

daltonmd

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

They could force you into bankruptcy probably.

Not if he can pay, is working in another country and even able to purchase another home with a 50% deposit - it may be a less expensive house, but the banks could rightfully see that as their money.

Pat Mustard

donalg1 wrote: »

The OP took out the mortgage so the OP should pay his mortgage, its very simple really, and before you say he cant afford it, he is taking out another mortgage in another country leaving the rest of us to pick up his bill.

The OP has decided to leave the debt (and the property) behind. What we say amongst ourselves is academic.

jsd1004

donalg1 wrote: »

There is a bit of a difference between a mortgage and the household charge now in fairness. Why should eveyone else pay for his mistakes and greed.

We are paying because a mistake was made to guarantee the banks by a corrupt government.

Pat Mustard

daltonmd wrote: »

But he's not bankrupt. He can afford to repay the mortgaes and he is even buying another house, he'll never qualify and I doubt he really wants to go that far.

I know he's not bankrupt.

He can make an application to become bankrupt.

Bankruptcy is a release from debt (where it is done properly).

donalg1

curlzy wrote: »

I'm a member of the public too. I've a great job, excellent salary, I don't have a mortgage or kids so I'm sitting pretty as they say. Yeah my taxes blah blah blah but I STILL don't blame the people that are in the sh*ts now. They weren't greedy, people have very very very short memories.

We were lambasted with "property ladder", "second property to rent" morning, noon and night by people we should have been able to trust. The failings of our financial institutions and politicians are laughable and ridiculous, no lay person could be expected to foresee what was going to happen. Greed doesn't come into this. I don't blame anyone that's doing what the OP is doing, he's not some millionaire property developer, he's a dad that's trying to look after his kids.

I'm really tired of people blaming the innocent in this. It's easy to rant at Joe Public, much harder (but better) to put the blame where it belongs.

Oh sorry I didnt realize he was forced to buy the second property. A dad trying to look after his kids is he, well how many kids does the man have that he needed a second home to house them in?

He decided to buy the second home not some millionaire property developer, so he should be the one to live with the consequences and not just walk away from them.

I must have been one of the lucky ones that wasnt forced into a bank and made take out a second mortgage that I couldnt afford, maybe I was sick that day.

donalg1

jsd1004 wrote: »

We are paying because a mistake was made to guarantee the banks by a corrupt government.

We are paying because people borrowed money they could never repay and now are just walking away from their responsibilities, the bailout was as a result of the greed of a nation be it a property developer or a person who decided they wanted a piece of the action and so bought a second home despite the fact they couldnt afford it, never wanted one before and had no actual need for it.

Pat Mustard

jsd1004 wrote: »

We are paying because a mistake was made to guarantee the banks by a corrupt government.

Hanlon's Razor states: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

Stupidity rather than corruption imo.

seamus

The Mustard wrote: »

I know he's not bankrupt.

He can make an application to become bankrupt.

Bankruptcy is a release from debt (where it is done properly).

Bankruptcy would require him to show that he has insufficient means to service both his family's needs and his debts. This doesn't appear to be the case. The OP in this case is considering not paying one of his debts because he finds it inconvenient, not because he can't afford it.

djimi

curlzy wrote: »

I'm a member of the public too. I've a great job, excellent salary, I don't have a mortgage or kids so I'm sitting pretty as they say. Yeah my taxes blah blah blah but I STILL don't blame the people that are in the sh*ts now. They weren't greedy, people have very very very short memories.

We were lambasted with "property ladder", "second property to rent" morning, noon and night by people we should have been able to trust. The failings of our financial institutions and politicians are laughable and ridiculous, no lay person could be expected to foresee what was going to happen. Greed doesn't come into this. I don't blame anyone that's doing what the OP is doing, he's not some millionaire property developer, he's a dad that's trying to look after his kids.

I'm really tired of people blaming the innocent in this. It's easy to rant at Joe Public, much harder (but better) to put the blame where it belongs.

To the best of my knowledge no bank has ever sat anyone down at gunpoint and forced them to take out a mortgage. Blame the banks all you want; end of the day it was the general public who took out huge mortgages and landed themselves in debt that would cripple them if the slightest thing went wrong. Dont get me wrong, I have sympathy for anyone who is stuck in a bad situation because of what has happened these past few years, but anyone who didnt stop for a second and think what might happen if they take out a 100% mortgage in a property market that was almost guaranteed to implode at some point only has themselves to blame for their predicament.

OldNotWIse

Why not just sell them, put whatever you get off the mortgages, and then tackle the combined "leftover" debt after they are sold?

It's unfortunate that you have gone into negative equity but if the houses had gone up in value and you sold them and made a huge profit, would you be happy to give some of that profit to the state?

I dont go into the bookies and put money on a horse, and demand my initial stake back if he falls and breaks a leg. A gamble is a gamble, but so may people seem to think they should be allowed to gamble but still retain some kind of protection if the gamble fails.