Banned from Soccer

Sean Bateman

I was banned from the Soccer forum last night.

Frisbee is the moderator in questianther the alleged offence is trolling.

No trolling took place and to be honest I'm disgusted at Frisbee's behaviour. He / She appeared to be gloating in the thread after instigating the ban.

I've just returned from a 6 month ban (which was actually up during April). Naturally I learned a lesson and was "minding my Ps & Qs". I was not trolling. Just 'cause an angry mob don't agree with you, it does't mean that you're trolling. We're smack bang in the middle of the summer when you sign players...when and where else should we discuss players who should be sold and players who should be signed? I didn't even focus on De Gea - It was as much about other players.

What about the "back seat modding"?

I have done nothing wrong - This isn't even grey. Meanwhile we've a clique telling mods what to do and mods behaving badly.

I should not have been banned and I am formally requesting an objective review of the "offending posts". There was no trolling and there was nothing untoward. I was friendly and logical.

Thanks

Sean

Black Swan

Sean Bateman wrote: »

I was banned from the Soccer forum last night.

Frisbee is the moderator in questianther the alleged offence is trolling.

Please be advised that the 1st step in the DRP procedures (see DRP chart) is to PM the moderator. If you have not done this yet, please do. Many appeals are resolved at this 1st stage.

If you have exchanged PM's with the moderator, and were unable to resolve your appeal at this 1st DRP stage, then please forward copies of that PM exchange to me by PM for review. Please do not post those PMs here unless asked.

Sean Bateman

Black Swan wrote: »

Sean Bateman wrote: »

I was banned from the Soccer forum last night.

Frisbee is the moderator in questianther the alleged offence is trolling.

Please be advised that the 1st step in the DRP procedures (see DRP chart) is to PM the moderator. If you have not done this yet, please do. Many appeals are resolved at this 1st stage.

If you have exchanged PM's with the moderator, and were unable to resolve your appeal at this 1st DRP stage, then please forward copies of that PM exchange to me by PM for review. Please do not post those PMs here unless asked.

Will do...thanks.

Black Swan

This DRP had not been resolved in the "Send PM to Mod" first stage, consequently a Sports Cmod review will be conducted. Please be patient, as we are volunteers with other commitments.

Black Swan

Please be advised that I have reviewed boards.ie records, PMs, Soccer Charter, DRP content (here), and received input from several Soccer mods. I have thought about this DRP several times over the past few days, perhaps too long some might say, hence the delay.

SUMMARY POINTS:

1. 6-months ban from Soccer 30 October 2011 issued by moderator x PyRo. Warning to Sean Bateman: “The accumulation of no fewer than 11 yellow cards in the space of 6 months. If you continue that sort of nonsense when you return the ban will be swiftly upgraded to permanent.”
2. Automatic ban lift (“unbanning”) by system 27 April 2012.
3. Red card infraction in Soccer 18 June 2012 issued by moderator Frisbee for Breach of Forum Charter: Trolling.
4. Moderator Frisbee had reviewed the earlier x PyRo warning that came with the 6-month ban (above), then the Sean Bateman warning, infraction, and ban history (see below). Mod Frisbee decided to enforce the “or” clause in the forum Charter (underlined below).
5. Permanent ban from Soccer 18 June 2012 issued by Frisbee for Breach of Forum Charter: Policies on Bans and Infractions: 4. “Any user receiving a single red card infraction within 6 months of unbanning from a season long ban, will be banned for the entire season (running August - July) or 6 months, which ever is longer, or, at the moderators discretion may be permanently removed from the forum.”

WARNING, INFRACTION, AND BAN HISTORY:
(All but 2 of these below actions occurred in the Sports Category per Modutils beginning 10 August 2010)

• Yellows = 12 (11 in Soccer)
• Reds = 4 (1 in Soccer)
• Bans = 6 (3 in Soccer including this permaban)
• Number of boards.ie actioning mods = 13

Such a history does not speak well for Sean Bateman in the Soccer forum, or the Sports Category, and represents an unnecessary waste of time by no less than 13 mods.

In essence, the permanent ban justification rides upon one red card issued 18 June 2012 that occurred in less than 6 months after being unbanned. The charter is very clear on this issue. If the red card is not reversed, or reduced to a yellow, Sean Bateman is permanently banned.

So the ultimate questions for this DRP are: Was Sean Bateman trolling, and if he was trolling, did he deserve a yellow warning, or a red infraction?

The red carded "I'm back..." Sean Bateman post was met with a flurry of posts on a thread that was rather quiet and on-topic before his arrival. Without doubt, Sean Bateman's post stirred up the thread, but was that the result of Bateman trolling other members, or some other reason? It's really hard to second guess an experienced mod like Frisbee, who wrote the Soccer charter, and who has contributed years of dedicated service modding Soccer.

I was considering some middle ground, reducing the ban length, and asking Sean Bateman to be a bit more conservative in his posting style upon his return to Soccer. Then I read a PM from Sean Bateman to Frisbee regarding this red card and permanent ban, which was personally abusive to the moderator, and exemplified the trolling attitude claimed by Frisbee:

Sean Bateman wrote:

Calling that "trolling" is incredible to be honest. You're just pandering to the idiots that think they own the MUFC forum...

A joke of a decision.

Hopefully sense will break out, either personally for you or further up the chain.

Such offensive comments, whether they were made by PM or in post with regard to this DRP issue, at the least, were not an exercise of good judgement by Sean Bateman if he was attempting a positive resolution to this DRP; and at the worst, would violate the spirit and intent of the Soccer charter, the DRP charter, and many of the charters found in boards.ie.

Without such offensive PM comments, this DRP could have been resolved in the 1st "PM the mod" stage, perhaps to the satisfaction of all parties concerned.

SPORTS CMOD DECISION:

The Sports Cmod review of this DRP has been completed. I could not find compelling evidence to overturn the Permanent Ban from Soccer, therefore it stands.

You have 2 options at this point: (1) You may decide to close this DRP, learn from it, and move on; or (2) you may request an Admin review. Please advise us of your choice.

Sean Bateman

Hi Black Swan

I am shocked and appalled at your decision.

My understanding is that this is an independent and objective process. Your analysis as set out above suggests that it is not. Your starting point appears to be "How can I back this moderator up?" rather than "Is this fair?". It's as if you've spent the time thinking "Jesus, he shouldn't have been banned...what argument can I construct to back Frisbee up?"

If the ban wasn't justified (which it clearly wasn't based on your dilemma as set out above and the subsequent posts supporting me in the thread), then the PM to Frisbee was justified. Hoping sense will break out in relation to an injustice isn't unreasonable. Its also been pointed out by many other contributors that there's a clique in the MUFC forum. Many posters are afraid to contribute becuase moderators like Frisbee appear to favour certain posters. I would also dispute Frisbee's version of events vis a vis considering my past history. The post in question was reported by another poster (a member of said clique) and Frisbee then acted upon it by "getting rid of me" as was his wish. You make the thought process sound almost noble - There's no way that it was. I also note that you have also selectively quoted from the PM in question - What about the balance of it setting out some of my arguments re non trolling? This moderator has behaved disgracefully - An unjustified ban, a gloating contribution to the thread post ban and general pandering to "the mob". This hasn't just been pointed out by me.

I also note your comments regarding the potential for this to be resolved by PM - Again, I'm of the view that this is spin designed to skew the position towards me somehow dragging out this process and wasting time. This was never going to be resolved by PM. My PM could not have stopped something that was never going to happen.

Justice has not been done - You're basically saying "You didn't commit the crime that you were accused of. A life sentence wasnt justified. However you complained about the injustice too vociferously (in private?!) so therefore I'm imposing a life ban". Logically, if the ban itself was unjust (which it was), then any correspondence or discussion around it must be viewed in that context. Someone falsely accused of murder doesn't get done on a contempt of court charge when it becomes apparent that they didn't kill anyone.

In my view this process has been neither objective nor fair - It has all the hallmarks of reverse engineering. I am however emboldened and thankful for the posts and PMs that I've received over the last week from various contributors.

Whatever the next step of the process is, I'm requesting it.

Regards

Sean

Khannie

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Whatever the next step of the process is, I'm requesting it.

That would be admin review. I'll take this one. I'll get back to you in the next day or so.

Khannie

OK, this one is fairly straightforward. It hinges on whether the red is justified or not. In the event that it's justified, there is no argument about the permaban as that is clearly moderator discretion.

You were banned for trolling that thread and your first post back in the forum was trolling. Do I think you were trolling that thread? No question. You were definitely trying to get a rise out of people IMO.

So the red stands.

That means the ban stands.

Your attack on Black Swan, given the amount of effort that was put in to this DRP (which I have seen behind the scenes) was way over the top and entirely unfounded.

That's it really. This one is resolved.