Got stung buying car. Can I do anything?

RogieBear

Hey Lads,

Posting on behalf of a family member who got stung buying their first car. They bought the car from a dealer on donedeal (also listed on Carzone). They ran a car history check on the websites motorcheck.ie, carhistorycheck.ie and mywheels.ie and all was fine, so he didn't get it checked by a mechanic. They paid cash and only have a receipt for the deposit which was paid.

After having the car for a couple of weeks, it stalled when the family member was driving it around a housing estate, and after having it checked by a mechanic, the mechanic said that it had been in an accident a couple of months earlier, and was not roadworthy. The mechanic sent it to an engineer who said that it's beyond repair. The mechanic then called the dealer looking to get our money back, but the dealer then texted to say that the car was sold as seen.

I was looking to go to the small claims court, but the dealer is not registered with the Companies Registration Offfice so not sure what I can do. Our solicitor said that if we were to sue the dealer it would cost around €20k, but the price of the car was only 1/10th of that, so it's not really worth it.

Anybody have any ideas as to what can be done?

slimjimmc

If the car was sold in a dangerous state the "sold as seen" clause won't protect the dealer, it is an offence to sell a dangerous vehicle to a consumer without making it absolutely clear the car is not to be used on the road. The onus is on the dealer to prove he done this.

If the dealer is trading under his own name then he doesn't need to be registered with the CRO.

In reality I doubt there's much if anything you can do to get the money back, your family member doesn't even have proof of purchase.

RogieBear

slimjimmc wrote: »

If the car was sold in a dangerous state the "sold as seen" clause won't protect the dealer, it is an offence to sell a dangerous vehicle to a consumer without making it absolutely clear the car is not to be used on the road. The onus is on the dealer to prove he done this.

If the dealer is trading under his own name then he doesn't need to be registered with the CRO.

In reality I doubt there's much if anything you can do to get the money back, your family member doesn't even have proof of purchase.

Thanks for the response. So, if the dealer is trading under his own name, can I not just give the name of the dealer to the small claims court, and they can then investigate?

Although we don't have proof of purchase, the dealer signed the log book which is now in my family members name, so can this be used to show proof of purchase?

slimjimmc

The SCC don't investigate, it's a court so they just make rulings based on the evidence presented. The claimant has to provide his evidence and statements, the defendant likewise. You have to do your own legwork.

Yeah, the logbook would show that registered ownership was transferred and I doubt anyone would not accept that a sale occurred.

CarrickMcJoe

Small claims court, car sold was not fit for purpose.

RogieBear

slimjimmc wrote: »

The SCC don't investigate, it's a court so they just make rulings based on the evidence presented. The claimant has to provide his evidence and statements, the defendant likewise. You have to do your own legwork.

Yeah, the logbook would show that registered ownership was transferred and I doubt anyone would not accept that a sale occurred.

The family member filled in the online SCC form and paid the fee, but we got an email back saying that there was an error on the form. So, the next day, we called the SCC and we gave them the dealers name, but they said that he is not registered so we don't have a claim

They also said that we need to find the name that the dealer was trading under before we would have a case.

Does this lad have a premises etc etc etc etc?
If it's some lad selling cars from his house in an un official fashion and they're death traps I wouldn't hesitate in shopping him to revenue folks etc. the threat of that might yield more results than actually doing it though tbh.
The chap could well be a scumbag too though so you'd need to consider all that too.

Few friends over for a nice chat about getting your two grand back and him taking the car back would be the easiest solution if you had a few friends that he wouldn't want to be chatting with for too long.

RogieBear

RoverJames wrote: »

Does this lad have a premises etc etc etc etc?
If it's some lad selling cars from his house in an un official fashion and they're death traps I wouldn't hesitate in shopping him to revenue folks etc. the threat of that might yield more results than actually doing it though tbh.
The chap could well be a scumbag too though so you'd need to consider all that too.

Few friends over for a nice chat about getting your two grand back and him taking the car back would be the easiest solution if you had a few friends that he wouldn't want to be chatting with for too long.

Yes he has a premises, and has other cars listed for sale on carzone. He definitely didnt tell my family member that the car was not in a roadworthy condition before we bought it, and when we asked the dealer what there anything wrong with it, he said no.

Fortunately (for the dealer), I wouldn't consider the easiest solution you mention above :cool:

rebelccfc

where is the dealer located?

matt-dublin

Why didn't they get a receipt for the car, did they just handover cash, jump in and drive off??

RogieBear

rebelccfc wrote: »

where is the dealer located?

Dealer is located in Dublin 24.

RogieBear

matt-dublin wrote: »

Why didn't they get a receipt for the car, did they just handover cash, jump in and drive off??

The family member gave the dealer our home address and he came with the car, gave him the money for it, and then the dealer got a lift back to the garage, no receipt :mad:

little swift

find out if it was wrote off by any ins company after the accident,and if was that car should have never been on the road or been put up for sale.

RogieBear

little swift wrote: »

find out if it was wrote off by the ins company after the accident,and if was that car should have never been on the road or been put up for sale.

Do you know how we can check this? The family member checked some car history check websites before buying the car, and as far as I know, there was nothing about this.

ResearchWill

RogieBear wrote: »

The family member filled in the online SCC form and paid the fee, but we got an email back saying that there was an error on the form. So, the next day, we called the SCC and we gave them the dealers name, but they said that he is not registered so we don't have a claim

They also said that we need to find the name that the dealer was trading under before we would have a case.

Do you now the guys name, if he is a sole trader trading under his own name say John Smith then just sue him in that name. When did ye call to SCC.

RogieBear

ResearchWill wrote: »

Do you now the guys name, if he is a sole trader trading under his own name say John Smith then just sue him in that name. When did ye call to SCC.

I know the name of the guy that sold me the car but it's not the same as the name of the dealer. So who do I sue? Do I put the name of the name of the guy that sold me the car and say that he is an employee of the dealers name?

The family member was speaking to the SCC about 2 weeks ago, but I'm looking after it now, and trying to find out if we an get the money back.

ResearchWill

RogieBear wrote: »

I know the name of the guy that sold me the car but it's not the same as the name of the dealer. So who do I sue? Do I put the name of the name of the guy that sold me the car and say that he is an employee of the dealers name?

The family member was speaking to the SCC about 2 weeks ago, but I'm looking after it now, and trying to find out if we an get the money back.

Then you sue the dealer, find out who the owner is, ask around get a business card. Then sue the owner, unless you think it's the guy working there doing a sale on the side then find out his name and sue him.

RogieBear

ResearchWill wrote: »

Then you sue the dealer, find out who the owner is, ask around get a business card. Then sue the owner, unless you think it's the guy working there doing a sale on the side then find out his name and sue him.

Just so I'm clear, if the name of the dealer is say John Smith
Motors and I don't find out who the owner is, can I put John Smith Motors as the respondent on the SCC claim form?

Henry Ford III

You sue the person named on the receipt for the deposit as the seller.

RogieBear

RogieBear wrote: »

.............. The mechanic sent it to an engineer who said that it's beyond repair. The mechanic then called the dealer looking to get our money back, but the dealer then texted to say that the car was sold as seen..............

.........


Is the text and phone call the only contact ye've had with this a**hole since the matter developed?

I'd get the engineers report in writing and call over to him in person, here you go Fred, in black and white the car was a sh1tter not fit for sale.

Gauge his reaction and go from there.

Is the dealer seemingly reputable outwardly?

RogieBear

ResearchWill wrote: »

Then you sue the dealer, find out who the owner is, ask around get a business card. Then sue the owner, unless you think it's the guy working there doing a sale on the side then find out his name and sue him.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You sue the person named on the receipt for the deposit as the seller.

That's great. Thanks for your help. But when I am submitting a claim to the SCC, do I class the respondent as an individual, as the dealer is not registered with the CRO?

little swift

RogieBear wrote: »

Do you know how we can check this? The family member checked some car history check websites before buying the car, and as far as I know, there was nothing about this.

no sorry i dont, other than the websites you mention,http://www.motorcheck.ie/faq/has-the-vehicle-been-written-off and they are'nt a 100% ,

Jarren

Have you tried here?

http://www.solocheck.ie/

RogieBear

RoverJames wrote: »

.........


Is the text and phone call the only contact ye've had with this a**hole since the matter developed?

I'd get the engineers report in writing and call over to him in person, here you go Fred, in black and white the car was a sh1tter not fit for sale.

Gauge his reaction and go from there.

Is the dealer seemingly reputable outwardly?

What happened was that our mechanic called the dealer and he said that he will check with the owner if we could get a refund, but then we got a text some hours later saying that the owner saying that it was "sold as seen". That's the only contact we have had with them.

We have the engineers report in writing and I had a look at it today, and basically says what's wrong with the car and that it was not of merchantible quality and the sale of the car contravenes with he Sale of Goods and Services Act.

RogieBear

little swift wrote: »

no sorry i dont, other than the websites you mention,http://www.motorcheck.ie/faq/has-the-vehicle-been-written-off and they are'nt a 100% ,

Thanks for that link. At the end of that page it says:

"Please Note: In Ireland insurance companies do not disclose data on category C & D write offs."

For does that mean that I wouldnt show up on this report if even it had been written off?

RogieBear

Jarren wrote: »

Have you tried here?

http://www.solocheck.ie/

Thanks for the link. Just had a quick check and can't find the dealers name nor the name of the person that sold us the car. Does that mean anything if I can't find anything?

johnner09

RogieBear wrote: »

Dealer is located in Dublin 24.

does he sell his cars from a bungalow along a back mountain road??

little swift

RogieBear wrote: »

Thanks for that link. At the end of that page it says:

"Please Note: In Ireland insurance companies do not disclose data on category C & D write offs."

For does that mean that I wouldnt show up on this report if even it had been written off?

it means that c-d can be repaired and sold on, they were'nt classed as write offs as such

dharn

disappointing to see that these car check companies are not foolproof, if the op did as he says he would have spent 30 to 40 euros x 3 and still got caught with a write off

I think it's more disappointing to see someone spend any money on these checks and not get the car physically checked out. It doesn't take much to write off a €2000 car and plenty of them are slapped back together.

carbon nanotube

i did a check on the car i got..

should mention damage.


Registration Plate Transfer Security Stolen Finance Damage Theft Inspections

Recorded Not Recorded

No No No No No No

MAKE HONDA
MODEL ACCORD VTEC EXECUTIVE It is important to check all the vehicle details match the V5 (Vehicle
Registration Document). If not we recommend you query the
discrepancy with the vendor
BODY TYPE 4 Door Saloon
COLOUR SILVER
TRANSMISSION 6 Speed Manual Petrol
ENGINE CAPACITY (CC) 2354

carbon nanotube

carbon nanotube wrote: »

...........

should mention damage. ...........

why should it?

mhigh86

Hi james, that sounds like a raw deal. I would advise you to bring all the info into the citizens information office, they will point you in the right direction, they will also make inquires for you and will contact the dealer/seller. Good Luck with it....

carbon nanotube

RoverJames wrote: »

why should it?

? my report did.

thats the whole point of them.

Senna

Was the advert on carzone listed from a dealer?
Do you have a copy of the advert? (can it be got?)
If the car is listed by the dealer then its irrelevant wither it was sold on behalf of someone else. If the dealer isn't registered then a threat of a call to revenue might work.
Dont let them fob you off, if you cant go down the SCC's its because the dealer is hiding from revenue and it will cost them a lot more than €2000 to sort that out.

RogieBear

johnner09 wrote: »

does he sell his cars from a bungalow along a back mountain road??

Not sure to be honest as the family member never visited the premises. Instead the person from the dealer came to our house with the car.

RogieBear

little swift wrote: »

it means that c-d can be repaired and sold on, they were'nt classed as write offs as such

Thanks for explaining that. Unfortunately, the family member seems to have deleted the car history reports from from their email, so I can't check this information, but they are sure that the reports came back clear.

RogieBear

RoverJames wrote: »

I think it's more disappointing to see someone spend any money on these checks and not get the car physically checked out. It doesn't take much to write off a €2000 car and plenty of them are slapped back together.

I completely agree with you RoverJames about not getting the car physically checked. However in their defence (not that I agree with it), the family member was a first time buyer and believed that because the checks came back clear that the car was fine.

RogieBear

carbon nanotube wrote: »

i did a check on the car i got..

should mention damage.


Registration Plate Transfer Security Stolen Finance Damage Theft Inspections

Recorded Not Recorded

No No No No No No

MAKE HONDA
MODEL ACCORD VTEC EXECUTIVE It is important to check all the vehicle details match the V5 (Vehicle
Registration Document). If not we recommend you query the
discrepancy with the vendor
BODY TYPE 4 Door Saloon
COLOUR SILVER
TRANSMISSION 6 Speed Manual Petrol
ENGINE CAPACITY (CC) 2354

Thanks for your input carbon nanotube. Unfortunately, the member seems to have deleted the results of the car history checks, so I'm not to check if there was any damage.

RogieBear

mhigh86 wrote: »

Hi james, that sounds like a raw deal. I would advise you to bring all the info into the citizens information office, they will point you in the right direction, they will also make inquires for you and will contact the dealer/seller. Good Luck with it....

Thanks for your reply. I will contact Citizens Information and the SCC tomorrow, and see what they say.

RogieBear

Senna wrote: »

Was the advert on carzone listed from a dealer?
Do you have a copy of the advert? (can it be got?)
If the car is listed by the dealer then its irrelevant wither it was sold on behalf of someone else. If the dealer isn't registered then a threat of a call to revenue might work.
Dont let them fob you off, if you cant go down the SCC's its because the dealer is hiding from revenue and it will cost them a lot more than €2000 to sort that out.

Yes the advert was listed on donedeal from a dealer, and as far as I know we have a copy of the advert. The person who came to our house with the car was a salesman who works for the dealer.

Just in relation to not being registered, slimjimmc's post on the first page of this thread says that if the dealer is trading under his own name (which applies int this case), then he doesn't need to registered with the Revenue.

There is no way I will let them fob me off.

djimi

RogieBear wrote: »

What happened was that our mechanic called the dealer and he said that he will check with the owner if we could get a refund, but then we got a text some hours later saying that the owner saying that it was "sold as seen". That's the only contact we have had with them.

We have the engineers report in writing and I had a look at it today, and basically says what's wrong with the car and that it was not of merchantible quality and the sale of the car contravenes with he Sale of Goods and Services Act.

If the car was bought from a dealer then the dealer is your only point of contact, and this situation is between you and him only. The "original seller" is not your problem, and its up to the dealer to deal with them, but only after you have been sorted. As far as you are concerned it is the dealer you are persuing, not the "original seller", and make sure that the dealer is fully aware of this. He sold you the car; he cannot try and act like a middle man with no responsibility now that the car turned out to be a lemon.

RogieBear

djimi wrote: »

If the car was bought from a dealer then the dealer is your only point of contact, and this situation is between you and him only. The "original seller" is not your problem, and its up to the dealer to deal with them, but only after you have been sorted. As far as you are concerned it is the dealer you are persuing, not the "original seller", and make sure that the dealer is fully aware of this. He sold you the car; he cannot try and act like a middle man with no responsibility now that the car turned out to be a lemon.

The only contact that we have had with the dealer was when our mechanic called him and told him what's wrong with the car. The mechanic was then told that the issue would be checked with the owner of the dealership and not the "original seller" of the car. The family member then got a text from the salesperson from the dealer saying that the car was "sold as seen" and therefore we would not be getting the money back.

I have not contacted the dealer since the text message. As far as I'm aware, there was never any contact made with the "original seller", and like you say, the issue is between us and the dealer who sold us the car.

lau1247

RogieBear wrote: »

Thanks for explaining that. Unfortunately, the family member seems to have deleted the car history reports from from their email, so I can't check this information, but they are sure that the reports came back clear.

another idea is to phone the check site. Give ref number of the purchase and explained the accidental delete.

or maybe buy another copy?

result should be the same.

just a thought

RogieBear

lau1247 wrote: »

another idea is to phone the check site. Give ref number of the purchase and explained the accidental delete.

or maybe buy another copy?

result should be the same.

just a thought

Thanks lau1247. I will contact the check site and see what they say, but I dont think he has a reference number of the purchase, except for the registration of the car. Would it be a good idea to wait until I'm certain we have a case before buying another copy of the report?

Tea_Bag

name and shame OP!

RogieBear

Tea_Bag wrote: »

name and shame OP!

Apologies, but I'm not familiar with the rules regarding naming and shaming on here. Do I need permission from the Moderators?

Seth Brundle

Tea_Bag wrote: »

name and shame OP!

We have one side of a story that looks like it will end up with some form of legal action. If boards are dragged to court for libel, are you going to pay their legal costs?

Seth Brundle

RogieBear wrote: »

Tea_Bag wrote: »

name and shame OP!

Apologies, but I'm not familiar with the rules regarding naming and shaming on here. Do I need permission from the Moderators?

Don't name and shame. It's libellous and you may also prejudice your own case against them

Tea_Bag

good point. its **** knowing that these cowboys are still selling cars as we speak though.

Backtowhite

Have you checked to see if any dealers are registered at that address?

Have you checked the sellers name to see of he is a director of any company?

PM the name and address of dealer and I can check it on vision-net for you of you need