Aero Helmets (knob hats :D)

Daz1214

just curious on peoples views here...i ride a tt bike in races but wear a standard road lid, is it worth investing in an aero lid, do they make a difference really?

tunney

Daz1214 wrote: »

just curious on peoples views here...i ride a tt bike in races but wear a standard road lid, is it worth investing in an aero lid, do they make a difference really?

Yes, very much so.

Daz1214

thanks tunney, brief and to the point

Fazz

Think it was proven around 40seconds per 40k bike.
long as you aren't staring down at your computer and effectively putting the brakes on!
So more than an aero wheel set, for about 10% of price (or less).

Easiest gain to make on the bike for relatively little outlay.

Aerodynamics count.
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=2180

ray o

I've been thinking about making a purchase myself....so the next question is which helmet and why?

I seen decent reviews of the Garneau Vortice and Kask Crono and both are stocked in B2R. Would be interested in others opinions before buying. I like these two helmets because they are supposed to avoid the problem Fazz mentioned...looking down causing the tail to come up. These two helmets both have a tail design that helps to avoid that.

tunney

ray o wrote: »

I've been thinking about making a purchase myself....so the next question is which helmet and why?

I seen decent reviews of the Garneau Vortice and Kask Crono and both are stocked in B2R. Would be interested in others opinions before buying.

Consider head size too. My head is 60cm circumfurence and that means most helmet types are out.

Giro are a large fit but the Advantage has a design problem with the ears which means you won't be able to use them in certain german races.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Yes there are time benefits with an aero helmet however on a very warm IM distance bike there is less ventilation in most aero helmets so when does the time/overheating trade off come into play?
I am undecided if i am going to use a road or tt helmet in Roth so bringing both.

tunney

ray o wrote: »

I've been thinking about making a purchase myself....so the next question is which helmet and why?

I seen decent reviews of the Garneau Vortice and Kask Crono and both are stocked in B2R. Would be interested in others opinions before buying. I like these two helmets because they are supposed to avoid the problem Fazz mentioned...looking down causing the tail to come up. These two helmets both have a tail design that helps to avoid that.

Looking down isn't always slower. The amount of conflicting research and articles...... Slap one one, mash it, go faster........

tunney

Arabella White Racism wrote: »

Yes there are time benefits with an aero helmet however on a very warm IM distance bike there is less ventilation in most aero helmets so when does the time/overheating trade off come into play?
I am undecided if i am going to use a road or tt helmet in Roth so bringing both.

Air is generally cooler at lower altitudes.............

shotgunmcos

Arabella White Racism wrote: »

Yes there are time benefits with an aero helmet however on a very warm IM distance bike there is less ventilation in most aero helmets so when does the time/overheating trade off come into play?
I am undecided if i am going to use a road or tt helmet in Roth so bringing both.

Chrissie wore a normal helmet breaking the record there last year...

Daz1214

looking at the spuik kronos myself

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

tunney wrote: »

Air is generally cooler at lower altitudes.............

Yes that is an advantage:) seriously there has to be some trade of. Regulating your body temp and in particular your noggin is very important when racing in very warm temperatures. I know my own (Garneau) is like putting a lagging jacket around a boiler.

Fazz

Arabella White Racism wrote: »

Yes there are time benefits with an aero helmet however on a very warm IM distance bike there is less ventilation in most aero helmets so when does the time/overheating trade off come into play?
I am undecided if i am going to use a road or tt helmet in Roth so bringing both.

You mad?

No brainer, especially for ironman!

I did Abu Dhabi in 38 degrees and no overheating issues.
Take care of your hydration and wear the aero lid for free speed.

If Crowie saw the light in Kona and did a pb bike split that should be enough for you


As to types of aero lids, go with fit and personal choice.
There are reviews saying longer tails are actually better, but that was compared to those that left a gap between upper back I think.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

What tt lid you using Ian.

catweazle

tunney wrote: »

Giro are a large fit but the Advantage has a design problem with the ears which means you won't be able to use them in certain german races.

Is that the cracks that develop just over the ear area on either side - two nice fissures on my one at either side (although I wont be racing in Germany any time soon at least)

elvis jones

tunney wrote: »

Consider head size too. My head is 60cm circumfurence and that means most helmet types are out.

Giro are a large fit but the Advantage has a design problem with the ears which means you won't be able to use them in certain german races.

You have a big head................never;)

Fazz

Arabella White Racism wrote: »

Yes there are time benefits with an aero helmet however on a very warm IM distance bike there is less ventilation in most aero helmets so when does the time/overheating trade off come into play?
I am undecided if i am going to use a road or tt helmet in Roth so bringing both.

Arabella White Racism wrote: »

What tt lid you using Ian.

Spiuk Kronos.

Got it as a present and didn't even look into alternatives.
As it turns out; it has faired well in comparison reviews.
Quite light and fits my head so win for me.

Not a fan of the visor ones - heard of some issues with fogging up in some cases as happens the sunglasses. At least the sunglasses can be moved when that happens.

Oh, just make sure it matches you're bike/gear alright???

Daz1214

thats where the spuik kronos fits my requirements, its black, red and white which just happens to match my bike just nicely

pgibbo

Anyone have any info on the KASK ones (like Wiggo uses) or one of that style? I could do with getting a helmet.

d4r3n

The Kask the Sky lads use (Crono Bambino) isn't being released until after the Olympics, going to be pretty pricey at £300 ish too

bryangiggsy

catweazle wrote: »

tunney wrote: »

Giro are a large fit but the Advantage has a design problem with the ears which means you won't be able to use them in certain german races.

Is that the cracks that develop just over the ear area on either side - two nice fissures on my one at either side (although I wont be racing in Germany any time soon at least)

Do elaborate dave..i too have a crack over one ear covered by race no and am racing in germany in two weeks time!!!!

catweazle

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Do elaborate dave..i too have a crack over one ear covered by race no and am racing in germany in two weeks time!!!!

From Shotguns log last year in Roth

I was in great spirits until a Marshall refused to allow me enter transition due to a tiny 0.5cm tear in the plastic on my Giro helmet. It was the part where you pull over your ears. I protested that the helmet was practically new and the integrity of it was good. However he spouted some German cycling law and drew the line. I was allowed to check my bike in but had to get another helmet and it would be further spot checked in the morning. My spirits took a blow but the Marshall perked me up by A) showing me the dozens of Giro helmets already marked on a list and how the helmet was unsuitable for IM (in his IM experience) as your head just heats up in it

longshank

catweazle wrote: »

From Shotguns log last year in Roth

I was in great spirits until a Marshall refused to allow me enter transition due to a tiny 0.5cm tear in the plastic on my Giro helmet. It was the part where you pull over your ears. I protested that the helmet was practically new and the integrity of it was good. However he spouted some German cycling law and drew the line. I was allowed to check my bike in but had to get another helmet and it would be further spot checked in the morning. My spirits took a blow but the Marshall perked me up by A) showing me the dozens of Giro helmets already marked on a list and how the helmet was unsuitable for IM (in his IM experience) as your head just heats up in it

is it only in Roth this is a problem?

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Do elaborate dave..i too have a crack over one ear covered by race no and am racing in germany in two weeks time!!!!

longshank wrote: »

is it only in Roth this is a problem?

Same helmet in Frankfurt and no problems. Not used since so cracks were there too.

shotgunmcos

longshank wrote: »

is it only in Roth this is a problem?

Could have been some ploy too to get a bunch of folk to buy new helmets, who knows. What is a twat hat worth over 180km anyway?

El Director

The new Giro Helmet may be of interest to some here.

tunney

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Could have been some ploy too to get a bunch of folk to buy new helmets, who knows. What is a twat hat worth over 180km anyway?

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/aero/aerodynamics.htm

47 seconds over 40km so close to 4 minutes..........

tunney

More recent stuff
http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Tech_Talk__Can_You_Buy_Speed_.htm

1.5minutes over 40km (depending on model, probably a better one than the bell)
So over 6 minutes

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Guess i will have to deal with my head being warmer then. That sort of advantage is too big to be giving up.

peter kern

its certainly a brainer on an hot Ironman day
saving 3,5 min on the bike risking 20 min loss on the run......
one certainly needs to think about that (not saying one should not use it as this depends on the person .( a 50 kg female way less likely to have issues than a 95 kg guy )

the other thing is unless you have been to a wind tunnel it pretty much pointless reading reviews of aero helmet as the aeroness of an helmet is affected by so many aspects.

MrCreosote

peter kern wrote: »

its certainly a brainer on an hot Ironman day
saving 3,5 min on the bike risking 20 min loss on the run......
one certainly needs to think about that (not saying one should not use it as this depends on the person .( a 50 kg female way less likely to have issues than a 95 kg guy )

I'm not sure the aero helmet is the cause of the 20 min loss. I wouldn't mind seeing some (cough) sports science to back that up. The whole 30% heat loss from the head is baloney anyway, so if someone is really worried they could just expose more skin elsewhere- the old speedos and crop-top combo??

The reason people blow up in hot ironmans is either because they're not acclimatised to the heat, or they don't adjust their power/HR/time (or both) to the conditions. Not because of what's on their noggin.

Good point about the wind tunnel though- my own tendency to look at the scenery probably makes an aero helmet a hindrance. Hard to test that in a wind tunnel...

peter kern

no, you do not want to expose more skin .....
the other way round.
burned skin heats up
sun screem prevents sweating.
cover and cool down with water

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

its certainly a brainer on an hot Ironman day
saving 3,5 min on the bike risking 20 min loss on the run......
one certainly needs to think about that (not saying one should not use it as this depends on the person .( a 50 kg female way less likely to have issues than a 95 kg guy )

the other thing is unless you have been to a wind tunnel it pretty much pointless reading reviews of aero helmet as the aeroness of an helmet is affected by so many aspects.

A good point by the Jolly German.

peter kern

and you forget most working people dodtn have the time for acclimatization work till thursday fly out friday race sunday.......
thats the reality.

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

no, you do not want to expose more skin .....
the other way round.
burned skin heats up
sun screem prevents sweating.
cover and cool down with water

So so true. Friend from Oz hammered this home a few years back "sunburn is something that the body has to recover from. if you get burnt on the bike you are recovering on the run"

mloc123

tunney wrote: »

A good point by the Jolly German.

He is our very own Brett Sutton

MrCreosote

peter kern wrote: »

and you forget most working people dodtn have the time for acclimatization work till thursday fly out friday race sunday.......
thats the reality.

Fair enough, but they should adjust their targets to the conditions.

Same with skin- the more you expose the better, not burning obviously. Tan up beforehand. If you have to cover up, then you won't sweat as well and again you have to adjust the targets. Even the best wicking clothes is not as good as skin to air.

tunney

MrCreosote wrote: »

Same with skin- the more you expose the better, not burning obviously. Tan up beforehand. If you have to cover up, then you won't sweat as well and again you have to adjust the targets. Even the best wicking clothes is not as good as skin to air.

IMHO very very wrong. Cover up, suncream will not work in 37 degree heat on a 5-6 hour bike. Gone after 1 hour best case, gone after the swim in all honesty.

MrCreosote

tunney wrote: »

IMHO very very wrong. Cover up, suncream will not work in 37 degree heat on a 5-6 hour bike. Gone after 1 hour best case, gone after the swim in all honesty.

I never said suncream. Get a tan. If someone can't do that and has to cover up they will heat up quicker. That's better than burning, (and probably better for your health than tanning,) but not as good for heat loss

tunney

MrCreosote wrote: »

I never said suncream. Get a tan. If someone can't do that and has to cover up they will heat up quicker. That's better than burning, (and probably better for your health than tanning,) but not as good for heat loss

Wonder does it work like Beetlejuice....

Jolly German, Jolly German, Jolly German!

peter kern

with BTH we have the ideal test person ;-)

Bambaata

mloc123 wrote: »

He is our very own Brett Sutton

yeah i dont always understand whats he's saying either

Bambaata

peter kern wrote: »

with BTH we have the ideal test person ;-)

we should also test sunblocks on him. See which works and more importantly which doesnt. You're up for this BTH right?

mloc123

Don't some of pros wear white baselayers/arm shields now to prevent burning?

Bambaata

Yeah and they keep soaking them to keep themselves cool.

BTH

peter kern wrote: »

with BTH we have the ideal test person ;-)

Bambaata wrote: »

we should also test sunblocks on him. See which works and more importantly which doesnt. You're up for this BTH right?

I am not your guinea pig. :mad:

Anyway, I find a simple factor 15/20 to be more than adequate for most days. Although I've never done an Ironman. Nor a HIM on a good day. In fact I've very seldom raced on sunny days. Eh, the Saturday in Athy this year was a sunny day and a little factor 15 and I was grand.

As for getting a tan before doing an ironman on the continent, I had to laugh at that!! I'd look well with a tan alright :cool:

tunney

BetterThanHoyte wrote: »

I am not your guinea pig. :mad:

Anyway, I find a simple factor 15/20 to be more than adequate for most days. Although I've never done an Ironman. Nor a HIM on a good day. In fact I've very seldom raced on sunny days. Eh, the Saturday in Athy this year was a sunny day and a little factor 15 and I was grand.

As for getting a tan before doing an ironman on the continent, I had to laugh at that!! I'd look well with a tan alright :cool:

Nothing beats an opinion formed with a solid lack of experience.

Bambaata

You could try out the fake tan creams just to acclimatise ;-)

BTH

tunney wrote: »

Nothing beats an opinion formed with a solid lack of experience.

You are obviously referring to the fact that I've never had a tan so clearly can't know whether I'd look good or not

peter kern

Bambaata wrote: »

Yeah and they keep soaking them to keep themselves cool.

a revival of the very very old trick to put a wet sock around a water bottle ;-)

bryangiggsy

tunney wrote: »

IMHO very very wrong. Cover up, suncream will not work in 37 degree heat on a 5-6 hour bike. Gone after 1 hour best case, gone after the swim in all honesty.

Would disagree. p20 has got me through both ironmans unburned. Applied liberally before swim nd splashed on shoulders in t2,..now admittedly there was a wee bit of cloud cover at different pts of each day but mainly sunshine