Metal Subforums?

stefanovich

Rock/Metal seems so broad and generic. Is this discussion about bands you would find in the Rock section of HMV or are you trying to reach out to those interested in the more obscure side of things?

How about a Black Metal or Death Metal subforum?

Twilightning

Let's also add power metal, thrash metal, traditional heavy metal, glam metal, viking metal, stoner metal, symphonic death metal, technical thrash metal, progressive metal...

No. It's fine as it is.

DrumSteve

stefanovich wrote: »

Rock/Metal seems so broad and generic. Is this discussion about bands you would find in the Rock section of HMV or are you trying to reach out to those interested in the more obscure side of things?

How about a Black Metal or Death Metal subforum?

I don't think the traffic would justify it unfortunately.

stefanovich

Well it would be a lot more interesting if it was a bit more focused. There is literally nothing in the entire Rock Metal forum that appeals to me and I'm massively into my black metal and old school death metal.

lord lucan

stefanovich wrote: »

Well it would be a lot more interesting if it was a bit more focused. There is literally nothing in the entire Rock Metal forum that appeals to me and I'm massively into my black metal and old school death metal.

Why not start a thread about a particular genre you're interested in. If there's like minded fans out there they'll see it and join the discussion. A seperate subforum would be tumbleweed city tbh.

At the end of the day,the vast majority of discussion centres around more 'mainstream' acts as they have the most fans.

Jemmaa

I'd vote for separated Metal forum, one for all metal genres.

I don't care what the other people are listening at the end of the day I only know that I am personally not into "mainstream acts" neither day nor night and would love to see mainstream-free forum here.

MetzgerMeister

I'm with Steve on this. We had to fight for a Detailing sub-forum in motors (one of the busiest forums on boards) and we didn't get it. What we did get though was tags in the DIY/Maintenance sub-forum.

It's a much better idea in hindsight because there wasn't enough traffic or detailing questions to justify a sub-forum.

byte

I think this place is fine as is. Diluting it would be a shame.

lord lucan

Jemmaa wrote: »

I'd vote for separated Metal forum, one for all metal genres.

I don't care what the other people are listening at the end of the day I only know that I am personally not into "mainstream acts" neither day nor night and would love to see mainstream-free forum here.

R&M can be mainstream free if the users want it by posting their own threads about bands/genres they love. If Metal was to be split off into a separate subforum it would inevitably suffer from the whole 'what is Metal and what is Rock' debate.

There's plenty of room here for discussion on any genre. Threads will stand or fall by the users and their interests. As it is,Metallica/Pearl Jam etc. are popular amongst Boards users and will continue to dominate R&M.

Mr. CooL ICE

stefanovich, a few years ago there was a campaign to separate rock and metal forums into R/M and Classic Rock. It was denied on the grounds that the traffic to the current R/M forum would not be sustained should they be partitioned. As Twilightning said, if you make a subforum for one subgenre, you could end up creating more subforums and eventually saturate the music sections with near-empty subforums.

As also said, if you don't like anything you see, you can always add your own thread. There are already Brutal DM Recommendations, a Grindcore thread, etc etc.

Malice

If you want to go through the proper channels for additional Rock & Metal forums then create a thread here. I'd be firmly of the opinion that there is no need for separate forums at this time. If there isn't a discussion about a particular niche brand of whatever music you like then stop complaining and start a thread on the topic. Remember users and their discussions are what make forums.

stefanovich wrote:

There is literally nothing in the entire Rock Metal forum that appeals to me and I'm massively into my black metal and old school death metal.

This doesn't make sense. Are you stating that there is absolutely nothing in this entire forum that appeals to you?

viadah

Well it is a mark of the true music fan when no one but yourself knows anything about the bands you like best...

Is it too early for sarcasm? I dunno, splitting it all down to whatever little sub-sets of genres you can think of just seems entirely pointless, from the minute it's mentioned. A little bit of community spirit, a little bit of open-mindedness and there's plenty to keep your interest within the community if you look for it or has been mentioned, you start it yourself.

GLaDOS

No need for it at all, wouldn't get the traffic and a lot of acts wouldn't fall neatly into one specific genre

Useful.Idiot

stefanovich wrote: »

Well it would be a lot more interesting if it was a bit more focused. There is literally nothing in the entire Rock Metal forum that appeals to me and I'm massively into my black metal and old school death metal.

I am also "massively into my black metal and old school death metal" and there has been plenty of worthwhile threads that cater to this. You haven't looked around enough buddy! :P

Cill94

Jemmaa wrote: »

I'd vote for separated Metal forum, one for all metal genres.

I second this.

SouperComputer

Cross pollination is good. Variety is the spice of life (and music)
Leave it as it is.
Plenty of death metal forums about.

stefanovich

Perhaps I didn't trawl through all the threads but on the first few pages it seemed there was nothing of interest. I was surprised.

Started a black metal thread where hopefully people can recommend some interesting stuff.

Nailz

I demand that Mike Patton have his own forum!

Richy06

If you want a death metal forum, here's one...

http://www.metalireland.com/

PickledLime

I agree that there's zero point in having threads about the minutiae of the different genres, but there's a clear difference between bands like say Soundgarden, Suffocation and Watchtower (thought of them randomly, love all three).

I know i'm probably not the only poster on here that never really has the inclination to start threads, but if there was a thread, for example, about progressive rock or the Floridian death metal scene, i'd be happy to click through them and comment.

Twilightning

Richy06 wrote: »

If you want a death metal forum, here's one...

http://www.metalireland.com/

Metal Ireland is an exercise in sadomasochism. All it ever seems like is a mass Irish extreme metal circlejerk between all of the same users. I only check out the gig discussion board on it now and again for any upcoming shows since the promoters usually advertise new gigs on it. I don't think I've actually posted on it since 2008 or 2009.

AaronEnnis

^ Bit of a chip on the shoulder, have we?

The first page of Metalireland shows threads on King Crimson, Grand Magus, Ministry, and Stormzone...hardly what I'd class as 'extreme metal'. Maybe if people actually spent a bit of time on it, they'd see that there's just as much discussion on more traditional heavy metal as there is on the death/black side of things.

Also, I'm not quite sure that's what Sadomasochism means.

Nailz

Sadomasichism is a cross between sadism and masochism where one gets pleasure from the misfortunes or misdwellings of others, typically in a violent or emotional form. What I think he means by that is, putting someone through reading and posting on MetalIreland is bordering on sadomasochism, primarily because most of its posters are shit-talking dickheads.

Jemmaa

Metalireland is very nice, I love Metalireland but no one will let me play songs there - firstly, secondly - white letters on the black screen look very cool but it's very bad for my eyes I feel like I'm going blind, although is a very interesting site


Don't know why some people here are so sensitive about the fact that rock and metal are two absolutely and totally completely different genres

I've never seen even in the music store section Rock/Metal, always separated Rock (or Rock/Pop) and Metal (in the dark corner)

SilverScreen

Jemmaa wrote: »

Don't know why some people here are so sensitive about the fact that rock and metal are two absolutely and totally completely different genres

Fact? In what way, wouldn't you imagine there to some sort of overlap between the two?

Cill94

Twilightning wrote: »

Metal Ireland is an exercise in sadomasochism. All it ever seems like is a mass Irish extreme metal circlejerk between all of the same users. I only check out the gig discussion board on it now and again for any upcoming shows since the promoters usually advertise new gigs on it. I don't think I've actually posted on it since 2008 or 2009.

Why the hate for Metal Ireland users? If you're making them out to be elitists, I see no evidence for that, from my experience. I've seen people posting in a Korn thread with the same enthusiasm as one on Bolt Thrower.

Jemmaa

Zero1986 wrote: »

Fact? In what way, wouldn't you imagine there to some sort of overlap between the two?

So what. Pentatonic scale is often used in country too but you won't put together metal and country right?

In my opinion metal is more instrumental, experimental, challenging genre, music for musicians or for those who's ear is more trained, who are able to enjoy chaos and cacophony, definitely intellectual genre.

Rock is much more often common audience-oriented with more traditional and clear lyrics and structure of the song, so just more understandable more popular and has much larger audience than metal.

I personally wasn't listening to rock music before metal, I was listening to classical music since I was very very young so I see much more similarities between metal and classical music than between metal and rock.

It doesn't mean that I hate rock I respect it but I don't know rock music well and just that I'd like to see more metal in here and learn new names from like-minded researchers but they are rarely posting here because maybe it will look to extreme for traditional rockers.

That's why I would like to separate Metal forum and feel more confident about sharing my favourite music there.

That's the vision that I have in my brain. You can keep yours and I respect your opinion too.

SilverScreen

Jemmaa wrote: »

So what. Pentatonic scale is often used in country too but you won't put together metal and country right?

In my opinion metal is more instrumental, experimental, challenging genre, music for musicians or for those who's ear is more trained, who are able to enjoy chaos and cacophony, definitely intellectual genre.

Rock is much more often common audience-oriented with more traditional and clear lyrics and structure of the song, so just more understandable more popular and has much larger audience than metal.

I personally wasn't listening to rock music before metal, I was listening to classical music since I was very very young so I see much more similarities between metal and classical music than between metal and rock.

It doesn't mean that I hate rock I respect it but I don't know rock music well and just that I'd like to see more metal in here and learn new names from like-minded researchers but they are rarely posting here because maybe it will look to extreme for traditional rockers.

That's why I would like to separate Metal forum and feel more confident about sharing my favourite music there.

That's the vision that I have in my brain. You can keep yours and I respect your opinion too.

Why am I getting the impression that you don't listen to much music besides metal and classical? Don't get me wrong I've always liked metal but the whole idea that metal is more technical than any other style of music isn't particularly true if you take math-rock, jazz and the more experimental end of electronica into account. Not that technicality amounts to much anyway as some artists tend to sacrifice meaningful music for the sake of technicality. Most metal bands I listen to like Celtic Frost and Electric Wizard aren't great musicians anyway, but that's not their point.

I don't understand what you mean by metal being more 'instrumental', do you mean less vocals or more instruments or something? Also a lot of people with 'trained ears' can acknowledge stuff other than metal such post-rock, ambient drone and progressive rock, it doesn't make metal a special case.

I think the whole idea of seperating the rock and metal forums will only create a narrow-minded, elitest attitude and this is something I've seen happen in other forums. It doesn't need to happen here.

TheStickyBandit

I don't see the need for subforums because as it stands there isn't enough traffic on here for my liking.
There are many superthreads which are going well, so maybe a super thread should be started for 'Black Metal', 'Thrash Metal', etc.

Debating the differences between genres is also a futile task as it's all down to difference of opinions!

viadah

I thought most people outgrew genres eventually. Why limit yourself to a marketing definition?

Cill94

The only negative side I can see to having a separate forum for metal is that it could lead to pointless arguments over what is or isn't metal. E.g bands like AC/DC, Led Zeppelin and Motorhead all fall somewhere in between.

GLaDOS

Jemmaa wrote: »

Don't know why some people here are so sensitive about the fact that rock and metal are two absolutely and totally completely different genres

Nonsense, Opeth for example, have for the most part produced metal, however their last album was much closer to progressive rock and that's before you factor in their album Damnation.

Porcupine Tree, especially in their In Absentia and Deadwing Albums will often go from heavy to light several times within the same song. Trying to classify them neatly into rock or metal is impossible.

I've heard a lot of people refer to Led Zeppelin as Heavy Metal, but for me they're definitely rock.

Subforums will just lead to arguments and confusion imo.

Jemmaa

You know what I've read your arguments thoroughly and I've changed my mind now I think you're right and there's no need to have eleven forums for different genres, just one music forum that'd be perfectly fine.

Alternative & Indie

Classical

Electronic Music & DJ'ing

Experimental Music

Hip-Hop

Jazz & Blues

Music

Punk

Rock & Metal

Soul & R 'n' B & Funk

Traditional

I agree that Heritage is more jazz or folk than metal, I actually love Jan Johansson too

viadah

The difference between jazz, say, and punk is vast, in terms of typical musicianship and the people who typically listen to them. Since the difference between people who listen to black metal and doom metal is not so vast, there isn't that much need for separation, hence not much need for sub-forums. Again, all this genre defining bull**** is a marketing label, don't be so negative about broad spectra.

Twilightning

I think this thread is Metal Ireland in a nutshell. Christ what a ****hole.

PickledLime

Whoa, what's with the hating on Metal Ireland for? Just because the posters over there have a record collection that consists of more than The Black Album. Nevermind and Appetite For Destruction doesn't mean they're '**** talking dickheads'. You get plonkers on every forum - it is the internet after all! :rolleyes:

I think it's best to forget having separate forums for the different genres, as already pointed out it'll just lead to arguments over what it is. Take Opeth - i'd call them prog rock or prog metal, but if someone calls them a death metal band or just a metal band, i'm not going to argue! We get the picture, those are all facets of their sound, so all valid, no point splitting hairs over it!

Now, i'm done ranting, so i'm gonna go back to enjoying some good music

PickledLime

Twilightning wrote: »

I think this thread is Metal Ireland in a nutshell. Christ what a ****hole.

Granted, that's a thread that has descended into total douchebaggery, but it happens on most forums.

Twilightning

PickledLime wrote: »

Whoa, what's with the hating on Metal Ireland for? Just because the posters over there have a record collection that consists of more than The Black Album. Nevermind and Appetite For Destruction doesn't mean they're '**** talking dickheads'. You get plonkers on every forum - it is the internet after all! :rolleyes:

I'm really confused by this part of your post, I can't really see what it has to do with anything. Are you implying all anyone ever talks about here is The Black Album, Nevermind and Appetite for Destruction and that we're just bitter they have better taste than people here or something?

PickledLime wrote: »

Granted, that's a thread that has descended into total douchebaggery, but it happens on most forums.

Most threads there have a habit of descending into total douchebaggery it seems, can't say I've ever witnessed anything as bad here since this place is actually moderated.

PickledLime

I said that because whenever i click on the rock and metal forum, it's nearly always the same, boring (to me, that's just my personal taste and no offence intended to anyone, different strokes for different folks and all that) threads about the obvious bands that are being posted in. And the most frequent complaint i've heard about Metal Ireland is that a lot of the stuff featured is too obscure for a lot of people's tastes, so i kinda rolled them together.

Apologies if it offended ya, it was a bit of a harsh statement.

Cill94

Twilightning wrote: »

I think this thread is Metal Ireland in a nutshell. Christ what a ****hole.

Think you're overreacting a bit to a few people disliking a band. It's not as if that doesn't happen on this forum.

Twilightning

Cill94 wrote: »

Think you're overreacting a bit to a few people disliking a band. It's not as if that doesn't happen on this forum.

This forum doesn't devolve into "Only idiots go to <band> shows". There's disliking a band and there's being a bunch of elitist retards.

Cill94

Twilightning wrote: »

This forum doesn't devolve into "Only idiots go to <band> shows". There's disliking a band and there's being a bunch of elitist retards.

Yes but that's not because the posters on here are any more mature. It's because the moderators here are much, much stricter.

Twilightning

Cill94 wrote: »

Yes but that's not because the posters on here are any more mature. It's because the moderators here are much, much stricter.

I'd be inclined to disagree. If the moderators for this forum stepped down tomorrow and left us to our own devices I wouldn't just start calling people idiots for whatever they liked. We're civil towards eachother here because we're not twats, not because we fear some sort of consequence.

Anyway, thread should be locked. It's already apparent subforums aren't happening!

Malice

This thread seems to be going nowhere. If anyone wants to debate the merits of and gauge support for forums then, to quote myself from earlier:

Malice wrote: »

If you want to go through the proper channels for additional Rock & Metal forums then create a thread here.