Disappearance of Huguenot surnames

ifconfig

How is the large scale disappearance of Huguenot surnames in Ireland accounted for ?
Was there a lot of emigration by these families or was it mostly a case of male lines dying out ?

I realise that there are surnames such as Le Fanu, Vignoles still around but very few.
There would appear to be more Palatine names and that group were a smaller scale group and a huge proportion of Palatines emigrated to US/Canada in the late 18th/early 19th century.

Is there evidence that some Huguenot surnames were changed to "blend in" ?

Portarlington was a very large settlement of Huguenots wasn't it ?

--ifc

Coolnabacky1873

I don't know if there is much about surnames but this document, Researching Huguenot Settlers in Ireland, might be able to answer some of your questions.

It's from Bringham Young University, which is the Mormon Uni where you can study for genealogy qualifications.

You are right about Portarlington. FMP have some relevant Church records.

FloatingVoter

I am completely out of my depth here but I knew a Fountain (who reckoned without caring that Fontaine was the original family name). Shes now vanished from the face of the earth but lived in Dublin. Phonebook job there.
There are Shires in West Limerick but I'm guessing they're not what you're looking for. They were some other religious / mass migrations etc.
Now, back to AH.:)

ShaneU

ifconfig wrote: »

How is the large scale disappearance of Huguenot surnames in Ireland accounted for ?
Was there a lot of emigration by these families or was it mostly a case of male lines dying out ?

I realise that there are surnames such as Le Fanu, Vignoles still around but very few.
There would appear to be more Palatine names and that group were a smaller scale group and a huge proportion of Palatines emigrated to US/Canada in the late 18th/early 19th century.

Is there evidence that some Huguenot surnames were changed to "blend in" ?

Portarlington was a very large settlement of Huguenots wasn't it ?

--ifc

My surname is Hughenot, Uzell. Comes from Ouiselle the french word for Bird.

ifconfig

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I am completely out of my depth here but I knew a Fountain (who reckoned without caring that Fontaine was the original family name). Shes now vanished from the face of the earth but lived in Dublin. Phonebook job there.


There are Shires in West Limerick but I'm guessing they're not what you're looking for. They were some other religious / mass migrations etc.
Now, back to AH.:)

According to 1901 Irish Census there were 2 separate Fountain families in Dublin (1 family in Arran Quay, 1 in Dundrum) and the most senior male in either case was born in London/England.
So, I don't think Fountains were part of the 17th/18th century influx of Huguenots into Ireland.

Shier is a Palatine name alright.
I am not sure if some spell it Shire (but these names were changed over the ages. The original German spelling was most likely to be Schier).

-ifc

ifconfig

ShaneU wrote: »

My surname is Hughenot, Uzell. Comes from Ouiselle the french word for Bird.

That is a very interesting surname Shane.
What is intriguing is that the Census and Griffith Val. records as well as old headstone inscriptions show that it was localised around Kilcooley , Co Tipperary where a landlord (William Barker) took a small subset of the Palatines originally settled in Limerick in the 1720s.

There is a headstone to an Uzell erected by a member of the Switzer family.
There was a Palatine family called Urselbaugh (probably originally Urselbach or similar) in Nantinan/Limerick and I wonder if it might be possible that some part of that family relocated to Kilcooley and adopted a shortened surname ??
Other marriage records show inter marriage between other Palatines and Uzell in Kilcooley.

Familysearch.org seems to show Ursulbach

It may be coincidence that some Huguenots (in England) had the surname Uzell (derived from d'Oiselle).
It looks like there are English families who are linked to that Huguenot origin alright.

I am sure you have researched your surname but it might also be worth keeping an open mind on whether your ancestors were Palatine rather than Huguenot.

christmas2010

Hi ShaneU
I'm very interested in your surname.
I was told orally that I have a great great grandmother of Heugenot origins. Her surname sounded like Youteill, but I have never been able to find any trace of that name.
I reckon she was born about 1800 and was married to John Armstrong. They lived in Mayo. They had a daugher called Margaret Armstrong.
Phonetically Uzell sounds quite like Youteill or Uteill so I'm wondering if any of the details above mean anything to you or anyone else.

ifconfig

Christmas2010 :

Just to throw in a curved ball.

Is there any chance the family surname you've heard about via family folklore may have had the surname Yourell ?

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.britisles.ireland.wem.general/96.740.742/mb.ashx

The name is quite widespread around Ireland and is said to be a longer standing name in Ireland (most likely Norman, based on link above).
The 1901 census shows a 9 year old girl named Jane, daughter of Thomas & Mary Yourell living near Moate, Co Westmeath.
Jane was born in Mayo and other siblings born in Galway, Kildare and Meath.
The father's occupation was a railway porter which probably explains the multiple moves by the family over the years of birth of the children.

The fact that the religion of Yourells recorded in the 1901 census appears to be unequivocally R.C. and the fact that the name was quite widespread on both east and west coasts seems to help affirm the belief that this would have been most likely an old-order Anglo/Norman Irish family as opposed to a 17th/18th century Huguenot family.

Of course, all that said - your relative may not have been Yourell at all and something more gutteral like the Youtell, Utell, you suggested in your post.

—ifc

christmas2010 wrote: »

Hi ShaneU
I'm very interested in your surname.
I was told orally that I have a great great grandmother of Heugenot origins. Her surname sounded like Youteill, but I have never been able to find any trace of that name.
I reckon she was born about 1800 and was married to John Armstrong. They lived in Mayo. They had a daugher called Margaret Armstrong.
Phonetically Uzell sounds quite like Youteill or Uteill so I'm wondering if any of the details above mean anything to you or anyone else.

Ellis Dee

ifconfig wrote: »

Is there evidence that some Huguenot surnames were changed to "blend in" ?

Portarlington was a very large settlement of Huguenots wasn't it ?

--ifc

I have to admit I don't know why so many Hegenot surnames disappeared, but I suspect the male line dying out had a lot to do with it.

There are still lots of Champs, Blancs and Lacumbres in and around Portarlington. There may still be some Devereauxs and Eckreds still somewhere around, but I don't know what happened to the Napiers and, as far as I know, Miss Tabeteau was the last of her family ...

Sic transit ---

DubCul

My neighbour in Dublin was Devereaux.

Worked with a Noyes who told his name was Huguenot. Also a Dub

christmas2010

ifconfig wrote: »

Christmas2010 :

Just to throw in a curved ball.

Is there any chance the family surname you've heard about via family folklore may have had the surname Yourell ?

http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/localities.britisles.ireland.wem.general/96.740.742/mb.ashx

The name is quite widespread around Ireland and is said to be a longer standing name in Ireland (most likely Norman, based on link above).
The 1901 census shows a 9 year old girl named Jane, daughter of Thomas & Mary Yourell living near Moate, Co Westmeath.
Jane was born in Mayo and other siblings born in Galway, Kildare and Meath.
The father's occupation was a railway porter which probably explains the multiple moves by the family over the years of birth of the children.

The fact that the religion of Yourells recorded in the 1901 census appears to be unequivocally R.C. and the fact that the name was quite widespread on both east and west coasts seems to help affirm the belief that this would have been most likely an old-order Anglo/Norman Irish family as opposed to a 17th/18th century Huguenot family.

Of course, all that said - your relative may not have been Yourell at all and something more gutteral like the Youtell, Utell, you suggested in your post.

—ifc

That is all very interesting.
The other part of the family story is that Sophia Youteill was a cousin of the writer Maria Edgeworth which would bring the family back to the midlands.
It's a strand of the family tree that I'd really like to make some progress on but having the usual Irish problem of finding much in the way of records prior to the 1830s.

ifconfig

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I have to admit I don't know why so many Hegenot surnames disappeared, but I suspect the male line dying out had a lot to do with it.

There are still lots of Champs, Blancs and Lacumbres in and around Portarlington. There may still be some Devereauxs and Eckreds still somewhere around, but I don't know what happened to the Napiers and, as far as I know, Miss Tabeteau was the last of her family ...

Sic transit ---

Thanks for that lovely trio of Huguenot names.
I just cross checked eircomphonebook.ie/residential and you are correct that these names persist in Portarlington and surrounds (and further afield).
Nice names.

The name Devereux, though was a Norman name and unless there was a second wave of Devereux via the Huguenot immigrants I think it has its prevalence in Wexford and the South East and spread around the country.
Again, I think all (but cannot swear) Devereux are Catholic and part of the ancient-regime

I assumed Napier was Ulster/Scots (based on names in the news and also quick scan of the 1901 census and the demographic associated with the name).
Not sure of its actual origin, though....


—ifc

ifconfig

DubCul wrote: »

My neighbour in Dublin was Devereaux.

Worked with a Noyes who told his name was Huguenot. Also a Dub

Noyes is a very rare surname and it is hard to know its origin.
On 1901 census there are some Noyes living in Cuffe St, Dublin.
However, very few males of an age to deduct that they had been in the country for a long time.
Others specify origin from England.

In 1850s Griffith valuation the nearest I can find to Noyes as a registered occupier of land would be a land agent for a plot in Athlumney near Navan, Meath named Mr Noyse.

It might indeed have a Huguenot origin but possibly Huguenots who settled in England and latterly (late 19th/early 20th cent) moved to Ireland.
It also may have had Germanic roots (eg, Neue ?)

I believe the vast majority of Devereux family are Norman conquest in origin.

It is not uncommon for folk to assume French sounding surnames are Huguenot origin but in many cases they are not.
Also, there are Irish surnames which were distorted into French sounding name !!
Take the example of Delahunt or Delahunty.
This was an old Irish name Dhul Chaointeach (spelling may be slightly off here).
Same for Fitzpatrick (as opposed to Fitzgerald).
Fitzpatrick (Gaelic name), Fitzgerald (Anglo/Norman).

-ifc

annieoburns

There is a great list of family names inscribed on a wall beside the Huguenot cemetery on Merrion Row, Dublin. I have a Du Moulin iline n my tree.

wexflyer

ifconfig wrote: »

How is the large scale disappearance of Huguenot surnames in Ireland accounted for ?

--ifc

Quite easily. Multiple scientific studies and the laws of statistics show that:
- In general, over time, the number of surnames will decrease. As evidence for this, take China and Korea, where surnames have been in use for the longest time. There, just a few surnames now account for an astonishing proportion of the population. In Europe, there are far fewer surnames today than there were in medieval times.
- More specifically, small samples are the most susceptible to disappearance.

Thus, statistics alone can account for the disappearance of rare surnames and also minority religions and populations. The ways that this natural process can be delayed or forestalled include:
a) Segregation/non-mixing with majority population. The survival of Judaism is the prime example of this.
b) Resupply of the minority population or rare surname from a separate source, e.g. via colonial immigration.

Absent these processes, rare surnames or minority religions and populations tend to disappear relatively quickly (depending on just how rare they are).

pinkypinky

Wexflyer,

Please do not resurrect zombie threads to just add two cents.

Thanks,

PinkyPinky