Will just water work as coolant?

biko

Ok after chatting to a mate about coolant and not agreeing whether pure water will cool the engine just as well as 50/50 mix with coolant.

I say just water will work just as well or even better than a mix.
Mind this is for summer use only. We're not talking temperatures close or below zero.

Apparently coolant mix will only increase the boiling point by 10c or so?
Yeah, coolant has anti-rust qualities but does it cool better than only water?

WAter alone is fine for cooling.

Matt Simis

Water has higher thermal capacity than coolant (and virtually everything else you could try) so it will transfer heat better than coolant. However its not worth the risk with increases corrosion or micro bacterial growth (if left sitting) or in the case of some cars (BMWs for one) over pressurisation due to lower boiling point.

Coolant under pressure has a boiling point lift of 25c over water btw (the 10c or less is under no pressure).

dr.fuzzenstein

Matt Simis wrote: »

Water has higher thermal capacity than coolant (and virtually everything else you could try) so it will transfer heat better than coolant. However its not worth the risk with increases corrosion or micro bacterial growth (if left sitting) or in the case of some cars (BMWs for one) over pressurisation due to lower boiling point.

Coolant under pressure has a boiling point lift of 25c over water btw (the 10c or less is under no pressure).

+1
Coolant has corrosion inhibitors and additives that will prevent deposits forming in your engine and radiator.
If your rad blew and all you could get your hands on was water, it would be fine to get you home, but I would exchange it for coolant the next day.
Limescale deposits have fecked many a radiator, nevermind the rest of the engine.

fasttalkerchat

Distilled water during the summer is totally fine temporarily.

corktina

OSI wrote: »

It'll work, but it's not the best solution.

can you have a solution of water? Perhaps if it was diluted it might help....

dr.fuzzenstein

corktina wrote: »

can you have a solution of water? Perhaps if it was diluted it might help....

You need this, instant pool water:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpQej7M_HXw

fasttalkerchat

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You need this, instant pool water:

Dead leaves included!

biko

Matt Simis wrote: »

However its not worth the risk with increases corrosion or micro bacterial growth (if left sitting)

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Limescale deposits have fecked many a radiator, nevermind the rest of the engine.

Hmm, another use for vinegar - coolant flush!

Actually documented here lol http://www.ehow.com/how_7469106_use-vinegar-engine-coolant.html

dr.fuzzenstein

biko wrote: »

Hmm, another use for vinegar - coolant flush!

Actually documented here lol http://www.ehow.com/how_7469106_use-vinegar-engine-coolant.html

Thank you sir for that! I was contemplating just such a move, but did not know what to use, descaler for kettles might be a bit harsh, but this sounds perfect.
It's a bit late for the existing rad, it's suffering from finrot.

101sean

I tried to clean a 101 rad out once with what a mate who runs a power station said they used to clean the boilers with, it was basically acetic acid.

Unfortunately the rad was so badly scaled it wouldn't shift it, had to buy a new one. I lived in an urban area then with really hard water so I used to save the water out of the condensing tumble drier for topping up. I'm now a culchie so have a 2000gal rainwater tank out back I use

You definitely don't want to run for a prolonged period without coolant in an aluminium engine, the corrosion inhibitors are as important.

Popoutman

Though coolant has a slightly lower SHC than water, the higher boiling point of the correct mixture should allow more heat to be carried away from the block at the same pressure, than a pure water system at the same pressure.

If at all possible, use a coolant mixture instead of pure water.

ValerieR

I wouldn't use vinegar in the cooling system of an older car... I'd be afraid it might dislodge stuff from joints and cause leaks to appear.

dr.fuzzenstein

Popoutman wrote: »

Though coolant has a slightly lower SHC than water, the higher boiling point of the correct mixture should allow more heat to be carried away from the block at the same pressure, than a pure water system at the same pressure.

If at all possible, use a coolant mixture instead of pure water.

Well that depends whether your coolant is ready mixed or concentrate.
I usually buy concentrate and mix as required with water, but I'm beginning to think that carries it's own problems, since her rad has clogged up with limescale and those deposits looks suspiciously like the ones found in our kettle.
Next step would be to buy de-naturalised water to mix with the coolant, or just ready mixed coolant and be done with all that malarkey.

101sean

101sean wrote: »

I tried to clean a 101 rad out once with what a mate who runs a power station said they used to clean the boilers with, it was basically acetic acid.
............

.... off topic
But a properly treated boiler should never require cleaning like that, whatever water treatment company has the contract there are doing something wrong or their advice is being ignored
BAck to car rads, the disadvantage of de i water is that its more corrosive.

biko

Another point for coolant mix is that water alone doesn't have enough long-term lubricating qualities for the various moving parts inside the cooling system, like the water pump.
We were going to use vinegar for a flush but the rad is very old and as said: the deposits inside might actually help keeping the thing leak free

OSI

OSI wrote: »

Aren't you supposed to use Distilled water anyway?

Ideally but if you have soft enough water that'll do grand. As its a closed system its not overly problematic to use hard water, the deposits seen in kettles etc are after multiple cycles. There wouldn't be a lot of potential deposits in a coolant system volume of hard water, some, but not a lot.

biko

Distilled is recommended by most manufacturers, of course, but a lot of people just go with tap or the water hose at the garage.

dr.fuzzenstein

Just looking this up a bit, you can get deionized water to fill your rad, it's not necessarily distilled, but will have a lot of impurities removed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purified_water

De i water is sold in most motor factors cheaply enough, as someone mentioned above the stuff out of the tumble dryer is fine for rads.

Ardent

What's the impact of not using distilled water and using, say, bottled water or even tap water?

Edit: Apologies, I see it's already been discussed above.

In conjunction with coolant containing corrosion inhibitor the impact would be negligible as tis a closed system.

SilverBell

biko wrote: »

Another point for coolant mix is that water alone doesn't have enough long-term lubricating qualities for the various moving parts inside the cooling system, like the water pump.

I cant think of this being an issue at all. I'd have thought the water pump bearings are lubricated by the oil or grease inside its own sealed bearings.

The pump impeller itself will not need lubrication.

biko

Just saw this about racing cars only using water and water wetter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pApWgZdozQA

SilverBell

biko wrote: »

Just saw this about racing cars only using water and water wetter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pApWgZdozQA

Very interesting. I think this would only be good where boiling of the coolant its taking place, and the results he quotes in the video seem to bear this out.

The surfactants in the water help in the formation of bubble during nucleation. However, nucleate boiling is probably best avoided in an engine cooling system. I guess it probably does happen in some cases but the nucleated bubbles are probably recondensed into the nearby coolant water stream.

I'm not sure what accounts for the greater increase in pressure in a cars cooling system when hot, the expansion of water and gas (the little bit of air in most coolant tanks) or if there is also a degree of nucleation with vapour generation which also contributes to a pressure increase?

Anyway, I guess this product will be of little use unless you have a V8 chevy powered motor which is at full load under the searing heat of the Irish sun.

Matt Simis

biko wrote: »

Just saw this about racing cars only using water and water wetter.

Ive been using Redline's Water Wetter in cars and PCs for a decade now, its quite good. You can buy it at Couture Auto in Dunboyne.

SilverBell wrote: »

Anyway, I guess this product will be of little use unless you have a V8 chevy powered motor which is at full load under the searing heat of the Irish sun.

Any performance engine would benefit. The BMW S50/S54 (M3's) and Audi turbo's are some obvious Euro benefactors of it. I use it with Coolant of course, as the bottle suggests.

SilverBell

Matt Simis wrote: »

Ive been using Redline's Water Wetter in cars and PCs for a decade now, its quite good. You can buy it at Couture Auto in Dunboyne.



Any performance engine would benefit. The BMW S50/S54 (M3's) and Audi turbo's are some obvious Euro benefactors of it. I use it with Coolant of course, as the bottle suggests.

Cool, did you notice any difference with it as opposed to other coolants you used before?