holding a pen while driving.

Ghandee

Disgusted at the Garda's attitude yesterday.

While driving through a town in Kildare yesterday, I noticed the Gard's behind me with the lights flashing and siren on.
I pulled in, still talking to a customer on my handsfree kit, upon which I told him I'd call him back as I'd been stopped by the police. The young Gard in question then said to me, you needn't pretend you were using your hands free kit now

I couldn't understand what he was getting at, until he said he witnessed me passing him with my phone to my head lol!

I protested my innocence, asked him why on earth I'd use my phone manually when I had a handsfree kit? He said that he quite clearly seen me holding my phone,v which was a blue colour as I drove past, it was then it dawned on me, that what he seen was in fact my pen, which I had been scratching the side of my head with.

No pleading of innocence, including showing him my phone which is a definite black colour would please him.

He told me it was my word against his, and its be getting an 80€ fine in the post.

Luckily I've a northern license, so no points! But come on lads, its our state on that big a revenue raising exercise?

I'll prob pay the fine, simply because I don't need the hassle nor the expense of a lawyer :mad:

I should add, that I was told that it would be his word against mine, and it was his job to issue a fine or summons me to court,and it was my job to dispute it.

I got no paperwork or record of any kind from the Gard in question.


What do the guys here think?

frag420

Write him a letter........................

2011abc

He's just trying to frighten you ,releases he's in the wrong and you wont hear anymore about it .The "Its my word against yours and who do you think the judge will believe ?" , seems to be right up there with "Is this your VEH-ickle?" and "Where's the fire?" amongst their catchphrases ...Ive had it used on me and heard no more about the 'imaginary' 'offence'...

Duggy747

Tell him your taxes pay his wages.

That usually cheers them up.

DavyD_83

Sounds like he might have realised he was in the wrong, but didn't want to back down n lose face.

I'd be surprise if the fine ever turns up to be honest; if you did end up defending it in court it would be more embarrassing for him than you.

Schism

It would be ridiculous to even bring something like that to court.

Basq

Was it a BIC? Those BIC pens are more trouble than their worth.

Scratched my chin with one once.. and BAM... immediate receding hair-line and my cat was pregnant.

Thoie

Why were you holding a pen in the first place, or do you keep one in the door purely for the purpose of scratching your head?

Ghandee

Basq wrote: »

Was it a BIC? Those BIC pens are more trouble than their worth.

Scratched my chin with one once.. and BAM... immediate receding hair-line and my cat was pregnant.

Dam typo, meant penis, not pen.

And yes, its blue in colour, I'm a tight fisted w@nker

Ghandee

Thoie wrote: »

Why were you holding a pen in the first place, or do you keep one in the door purely for the purpose of scratching your head?

Lol, I wear a pair of snickers work wear trousers, and always have a pen in the side pockets.

Basq

Ghandee wrote: »

I wear a pair of snickers work wear trousers

They sound delicious!

smash

Ghandee wrote: »

I should add, that I was told that it would be his word against mine, and it was his job to issue a fine or summons me to court,and it was my job to dispute it.

Should have told him that it's not his job to act like a cnut...

biko

They've heard all the excuses.

Anan1

OP - Are you right handed? If so, and if you passed him on the right, then his view would have been largely obstructed by your head. Out of interest, why do you think the Garda is lying?

Basq

Basq wrote: »

Was it a BIC? Those BIC pens are more trouble than their worth.

Scratched my chin with one once.. and BAM... immediate receding hair-line and my cat was pregnant.

Was this thread moved from after hours or something?

smash

cisk wrote: »

Was this thread moved from after hours or something?

yep

Bullseye1

What do they say about little minded people and giving them power.

biko

They call us mods

Bullseye1

LOL. True.

Ash.J.Williams

Duggy747 wrote: »

Tell him your taxes pay his wages.

That usually cheers them up.

If that doesn't then the one that always breaks the ice is "shouldn't you be off catching real criminals"

Honey-ec

Anan1 wrote: »

Out of interest, why do you think the Garda is lying?

Presumably because he knows himself that he wasn't using a hand-held phone?

OP, something similar happened to my sister last year; stopped at lights in town, car in neutral with the handbrake on, she picked up her mirror compact to check her make up, put it back down on the passenger seat. Next thing, she gets a knock on the window from a Guard, who read her the riot act about using the phone in the car. She's looking at him like he's ten heads, going "I wasn't on the phone?" He says "You were so, I saw you, look, it's there on the seat beside you."

She picks up the mirror, hands it to him and says "This phone?" She said he nearly died, but instead of just saying "Sorry, my mistake" he gave her another 5 minute lecture about driving with due care and attention before letting her go. She was like "Grand, I'll keep that in mind when I'm actually driving and not stopped at the lights with the handbrake on."

Anan1

Honey-ec wrote: »

Presumably because he knows himself that he wasn't using a hand-held phone?

I'll try again. Why does he think that the Garda is lying, as opposed to being mistaken?

smash

Anan1 wrote: »

I'll try again. Why does he think that the Garda is lying, as opposed to being mistaken?

Need to hit his target!

Jimbob 83

Anan1 wrote: »

I'll try again. Why does he think that the Garda is lying, as opposed to being mistaken?

Saving face or just not looking like a tool ?

Anan1

smash wrote: »

Need to hit his target!

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Saving face or just not looking like a tool ?

See this is the outlook that will leave you stuck with tickets unnecessarily. Going into a situation thinking that the Garda's being a pr1ck is generally a self-fulfilling prophecy.

smash

Anan1 wrote: »

See this is the outlook that will leave you stuck with tickets unnecessarily. Going into a situation thinking that the Garda's being a pr1ck is generally a self-fulfilling prophecy.

"I saw you with your phone to your ear"
"I was on my hands free"
"I saw it, it was blue"
"My phone is black, this pen is blue"
"My word against yours, here's your fine"

Now who's being a self-fulfilling prick in this situation?

Jimbob 83

Garda said phone was blue OP showed him black phone sitting in handsfree cradle and then the blue pen in his hand, it's not that complicated.

As i said saving face, and OP seems to only be thinking the Garda was being a prick when he infact started acting the prick saying things like "It's my word vs yours in court"

Anan1

smash wrote: »

"I saw you with your phone to your ear"
"I was on my hands free"
"I saw it, it was blue"
"My phone is black, this pen is blue"
"My word against yours, here's your fine"

Now who's being a self-fulfilling prick in this situation?

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Garda said phone was blue OP showed him black phone sitting in handsfree cradle and then the blue pen in his hand, it's not that complicated.

As i said saving face, and OP seems to only be thinking the Garda was being a prick when he infact started acting the prick saying things like "It's my word vs yours in court"

You're completely missing the point. You can bang on about injustice and abuse of power, or you can work with the Garda, avoid the ticket, and be on your way.

I've been pulled for speeding more times than I can remember over the years, and i've never been issued a ticket or charged. Why not? Attitude.

OP, i would've told him "I was playing with my BIC"

sweeney1971

Represent yourself in Court. The Gard will hate that, as the Judge will not allow the prosecutor to rip you to pieces in Court.

Jimbob 83

Anan1 wrote: »

You're completely missing the point. You can bang on about injustice and abuse of power, or you can work with the Garda, avoid the ticket, and be on your way.

I've been pulled for speeding more times than I can remember over the years, and i've never been issued a ticket or charged. Why not? Attitude.

Attitude my hole, he was wrong i was right is what it boils down to.

Why should someone have to go along with someone who won't admit they are wrong just because they are wearing a uniform and 9/10 people will let themselves be bullied/intimidated into a fine.

Thoie

Anan1 wrote: »

You're completely missing the point. You can bang on about injustice and abuse of power, or you can work with the Garda, avoid the ticket, and be on your way.

I've been pulled for speeding more times than I can remember over the years, and i've never been issued a ticket or charged. Why not? Attitude.

While maintaining a pleasant and respectful attitude, once you've pointed out that you weren't on the phone, and they've replied "My word against yours", where does the conversation go from there? What would be your response to that that would avoid conflict and prevent a fine?

It's different when you have done something wrong and your trying to lick the stains from the cops arse just to get off, you do NOT act guilty when you are NOT, otherwise we are all ****ed when it comes to the law.
Once you say "I am sorry Officer", you are guilty in their eyes.

Anan1

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Attitude my hole, he was wrong i was right is what it boils down to.

Honestly, so what? What matters here is that the OP has a ticket.

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Why should someone have to go along with someone who won't admit they are wrong just because they are wearing a uniform and 9/10 people will let themselves be bullied/intimidated into a fine.

I've never been bullied or intimidated by a guard in my life. It seems obvious to me that what the OP described was a simple mistake on the part of the Garda. When a Garda makes a mistake and you take the approach that they're lying then you will lose. You can fight the powah and feel like a victim your whole live if you want, but there is a better way.

smash

Anan1 wrote: »

I've been pulled for speeding more times than I can remember over the years, and i've never been issued a ticket or charged. Why not? Attitude.

Says a lot when you've gotten away with breaking the law on numerous occasions because you were "nice" to the Gardai, yet he's getting fined when he did nothing wrong. This in itself proves that a percentage of them have a power trip and are just looking for praise or empowerment and to watch someone grovel for forgiveness.

Anan1 is probably exaggerating to bolster his opinion, how many people never got points on numerous occasions because they acted sorry?.:pac:
Defeats the purpose of the LAW.

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

I've never been bullied or intimidated by a guard in my life. It seems obvious to me that what the OP described was a simple mistake on the part of the Garda. When a Garda makes a mistake and you take the approach that they're lying then you will lose. You can fight the powah and feel like a victim your whole live if you want, but there is a better way.

Sadly with some Gardai (and it is a very small percentage of them from my experience) they are just pricks and nothing you say or do is going to change that. Ive been pulled over a few times and usually acting polite and friendly will sort most situations out, but I remember being pulled over by one arsehole (for driving through a town at night, minding my own business and breaking no laws) and his attitude from the first word he said suggested he was looking for something to pull me up on. The more he realised he wasnt going to get something the more nasty he became. As in all walks of life some people are just pricks. The Garda that the OP came across sounds like one of them.

Anan1

smash wrote: »

Says a lot when you've gotten away with breaking the law on numerous occasions because you were "nice" to the Gardai, yet he's getting fined when he did nothing wrong. This in itself proves that a percentage of them have a power trip and are just looking for praise or empowerment and to watch someone grovel for forgiveness.

It's not about grovelling, or apologising. As with any other form of conflict resolution, it's about seeing and respecting where they are coming from. Do that and they'll almost always do the same for you. The uniform is only a bit of fabric - you're dealing with a person, just like yourself.

Zubeneschamali

Anan1 wrote: »

What matters here is that the OP has a ticket.

Eh, no, the guard said the OP would get a ticket. That ticket will never show up.

In general, I'm all for giving them three bags full when stopped, but in this case the guard made an error and then refused to back down when the OP pointed it out.

I would have been polite, but said that I would not pay any ticket he issued, and would defend any summons in court.

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

Sadly with some Gardai (and it is a very small percentage of them from my experience) they are just pricks and nothing you say or do is going to change that. Ive been pulled over a few times and usually acting polite and friendly will sort most situations out, but I remember being pulled over by one arsehole (for driving through a town at night, minding my own business and breaking no laws) and his attitude from the first word he said suggested he was looking for something to pull me up on. The more he realised he wasnt going to get something the more nasty he became. As in all walks of life some people are just pricks. The Garda that the OP came across sounds like one of them.

It is possible that that Garda really was a pr1ck - like you say, some are. It's equally clear from the OP's post, though, that they would have been ticketed anyway.;)

Zubeneschamali

Anan1 wrote: »

It's equally clear from the OP's post, though, that they would have been ticketed anyway.;)

Any normal guard would have had a good laugh when shown the black phone and blue pen, and sent the OP on his way with an apology.

Anan1

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Eh, no, the guard said the OP would get a ticket. That ticket will never show up.

Possibly not, time will tell.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

In general, I'm all for giving them three bags full when stopped, but in this case the guard made an error and then refused to back down when the OP pointed it out.

The central issue here is whether the OP's denial was credible to the guard.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I would have been polite, but said that I would not pay any ticket he issued, and would defend any summons in court.

I wouldn't have worded it quite like that, but I would have been saying essentially the same thing.

Anan1

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Any normal guard would have had a good laugh when shown the black phone and blue pen, and sent the OP on his way with an apology.

Lots of people have more than one phone. Like I said, a central issue is the OP's credibility.

Jimbob 83

Anan post farming yawn nothing to see here.

Anan1

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Anan post farming yawn nothing to see here.

Must be very tiring being that angry.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

Lots of people have more than one phone. Like I said, a central issue is the OP's credibility.

More like your credibility, speeds REGULARLY !!! and gets off because he/she grovels.:D

Jimbob 83

Anan1 wrote: »

Must be very tiring being that angry.

Im a motherf**king babbling brook running into an ocean of serenity :pac:

Anan1

RVP 11 wrote: »

More like your credibility, speeds REGULARLY !!! and gets off because he/she grovels.:D

Grovelling doesn't work. What's your issue with my credibility?

smash

Anan1 wrote: »

It's not about grovelling, or apologising. As with any other form of conflict resolution, it's about seeing and respecting where they are coming from. Do that and they'll almost always do the same for you. The uniform is only a bit of fabric - you're dealing with a person, just like yourself.

A person who has a job to do, but is willing to disregard it if you "respect" them and make them feel empowered...

keano25

You say you have a Northern Licence....

Do you have a Northern address?

Was your car Irish reg or N.Irish reg?

Anan1

smash wrote: »

A person who has a job to do, but it willing to disregard it if you "respect" them and make them feel empowered...

People are people, it works in all walks of life.