Owning pets and vegetarianism

Fenian Army

Has anyone else's attitude towards eating meat changed since they started owning pets?

Recently I was reading a book where the character eats dog somewhere, in the Orient, Korea I think it was. I thought it was horrible and it got me thinking, I wouldn't eat my dog, I wouldn't eat rabbit since my cousin got one (I love the little thing! Feel guilty for eating lots of rabbits in the past) and after horse riding for years I wouldn't eat a horse, but I'll eat cows, pigs etc? What makes a cow so different from a horse that I think it's ok to eat it?

Felt guilty as hell eating steak today, couldn't finish it.

Anyone else ever think like me?

MrJoeSoap

Fenian Army wrote: »

Has anyone else's attitude towards eating meat changed since they started owning pets?

Recently I was reading a book where the character eats dog somewhere, in the Orient, Korea I think it was. I thought it was horrible and it got me thinking, I wouldn't eat my dog, I wouldn't eat rabbit since my cousin got one (I love the little thing! Feel guilty for eating lots of rabbits in the past) and after horse riding for years I wouldn't eat a horse, but I'll eat cows, pigs etc? What makes a cow so different from a horse that I think it's ok to eat it?

Felt guilty as hell eating steak today, couldn't finish it.

Anyone else ever think like me?

I was thinking the opposite whilst having a nice steak this evening. Gave a small piece of it to my cat and she loved it as much as I did. You wouldn't see a cat or dog being vegetarian, so why would we be? I'm not anti-veggie or anything, but the ones that preach tend to really annoy me.

Fenian Army

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I was thinking the opposite whilst having a nice steak this evening. Gave a small piece of it to my cat and she loved it as much as I did. You wouldn't see a cat or dog being vegetarian, so why would we be? I'm not anti-veggie or anything, but the ones that preach tend to really annoy me.

Pigs eat sh!t, why shouldn't we?

Humans are in a different league all together when compared to animals such as cats, I don't think you'd see cats debating morals or ethics or doing any of the other million and one things our vastly superior intellect enables us to - that doesn't mean we shouldn't do those things does it?

Also there are many things animals do that decent human beings don't and which we have laws against.

I don't find your argument very weighty tbh

MrJoeSoap

Fenian Army wrote: »

Pigs eat sh!t, why shouldn't we?

Because it doesn't taste nice, I would imagine. Many vegetarians eat chicken eggs and drink cows milk, that is still slightly bizarre when you think about it. But it tastes nice and gives us the nutrients our bodies need to flourish.

Fenian Army wrote: »

Humans are in a different league all together when compared to animals such as cats, I don't think you'd see cats debating morals or ethics or doing any of the other million and one things our vastly superior intellect enables us to - that doesn't mean we shouldn't do those things does it?

Yes, we are vastly more intelligent than cats (though sometimes I do wonder), and we realise that eating meat provides us with the level of variable protein we need to fuel an active body. I'm not saying that vegetarians go around flailing all day, but the protein found in meat is an important part of the human diet.

Fenian Army wrote: »

Also there are many things animals do that decent human beings don't and which we have laws against.

And vice versa.

Fenian Army wrote: »

I don't find your argument very weighty tbh

If your conscience is strong enough to stop you from eating meat then go ahead and do it, it's your personal choice and you need to make it rather than making yourself feel bad whilst eating a steak. I admire the commitment of people who give up meat, because I know it is something I could never do. Of course it feels bad eating meat and knowing that what you are eating is a living creature, and it upsets some people to the extent that they stop doing it.

Fair play to you if you do decide to stop eating meat, but if you don't... why don't you?

yawha

You wouldn't eat them, but you're happy to claim ownership over them, take them out of their natural habitat and keep them in your house for your amusement?

tipseymcT

Where exactly is a dog or cats natural habitat?

I cant eat lamb,duck,goose or rabbit.have had them all as pets over the years & just could not stomach eating them.The smell of lamb cooking actually makes me feel like puking,have not ate it since i was 10 years old.
I suppose any animal you get attached to,makes it difficult for some people to eat another animal of the same species.

Canis Lupus

Armchair psychology answer but some of it is probably down to anthropomorphism. When we own an animal we project human attributes on to it this along with cultural norms makes it hard to view certain animals as food sources.

Personally, if the situation presented itself I'd have no problem trying cat or dog etc.

Shenshen

Fenian Army wrote: »

Has anyone else's attitude towards eating meat changed since they started owning pets?

Recently I was reading a book where the character eats dog somewhere, in the Orient, Korea I think it was. I thought it was horrible and it got me thinking, I wouldn't eat my dog, I wouldn't eat rabbit since my cousin got one (I love the little thing! Feel guilty for eating lots of rabbits in the past) and after horse riding for years I wouldn't eat a horse, but I'll eat cows, pigs etc? What makes a cow so different from a horse that I think it's ok to eat it?

Felt guilty as hell eating steak today, couldn't finish it.

Anyone else ever think like me?

I have to raise my hand. I've been vegetarian for the last 4 years now, my husband has been for around 20 years. Both of us became vegetarian because we felt that since as humans we have a choice when it comes to what we eat, we have to make a decision. And weighing up the arguments, we both found that not eating meat was the way we wanted to go.

It isn't easy. If you do decide to not eat meat any more, you will find that you will have to re-think a lot of the cooking you may be familiar with, and you need to become rather creative and definitely inventive. If you like cooking, it'll be an interesting challenge. If you don't like cooking, it can get really really frustrating.
Also, do not expect to have any choices when eating out (in many restaurants, you'll be lucky if there is one vegetarian dish on the menu), and expect a lot of grief from friends and family.

Whichever way you decide, please always keep in mind that it's a personal decision, not something to try and persuade anyone else of. Good luck!

**Vai**

Fenian Army wrote: »

Has anyone else's attitude towards eating meat changed since they started owning pets?

Not at all. I have a few veggie mates and even 1 vegan but I decided a long time ago that it wasn't for me. I wouldnt eat a dog because thats not why we have dogs, they are companions, unlike pigs, cows, chickens etc.

Fenian Army wrote: »

What makes a cow so different from a horse that I think it's ok to eat it?

You can't ride a cow into battle.

**Vai**

yawha wrote: »

You wouldn't eat them, but you're happy to claim ownership over them, take them out of their natural habitat and keep them in your house for your amusement?

Unless the OP is about 10,000 years old it wasnt him/her who took them from their natural habitat. I'd do a little more research before trying to enlightening anyone.

Shenshen wrote: »

Whichever way you decide, please always keep in mind that it's a personal decision, not something to try and persuade anyone else of. Good luck!

We need more veggies who realise that.

RossPaws

I've been a vegetarian for six years now, it was probably the best decision I ever made for me, personally. I just love animals too much to stomach the idea of eating one that died for something I feel I could live without.

I also keep pets, but they're not the reason I made that decision. I don't agree with shoving my beliefs on others. Meat is never going to just disappear. The best we can hope for is improved conditions in slaughterhouses and transport for the animals. That would be enough for me, I think.

iguana

yawha wrote: »

You wouldn't eat them, but you're happy to claim ownership over them, take them out of their natural habitat and keep them in your house for your amusement?

The OP has a dog, a member of a species that's natural habitat is as a worker/companion animals for humans. If people declined to own them, then they would be taken out of their natural habitat, not the other way around as you are implying. Dogs as we know them never existed in the wild.

Shenshen

**Vai** wrote: »

We need more veggies who realise that.

We actually are the silent majority

Vince32

I know in countries "dog" is the meat of choice, and they are kept in pens until it is time to slaughter them, much the same way as pigs or chickens are kept, it's their culture and they are welcome to it.

I wouldn't have a hard time eating any animal, because they are breed to be slaughtered and not eating them would be a waste of good food in my eyes, as a child I remember apologizing to my food before I ate it, I felt guilty about the animal giving up it's life for me to be nourished. Now the idea makes me feel somewhat silly and juvenile, the only reason I would have to refuse a meal of meat, would be the way in which it was destroyed, quickly and humanely from traceable farms, nothing else would do.

If the Idea of eating animal flesh makes you feel ill, or repulsed then it would be better for you to find nourishment from other sources, I know there are people who have never eaten an animal and live happy healthy lives.

I seen a poster on FB showing a pig and a dog, and the caption that reads why keep one as a pet and eat the other? Because my dog doesn't taste like delicious bacon...

I don't know if that's true, the people in the world who eat dogs, don't seem to mind the flavor, so I guess the old saying is true, "Make decisions that make your life better, and be happy in your choices"

I wouldn't eat my own dog either, but I could easily eat a stray (feral) dog without any distress, the same way as I could share a bacon sandwich with my pet pig (if i had one)

Kash

Meat is yummy.
Pets are great.

There is no correlation between the two for me.

I know for a fact I could happily eat any meat, providing it was tasty.
I like to think that I would avoid meat that has been prepared inhumanely, but I adore fois gras, and often buy the cheap eggs at the supermarket, so my morals clearly don't extend to food.

I flirted with vegetarianism in my teens, but I missed meat too much to stick to it. Each to their own.

ShaShaBear

I've got to say, I tried cutting meat out for the same reasons as the OP speaks off, but it just didn't work for me. In the end (sarcastic and ignorant though it may sound) those butcher shops I walked past on the way to the bank every Tuesday and Thursday were still fully stocked with meat.

I was getting more nutrients from my local pharmacy than from my diet. People can argue the herbivore/carnivore status of human kind, but I can assure you I was not created to live on a diet of pills and Quorn (maybe the Quorn though, it's pretty tasty).

At the end of the day, I decided that my giving up meat impacted on the rights of the slaughtered animals literally nil, so I went back to eating meat from reputable butchers who could trace back to the animal itself and where I was confident that the animals suffered as little as possible considering. I value all life as equally as my own and I accept that some day I will die too, Mufasa had it down to a tee and when I sit down to savoury mince and chips for dinner tonight, I feel a lot better knowing that I am grateful for the sacrifice that animal had to make to nourish me.

Nothing against vegetarians in the slightest as a result, and fortunately all of my veggie friends find my views on meat-eating quite considerate.

yawha

**Vai** wrote: »

Unless the OP is about 10,000 years old it wasnt him/her who took them from their natural habitat. I'd do a little more research before trying to enlightening anyone.

iguana wrote: »

The OP has a dog, a member of a species that's natural habitat is as a worker/companion animals for humans. If people declined to own them, then they would be taken out of their natural habitat, not the other way around as you are implying. Dogs as we know them never existed in the wild.

Ah I know this. My point wasn't to be preachy, it was to point out that if the OP is considering not eating meat based on the attachments they have formed with animals while utilizing them for their benefit, they should probably examine the morality of utilizing animals like this in the first place.

What it ultimately comes down to is animals are all different, and we can be attached to different animals in different contexts and different morals apply.

Dinky22

It is the cruelty involved in the slaughtering of animals that I find extremely upsetting. I have watched some very disturbing programmes on this. That is why I am a vegetarian and why I will not wear fur. Of course it is difficult to miss your pork - but what I have witnessed at how these unfortunate pigs are treated I would feel terribly guilty. :eek:

strandroad

Fenian Army wrote: »

Has anyone else's attitude towards eating meat changed since they started owning pets?

Recently I was reading a book where the character eats dog somewhere, in the Orient, Korea I think it was. I thought it was horrible and it got me thinking, I wouldn't eat my dog, I wouldn't eat rabbit since my cousin got one (I love the little thing! Feel guilty for eating lots of rabbits in the past) and after horse riding for years I wouldn't eat a horse, but I'll eat cows, pigs etc? What makes a cow so different from a horse that I think it's ok to eat it?

Felt guilty as hell eating steak today, couldn't finish it.

Anyone else ever think like me?

Yes it did change for me. I was leaning towards vegetarianism anyway but since I got my dog I can't eat meat. It's just that developing such a relationship with him hammers the message home: animals are sentient beings, cows and pigs are really no different from my dog in how they think and feel and I can's have their suffering on my conscience. Even dairy industry is very cruel, there is some really eye-opening information online; I don't think we were fully aware of it before the interwebs. I reduced my intake of dairy and I pay close attention to where my eggs come from.

At the same time my dog is fed kibble with meat content, which is ironic, but I don't want to take risks with his health (I know my diet is safe for me but not necessarily for him) and also ethically speaking, dog food meat is usually a byproduct. I don't think we can eliminate cruelty completely and become a fully vegan household, including the dog, but we can certainly reduce a lot of our intake and try to source dairy ethically. I'd rather eat less than buy mass produced crap which is based on pure horror for the animals.

ToniTuddle

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I was getting more nutrients from my local pharmacy than from my diet. People can argue the herbivore/carnivore status of human kind, but I can assure you I was not created to live on a diet of pills and Quorn (maybe the Quorn though, it's pretty tasty).

Just on this....if you needed daily/weekly pills and only ate Quorn stuff all the time, then in fairness you were doing it seriously wrong and no wonder you got sick of it :pac:

Even if you don't go back to being a vegetarian check out this thread esp in the last good few pages some of the dishes are simply gorgeous looking.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055634281

I've brushed with being a vegetarian on and off for good while now more so for my healths sake but as well for the whole animal issue too. Plus it makes you be seriously creative in the kitchen Though a lot of my friends are terribly against it but they can feic off, it's my belly :pac:

seamus

Anyone who thinks that a vegetarian diet requires being careful about how you eat and popping supplement pills has been grossly misinformed or was simply doing it wrong.

There are no nutrients which can only be obtained from dead flesh. You can eat perfectly healthy on a vegetarian diet without even having to look at things like quorn or tofu.

While there's a fair argument that consuming animal protein assisted in the evolution of the larger human brain, it's our highly variable diet which has allowed us to survive and adapt to a large number of environments. The ability of humans to source their nutrients from non-animal sources in times when animal sources were scarce or non-existent has been key to the survival of the species.

I find it odd when people ask, "Where do you get your protein from", as if one would starve to death without a piece of meat on the plate. Meat is in fact one of the simplest things to remove from the human diet without any ill-effects.

The ability of someone on one hand to claim a love of animals, but on the other to consume meat which has been invisibly and anonymously slaughtered is one of the prime examples of cognitive dissonance. That's not me preaching; I'm perfectly aware that I too engage in this practice - like others I don't feed my dog vegetarian and I've a justification for that, which right or wrong satisfies my dissonance.

At the end of the day I always operate a "live and let live" policy, and meat-eating irks me much like religion does in that most people don't even think about it and just go along with what's "normal", but at the end of the day I don't preach at people about whether it's right or wrong. In fact, I don't necessarily see a wrong in consuming any flesh (including human, though that poses health issues), it's the preparation that I have an issue with.

Kash

seamus wrote: »

Anyone who thinks that a vegetarian diet requires being careful about how you eat and popping supplement pills has been grossly misinformed or was simply doing it wrong.

I think the frequent perception of vegetarians being pill-popping, tofu-toting, nutritional Nazis comes more from the vegetarian extremes such as veganism. Although (and please, vegans, correct me if I am wrong) there are very few nutrients that cannot be obtained through plant forms, the exception being vitamin B-12 and iodine. I think there is some question on calcium or calcium absorption too - and subsequently vegans are advised to eat/drink foods fortified with the missing nutrients.

seamus wrote: »

The ability of someone on one hand to claim a love of animals, but on the other to consume meat which has been invisibly and anonymously slaughtered is one of the prime examples of cognitive dissonance.

It's a very interesting thought, but I'm not sure I agree with it - for me, cognitive dissonance is the discomfort you feel from holding conflicting beliefs/values/what have you. And personally, I don't feel that a love of animals precludes someone from also enjoying eating them (often with no discomfort or moral dilemma whatsoever). Perhaps it is because we are so easily disaasociated from the reality that a pig has to die so that we can have a BLT. I am always curious as to how many people would continue to eat meat if they had to slaughter and prepare their own meat - that said, I have never met a vegetarian farmer.

strandroad

Kash wrote: »

I think the frequent perception of vegetarians being pill-popping, tofu-toting, nutritional Nazis comes more from the vegetarian extremes such as veganism. Although (and please, vegans, correct me if I am wrong) there are very few nutrients that cannot be obtained through plant forms, the exception being vitamin B-12 and iodine. I think there is some question on calcium or calcium absorption too - and subsequently vegans are advised to eat/drink foods fortified with the missing nutrients.

I agree. Actually the jump from carnivore to vegetarian is insignificant in comparison to the jump from vegetarian to vegan. By eliminating meat you still get all your nutrients, if you keep dairy, eggs etc. If you only leave plants, however, you need to be really nutrition-smart to make sure your diet is versatile and complete.
Also, a lot of people who call themselves carnivores are in fact some sort of negative vegetarian as they like to skip fresh veg/fruit produce at all in favour of processed foods and meats... their nutrition is therefore worse than that of a vegetarian's. I'm afraid this is often ingrained in kids, when they are taught that they need to force themselves to eat veg, as if it was something unpleasant, but chicken nuggets or burgers are treats.

strandroad

seamus wrote: »

At the end of the day I always operate a "live and let live" policy, and meat-eating irks me much like religion does in that most people don't even think about it and just go along with what's "normal", but at the end of the day I don't preach at people about whether it's right or wrong. In fact, I don't necessarily see a wrong in consuming any flesh (including human, though that poses health issues), it's the preparation that I have an issue with.

I agree with this observation. I respect people, who could take part in the process of slaughter etc. and have no qualms eating meat; it's consistent. But a lot of people when brought in to the meat factory would run away screaming and hysterical, and yet they consume the results of the process without a thought...