Great team(s) not to win All Irelands

teednab-el

For me:

Football:

Mayo 1996-1997 very unlucky not to win. A bounce of a hard ball literally to pop over bar and force game to replay in 1996 final.


Hurling:

Limerick 1994-1996 definitely left the 1994 All Ireland after them. A great team that didnt win the big prize.

Galway 2001-2005 Good victories over Kilkenny in two semis but fell short in the finals.Should have won 2001 All Ireland I feel.

Waterford 2006-2008 Dont know what happened Waterford on those years but they left at least 1 All Ireland after them I reckon.

Syferus

Roscommon 1977-1980. Dermot Earley is surely the finest player never to win a senior All-Ireland. That 1980 team was loaded with talent, Tony McManus, Harry Keegan and Pat Lindsay would saunter onto any list of the best players Connacht has ever produced. They knocked at the door for years before 1980, winning the league the previous year, and Kerry were there for the taking after we raced to a 1-2 to 0-0 lead in the final. The fact that Kerry team were well on their way to becoming the greatest of all-time tells you just how good Roscommon were.

Dermot put it perfectly - "the fear of losing overtook the desire to win".

J Cheever Loophole

Syferus wrote: »

Roscommon 1977-1980. Dermot Earley is surely the finest player never to win a senior All-Ireland. That 1980 team was loaded with talent, Tony McManus, Harry Keegan and Pat Lindsay would saunter onto any list of the best players Connacht has ever produced. They knocked at the door for years before 1980, winning the league the previous year, and Kerry were there for the taking after we raced to a 1-2 to 0-0 lead in the final. The fact that Kerry team were well on their way to becoming the greatest of all-time tells you just how good Roscommon were.

Dermot put it perfectly - "the fear of losing overtook the desire to win".

Youse had a very good team indeed, although as great a player as Dermot Earley was, I'd guess everyone would have their own ideas of the greatest player never to have won an All Ireland.

The Roscommon performance in the 1980 Final left many in Armagh thinking that we ourselves let slip a great chance that year - we lost a commanding lead after midfielder Colm McKinstry had to leave the field due to injury, and he was replaced by Brian Hughes who was moved from full forward (where he was having a stormer on Pat Lindsay) to midfield, and our game fell apart. We ended up going down by six.

MfMan

Syferus wrote: »

Roscommon 1977-1980. Dermot Earley is surely the finest player never to win a senior All-Ireland. That 1980 team was loaded with talent, Tony McManus, Harry Keegan and Pat Lindsay would saunter onto any list of the best players Connacht has ever produced. They knocked at the door for years before 1980, winning the league the previous year, and Kerry were there for the taking after we raced to a 1-2 to 0-0 lead in the final. The fact that Kerry team were well on their way to becoming the greatest of all-time tells you just how good Roscommon were.

Dermot put it perfectly - "the fear of losing overtook the desire to win".

Agree with all of that, though from what I recall of highlights I saw sometime ago, Dermot had an off-day that day from the placed ball, which was oh-so costly. They also had 2 great clashes with Armagh in the '77 semi, with the latter just scraping through after a replay.

It was said Galway '71 to '74 were good enough to have won at least one. I always felt the hurlers were good enough in '97 to have won it but an injury early in the season to Mike Coleman coupled with running into a KK team with the advantage of the back-door route in the qualifier in Thurles did for us. I could have laughingly strangled Phelim Murphy, Joe McDonagh and all others in the county who voted for that rule that afternoon. Set Galway hurling back further than ever.

Clareman

I would say the Clare team of the late 70s, they won a couple of leagues and were widely regarded as 1 of the best teams in the country, they ran into a brilliant Cork team at the same time.

The Limerick team of the mid 90s, the '94 All Ireland Final will go down in history, '96 was also a great opportunity for them, they got caught up in the turmoil of the late 90s and disappeared for a while, the 3 Under 21 teams should/could have led to great things.

The Waterford team from '98 to '08. I don't want to harp on about the past, but if the first Munster final was a result rather than a draw I do believe that Clare would have won at least 1 more All Ireland and Waterford would have won a couple of Ireland's also. IMVHO, 2002 was a massive opportunity lost for them

Stinicker

Quite alot of the Cork football team from 1998-2005 gave great performances but never went all the way. Colin Corkery was a true Cork stalwart and a good sportsman, he deserved a Celtic cross for sure.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

teednab-el wrote: »

Waterford 2006-2008 Dont know what happened Waterford on those years but they left at least 1 All Ireland after them I reckon.

well they were only in 1 final and there was no doubt who the better team was that day! I would have love to have seen them win an all ireland though

adrian522

I wouldn't limit Waterford to that period, probably 1998 was their best chance, lost by 1 point to an average enough Kilkenny team and would have had Offaly in an Al Ireland final.

Good chance in 2002 and also again in 2004, having already beaten Cork, then lost to Kilkenny who were after coming through the back door and stumbled into the semi finals, playing for the 3rd weekend in a row.

calvin_zola

it is a sore point in Waterford about not winning an AI between 1997 and 2009, the consenus around is that Waterford could have won at least 3 all irelands in this period, they had the backbone of the team from the minor and under 21 teams of the early 90s...

but I always like to make a positive from it, and to be honest pre 1998 our hurling teams, setup, infrastructures where shambolic... nowadays it is vastly different, we have a competitive hurling team, they are still in the top 4 in the country, id personally say they are third best , i don't buy into this whole dublin and galway being better than them, until dub and galway beat them in the championship then i will agree... also our minor and under 21 teams are competitive now... so where we didnt take the biggest leap and win an all ireland, at least we have established ourselves as a top hurling county and are no longer the whipping boys of munster... we had dark days..... veeeeeery dark days

J Cheever Loophole

calvin_zola wrote: »

to be honest pre 1998 our hurling teams, setup, infrastructures where shambolic... nowadays it is vastly different,

Not to wish to remind you of the bad old days, but I recall Waterford playing Armagh in Division Three of the National Hurling League! :eek: At a guess I think it was mid eighties.

Although at a low ebb, youse still gave us a tanking!!

Anyway, back to the subject, and in Club football, a mention to Clan na Gael of Roscommon and Eire Og of Carlow.

teednab-el

Kassidy Uneven Senator wrote: »

well they were only in 1 final and there was no doubt who the better team was that day! I would have love to have seen them win an all ireland though

Should have done it in 2006-2007 I feel, they were a great team those two years. 2008 was a step too far for them and they met the best team to ever play the game on that day.

teednab-el

adrian522 wrote: »

I wouldn't limit Waterford to that period, probably 1998 was their best chance, lost by 1 point to an average enough Kilkenny team and would have had Offaly in an Al Ireland final.

Good chance in 2002 and also again in 2004, having already beaten Cork, then lost to Kilkenny who were after coming through the back door and stumbled into the semi finals, playing for the 3rd weekend in a row.

1998 and 2004 were two great chances Waterford had, but I doubt they would have beaten Cork again in 2004. Who knows though?

teednab-el

Stinicker wrote: »

Quite alot of the Cork football team from 1998-2005 gave great performances but never went all the way. Colin Corkery was a true Cork stalwart and a good sportsman, he deserved a Celtic cross for sure.

To be honest, I dont think those Cork teams before 2008 were good enough. I too was never a fan of Billy Morgan as manager. They should have won in 1999 but I dont think they had the belief and the pressure of the double surely got to them. Colin Corkery should have won a celtic cross though.

The_Kew_Tour

Cork football team in mid 70's should have won at least 1 if not 2 AI.

Speak Now

adrian522 wrote: »

I wouldn't limit Waterford to that period, probably 1998 was their best chance, lost by 1 point to an average enough Kilkenny team and would have had Offaly in an Al Ireland final.

I'm not sure they would have Adrian, that was a decent enough Offaly team.

Clareman

I don't think '98 was Waterford's year either, first year and all that, I think the controversy of the replay, as well as the beating that was inflicted by Clare (over double scores I think in the end) put the team back a lot. I think if Waterford has lost the first day by 1 score they would have beaten either Kilkenny or Offaly in the semi. That team were also very lucky not to be back in the All Ireland series until 2002, I think they would have given Kilkenny a far better game of it than Clare did.

GAAman

Dublin 2005-2007 springs to mind. I thought it was the team that would have been closest to sam for years (Gladly proven wrong mind you )

I still say if owen mulligan hadn't dived like he had been shot, thus getting a free which forced the reply it could well have been ours that year :mad:

JFlah

It could be argued that no 'GREAT' team has not won an All-Ireland but a lot of very good teams with exceptional players have, Cork during the 70,s and 80,s in Football had a superb team on a number of occasions only to have the GREAT Kerry team facing them and no backdoor , they,d have won countless AI,s imo in another era , Waterford hurlers from late 90,s on-wards were a very good but not great team but had some outstanding players and NO luck ; should have won at least one, I,d class Limerick hurlers of mid 90's as the same. Mayo footballers on a few occasions always failed on the biggest days too many 'nice' footballers really, but again should probably have won 1.

MrJoeSoap

Definitely the Waterford team of the late 90's and early 00's would have to go down as one of the best hurling teams to never have won an All-Ireland. Some of the talent they produced over the years... Browne, Hartley, Ken McGrath, Dan Shanahan, Brick Walsh, Mullane. All of those are incredible players who each deserve(d) an All-Ireland at some point in their careers. Unfortunately for them it never happened, but they will always be fondly remembered by those who saw them play in their prime. Ken McGrath will probably always be one of my favourite athletes ever, an absolute warrior who never looked comfortable once the helmet became mandatory. I've a signed sliotar of his that I cherish. And the summer of 2007 was incredible, when Dan the Man just couldn't stop scoring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GvXd2cRmBU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ_VZ97SxVU

calvin_zola wrote: »

they are still in the top 4 in the country, id personally say they are third best , i don't buy into this whole dublin and galway being better than them, until dub and galway beat them in the championship then i will agree...

I can't agree that Waterford are top four in the country at this moment in time, let alone top three. And I've a feeling Clare will prove that on June 17th.

calvin_zola

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I can't agree that Waterford are top four in the country at this moment in time, let alone top three. And I've a feeling Clare will prove that on June 17th.

and who'd be better? Kilkenny and Tipp are def top 2

So whose number 3? Dublin? just relegated from division one in the league, been in one all ireland semi final in recent years..

Galway? a team we've consistently beaten in recent years

Or Waterford, we've been in all ireland semis consistently since 2004, won 2 munsters in recent years and contested a fair few munster finals.... I'm not saying waterford are eating at the top table with Tipp and KK, they are a far way away from that, but they are still better than the teams around them

Lapin

teednab-el wrote: »

Hurling:

Galway 2001-2005 Good victories over Kilkenny in two semis but fell short in the finals.Should have won 2001 All Ireland I feel.

I'd include most of the Galway team from the 90's too.

Some great players throughout that decade who should have at least one All Ireland medal.

Juniorhurler

Wexford hurlers of 76-78. Lost two finals on the bounce to Cork and contained super hurlers like Mick Jacob Snr., Tony Doran, the Butlers, John and Martin Quigley, Johnny Murphy etc.

The Mayo footballers of 96 who were mugged out of one by Meath and the referee who sent off Liam McHale totally in the wrong.

Kildare of 97-98. Epic battles with Meath who were arguably the team of that decade (might slightly contradict my last point) and contained stalwarts like Niall Buckley, Glenn Ryan, Anthony Rainbow, Dermot Earley, Willie McCreery, Davy Dalton etc. Notice the only forward mentioned is a natural midfielder, Dermot Earley. This weakness eventually caught them.

theoneeyedman

Slightly off topic, but for the armagh team of the noughties only to win one all Ireland has to rank as close to some of the above teams in terms of hard luck/underachievement imo....certainly a poor return for the talent available and unlucky to coencide with the great tyrone and Kerry teams of that era

mickmcl09

JFlah wrote: »

It could be argued that no 'GREAT' team has not won an All-Ireland but a lot of very good teams with exceptional players have, Cork during the 70,s and 80,s in Football had a superb team on a number of occasions only to have the GREAT Kerry team facing them and no backdoor , they,d have won countless AI,s imo in another era , Waterford hurlers from late 90,s on-wards were a very good but not great team but had some outstanding players and NO luck ; should have won at least one, I,d class Limerick hurlers of mid 90's as the same. Mayo footballers on a few occasions always failed on the biggest days too many 'nice' footballers really, but again should probably have won 1.

Spot on. A few hard luck stories alright. Mayo footballers against Meath, Limerick and their capitulation against Offaly. But nearly all the teams mentioned in other posts were not what you'd call great teams, not because they lost on the day through sheer bad luck, but because they had too many average players on the team and if you took the law of averages, most of these teams were lucky to reach a final in the first place and if the finals in question were to be played over a 3 game series, they wouldn't have had a prayer.

Great teams eventually won a final. I'm thinking 83, when Cork and KK met for the 3rd time and the result was reversed. Clare in '95 after losing munster finals badly in 93 & 94. Tipperary in 2010.

The only other team I can think of that didn't win an All Ireland and should have is Dublin in the late 90's. I'm thinking of the day Ray Cosgrove hit the post in the dying moments against Armagh.

Juniorhurler

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Spot on. A few hard luck stories alright. Mayo footballers against Meath, Limerick and their capitulation against Offaly. But nearly all the teams mentioned in other posts were not what you'd call great teams, not because they lost on the day through sheer bad luck, but because they had too many average players on the team and if you took the law of averages, most of these teams were lucky to reach a final in the first place and if the finals in question were to be played over a 3 game series, they wouldn't have had a prayer.

Great teams eventually won a final. I'm thinking 83, when Cork and KK met for the 3rd time and the result was reversed. Clare in '95 after losing munster finals badly in 93 & 94. Tipperary in 2010.

The only other team I can think of that didn't win an All Ireland and should have is Dublin in the late 90's. I'm thinking of the day Ray Cosgrove hit the post in the dying moments against Armagh.

Very late 90's. 2002 in fact.

teednab-el

Juniorhurler wrote: »

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Spot on. A few hard luck stories alright. Mayo footballers against Meath, Limerick and their capitulation against Offaly. But nearly all the teams mentioned in other posts were not what you'd call great teams, not because they lost on the day through sheer bad luck, but because they had too many average players on the team and if you took the law of averages, most of these teams were lucky to reach a final in the first place and if the finals in question were to be played over a 3 game series, they wouldn't have had a prayer.

Great teams eventually won a final. I'm thinking 83, when Cork and KK met for the 3rd time and the result was reversed. Clare in '95 after losing munster finals badly in 93 & 94. Tipperary in 2010.

The only other team I can think of that didn't win an All Ireland and should have is Dublin in the late 90's. I'm thinking of the day Ray Cosgrove hit the post in the dying moments against Armagh.

Very late 90's. 2002 in fact.

He was Dublins best player that year but no one will forget that miss.

MrJoeSoap

calvin_zola wrote: »

and who'd be better? Kilkenny and Tipp are def top 2

So whose number 3? Dublin? just relegated from division one in the league, been in one all ireland semi final in recent years..

Galway? a team we've consistently beaten in recent years

Or Waterford, we've been in all ireland semis consistently since 2004, won 2 munsters in recent years and contested a fair few munster finals.... I'm not saying waterford are eating at the top table with Tipp and KK, they are a far way away from that, but they are still better than the teams around them

Cork would be a far better shout than Waterford at this point. Destroyed Waterford in the league and got to the league final. Dublin and Galway are on a par with Waterford at this moment in time, Dublin were extremely unlucky to be relegated from the league this year and will be a different team with Hiney, Brady and Keaney back in the lineup and fit.

The bookies have Kilkenny, Tipp, Cork, Galway and Dublin all well ahead of Waterford for the AI this year. Apologies mods for dragging this one off topic, I'll leave it here.

teednab-el

Juniorhurler wrote: »

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Great teams eventually won a final. I'm thinking 83, when Cork and KK met for the 3rd time and the result was reversed.

They didn't meet a third time. Cork lost to Kilkenny in 1982 and 1983 All Ireland finals before beating Offaly in 1984.

teednab-el

calvin_zola wrote: »

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I can't agree that Waterford are top four in the country at this moment in time, let alone top three. And I've a feeling Clare will prove that on June 17th.

Kilkenny and Tipp are def top 2

I don't think Tipp are as good as what people are making then out to be. Limerick should have beaten them yesterday. I think Cork will beat Tipp.

The second best team in the country right now is a toss between, Tipp Waterford, Cork Galway, Dublin and any of these teams can beat each other on any given day.

Syferus

On form - not just the last two months -there's absolutely no doubt that Tipp are still #2 and by a margin. Maybe it'll close this championship, but as of right now it's not even a debate. With Corbett back Tipp's sheer scoring edge will gradually return to what it was last championship. The rest are very much pretenders until they prove otherwise.

blowitupref

It could be argued that no 'GREAT' team has not won an All-Ireland but a lot of very good teams with exceptional players have

Could be also argued over the last number of decades a few teams that won All Ireland's weren't great but had exceptional players to win them the big prize.

J Cheever Loophole

GAAman wrote: »

I still say if owen mulligan hadn't dived like he had been shot, thus getting a free which forced the reply it could well have been ours that year :mad:

Mulligan diving? Surely not!?! :rolleyes:

We'll never know for sure of course, but I can't believe even if Dublin had beaten Tyrone the first day that they'd have gone on to take Sam. To do so Dublin would have had to beat ourselves in the semi and then Kerry in the Final - a tall order.

calvin_zola

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Cork would be a far better shout than Waterford at this point. Destroyed Waterford in the league and got to the league final. Dublin and Galway are on a par with Waterford at this moment in time, Dublin were extremely unlucky to be relegated from the league this year and will be a different team with Hiney, Brady and Keaney back in the lineup and fit.

The bookies have Kilkenny, Tipp, Cork, Galway and Dublin all well ahead of Waterford for the AI this year. Apologies mods for dragging this one off topic, I'll leave it here.

I guess we'll see in the championship in that case.

aidan24326

I don't subscribe to this notion that any team 'deserved' to win an All-Ireland. You win one (or more) if you're good enough simple as that. People bang on about Waterford, and yes there's no doubt that they had some great players. Ken McGrath, Tony Browne etc were top class. But ultimately they just weren't good enough, and had a strange tendency to underperform in Croke Park, sometimes after being brilliant in Munster.

MrJoeSoap

aidan24326 wrote: »

I don't subscribe to this notion that any team 'deserved' to win an All-Ireland. You win one (or more) if you're good enough simple as that. People bang on about Waterford, and yes there's no doubt that they had some great players. Ken McGrath, Tony Browne etc were top class. But ultimately they just weren't good enough, and had a strange tendency to underperform in Croke Park, sometimes after being brilliant in Munster.

I don't think anyone would argue that they just weren't good enough, that is self-evident in the fact that they made one final and lost by 23 points. But it's still sad to see so many great players not reach the highest level in their sport despite being good enough to do so. In most other sports where trades and transfers are possible, plenty of Waterford players would have gone on to be the best in the business. But unfortunately, all of their careers have ended or will end without a Celtic Cross.

aidan24326

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I don't think anyone would argue that they just weren't good enough, that is self-evident in the fact that they made one final and lost by 23 points. But it's still sad to see so many great players not reach the highest level in their sport despite being good enough to do so. In most other sports where trades and transfers are possible, plenty of Waterford players would have gone on to be the best in the business. But unfortunately, all of their careers have ended or will end without a Celtic Cross.

I agree, that players like Ken McGrath, John Mullane, Paul Flynn and Tony Browne are unfortunate to never have won a Celtic Cross and probably inferior players to them have 2 or 3 on the mantlepiece.

But that's just the luck of the draw I suppose. Had Ken McGrath been born a few miles up the road in Kilkenny he'd likely have 6 or 7 of them by now. In my own county Michael Meehan is one of the best forwards we've ever produced yet he will quite probably end his career without an All-Ireland medal. Could be a similiar scenario for Joe Canning.

MrJoeSoap

aidan24326 wrote: »

I agree, that players like Ken McGrath, John Mullane, Paul Flynn and Tony Browne are unfortunate to never have won a Celtic Cross and probably inferior players to them have 2 or 3 on the mantlepiece.

But that's just the luck of the draw I suppose. Had Ken McGrath been born a few miles up the road in Kilkenny he'd likely have 6 or 7 of them by now. In my own county Michael Meehan is one of the best forwards we've ever produced yet he will quite probably end his career without an All-Ireland medal. Could be a similiar scenario for Joe Canning.

At least Canning has six All-Ireland's under his belt already and was part of probably one of the greatest club sides in history, but I agree it would be sad to see such a talent go without a senior intercounty medal. Same goes for Michael Meehan.

blackbelt

GAAman wrote: »

Dublin 2005-2007 springs to mind. I thought it was the team that would have been closest to sam for years (Gladly proven wrong mind you )

I still say if owen mulligan hadn't dived like he had been shot, thus getting a free which forced the reply it could well have been ours that year :mad:

Yes had thought about our team then.I think 2005 we played reasonably well but our performances were a bit inconsistent.We would blitz teams for a good 20-25 minutes then fall asleep for 10-15 minutes and let teams back into games but we should have put Tyrone away in the first game.Perhaps if Cluxton had been taking the frees instead of Mossy, who knows but I don;t think we would have beaten Kerry in 2005, I do not know about Armagh either. We didn;t perform great against Wexford or in the second half against Laois so on that basis you could only go by the replay performance against Tyrone and I don;t think we would have beaten Armagh if we were to play like that even if luck was not on our side.

I think 2006 was the year out of the 2005-2007 era that we could have most likely won it but again we let Mayo slip through our fingers and we would have given Kerry a really good game but we had not played anybody of note in that years championship.We got a scare against Longford in Longford and then hammered Laois after they released paper articles about how they would crush us this time.Then we put away Offaly and Westmeath nicely but once we came up against a team outside Leinster, we got complacent when we were ahead and they set down the foundation to get those crucial last few points by getting a really good start. I don't think Kerry were as good in 2006 as they were in 2007 and it would have been interesting to see how somebody like Paul Casey or Paul Griffin would have handled Donaghy in his prime.

2007 again I think we played better than we did in 2006 but I think Kerry had improvd moreso from the previous year.All the questions were answered when they bet us in the semi.

I think the 1991 to 1994 teams would have beaten the 2005-2007 teams.I think that was a greater Dublin team that should have won more All Irelands before they eventually did in 1995.

Wishful Thinking

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but for the armagh team of the noughties only to win one all Ireland has to rank as close to some of the above teams in terms of hard luck/underachievement imo....certainly a poor return for the talent available and unlucky to coencide with the great tyrone and Kerry teams of that era

Very true, Armagh really should be digusted by themselves to See Tyrone win 3 & Kerry 4 in the open draw championship

But at least they won 1 as have Dublin & Cork(at least all 3 won at least one title, albeit some good players missed out, which shows the backdoor gives good teams redemption)

Who in football since 2001 should have won an All Ireland but failed?

Mayo, Kildare, Down & Donegal have been good but not great.

adrian522

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

I'm not sure they would have Adrian, that was a decent enough Offaly team.

I'm not saying they would have definitely beaten them but they should have beaten Kilkenny certainly and it would have been a close run thing in the final.

aidan24326

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

At least Canning has six All-Ireland's under his belt already and was part of probably one of the greatest club sides in history, but I agree it would be sad to see such a talent go without a senior intercounty medal. Same goes for Michael Meehan.

It's true Canning has already won more medals than a lot of players ever win, between club, underage, Fitzgibbon etc. But his chances of ever winning a senior All-Ireland with Galway are probably 50-50 at best. Maybe less than that even.

Only a Kerry footballer or Kilkenny hurler can be confident that he'll win an All-Ireland at some stage in his career. In most other strong counties it's luck of the draw whether you'll be around at the right time, and in some counties the 'right time' is unlikely to ever happen during the 10 or so years that you get playing at that level (if you're lucky).

For example Declan Browne was as good a footballer as there's been in the last 20 years yet he never had any realistic chance of winning an All-Ireland, and considering Tipp have Cork and Kerry to contend with, no real chance of winning a Munster medal either.

J Cheever Loophole

aidan24326 wrote: »

Only a Kerry footballer or Kilkenny hurler can be confident that he'll win an All-Ireland at some stage in his career.

I was at a GAA chat night last week, and some talk of Kerry and All Irelands came up.

Paddy Heaney told an anecdote about Dara O'Cinneide (sp?) getting involved in banter with some girl in a nightclub somewhere in Kerry, and she gave him the ultimate put down, by saying in a disparaging tone something to the effect of, "Oooh, look at you coming around here and acting all big with your three All Ireland medals!"

Another story was told about how Seamus Moynihan had told someone from Armagh that despite his five All Ireland medals, the 2002 defeat to us would haunt him long into his retirement!!

A different world! :rolleyes:

premierstone

aidan24326 wrote: »

Only a Kerry footballer or Kilkenny hurler can be confident that he'll win an All-Ireland at some stage in his career.

Plenty of great KK hurlers never won an AI aswell, and despite their recent monopoly KK have had many barren spells of up to and over 10 years.

aidan24326

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

I was at a GAA chat night last week, and some talk of Kerry and All Irelands came up.

Paddy Heaney told an anecdote about Dara O'Cinneide (sp?) getting involved in banter with some girl in a nightclub somewhere in Kerry, and she gave him the ultimate put down, by saying in a disparaging tone something to the effect of, "Oooh, look at you coming around here and acting all big with your three All Ireland medals!"

Another story was told about how Seamus Moynihan had told someone from Armagh that despite his five All Ireland medals, the 2002 defeat to us would haunt him long into his retirement!!

A different world! :rolleyes:

That's true. Having a couple of All-Ireland medals would make you a hero in most counties but in Kerry you're nothing special until you have 4 or 5.

premierstone wrote: »

Plenty of great KK hurlers never won an AI aswell, and despite their recent monopoly KK have had many barren spells of up to and over 10 years.

In fairness there hasn't been many great Kilkenny hurlers that ended their career without at least one AI medal in the back pocket. Most would have more than one.

Put it this way. If you're a top underage hurler in Kilkenny right now, soon to break into the senior ranks, what are the chances of you going through your entire senior career without winning an All-Ireland? Pretty slim I'd say.

teednab-el

premierstone wrote: »

aidan24326 wrote: »

Only a Kerry footballer or Kilkenny hurler can be confident that he'll win an All-Ireland at some stage in his career.

Plenty of great KK hurlers never won an AI aswell, and despite their recent monopoly KK have had many barren spells of up to and over 10 years.

Has there been exceptional players from 1984-1991 era in Kilkenny that haven't won All Irelands?

premierstone

teednab-el wrote: »

Has their been exceptional players from 1984-1991 in Kilkenny that haven't won All Irelands?

Lester Ryan and Sean Fennelly would be two from that era that I dont think won one, I'm sure there are plenty more and from the 60's aswell.

JFlah

blowitupref wrote: »

Could be also argued over the last number of decades a few teams that won All Ireland's weren't great but had exceptional players to win them the big prize.

Absolutely true , all I was saying was that no truly great team failed to win at least 1 that's not to say that a lot of mediocre teams haven't won AI,s in both codes

Maybe an interesting thread Worst teams to win AI's?

rpurfield

has noone mentioned kildare 1997-2000ish?they were very unlucky against meath in 1997 after the three games in face i think them three games cost both teams and all ireland that year as meath were down to the bare bones for the leinster final and kildare were the match of them.

Mountainlad

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Spot on. A few hard luck stories alright. Mayo footballers against Meath, Limerick and their capitulation against Offaly. But nearly all the teams mentioned in other posts were not what you'd call great teams, not because they lost on the day through sheer bad luck, but because they had too many average players on the team and if you took the law of averages, most of these teams were lucky to reach a final in the first place and if the finals in question were to be played over a 3 game series, they wouldn't have had a prayer.

Great teams eventually won a final. I'm thinking 83, when Cork and KK met for the 3rd time and the result was reversed. Clare in '95 after losing munster finals badly in 93 & 94. Tipperary in 2010.

The only other team I can think of that didn't win an All Ireland and should have is Dublin in the late 90's. I'm thinking of the day Ray Cosgrove hit the post in the dying moments against Armagh.

Clare were a great team in the 90's? Your calling Tipp in 2010 a great team too? Clare had warriors and some good hurlers (O'Connor was class, as were McMahon and Lohan and Lynch was quite a good hurler). They deserved to win the all-irelands those years no doubt and were a very good team I guess, but they weren't a great team.

Tipp have won one all-ireland. They still have a young team and plenty of talent, but no great team only wins one all-ireland.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Cork would be a far better shout than Waterford at this point. Destroyed Waterford in the league and got to the league final. Dublin and Galway are on a par with Waterford at this moment in time, Dublin were extremely unlucky to be relegated from the league this year and will be a different team with Hiney, Brady and Keaney back in the lineup and fit.

The bookies have Kilkenny, Tipp, Cork, Galway and Dublin all well ahead of Waterford for the AI this year. Apologies mods for dragging this one off topic, I'll leave it here.

I can see what Calvin's saying, it's frustrating to hear year in year out that we're not as good as this team or that team even though we've been in the last 4 for 6 years in a row now.

At the same time I would be a bit worried about us this year. Having said that I don't think it's fair to highlight that Keaney, Brady and Hiney are back for Dublin, and then make reference to Waterford's defeat against Cork. The only players Cork were missing were Luke O'Farrell, Niall McCarthy and Eoin Cadogan.

In contrast, Waterford were missing Stephen O'Keefe, Lawlor, Connors, Browne, Hutchison, Foley, David O'Sullivan, Maurice Shanahan, Shane Walsh (shoudln't have started wasn't fit), John Mullane. Gavin O'Brien ddin't start, and Moran was center back and Brick was center forward. The first game of the league is not a good indicator of championship.

As I said I'm concerned myself and while I don't doubt that the bookies are right about us not winning an All-Ireland, I can't see anyone beating Kilkenny (maybe Dublin in Leinster but not twice). One thing I'd say is don't rely on the bookies for predictions on who will win in a Waterford match because they get it wrong as often as they get it right. Just ask Galway

We are good at overturning the odds, who knows maybe we'll do it again. You'd have to say though, until Dublin and Galway and Cork and whoever do beat us in the championship, it's a bit unfair to say they're better.

toxicity234

adrian522 wrote: »

I wouldn't limit Waterford to that period, probably 1998 was their best chance, lost by 1 point to an average enough Kilkenny team and would have had Offaly in an Al Ireland final.

Good chance in 2002 and also again in 2004, having already beaten Cork, then lost to Kilkenny who were after coming through the back door and stumbled into the semi finals, playing for the 3rd weekend in a row.

They would had there work too out to beat that offaly team in that final.

StephenHendry

mayo team from 1996 to 1999.
they threw it away in 96, beaten by an inspired maurice fitz in the 97 game. i thought when then beat galway in a great connacht semi or final? in 1999 that it was going to be their year. still a good team to watch in their day