Owner unable to care for dog - what to do?

mosi

Earlier today I found a dog out on the road. He was running back and forth, and almost got hit by a car, so I took him in.
The OH and I brought him around to the park beside us to see if anyone recognised him, and eventually found out where he lives. His owner is an elderly man. We went up to the house and the door was open but nobody home. We then spoke to the neighbour who called the Gardai, as he was concerned about the man's whereabouts.
From talking to the neighbour, and other locals, we have learned that the man is in his late seventies and has dementia. The dog is constantly allowed to wander. The man's last dog also wandered all the time and was put down after biting a child. The house itself was in a right state and the hallway was full of dog food tins that have been chewed. The Gardai were pretty horrified by the condition of the place.
We have taken the dog back home with us for the night, and have left our details with the neighbour for when the owner returns. We are very concerned though about handing back the dog as he clearly is unable to look after it. The other locals that we spoke to agreed that we should try and find him a good home. The thing is though, how to broach this with the owner when he shows up. He may not be willing to hand over the dog. Would the DSPCA or another organisation be able to help in this regard?

Zapperzy

I would be hesitant about broaching the situation at all with him yourself, do the neighbours know has he any family at all that you could discuss your concerns with? I would be quite concerned for the man's wellbeing as well as the dogs. If as you say there's chewed up dog food tins all over the hallway then what's the rest of the house like and is he actually able to care for himself nevermind the dog. I'm all for the benefits that pets bring to the elderly and I wouldn't like to see the dog just taken off him, if he's on his own it's probably a lot of company for him but he needs help to care for himself and the dog. Not sure who you would contact to express your concerns.

Cherry Blossom

What condition is the dog itself in, any indication that it is not being fed/watered, any signs of neglect of any sort. Personally, I'd speak with the Gardai and see if any family members can be located first off, this is a much bigger issue than a man not being able to care for his dog tbh. Most preferable option would be to try to find a family member/ friend/ neighbour willing to make sure the dog is looked after properly. There's a big chance that taking the dog away (despite the distress caused) will just result in him getting another dog.

mosi

I agree there are bigger issues to consider here.
Regarding family, he has a daughter but she doesn't live nearby, and the neighbours don't know her name or have any details. I don't think she visits much. Apparently he gets meals on wheels delivered but afaik he does not have any home help or anything like that.
The house is in terrible condition, and is very dirty. As well as the chewed empty tins, there was dog food all over the floor. As I said the Gardai were shocked by how bad it was. Last winter the neighbour called in, as he had not seen the man in a few days, and he found him huddled in bed with layers of clothes on, trying to keep warm. Seemingly, he is quite a difficult person to deal with. Others have found him very rude, and he tried to steal a dog off a woman in the park once, claiming it was his.
The dog is 18 months old and is a border terrier mix. He is very friendly, but is definitely on the thin side - not emaciated, but still quite thin. He had a piece of wool tied on to his collar. From what I have been told, he is routinely allowed to wander.
I guess when he shows up, I will try and get contact details for his daughter from him. That might be easier said than done though. I would be very uncomfortable handing the dog over unless his wellbeing could be guaranteed. I understand completely that pets are great for the elderly and I don't want to cause any unnecessary distress. However, the way things look, it seems that both owner and dog need to go to a home.

Fenian Army

mosi wrote: »

I agree there are bigger issues to consider here.
Regarding family, he has a daughter but she doesn't live nearby, and the neighbours don't know her name or have any details. I don't think she visits much. Apparently he gets meals on wheels delivered but afaik he does not have any home help or anything like that.
The house is in terrible condition, and is very dirty. As well as the chewed empty tins, there was dog food all over the floor. As I said the Gardai were shocked by how bad it was. Last winter the neighbour called in, as he had not seen the man in a few days, and he found him huddled in bed with layers of clothes on, trying to keep warm. Seemingly, he is quite a difficult person to deal with. Others have found him very rude, and he tried to steal a dog off a woman in the park once, claiming it was his.
The dog is 18 months old and is a border terrier mix. He is very friendly, but is definitely on the thin side - not emaciated, but still quite thin. He had a piece of wool tied on to his collar. From what I have been told, he is routinely allowed to wander.
I guess when he shows up, I will try and get contact details for his daughter from him. That might be easier said than done though. I would be very uncomfortable handing the dog over unless his wellbeing could be guaranteed. I understand completely that pets are great for the elderly and I don't want to cause any unnecessary distress. However, the way things look, it seems that both owner and dog need to go to a home.

Poor man, but I don't think you have much choice, you can't really steal his dog.

People with dementia can be very hard to deal with, not their fault though ofc.

hollysf

Is there a district nurse in your area you could contact about this poor man

mosi

Fenian Army wrote: »

Poor man, but I don't think you have much choice, you can't really steal his dog.

People with dementia can be very hard to deal with, not their fault though ofc.

I really don't want to get to a situation where I'm "stealing" a dog. It's such a bad situation to send the dog back to though That's why I'm wondering if any agencies - be it the SPCA or the HSE - can be involved here. Or, even better, his family, if they can be contacted.

mosi

hollysf wrote: »

Is there a district nurse in your area you could contact about this poor man

I'll look into that tomorrow and see what they say.

Topper7

Personally I would be more concerned for the owner than the dog. The man clearly has difficulty in looking after himself & the dog. I would suggest contacting the HSE/local public health nurse regarding your concerns. http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/Older_People_Services/ Perheaps a local vol can also help such as www.alone.ie/ the legion of mary, the order of malta, lions club etc. as it would maybe difficult to get the right help for the man from the HSE in the short term.
In contrast, the man may not want help & all he wants is to be left alone with his dog?
This story remins me of a relation of mine. Similar case and all my relation had was a cat & dog (no children of his own). I & neighbours would bring him & the pets food, especially if we thought he/pets wasnt getting enough to eat. But he just wanted to be left alone. So if we got no answer we would leave box at the door and call back a day or 2 later to ensure that he got it. He was ashamed to allow people into the house to see its condition & scared to admit that he needed help in case of what might happen to him.
Personally I would suggest that you contact some local organisation re the mans condition & return the pet immeaditely! If you feel that strongly for the pet maybe you could pop around to the man from time to time & check on them both?

mosi

Topper7 wrote: »

Personally I would suggest that you contact some local organisation re the mans condition & return the pet immeaditely! If you feel that strongly for the pet maybe you could pop around to the man from time to time & check on them both?

I would have no problem popping around. However, what if he keeps letting the dog wander? I learned that others who have found and returned the dog to him have received a barrage of verbal abuse off him for doing so. I really don't fancy finding the dog dead on the road one day when I could have done something.
It is disgraceful that the man is living like that, and that is certainly an issue that needs to be addressed, and that I will look into further.

JustAThought

Imagine if you were alone in the world, had no friends and a daughter that rarely visited. And someone took your pet dog and refused to give it back.

You need to give that man his pet back.

It is not yours,
you do not authorisation to seize it,
and can you imagine how a man who is already confused and barely able to cope must feel now that someone has taken his pet.

As someone else has stated; no doubt a great way to help both him and the dog would be to check in & engage the authorities with regard to the man. No doubt he's " old school" re dogs wandering ; but if the police etc are now involved he will no doubt have options put to him including about the dog; he can then choose what path to follow in a structured way ; rather than just have his pet taken by a stranger & held.

I appreciate that you have good intentions & are interested in helping this poor man and his pet; there are a lot if people who would just walk away; I hope there will be with your help and his neighbours a good outcome for him.
How sad it is

mosi

Just a quick update. It looks as though the owner did not return home last night. Obviously, I don't know what the situation there is - if something has happened to him or if a relative has taken him away for a few days. Either way, it's not a great scenario. The Gardai will be keeping tabs on the situation I'm sure, and hopefully we will know more later.

Dodd

Did you give the dog back.?

What if the guy has gone out looking for his dog and cant find it but keeps looking even though you have it.?

sambuka41

Fair play OP for looking after the dog, and for being concerned about this man. Dementia is such a difficult disease, if the family aren't in contact with you I wouldn't be in much of a hurry to give the dog back myself.

I work with people with dementia, I can understand that this dog may be the only thing this man has but it does present a risk to this gentleman as well as him present a risk to the dog. Trips (for a lot of reasons) can be quite common in people with a dementia so the dog can pose a risk to him as a fall hazzard. Also I worked with a lady who would get frustrated and take it out on the dog if he didn't understand what she wanted, it was so sad, she had been a huge animal lover all her life and was reduced to hitting the dog when she cound't express herself and what she wanted him to do. There was a risk that the dog could turn on her (understandably so).

Highlight your concerns to the Public Health Nurse, he/she will be more likely to look at the overall health and safety of this man. The Gardai will just be concerned that the man is safe, if it comes down to a conversation about the dog they will not get involved. I would imagine the PHN knows about this man and may well be able to contact the family to express concern but also to verify his whereabouts.

good luck

OldNotWIse

Fair play and you are right to be concerned about both. I dont want to start an argument on a thread where someone is seeking advice but I dont really agree with the posts sayingm "give the poor man back his dog". If the dog wanders again and bites a child for example, then it will fall back on him, he is liable for the dogs actions. Also, the dog would need to be destroyed, or if he had an accident and had to be destroyed - wouldn't this be distressing for him?

I'm not entirely sure about the law but afaik the DSPCA would have the power to seize the dog is there are reports that he is being neglected and they do an inspection and find this to be the case. The pound would have the power to seize him if he is wandering unrestrained, and if he is not claimed after a certain amount of time he will become available for adoption.

Dodd

sambuka41

A very informative post.

Thanks.

mosi

Dodd wrote: »

Did you give the dog back.?

What if the guy has gone out looking for his dog and cant find it but keeps looking even though you have it.?

The dog is still here. I couldn't drop the dog into an empty house with the front door open. The next door neighbour has my contact details.

sambuka41 wrote: »

Fair play OP for looking after the dog, and for being concerned about this man. Dementia is such a difficult disease, if the family aren't in contact with you I wouldn't be in much of a hurry to give the dog back myself.

I work with people with dementia, I can understand that this dog may be the only thing this man has but it does present a risk to this gentleman as well as him present a risk to the dog. Trips (for a lot of reasons) can be quite common in people with a dementia so the dog can pose a risk to him as a fall hazzard. Also I worked with a lady who would get frustrated and take it out on the dog if he didn't understand what she wanted, it was so sad, she had been a huge animal lover all her life and was reduced to hitting the dog when she cound't express herself and what she wanted him to do. There was a risk that the dog could turn on her (understandably so).

Highlight your concerns to the Public Health Nurse, he/she will be more likely to look at the overall health and safety of this man. The Gardai will just be concerned that the man is safe, if it comes down to a conversation about the dog they will not get involved. I would imagine the PHN knows about this man and may well be able to contact the family to express concern but also to verify his whereabouts.

good luck

That is so sad about that lady. A friend's mother has dementia, and I stayed in the house sometimes when he was away. She was a very sweet old lady but was a constant worry. She would go out at 3 in the morning to wander down to where the shops were. She's in a home now as the situation was getting a bit much for my friend.
This man's house is quite a health and safety hazard. The way dog food was left around the floor would make me worry about rats. In the gable, there is a hole where pigeons are flying in and out. Will definitely talk to a PHN, and see how to move this forward.

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Fair play and you are right to be concerned about both. I dont want to start an argument on a thread where someone is seeking advice but I dont really agree with the posts sayingm "give the poor man back his dog". If the dog wanders again and bites a child for example, then it will fall back on him, he is liable for the dogs actions. Also, the dog would need to be destroyed, or if he had an accident and had to be destroyed - wouldn't this be distressing for him?

I'm not entirely sure about the law but afaik the DSPCA would have the power to seize the dog is there are reports that he is being neglected and they do an inspection and find this to be the case. The pound would have the power to seize him if he is wandering unrestrained, and if he is not claimed after a certain amount of time he will become available for adoption.

Well, his previous dog did bite a child while out wandering, and was subsequently destroyed. I have a friend who volunteers with the DSPCA, so will be talking with her later over the situation.

Regarding the whole issue of handing the dog back, I have handed back plenty of dogs that I have found. Sometimes I haven't approved of their apparent "open door policy" with their dogs but I have handed them back nonetheless. This situation is far more complex though, and accordingly requires a different approach.

OldNotWIse

mosi wrote: »

The dog is still here. I couldn't drop the dog into an empty house with the front door open. The next door neighbour has my contact details.



That is so sad about that lady. A friend's mother has dementia, and I stayed in the house sometimes when he was away. She was a very sweet old lady but was a constant worry. She would go out at 3 in the morning to wander down to where the shops were. She's in a home now as the situation was getting a bit much for my friend.
This man's house is quite a health and safety hazard. The way dog food was left around the floor would make me worry about rats. In the gable, there is a hole where pigeons are flying in and out. Will definitely talk to a PHN, and see how to move this forward.



Well, his previous dog did bite a child while out wandering, and was subsequently destroyed. I have a friend who volunteers with the DSPCA, so will be talking with her later over the situation.

Regarding the whole issue of handing the dog back, I have handed back plenty of dogs that I have found. Sometimes I haven't approved of their apparent "open door policy" with their dogs but I have handed them back nonetheless. This situation is far more complex though, and accordingly requires a different approach.

I volunteered for the DSPCA for years, small world!

Dodd

I think you should put a note on his door saying where the dog is.
He might be out all the time looking for it.
There is still loads to sort out with this person but at least if they know their dog is ok............work from there.?

JustAThought

Small world indeed!!

If the daughter or man or family arnt in a position to keep the dog & the owner is in agreement the Dogs Trust have s scheme where you can apply for a ( free) Canine Card & if you should die (!) they will automatically take care of your dog ; their policy is that they never put a healthy dog down. Perhaps it might be a suggestion to take up with the man & his family; if he does end up wanting/ having to part with his pet it might be something the Dogs Trust could take on under this scheme. Thou trchnically I think you re supposed to be deceased!!! Better odds than 5 days in the pound.


Either way it's still not your decision even thou you care. It is not your dog to take or give away.

mosi

I spoke to the PHN today and she said she knows the man well. She didn't seem too concerned though - when I mentioned the state of the house, she said - rather defensively - that the house had been done up. Regarding the dog, she asked would I not just let him find his own way home :eek: She also said that the man has a sister and she would call her with my details.
Next, I called the DSPCA. They advised that I should call the dog warden. If the dog was reclaimed they said I should then contact them immediately. I was really reluctant to go the pound route but it was starting to look like the only viable option until I had a breakthrough.
The OH and I went to the local vets, to see if they knew him and to scan for a chip. Turns out they know the situation very well. The dog has been handed into them numerous times by people who have found him. He has also been in the pound on a few occasions. The vets have been trying to persuade the man's sister to let the dog be rehomed. It also seems that the man is due to go into a home soon. I left my number with them and the sister should be contacting me tomorrow. I'll discuss the options with her when I speak to her and see where we go from there.

ppink

Mosi fair play to you for all your efforts. it is a very difficult situation to be in with no really clear way of handling it.
Best thing might be to talk to the sister and let her decide, she should have a better knowledge of the man and the dog.
I do think Dodds suggestion about the note on the door is a good one.

JustAThought

mosi wrote: »

I spoke to the PHN today and she said she knows the man well. She didn't seem too concerned though - when I mentioned the state of the house, she said - rather defensively - that the house had been done up. Regarding the dog, she asked would I not just let him find his own way home :eek: She also said that the man has a sister and she would call her with my details.
Next, I called the DSPCA. They advised that I should call the dog warden. If the dog was reclaimed they said I should then contact them immediately. I was really reluctant to go the pound route but it was starting to look like the only viable option until I had a breakthrough.
The OH and I went to the local vets, to see if they knew him and to scan for a chip. Turns out they know the situation very well. The dog has been handed into them numerous times by people who have found him. He has also been in the pound on a few occasions. The vets have been trying to persuade the man's sister to let the dog be rehomed. It also seems that the man is due to go into a home soon. I left my number with them and the sister should be contacting me tomorrow. I'll discuss the options with her when I speak to her and see where we go from there.

I'm impressedby the amount ofeffort & rooms you are putting into this. It's a very sad story by all accounts. Sad fact remains that it is still not your dog and handing it into the pound will most likely have that poor mans pet destroyed. Imagine if that happened to you if you were old & I'll & confused & loosing your home.
I suspect that the daughters reluctance to do so might stemfrom the fact she knows this & despite everything dosnt want this to happen; nor perhaps to take it herself. Perhaps an indication of hope in thus sad story.
At end end of the day that dog belongs to that man ; and it should not be given away or handed in to be put on what is ultimately a 5 day death row without his permission.

For all you know there are alternatives.
Do youknow this family personally; prior to finding his pet?

Either way thank you for all the time & trouble You are spending on him. But do rememberthatdespite caring this is not your pet; it belongs to the old man.

Imagine if someone did that to your pet if you were old and confused and ill.

maggiepip

Im not sure that Mosi is getting enough praise from some people for what he/ she is doing. Why do people keep saying "the man owns this dog" ...."give the dog back"....etc How can he/she give the dog back to an empty house with the front door open??

This dog is obviously not being looked after properly as it has been found roaming numerous times - endangering itself and other people on the roads. It is also in danger of falling into the hands of thugs etc if it is out roaming.

Of course it is sad about the plight of this poor man, but if he cannot properly look after his dog then he shouldnt have the dog. It is unfair to the dog who should have rights also - to be kept free from harm, fed, walked and loved.

Mosi is making a huge effort to try and do the best thing for this dog,he/ she has phoned numerous authorities (he/she seems to be getting very little help) and has shown unbelievable caring, kindness, and responsible actions. He/She has certainly not just taken someones dog willy nilly. To all those who keep saying give the dog back - you believe then that he/she should just hand over the dog to an empty house? or just throw the dog into a very ill man when that person is putting the welfare of the dog at risk??? (of course not deliberately).

I have 3 dogs and if I had dementia and didnt know what I was doing and ended up not looking after my dogs and causing them danger by leaving front doors open etc.... the "well" me (so to speak - I hope you follow) would be eternally grateful for an extremely kind person to step in and be concerned about the welfare of my beloved dogs. This man - if he was well - would probably be horrified his beloved dog was being put in danger.

Everything this extremely kind and caring person has done so far is hugely admirable - it is just a shame there are not more people out there willing to put such effort into doing the right thing - it is uplifting to see someone take the time to care.

JustAThought

maggiepip wrote: »

Im not sure that Mosi is getting enough praise from some people for what he/ she is doing. Why do people keep saying "the man owns this dog" ...."give the dog back"....etc How can he/she give the dog back to an empty house with the front door open??

This dog is obviously not being looked after properly as it has been found roaming numerous times - endangering itself and other people on the roads. It is also in danger of falling into the hands of thugs etc if it is out roaming.

Of course it is sad about the plight of this poor man, but if he cannot properly look after his dog then he shouldnt have the dog. It is unfair to the dog who should have rights also - to be kept free from harm, fed, walked and loved.

Mosi is making a huge effort to try and do the best thing for this dog,he/ she has phoned numerous authorities (he/she seems to be getting very little help) and has shown unbelievable caring, kindness, and responsible actions. He/She has certainly not just taken someones dog willy nilly. To all those who keep saying give the dog back - you believe then that he/she should just hand over the dog to an empty house? or just throw the dog into a very ill man when that person is putting the welfare of the dog at risk??? (of course not deliberately).

I have 3 dogs and if I had dementia and didnt know what I was doing and ended up not looking after my dogs and causing them danger by leaving front doors open etc.... the "well" me (so to speak - I hope you follow) would be eternally grateful for an extremely kind person to step in and be concerned about the welfare of my beloved dogs. This man - if he was well - would probably be horrified his beloved dog was being put in danger.

Everything this extremely kind and caring person has done so far is hugely admirable - it is just a shame there are not more people out there willing to put such effort into doing the right thing - it is uplifting to see someone take the time to care.

Agreed totally. Thou the old man would probably be more horrified tohear that his pet was bring put down, or given away without his permission.

Jimmy Bottlehead

OP, I commend you on all you're doing, and on taking the dog's welfare into account - my girlfriend & I took in a dog about two years ago, and some people weren't very nice about us being so concerned for a dog that clearly wasn't looked after.

I think you're doing the right thing by following the official channels - as has been said, if you just chuck the dog back into an empty house, you don't know what could happen. He could be killed by car, bite a child, or end up blown up or set on fire by thugs. You just don't know, and the wee fella deserves to be kept safe until things develop.

I hope the elderly man returns soon, and that he's given the care he clearly needs. It's a tragic case for both he and the dog, but you're doing an amazing and selfless thing, so well done.

OldNotWIse

There are an awful lot of people saying how evil it is to take the mans dog away. Did anyone see the post that said the dog has been at the vets and in the pound a few times? Its only a matter of time before the dog ends up dead...and will be no good to the owner then either. OP I think you are doing the right thing and are to be commended for it. The reality is that (however it came to pass) the dog was allowed to roam the streets. The OP took the dog from immediate danger and has gone out of her way to contact the man/his family etc. Its not like she went into the house and stole the dog. If he'd been left on the street and seized by the warden, he'd be in the pound now anyway and the owner would have no rights to reclaim after 5 days.

mosi

Well, the man is back home, and I have spoken to his sister. She isn't young herself and I think that she finds the situation quite tough.
There were a few inconsistencies in what she was saying, although I when I spoke to her a second time, she seemed to open up a bit more. She is insistent that the dog be returned, although when the man goes into a home, she knows she will have to rehome him. She is interested in learning more about the options for the future when I meet her. Obviously, I'll have to hand the dog back over to her, at this stage I am legally obliged to. The situation is far from ideal, but we'll just have to see how things go. I have been in regular contact with the DSPCA over the situation, and they would be willing to send out an inspector. I'm in two minds as to whether I should go ahead with actually calling them out now straight away though. On the one hand, they could assess the situation themselves and be of some help to this man and his dog. On the other, it would be obvious that I had called them, and be detrimental to my efforts to cooperate with the family. I'll see how the meeting with the sister goes, we may be able to sort out something between ourselves regarding helping the man with the dog.
It's unclear whether the man has a lead for the dog, so I'll give them one of our spares. Hopefully, this incident may prove to be a wake up call to the family and I will emphasise how someone with more sinister intentions could easily pick up the dog if he's out on his own.
When this all happened, the neighbours made out that the man had no family living nearby. They also failed to contact me when the man came home which I don't think is right at all. We really were led to believe that this man had no support at all. The Public Health Nurse never passed my details on to the sister either

sambuka41

What a tough situation. You really have done so much for this family,you'd think the sister would be a little bit more appreciative of the fact that someone cared about her brother as well as his dog. :rolleyes:

Maybe the neighbours didn't contact you as they were hoping to leave the dog with you, where it would be safer?

Such a shame the PHN reacted in that way, there are some good ones out there, but unfortunately you came across one of the burned out ol hags (there are too many of them rocking around). Maybe highlight to the sister that the dog does pose a risk to her brother also, if he trips, or turns on him, if he escapes and the man goes wandering looking for him.

If she can't assure you that there will be something in place to protect both her brother and the dog, then I would be contacting DSPCA as well as the Elder Abuse officer, as living in those conditions is disgraceful, that man had been let down by his famliy and the PHN. (but thats just me, easier as I'm not in your shoes and known to the family)

mosi

Ok, job done.
I met the sister and the owner this afternoon. We had a chat and I feel so sad for that woman. She was in hospital recently and admitted that the situation is very tough. She agrees that the situation in the house has gotten out of hand, and she is only beginning to get on top of it again. She hopes to have the man in a home in about three months time. She has promised to stay in touch (I really hope she does - I have her details anyway though), and we will stay vigilant of the situation. She said she will ring me when the time comes, and I will help to find a home or rescue space for the dog.
I will hold off on the DSPCA inspection for the time being. I spoke to them again and they agreed that an inspection at this stage could be counterproductive. If the situation can be managed and if this lady feels she can contact me for help, then we may ultimately be able to work towards a solution. If I alienate these people, then they are not likely to let me help at all. Of course, if matters don't improve it is still definitely an option. I'll play it by ear and see how things go. They are at least aware of the situation and I can talk to them any time if necessary.
Thanks so much to all of you who have been supportive here. It has been such a difficult situation and has been very draining. I could never have handed the dog back directly to the man without investigating the situation. It would have been totally irresponsible. The outcome has maybe not been the most ideal, but was the only viable option in the end and I made every effort to sort out the situation. Hopefully we can move forward with things and monitor the situation to ensure the wellbeing of all involved.

Zapperzy

Well done Mosi! Others would have done what the PHN said and let him loose to find his own way home and kept their noses out but hopefully now both dog and man will get the help they need. Pat yourself on the back and have a large glass of wine tonight!

Tranceypoo

mosi, hats off to you, I really think you went above and beyond in what is clearly a very stressful and sad situation for the family and the dog. I hope that poor man gets the help he is entitled to and that the dog comes out of it ok. Please will you keep us updated?

Again, well done and good on you, I honestly don't think there's many people that would have gotten as involved as you have.

DBB

+1 on the above!
I've been meaning to post here a few times over the past few days to lend my support to you Mosi, you went above and beyond to come to what is for now the best outcome for ALL parties concerned. Yes, there are compromises, but that's life, and as it turns out everyone is catered for with the situation as it stands, and the dog has a safety net for the future, thanks to your efforts.
Well done!

westies4ever

you're a nice person mosi - ireland woud be a better place if there were more of your kind. well done.

mosi

Guys you'll never believe this, we're back to square one
I had asked some of the local dog owners to keep an eye out and drop the dog round to me if they find him on his own. Well, a few minutes ago, the OH got a call from a local who said he had found the dog heading down toward the main road (which is the opposite direction to the owner's house). The little fellow is here now.
I can't believe this has happened again so quickly

tipseymcT

Thats a shame after all the effort you put in.could you tell the mans sister that the dog found its own way back to you? She might agree to let you keep/rehome it. terriers usually do not have much road sense & its only a matter of time before he gets knocked down or stolen by a scumbag.

mosi

The OH called up to the man's house - the door was open again and he was there. He said that we have the dog and we will talk to him tomorrow, and to close his front door. The poor man said ok and thanks. He also said the dog got out and he couldn't get him back.
I will call the sister tomorrow and see what we can sort out. She agreed about how dangerous it is for the dog to roam - it's just that the poor man cannot cope. Of course, the man himself is in danger by leaving his front door open every time the dog escapes, so that is a huge issue that must be emphasised.
It's so, so sad. I was told that this man has been a dog lover all his life, now he can barely look after himself or his pet. It seems that, as he is said to be difficult, nobody really wants much to do with him. His sister said he would be lost without the dog, yet it is only a matter of time before something terrible happens and he will never see the dog again, nor know what happened to him. It was a real stroke of luck that this local man we had spoken to came across him.
We have a long night ahead of us. I don't want to have to play hardball with this poor woman by talking about bringing in the DSPCA/dog warden/HSE etc., but I will need to convince her about how serious this situation is for both the dog and her brother. I will talk to my vets and see what they can advise, seeing as they know the situation well.
There is no real ideal solution here. I would be happy to help in rehoming this dog. For us, a third dog has not been on the cards...the OH is even scared of fostering as failure is inevitable :rolleyes: - although for us to keep the dog would mean that he could be brought to visit the man. I don't think that is a viable option though, and I would rather not get into that mindset. I may suggest that if the dog is rehomed elsewhere, I will bring my terriers to visit this man a couple of times a week (I'd be happy to do so). Hopefully, the fact that this has happened just over 24 hours after the dog went home, will make the sister aware of how serious this issue is for all involved

Mo60

I have just read this thread from the beginning and now realise what a sad situation this is for all concerned. Such a shame for a man who in his own way loves his dog, but is unable to cope properly.

The way you have put yourself out for this man and his sister is admirable. It is people like you that restore my faith in human nature.

I hope everything turns out alright in the end.

mosi

Well, I said it would be a long night, and my head is well and truly wrecked.
I really believe that the best option for all is that the dog is taken out of that situation - however, I do not have the authority on this, and do not intend to take the law into my own hands. I still hope to find a good solution.
As I said, I hope to be able to convince the sister to rehome the dog - for all their sakes. However, I need to be prepared for a negative response, and I may have to put forward the other scenarios again.
One thing I would love to know is if a pound is obliged to return a dog to a repeat offender? I do not want to get them involved but I would like to know what the law is in that regard, so as I can pass on that information. I did speak to the pound about the situation the first time round - not to give them the dog but to cover my legal options. The girl there was quite helpful and offered to contact rescues if the sister let me take the dog. She also said to contact them if I found the dog again. Now, I really want to avoid that at all costs. I just need as much info as possible so as to be able to try and approach the matter properly with the family.

sambuka41

mosi wrote: »

There is no real ideal solution here. I would be happy to help in rehoming this dog. For us, a third dog has not been on the cards...the OH is even scared of fostering as failure is inevitable :rolleyes: - although for us to keep the dog would mean that he could be brought to visit the man. I don't think that is a viable option though, and I would rather not get into that mindset.

To be honest I wouldn't do that, it is unlikely that if he has a dementia that he would have the capacity to understand that the dog is no longer his, it could upset him when you go to leave

What a sad situation, fair play to you for taking so much time to try to do the right thing. Sure at this stage you could keep the dog and play ignorant but you aren't doing that, seriously fair play. There is a real risk to this man if he is leaving his door open, it sounds like a few people (neighbours,gardai, nurses) are aware of this situation, it is only a matter of time before the local scumbag knows this man leaves the door open when the dog gets out. :mad:

I can understand that the situation is tough for his sister, but she really needs to cop on now, leaving the dog with him while he puts himself in real danger is negligent at best, closer to abuse. You have done so much, but maybe highlight the concern to the PHN and tell her you'll go to the Elder Abuse officer if she doesn't act? SHe may also be able to advice the family to rehome the dog.

**Vai**

Dog needs to be out of the situation, well done mosi. The man's sister can look after him Im sure.

Tranceypoo

Oh Mosi, that's just awful, it's so sad that this poor man has more or less been left to his own devices, what the hell is the PHN actually doing, this man is in danger really isn't he, I mean leaving his door open for anyone to come in and do God knows what, he could wander anywhere in any kind of mental state, it's just unbelievable in this day and age that most people seem to just be turning a blind eye and passing the buck!

I really don't know what to suggest about the dog, I mean if you get the sister to agree with you rehoming it, will he just get another dog and again it's back to square one?

You must just be so frustrated and fed up at this stage with the situation and feel like you're getting nowhere, I really wish I had some sensible advice but I don't but again the way you and your oh have taken this on is really admirable to say the least.

mosi

Well, the latest is that both the vets and myself have spoken to the sister, trying to persuade her to rehome the dog.
She admits herself that it is probably the best option, and will call me back either this evening or tomorrow with a final decision. I hope that it is the right one, otherwise I will be forced to get the DSPCA involved. The dog is still here. It is very stressful for all concerned and I think that this poor woman is almost at the end of her tether with the situation, so I don't want to cause any unnecessary distress. I think that she is getting very little help. She has her own health issues, and admits that she would find it difficult to keep the dog herself, although she is very fond of him.
There is the danger of them getting another dog, but I hope common sense would prevail, particularly as he is due to go to a home in a few months time. However, that is something that may or may not happen - for now, I can only deal with the situation that is happening now.
I am going to start making enquiries with a number of rescues to see if a place can be lined up in the event of her deciding to let the dog go. Having thought it through, we are really not in a position to take on another dog...finances, time, space etc means that we have enough on our hands with our two.
If any of you involved with a rescue think that you may be able to offer a space in this event, please PM me.

mosi

As expected, the sister has agreed to let the dog be rehomed. After loads of phone calls, I may have found him a place at a well known rescue. I am having him neutered tomorrow, and will meet with the sister to make final arrangements and give her a few numbers re support for her situation. If all goes to plan, transport will be sorted for later in the week, as the rescue is not in Dublin. Hopefully, this means that the little fellow will get the good home he deserves.

ABajaninCork

I've been following this thread, but didn't feel able to offer advice.

I'm so glad that a nice home's been found for the poor fella. And I also hope that things improve for the poor owner, God love him...

A happy ending. Well done Mosi!

mosi

Well, the little fellow has been neutered but his rescue space has fallen through, as I learned that the organisation involved does not homecheck. I may be able to rehome him through a rescue person that is personally known to me and who does great work, while I know of one or two other good rescues to contact. Ideally, I would like to find a home for him myself and will vet potential adopters as a rescue would.

magentas

Fair play Mosi, I 've been following this thread and you handled the whole situation tremendously! You are clearly a very kind and caring person and you did a great thing here. Hats off to you;)

magentas

So you're definately not keeping the little fella then?!:D

I've a feeling you'll be a bit like an over-protective parent now and no home will be good enough!:p:D

DBB

Mosi, once again, fair play for putting so much effort into this little dog!
One word of advice... If you're rehoming him yourself, I'd be inclined to type up a simple release letter which the sister can sign, as an agent for her brother, to consent to you rehoming the dog. Under normal situations, simply handing the dog over is legally enough to relinquish ownership, but this situation is a little more complicated... So I think you should cover yourself with a simple letter which signs the dog into your care.
Well done again!

OldNotWIse

mosi wrote: »

Well, the little fellow has been neutered but his rescue space has fallen through, as I learned that the organisation involved does not homecheck. I may be able to rehome him through a rescue person that is personally known to me and who does great work, while I know of one or two other good rescues to contact. Ideally, I would like to find a home for him myself and will vet potential adopters as a rescue would.

You could try dogs aid? afaik they will not euthanaise a healthy animal (be careful because some of the "better known" ones have been known to do this as a control measure or in place of treatment/for perceived "sociability" problems)

Good that he got through the op

mosi

magentas wrote: »

So you're definately not keeping the little fella then?!

I've a feeling you'll be a bit like an over-protective parent now and no home will be good enough!

Much as I would love to, I don't think it's feasible. Finances are tight and won't get better any time soon with me going back to college. Also, college will mean some travel, leaving the OH to mind the dogs by himself.
I am going into overprotective mode, and have been stressing myself out a bit over it. I've really gotten very fond of the little fellow.

DBB wrote: »

Mosi, once again, fair play for putting so much effort into this little dog!
One word of advice... If you're rehoming him yourself, I'd be inclined to type up a simple release letter which the sister can sign, as an agent for her brother, to consent to you rehoming the dog. Under normal situations, simply handing the dog over is legally enough to relinquish ownership, but this situation is a little more complicated... So I think you should cover yourself with a simple letter which signs the dog into your care.
Well done again!

I've already been advised to do that and plan to have a letter ready when I meet the sister again.

OldNotWIse wrote: »

You could try dogs aid? afaik they will not euthanaise a healthy animal (be careful because some of the "better known" ones have been known to do this as a control measure or in place of treatment/for perceived "sociability" problems)

Good that he got through the op

I've been in touch and I know they're quite full up at the mo. I too have heard about certain well known rescues doing that. It's such a minefield, especially with so many having to send dogs to the UK. I have no real issue with that in itself (except that it's sad that it has come to this in this country) but in some cases there are questions over the rescues that dogs are being sent to. I may have something sorted for the little fellow though, through a family friend that rescues on a small scale and who is very particular about who she works with. It would mean travel but I would know exactly which rescue he ends up with. I know from past experience of dogs that have gotten fabulous homes through this lady and her contacts.
I can still try to rehome him myself, but I'm a bit unsure about going about this. I have had a few people say "they know someone who wants a dog" and, if one of these could work out, it could be great - although I may offend a few people with interrogation. I had thought that, in this case, I would do an adoption contract but as I am not a rescue organisation, I don't know if that would be taken seriously by potential adopters. One friend of mine has been looking for a dog for a little while now (since before this whole saga), but he has young children, including a baby, and two very boisterous boys, so I'm not sure if this would be a good match...they may be better off trying to find a rescue puppy. They are lovely people but not necessarily the best for this dog.

I guess these are the dilemmas that people in rescue have to face all the time. I know there are never any guarantees, even with the best safety nets, and that a lot will depend upon my gut instinct in the end. I feel worried about him going through the stress of a rescue centre (albeit one with good facilities and strict rehoming procedures), and I am also worried about rehoming him to an individual who may not be suitable, despite appearances and my best efforts. I then start feeling guilty about not being able to take him on myself but then try and remind myself that I did not create the situation in the first place. There was whoever it was that owned him before, when he ended up in the pound from which the man's sister adopted him. Then there is her decision to get her elderly, unwell brother a dog without being able to guarantee family support or adequate care. I know it's a story that is constantly being played out across the country, that rescues are having to deal with and pick up the pieces