.223 rifles. Makes, and experience with them.

Cass

As the title suggests i am after some first hand reviews here.

Looking out for a .223 for pure foxing/vermin. I have owned, and shot a Steyr, CZ, and Sako. All fantastic rifles. The CZ Kevlar was the last one, and through no fault of the gun i had a bad experience when buying it (messed around by the dealer, and after 6+ months got my rifle & gear), and by the time i got the complete package i was soured on the rifle, and soon sold it on.

The thing is i have a gun sitting here (shotgun) that i rarely if ever use. I've been offered a good price on a trade, and the dealer has a nice selection of both new, and second hand guns. Plus unlike a lot of other dealers he is willing to get me in anything i want if nothing he has takes my fancy.

So after a couple of weeks of looking at reviews, reading lads stories here about their rifles i am looking for not just names/brands, but a quick review. More to the point an honest review. IOW say you own a Tikka. What model is it. What do you like about it. What do you NOT like about it. Pros & cons basically.


The current favorite due to it's design, feel, good reviews, etc is the Howa 1500 Supreme Varminter in pepper laminate stock. Also it's sitting on his shelf, and he has all the rails, rings, and scope in stock i would like to see on it. What i'm "nervous" of is going for it knowing that i only have to wait the length of time it takes to do a sub. (2 weeks fingers crossed). I'd like to avoid any pitfalls because of the ease of getting this.

I'd appreciate as many different brands/models, cost (new or second hand) pros & cons, etc.


Thanks in advance.




PS - No offence intended, but i'm set on .223, and have a few other caliber rifles already so other caliber recommendations are not needed.

leupold90

Remington VSSF II

Pros
Accurate.
Comfortable to shoot.
Good looking rifle.
Almost unlimited pimping options if you want.

Cons
Needed bedding, crowning & new trigger to reach it's potential.
'Sticky' bolt sometimes.

Would I buy another? No. Nothing against them and I'm in no hurry to change it - just think there are better options.

ejg

I've had a CZ varmint 1/12 with a 25" barrel which was a lovely rifle.
The stock needed some work and I bedded the rifle. Accuracy was great but overall maybe a bit heavy and barrel too long. Very accurate with any ammo I tried except 55gr fmj umc for some reason. For longer ranges the lighter bullets were not that great.

Had a 22-250 1/14 stainless sporter howa. Most accurate rifle I ever had. Galling of stainless bolt on stainless lugs annoyed me. If Howa again I would not go stainless.

I now have a 223 T3 1/8 lite stainless. Initially accuracy was lousy for my expectations and only an inch to 30mm no matter what ammo. I lapped the barrel, Fergal chopped it to 20", re-crowned and fitted a good stock. With 55gr Sako SP she'd do 1/2", Fiocchi 55gr sp even a bit tighter and with heavier match ammo she'd be between 1/4" and 1/2". At longer ranges she is really consistant and crows have dropped out to well over 400m. Down side of the T3 223 is, one cannot single feed as the lttle cartridge gets lost in the chamber and goes sideways. Feed from the mag is perfect so far although she only has a 4 shot mag.
Once I got the 1/8 T3 to work it seems a little more usefull at longer ranges than the previous rifles I had.
edi

declan1980

I owned a tikka supervarmint in .223. I had it from new and it shot .5 moa out of the box with hornady 55gr vmax. The factory trigger was nice and crisp and is user adjustable with a little hex key. The action is one of the smoothest I've ever felt, especially if I put a tiny bit of tetra gun grease on it and the locking lugs, it almost worked itself. The 6 shot mag is very handy, and the rifle comes with an adjustable cheekpiece as standard.
The downside of that particular rifle was the weight, with a scope and mod on, you'd really feel it on your shoulder and it was very muzzle heavy for shooting freehand. A 20" barrel would be much nicer than the 24" I had. The stock on them is very functional, but a bit plain. Luckily there are loads of options out there. Hope this all helps

Mike87

Tikka Tactical

Pros
-accurate
-very heavy so recoil = almost nonexistant
-nice to look at (not that it matters really)
-easy to adjust trigger (which WILL need adjusting- they're very heavy from factory)


Cons
-any little scratch at all seems to stand out
-barrel is phosphated, not blued. So you cant go out and buy a kit to cover up those scratches- didnt get an exact quote but gunsmith said it would cost "a fair bit more than regular" to fix up.
-its too heavy- once its fully kitted you can kiss goodbye to taken a standing shot- which is a pain when foxing
-its expensive (almost 2 grand when I got mine)
-not too much aftermarket parts
-very fast twist. Can be finnicky with light bullets



All in all, it was a nice rifle. It was very accurate. I traded it for a sako 85 and its the best thing I ever did. THe Sako is in a class of its own. Id go for the sako hands down over a tikka tactical any day.

leupold90

Mike87 wrote: »

Tikka Tactical I traded it for a sako 85 and its the best thing I ever did. THe Sako is in a class of its own. Id go for the sako hands down over a tikka tactical any day.

+1 on Sako. Have tried a few on range and I'd go for one next time funds permitting.

ormondprop

Sako 75 varmint 1:8

Loved it but sold it for the money as i'm going away in a while,

Cons:
Weight and limited mounting options

Pros:
Everything else
Shot great out of the box
Brilliant quality
6round double stack detachable magazine so can be top loaded
Smooth bolt
Nice trigger
Holds its value if your stupid enough to sell it on like me

I know i'll regret selling it but hav a cz american on the way in .204 with an after market bedded stock so will see how that goes, i like the weight and handling of the cz's but the magazine is ugly and the mauser action isn't as smooth but it was cheap so if it shoots well i'll be happy

Glensman

Howa 1500 Sporter.


Pros:
It’s cheap
It’s accurate
Trigger is easily adjusted
Action is excellent
It’s cheap
Has 3 position safety
Good bolt release position
Feeds EVERY single time
Light
It’s cheap

Cons:
It doesn’t like fast loads
You can’t use the Wheeler Level-Level-Level scope mounting aids on the action.


Remmy 700 VSSF II & Remmy 700 with custom barrel

Pros:
Stunningly accurate
Bolt is as smooth as can be
Aftermarket parts
Action is excellent

Cons:
Can be fiddly to load and have the odd feed error
Bolt release is in awkward place
2 position safety does not lock bolt (this may also be a pro, I’m undecided)
Heavy

Cass

Thanks for the information so far lads. Some excellent info there.

Keep them coming.

triskell

Are you sure its going to be a sub and not a new app, my FAO/ super won't do a shottie to centre sub. the whole like for like sceal.

Cass

Not subbing the shotgun. Trading the shotgun, and subbing another rifle license for the .223.

triskell

Ezridax wrote: »

Not subbing the shotgun. Trading the shotgun, and subbing another rifle license for the .223.

Aaah i see, A cunning plan.:D

deeksofdoom

CZ527 Varmint Laminate
Pros
.223 ammunition easy to come by
Hammer forged barrel
Barrel starts out thick at the breach and is nicely tapered towards the muzzle which means it performs like a heavy varmint barrel in that it doesn’t heat up quickly.
Magazine Fed
Mini Mauser Action
Accurate – sub MOA at 100 yards
Cheap

Cons
Bolt is stiff when feeding the first round when the mag is full.
You have to disengage the safety to remove a live round from the breech.
16mm dovetail required for the scope mounts

Cass

Between myself and the Father we have 13 or so licenses on shotguns, and rifles. So i intend to trade the shotgun, buy the rifle, sub the shotgun license to the other shotgun, then use one of the other licenses and sub it onto the new rifle.

All my rifles are above or the same as a .223 cal so subbing down has never been an issue when it comes to like for like.

garv123

deeksofdoom wrote: »

CZ527 Varmint Laminate


Cons

You have to disengage the safety to remove a live round from the breech.

One of the biggest flaws about cz rifles IMO.

ormondprop

deeksofdoom wrote: »

CZ527 Varmint Laminate
Pros
Hammer forged barrel

Would that not be a con? Although dont most factory rifles have hammer forged barrels

garv123 wrote: »

One of the biggest flaws about cz rifles IMO.

Horses for courses really, my .22 is the same so i'm used to it, my sako 75 had a little switch on the safety to work the bolt when the safety was on and i never used it so not having it on my cz 527 when i get it won't bother me but might be a deal breaker for other people

Ziggieire

Howa 1500 Supreme Varminter pepper thumbhole laminate stock heavy barrel

i Have the same Rifle well im 90% sure its the same
mine has a heavy barrel

i have used a lot of different rifles my dads and brothers and uncles
from ruger 22-250 to rem 700 270, 223,

i got the Howa in April and i love it
Pros
very solid action
very easy cleaning
its heavy so no recoil at all
It’s very accurate
Has 3 position safety
Trigger is easily adjusted
has never failed me

Cons
IMOP its a bit heavy for walking with
harder to get aftermarket stocks liek Acis than rem 700

declan1980

garv123 wrote: »

One of the biggest flaws about cz rifles IMO.

Tikka are the same, but like ormondprop said, if you never had it you won't miss it

meathstevie

deeksofdoom wrote: »

CZ527 Varmint Laminate
Pros
.223 ammunition easy to come by
Hammer forged barrel
Barrel starts out thick at the breach and is nicely tapered towards the muzzle which means it performs like a heavy varmint barrel in that it doesn’t heat up quickly.
Magazine Fed
Mini Mauser Action
Accurate – sub MOA at 100 yards
Cheap

Cons
Bolt is stiff when feeding the first round when the mag is full.
You have to disengage the safety to remove a live round from the breech.
16mm dovetail required for the scope mounts

Does it not have the two step safety like the 550 ?

virminhunter

Ziggieire wrote: »

harder to get aftermarket stocks liek Acis than rem 700

true, but rem700 being no.1 for aftermaket gear I reckon the howa 1500 is no.2, hell of a lot of gear available for them, stocks from mcmillan, roedale and pse to name a few along with magazine kits, triggers etc.

Seemingly high quality barrels on them too.

FISMA

Ez,
If you give me two or three weeks, I'll write a report on the Rem 700SPS vs the Howa 1500. They're not the models you're looking at, but may help.

If I were to just pick them up, prices comparable, I would probably choose the 1500 when it comes to short action and the 700 when it comes to long action.

The 1500 gets +1 for the stock and +1 for the trigger, we all know the 700 SPS isn't going to win there.

I do not have a CZ rifle. In the states, the CZ's are now getting to be more expensive than the Remington's and I, fail to see a justification of price to performance.

The CZ pistols, which I love, used to be cheaper than others in their class. Now a P-01 is more expensive than a Glock! No offense to CZ, but I don't see their performance having moved with their prices.

It's hard to beat the 700 over here. However, if you saw a price like this (warning - safe to open, but depressing to see), why wouldn't you get a 1500. Throw on an extra $100 to get it home, but still, at that price!

+1 for the 1500 - it uses the 700 rail/mounting systems!

Again, I'll be taking the two to the range later this month. Both are almost new. Maybe a box through the 1500 and a handful through the 700. They'll both have pic rails, XTR mounts, and a Fullfield II scope. Thus, all things will be considered equal.

I'll probably shoot some Hornady ammo, haven't reloaded yet.

Have you any requests? Any ammo you want tried? Any particular grain bullets? Any variables you want considered?

Slan.

Cass

I'm heading out on a "field trip" tomorrow so will report back.

I'd like to thank everyone for their replies so far, and please keep them coming as the thread serves not only me but anyone else looking for the same.

FISMA - As said i'm heading out tomorrow, but by all means please do out a report at your earliest convenience. I would like to see the results irrespective of what i buy or if i have one bought by the time you get around to doing the report.

As for ammo. Well i'd be interested in seeing what the Howa would do. With a 1:12 twist i assuming it'll like the lighter end of the scale bullet wise. 50gr to 55gr would be ideal however i doubt it'll fire anything over 60. Also some attention to performance in general. Trigger, groups, distances, feel, etc. Everything a perspective buyer would like to know.

Thanks.

FISMA

Ezridax wrote: »

I'm heading out on a "field trip" tomorrow so will report back.

WILCO Ez.

Good luck on your field trip.

I'll give you the same advice that I give someone in the states when they are choosing between rifles: buy both!

4200fps

leupold90 wrote: »

Remington VSSF II

Pros
Accurate.
Comfortable to shoot.
Good looking rifle.
Almost unlimited pimping options if you want.

Cons
Needed bedding, crowning & new trigger to reach it's potential.
'Sticky' bolt sometimes.

Would I buy another? No. Nothing against them and I'm in no hurry to change it - just think there are better options.

The only thing I hear about the VSSF is that on the .220 swift caliber they wont load correctly from the magazine and foul every single ballistic tipped round before entering the rear of the barrel chamber. Doesn't happen with soft point, Does this happen with the .223 in the VSSF?

deeksofdoom

meathstevie wrote: »

Does it not have the two step safety like the 550 ?

Not familiar with a 2 step safety, basically you can't move the bolt with the safety on, so you flick it off and pull the bolt back. Other than that its a great rifle.

leupold90

4200fps wrote: »

The only thing I hear about the VSSF is that on the .220 swift caliber they wont load correctly from the magazine and foul every single ballistic tipped round before entering the rear of the barrel chamber. Doesn't happen with soft point, Does this happen with the .223 in the VSSF?

Never experienced that. Sometimes the bolt will be 'sticky' or drag on the magazine plate when you load the last round. Doesn't happen all the time and I suspect it's just my one. I had another 700 before and it never happened with that one.

cushcam

4200fps wrote: »

The only thing I hear about the VSSF is that on the .220 swift caliber they wont load correctly from the magazine and foul every single ballistic tipped round before entering the rear of the barrel chamber. Doesn't happen with soft point, Does this happen with the .223 in the VSSF?

i have never had any feed issues with mine using the .223 55 grain remington accutips

4200fps

cushcam wrote: »

i have never had any feed issues with mine using the .223 55 grain remington accutips

This is with the .220 swift caliber.

cushcam

4200fps wrote: »

This is with the .220 swift caliber.

i know i was just answering the last sentence in your previous post

4200fps

cushcam wrote: »

i know i was just answering the last sentence in your previous post

I'm not awake today lol. Thats good to hear about the 223 loading ok

ormondprop

Ezridax wrote: »

I'm heading out on a "field trip" tomorrow so will report back.

how did that field trip go after? Anything tempting you?

FISMA

ormondprop wrote: »

how did that field trip go after? Anything tempting you?

Good question - I've always wanted to ask about the turnout on old threads and am about to reply to a few of my own, if my shopping spree goes according to plan

Cass

I started this thread with the one single thought that the rifle would be a .223 to fill that "void". That was until i got to Jim Griffins.

I was talking, and looking at a certain rifle and dismissed it as it would exceed any budget i had, especially new. What do i find when i walk in only the exact model i was thinking off just in the "wrong caliber".

A Sako 75 Deluxe in .243 cal. The stock was lovely, and had a great feel. The trigger guard, and floor plate were nicely engraved. Barrel was medium light, and blued. All topped off with a S&B 6x42 in Sako Optilock rings. The gun came up to my shoulder perfectly, and out of curiosity i asked the price. When i was told it i asked again for the price for the gun and scope, and was told that was it.

So the plans for a dedicated .223 foxing/vermin rifle seem to be slightly out the window. I'll have no problem with the license for a .243, but am fairly sure this is the gun for me. So after thinking it over for a few days i decided that the Remmy might be "retired" because the .243 would not only act as a foxing/vermin rifle, but would be perfect for deer too. I've seen lads over the years with two deer legal rifles, and they always favour one over the other to such an extent that one is left idle for months or until they decide to sell it.

So I have left the shotgun in as a "deposit", but have also left in the rifle. Whichever goes first will pay for the new toy, and the other will come home with me. Whichever one it is is of no consequence of me.

So thanks to everyone that answered, and gave their opinion. The thread will serve as a "guide" for others so if anyone else feels like posting lash away.

declan1980

Ezridax wrote: »

......A Sako 75 Deluxe in .243 cal....

That's a nice gun, best of luck with it. I'm looking forward to seeing a few pics of it, and seeing a few pics of it's work in the hunting photos.

Jonty

I know its a bit O/T, but my dad has one in 270 and I have a 308 in a stainless varmint version. savage rifles, nice to shoulder, nice to shoot.

Best of luck with it

Chesapeake

hunt out a nice 461 or an early 491 Sako.