Dublin Bus : driver's awareness of bikes

foret

After one close incident with a dublin bus instead of blowing a casket I
actually reported the driver to dublin bus.

They responded with the theme of "we take bike lanes very seriously" and a generic statement of policy and how they would investigate.

That was 2 months ago and since then nothing, nada ,zilch.

My question is as i attempt to get a genuine response ; who else should i copy my next letter to; the gardai , bike campaigners ?

I fully support and use bus transport but am finding more aggressive bus driving in the city centre.

Thanks for any advice.

Hermy

Did you go into head office and fill out a form?

cipo

Definitely agree...

Most bus drivers are great but I have had a few run-ins... I'd see myself as quite a responsible cyclist and try to advocate good practice by all bike users but I also have no idea how more aren't hurt in collisions given the way they ride in close proximity to double deckers!!

As for complaints to Dublin Bus... I've made two in the last 2years both to do with drivers driving aggressively and trying to intimidate me after me overtaking when it was right to do so...

Got the same "we take complaints seriously" bs response...,
Fobbed off.... I got a call one day in response to a complaint when I was actually riding up Alpe d'Huez!!! ;-)))

Anyway not v helpful seemed like they are just ticking boxes to me!!

Be safe kids... Enjoy your bikes!!

droidus

Go to the guards them contact them looking for the CCTV. They'll take you seriously then.

col.in.Cr

Dublin Bus and Irish Rail are cnuts at giving you the run-around with complaints

Alanstrainor

I've had about 1 run in with a bus in the last year where the driver dangerously overtook just to pull into a bus stop directly I front of me. Otherwise id regard Dublin bus drivers as some of the best drivers out there from a cyclists perspective.

OldNotWIse

On the bus a while ago, sitting on the upper deck and I noticed a young lady hailing the bus between stops. The driver obviously did not stop however a young guy on a bike who witnessed her plight took it upon himself to stall the bus to buy the young lady time to reach the next stop...how did he do this? By cycling in the middle of the road (after giving the driver the finger) in front of the bus really slowly the whole way up Dame street. It was possibly the most ridiculous, stupid thing I have ever witnessed. City Centre roads during rush hour are no place for such silly law-breaking and stupid shows of bravado.

Hermy

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I've had about 1 run in with a bus in the last year where the driver dangerously overtook just to pull into a bus stop directly I front of me. Otherwise id regard Dublin bus drivers as some of the best drivers out there from a cyclists perspective.

After I quit taxiing last year I once again became a regular user of Dublin Buses and I was quite shocked by the poor standards shown by most bus drivers. The good drivers were very much the exception. And as with my experience as a cyclist I was left with the over-riding impression that far too many bus drivers hold cyclists in utter contempt.

Gurgle

Hermy wrote: »

I was left with the over-riding impression that far too many bus drivers hold cyclists in utter contempt.

I don't think its fair to say they are particularly ignorant of cyclists. They seem to resent anyone else attempting to use their roads.

BostonB

I've had mixed experience. Some good some bad.

DirkVoodoo

I can understand private car users being annoyed at being "delayed" by a cyclist and doing the usual ridiculous overtaking while honking horn/giving the finger.

I've never quite got my head around buses and taxis though. I mean, one is paid to drive a fixed route and make regular stops, the other runs a meter that earns MORE money the longer the journey takes.

What is the freaking rush?

I don't know how a dublin bus roster works btw, but if it is a case that bus drivers do need to rush on their routes, maybe the onus is on Dublin Bus to make sure that there is no such pressure on drivers for both their own well being and that of the public's.

Hermy

Gurgle wrote: »

I don't think its fair to say they are particularly ignorant of cyclists. They seem to resent anyone else attempting to use their roads.

Well that's true. When I was a taxi driver they had just as much contempt for me as at any other time I used the bus lanes.:p

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I've never quite got my head around buses and taxis though. I mean, one is paid to drive a fixed route and make regular stops, the other runs a meter that earns MORE money the longer the journey takes.

Although I don't condone it, I can understand taxis engaged in a fare speeding to a red light cause then they might get to charge additional waiting time but why a bus needs to do likewise is beyond me.

Jawgap

OldNotWIse wrote: »

On the bus a while ago, sitting on the upper deck and I noticed a young lady hailing the bus between stops. The driver obviously did not stop however a young guy on a bike who witnessed her plight took it upon himself to stall the bus to buy the young lady time to reach the next stop...how did he do this? By cycling in the middle of the road (after giving the driver the finger) in front of the bus really slowly the whole way up Dame street. It was possibly the most ridiculous, stupid thing I have ever witnessed. City Centre roads during rush hour are no place for such silly law-breaking and stupid shows of bravado.

It's impossible to evaluate this statement without knowing hot / fit the girl was:D

But you'd have to wonder at yer man - I'd imagine in Dame Street you wouldn't have to wait too long for the next bus.

Generally, I find Dublin Bus drivers to be sound, but you're always going to get the odd idiot driver, in the same way you get the odd idiot cyclist.

As for your original query, OP, I reckon the CCTV footage is long gone at this stage so the Guards may not have much interest.

Dublin Bus disciplinary procedures are not transparent, so even if they'll admit to applying them you'll get no indication of what the outcome was and you certainly won't be asked to give evidence or provide a statements. You won't even be told if there was a hearing.

droidus

Not entirely true. I was told after one incident that the driver was 'no longer an employee', and in another incident that he had had a 'talking to', had been interviewed by the Gardai and the complaint had been recorded on his record.

Id suggest contacting the garage involved as well as the admin people there will be more proactive regarding the incident. Contacting head office is a waste of time.

OldNotWIse

Jawgap wrote: »

It's impossible to evaluate this statement without knowing hot / fit the girl was:D

But you'd have to wonder at yer man - I'd imagine in Dame Street you wouldn't have to wait too long for the next bus.

Generally, I find Dublin Bus drivers to be sound, but you're always going to get the odd idiot driver, in the same way you get the odd idiot cyclist.

As for your original query, OP, I reckon the CCTV footage is long gone at this stage so the Guards may not have much interest.

Dublin Bus disciplinary procedures are not transparent, so even if they'll admit to applying them you'll get no indication of what the outcome was and you certainly won't be asked to give evidence or provide a statements. You won't even be told if there was a hearing.

lol good point The stop she missed was about halfway up Dame street (not sure exactly) but then there is a big stretch between that one and the next (which is actually passed Christ Church and down onto Patrick Street) so she had a fair run the poor girl!

jaqian

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I've had about 1 run in with a bus in the last year where the driver dangerously overtook just to pull into a bus stop directly I front of me. Otherwise id regard Dublin bus drivers as some of the best drivers out there from a cyclists perspective.

I find DB safe overall except on Kildare St where they do exactly as you describe above.

Tenzor07

I find DB drivers to be the best out there for making allowances on the roads for cyclists..

Taxi's on the other hand are a whole different thread! :rolleyes:

Squidgy Black

I cycled around central London for a week, I now truly appreciate Dublin Bus and Irish taxis, it's as if hackney cabs are out to hit cyclists over there, and buses make their best attempt to literally squeeze past people.

n-dawg

I would agree with a lot of the comments on how good Dublin bus drivers are... In 8 years of commuting from Cabinteely to town I had 3-4 run ins with DB drivers...(twice it was those bendy buses they ran on the 4 route for a while). In that same time I had ~10 problems with aircoach drivers and something similar with JJ Kavnagh drivers.

I've been living in Glasgow for nearly two years and holy crap the bus drivers are angry, vindictive and dangerous towards cyclists... Its a good week when I only have one incident. I complained once to the company (first) who told me the driver would ring me to apologise... He did ring but just told me to f-in get off the roads and next time he would run me over!!

BostonB

I have seen some really good drivers, giving me loads of space etc. Giving me way etc. Then some morons trying to squeeze me to the curb. In general though I've had little hassle from them. But have to say my route generally has no buses on it.

clopd

Was on my bike Yesterday stopped at the lights between leeson st. And earls fort terrace. Pulled right into the pavement with my wheel leaning against it.
Bus took the corner, Stephens green onto lee son street, and dragged my bike away and I luckily managed to jump away. Then got back on the bike and caught up with the bus further up leeson street.

. Knocked on the drivers side window. He ignored me. Move to the front of the bus to get his attention and as the lights changed he started to drive the bus right into me. Then stopped again eventually opening the window. He denied hitting me, and basically told me to feck off.

I'm not injured, bike is damaged but really pissed at the drivers behaviour.

Any advice?

Gavin

Report the hit and run to the gardai.

Cookie_Monster

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I've had about 1 run in with a bus in the last year where the driver dangerously overtook just to pull into a bus stop directly I front of me. Otherwise id regard Dublin bus drivers as some of the best drivers out there from a cyclists perspective.

have to agree with this, they are for the most part, very good and capable around cyclists and give you plenty of leeway when required. There's always one or two idiots but it's one of the better aspects of DB.

The customer service on the other hand is less than useless. I contacted them after a bus driver dangerously overtook me and a friend, forcing me onto the path by cutting intot he cycle lane. He stopped and my friend got by and was tailgaited through Shankill village up the the roundabout. Gave CS reg, time, fleet number, route number and requested CCTV footage be reviewed, got a reply asking for my number to ring and talk to me about it, sent it and never heard from them again :mad:

Dermot Illogical

clopd wrote: »

Was on my bike Yesterday stopped at the lights between leeson st. And earls fort terrace. Pulled right into the pavement with my wheel leaning against it.
Bus took the corner, Stephens green onto lee son street, and dragged my bike away and I luckily managed to jump away. Then got back on the bike and caught up with the bus further up leeson street.

. Knocked on the drivers side window. He ignored me. Move to the front of the bus to get his attention and as the lights changed he started to drive the bus right into me. Then stopped again eventually opening the window. He denied hitting me, and basically told me to feck off.

I'm not injured, bike is damaged but really pissed at the drivers behaviour.

Any advice?

As Gavin says, it's a hit and run. Report the original incident as such. The second is an assault. Pearse St is the garda station you want in this case. I would advise reporting it in person at the public office, or in writing to the district office. Don't try reporting by phone. It rarely ends well.

Andy-Pandy

You need to report it soon, the tape are changed out on a regular basis. I had a serious run in with a bus a few years ago, and in fairness Dublin Bus where helpful when i rang up to let them know about it.

Also +1 on ringing the guards, it a serious incident.

mrbike

clopd wrote: »

Was on my bike Yesterday stopped at the lights between leeson st. And earls fort terrace. Pulled right into the pavement with my wheel leaning against it.

Hey clopd, I cycle that way every morning. Just to let you know, it is actually illegal for cyclists to use that bus lane. It's a contra flow bus lane, which unfortunately only buses are allowed to use (no taxi's or cyclists).

I regularly see cyclists that are waiting to go straight ahead onto Earls fort Terrace hugging the kerb. When buses turn left, they leave no space (sometimes they even go over the kerb). It's a very dangerous position to put yourself in.
Overall that junction is lethal for cyclists, particularly when turning right from Leeson St onto Stephens Green.

There is no excuse for the bus drivers behaviour, as others have said you should report the bus driver to the Guards for a hit and run.

Dermot Illogical

mrbike wrote: »

Hey clopd, I cycle that way every morning. Just to let you know, it is actually illegal for cyclists to use that bus lane. It's a contra flow bus lane, which unfortunately only buses are allowed to use (no taxi's or cyclists).

I regularly see cyclists that are waiting to go straight ahead onto Earls fort Terrace hugging the kerb. When buses turn left, they leave no space (sometimes they even go over the kerb). It's a very dangerous position to put yourself in.
Overall that junction is lethal for cyclists, particularly when turning right from Leeson St onto Stephens Green.

The above is true. The strategy I use there is to keep left/centre if the following bus is a route which goes straight on, and sit to the right of the lane if it's a route which goes up Leeson St. I just take a little look back as I approach the junction.

Surveyor11

I find them pretty good and aware of cyclists in the city centre, but would always give them right of way if their pulling a move.

Once incident that shook me a few weeks ago was near my house, I was approaching a roundabout going straight through, looked left and noticed a bus, looked right and saw it was clear. Turns out the bus driver ignored me, kept going and almost t-boned me - I had to brake hard to miss him. He did see me OK, cos he gave me a sarcastic wave and smile out his window as he passed in front of me on the roundabout. I reported it to Dublin Bus, who took it seriously, emailed me back and rang me about it.

Hungrycol

I find DB drivers generally good overall, it's the private coach companies and rubble lorries that don't give a s**t.

Dermot Illogical

Surveyor11 wrote: »

I reported it to Dublin Bus, who took it seriously, emailed me back and rang me about it.

This I don't understand. DB will not take any action against the driver.
It's like reporting you to yourself.

Surveyor11

Here's the email I got from Dublin Bus when I emailed:

"Dear Surveyor11,

I wish to acknowledge and thank you for your email.

I have forward your serious complaint regarding the driver on route 37 to the operations manager in Phibsboro Garage and the manager will investigate this complaint and also interview the driver and as soon as possible a manager will be in contact with you regarding this serious complaint.

On behalf of Dublin Bus thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

Regards,

Dublin Bus Customer Services Person"

Looks to me like they took it seriously enough, next time I will report it to the Gardai as well. I'm not looking for anyone to lose their job over it, but if a stern word back at base is enough to sharpen his driving skills, then I'm happy.

NeedMoreGears

I generally encounter DBs on more rural roads and find them to be pretty good. Having said that I has one particular genius DB driver pass me on a small roundabut in Baldoyle by driving straight over the top of it - gave me quite a scare but I didn't get numbers to report it. In the main are normally patient and give me plenty of room.

Jawgap

I think you'll find just how "serious" they took it when you ask what action was taken - they won't tell you.

The interview with the driver will be no more than cursory because anything beyond that would require union involvement and Dublin Bus won't want to go there.

Boulevardier

I absolutely agree that DB needs to be more careful of cyclists, but cyclists also have responsibilities towards buses and their passengers.

The main one of these is not to slow down buses, particularly on bus lanes.

Buses in rush-hour, carrying upwards of 80 passengers, should not have to crawl along bus lanes because cyclists are in front of them.

Where a cyclist is slowing down a bus, he/she should make way for the bus, and stand in off the road if necessary in order for the bus to continue at a reasonable speed.

Jawgap

Boulevardier wrote: »

.......

Where a cyclist is slowing down a bus, he/she should make way for the bus, and stand in off the road if necessary in order for the bus to continue at a reasonable speed.

.....why?

Surveyor11

Boulevardier wrote: »

Where a cyclist is slowing down a bus, he/she should make way for the bus, and stand in off the road if necessary in order for the bus to continue at a reasonable speed.

Why so? A bike has as much right as a bus to use the road, particularly in a shared lane - buses pass me with no issue when they want to. I often leap frog the bus on the way to work - it only hops a few hundred yards between stops.

monkeyslayer

clopd wrote: »

Was on my bike Yesterday stopped at the lights between leeson st. And earls fort terrace. Pulled right into the pavement with my wheel leaning against it.
Bus took the corner, Stephens green onto lee son street, and dragged my bike away and I luckily managed to jump away. Then got back on the bike and caught up with the bus further up leeson street.

. Knocked on the drivers side window. He ignored me. Move to the front of the bus to get his attention and as the lights changed he started to drive the bus right into me. Then stopped again eventually opening the window. He denied hitting me, and basically told me to feck off.

I'm not injured, bike is damaged but really pissed at the drivers behaviour.

Any advice?

Didn't see the icident further down the road but seen you stopping the driver and having it out with him. Fair play for putting yourself in front of him like that and confronting him. Dangerous thing to do. Was wondering what was going on. Did you get his driver id number?

buffalo

Boulevardier wrote: »

I absolutely agree that DB needs to be more careful of cyclists, but cyclists also have responsibilities towards buses and their passengers.

The main one of these is not to slow down buses, particularly on bus lanes.

Buses in rush-hour, carrying upwards of 80 passengers, should not have to crawl along bus lanes because cyclists are in front of them.

Where a cyclist is slowing down a bus, he/she should make way for the bus, and stand in off the road if necessary in order for the bus to continue at a reasonable speed.

And taxis. Sometimes there's three passengers in a taxi, so single cyclists should yield to taxis too. And cars with only one person in them should yield to tandem cyclists.

When I lived in Galway, I would sometimes hop off the road to let Bus Eireann coaches past on the Dublin Road if there was a lot of stopped car traffic in the main lane, because the bus lane is quite narrow, and the coach wasn't going to be stopping anywhere. But buses in rush hour? Cyclists don't make that much difference.

Boulevardier

Why? because the main purpose of bus lanes is to speed up bus journeys and thus incentivise the use of public transport.

If a cyclist is not slowing down a bus there is no issue, and everyone is happy enough, but where it is happening, the cyclist should let the bus through.

Grudaire

Boulevardier wrote: »

If a cyclist is not slowing down a bus there is no issue, and everyone is happy enough, but where it is happening, the cyclist should let the bus through.

I would generally let a bus by if it's safe for me to do it.

But it's heartbreaking to then be stuck behind the bus because it keeps having to stop!

Let me tell you that it is far more pleasent to sit behind a cyclist than it is a fume excreting beast of a bus!

(that horrible taste and feeling of warmth down your throat when you accidentily inhale)

monument

Boulevardier wrote: »

Why? because the main purpose of bus lanes is to speed up bus journeys and thus incentivise the use of public transport.

If a cyclist is not slowing down a bus there is no issue, and everyone is happy enough, but where it is happening, the cyclist should let the bus through.

If one bus holding 10 people is holding 15 cyclists up, should the bus move in?

Jawgap

Boulevardier wrote: »

Why? because the main purpose of bus lanes is to speed up bus journeys and thus incentivise the use of public transport.

If a cyclist is not slowing down a bus there is no issue, and everyone is happy enough, but where it is happening, the cyclist should let the bus through.

What about taxis, and private buses using the lanes, should a cyclist stop for them?

Also as Leo himself has said, the "primary purpose of providing bus lanes is to facilitate and promote bus based public transport," but it's not the sole purpose.....

"The regulations generally limit the use of bus lanes to buses and, in the case of with-flow bus lanes, to cyclists."

- they don't require cyclists to defer automatically to buses just for reasons of convenience.

Dermot Illogical

Boulevardier wrote: »

Why? because the main purpose of bus lanes is to speed up bus journeys and thus incentivise the use of public transport.

If a cyclist is not slowing down a bus there is no issue, and everyone is happy enough, but where it is happening, the cyclist should let the bus through.

It doesn't happen to any great degree. Buses are mostly delayed by other buses, bus stops, poor planning, traffic lights and gob****es sitting out on yellow box junctions. Cyclists are more likely to be delayed by buses than vice versa.

Surveyor11

So a car with one person using a bus lane legally shoudl also stop in and allow the bus to pass? Like most things, common sense will have to prevail - by giving a bus room, and the driver having the cop on to pass me safely, this issue does not cause me or the bus too much difficulty.

galwaycyclist

Boulevardier wrote: »

Why? because the main purpose of bus lanes is to speed up bus journeys and thus incentivise the use of public transport.

If a cyclist is not slowing down a bus there is no issue, and everyone is happy enough, but where it is happening, the cyclist should let the bus through.

In Ireland, bus lanes (apart from contraflow bus lanes) are "bus and cycle" lanes. They are not exclusively for buses. In congested traffic the bus passengers are still getting an advantage if they are travelling at cyclist speed - eg their journey has "sped up".

It depends on the circumstances of the road. In some cases the main problem is the use of unsuitable lane widths.

monument

I agree with other posters that most bus drivers are great around cyclists but the "use the cycle lane" ones drive me nuts.

I must post a photos when I get a chance of this one... Last week onn driver was driving up my tail end I was going go stop at an orange light but he was too close so I sped up -- I had to -- and he stopped and then started beeping at me, so I went back to see what his problem was and he told me I should have been using the cycle lane.

My photo -- which I won't have a chance to post for a while -- shows his bus in this magical "cycle lane".

I was on a cargo bike and he somehow wanted me to fit between the kerb and the bus -- on a bend!

There was no passing me on the bend but by me keeping out from kerb I was able to go faster. In his mind it was somehow slowing him down.

Karma

Boulevardier wrote: »

I absolutely agree that DB needs to be more careful of cyclists, but cyclists also have responsibilities towards buses and their passengers.

The main one of these is not to slow down buses, particularly on bus lanes.

Buses in rush-hour, carrying upwards of 80 passengers, should not have to crawl along bus lanes because cyclists are in front of them.

Where a cyclist is slowing down a bus, he/she should make way for the bus, and stand in off the road if necessary in order for the bus to continue at a reasonable speed.

wow, just be a **** somewhere else...bus drivers have a lot of peoples lives in their hands, cop on... its about real responsibility and their disregard of other road users not "I will drive WITHIN 30cm of the bikes back wheel"
While there are good bus drivers like there are bad cyclists lets work with what is and not what may be. I know a few bus drivers who are great so its not across the board but specific instances of rage, THE guy's an asshole not because of the job but just being one in the job.
So please let me say, i hope you meet one of the bad ones to get the other side's perspective.

gimme my ban.
see u next week/month or year.

NeedMoreGears

Cliste wrote: »

(that horrible taste and feeling of warmth down your throat when you accidentily inhale)

Just checking. We're still talking about buses right?

Mucco

Here's a quote from a bus driver over in the commuting forum. He seems to be fully aware of cyclists.....

bobby23 wrote: »

Have nothing against cyclists, 80%+ are fine no problems.
Dont mind sharing the bus lane with cyclists at all, when they stay close to the kerb.
But the problems begin with the idiots who think they are pro cyclist and are going so fast, so they cycle in the middle of the bus lane holding up the bus, only going 30-40 kpm.
It happens every day , morning or evening rush hour.
Another thing that is a pain is not using the bike lane. Yet again the Lance Armstrong wanna bees believe they are so fast they are not causing a delay by cycling in the middle of the road.

helimachoptor

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I've had about 1 run in with a bus in the last year where the driver dangerously overtook just to pull into a bus stop directly I front of me. Otherwise id regard Dublin bus drivers as some of the best drivers out there from a cyclists perspective.

Agree with this, on my route 46a, they are excellent and will slow down to allow cyclists to go past a stop rather than over taking, pulling in and then having to force the cyclist to go out into traffic.

Will be on the bike from next week on that route, i expect them to keep up the current level of cyclist love!

Dermot Illogical

Mucco wrote: »

He seems to be fully aware of cyclists.....

But unable to understand why they may not want to stay close to the kerb. He won't be winning any advanced driving awards any time soon.