Munster training ground, Limerick or Cork?

sparks24

Shaun Payne makes a very good point here i think.

at that level of sport its a bit mad the set up there working with.

Here is what he had to say http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/payne-believes-munster-must-choose-between-limerick-and-cork-1-3879104

I'd say limerick is the best option with thomond park and the facilities they have and the U.L which is the best sports centre in the country by a country mile

what does boards think?

wp_rathead

Where is the Neil Francis option in that poll?

Fishooks12

Limerick, more logical option in everyway really

Cpt_Blackbeard

Politics say Cork. Logic and reason says Limerick.

sparks24

wprathead wrote: »

Where is the Neil Francis option in that poll?

Who cares about him?

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Politics say Cork. Logic and reason says Limerick.

ya have to agree about the politics they would kick up a fuss alright but whats best for the squad should be paramount!

Its not like cork would be abandoned like they would still get pro 12 games to go too and im sure the players will still be visiting the clubs and schools as they always did

ongarite

Lots of people pushing for it to be in Cork but what really hurts the split training & grounds is that the Cork-Limerick road is a terrible terrible road. It makes the journey between the 2 cities a pain in the ass.
If the motorway hadn't been canned with the cutbacks, I would be up for Cork training base but based on the current and future outlook for the country and Munster Rugby, it should be in UL, Limerick.

profitius

More players are from Cork. Doesn't make sense to relocate them to Limerick.

ormond lad

Theres another option. Create a purpose built centre in the centre of the province in somewhere like Fermoy
Build a training complex based slightly on what clonmel have(obviously bigger), which you can see here, in a central location like Fermoy/Mallow.

Yes by moving to somewhere like Fermoy you increase travel for everyone in terms of the pros but it helps everyone involved in munster rugby from the underage representative teams to the adult representative sides like the womens and juniors

The pro side can still base themselves in UL/CIT the days before a game but other weeks everyone can train together in the one venue all the time. There would be issues in terms of the academy and how those in college would be able to train and im not sure how that would work but im sure this would work much better than the way things are now with the occasions where half the squad train in limerick and half the squad train in cork

CatFromHue

There would be a large cost involved in building a new facility and considering there's already facilities in Cork and Limerick it would be a bizarre financial option.

sparks24

ormond lad wrote: »

Theres another option. Create a purpose built centre in the centre of the province in somewhere like Fermoy
Build a training complex based slightly on what clonmel have(obviously bigger), which you can see here, in a central location like Fermoy/Mallow.

Yes by moving to somewhere like Fermoy you increase travel for everyone in terms of the pros but it helps everyone involved in munster rugby from the underage representative teams to the adult representative sides like the womens and juniors

The pro side can still base themselves in UL/CIT the days before a game but other weeks everyone can train together in the one venue all the time. There would be issues in terms of the academy and how those in college would be able to train and im not sure how that would work but im sure this would work much better than the way things are now with the occasions where half the squad train in limerick and half the squad train in cork

“The option of having a training base half way between Limerick and Cork was looked at, but it is not a proper possibility if you look at the costing of the project and what is out there. It looks like one of the centres would have to be the option.”

this is what shaun said so that option was looked at and it wasn't going to work out financially and practically there going to pick one or the other as things stand now

Teferi

This is the new Sexton V ROG debate.

sparks24

profitius wrote: »

More players are from Cork. Doesn't make sense to relocate them to Limerick.

facilities far better in limerick, its not just cork and limerick players in the squad

Spudmonkey

Moving it to one or the other still doesn't make it any easier. If its in Cork the limerick based players will still have to travel and if its in limerick the cork based players will have to. If they were to have a single training ground it would make sense to have it in Limerick with the arena and TP based there but it would alienate a big pool of players and supporters.

twinytwo

Limerick.... end of really

sparks24

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Moving it to one or the other still doesn't make it any easier. If its in Cork the limerick based players will still have to travel and if its in limerick the cork based players will have to. If they were to have a single training ground it would make sense to have it in Limerick with the arena and TP based there but it would alienate a big pool of players and supporters.

ya maybe some players but i dont see how you would alienate the supporters it would only be training and cork would still have matches in musgrave

Podge_irl

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Moving it to one or the other still doesn't make it any easier. If its in Cork the limerick based players will still have to travel and if its in limerick the cork based players will have to. If they were to have a single training ground it would make sense to have it in Limerick with the arena and TP based there but it would alienate a big pool of players and supporters.

If its moved to Limerick/Cork, players will soon stop basing themselves in the other city. Within 10 years (at most) everyone will be living near the training centre.

Have any NIQs that have played for Munster actually settled in Limerick?

ormond lad

Podge_irl wrote: »

If its moved to Limerick/Cork, players will soon stop basing themselves in the other city. Within 10 years (at most) everyone will be living near the training centre.

Have any NIQs that have played for Munster actually settled in Limerick?

Sean Payne lives in Killaloe

LeinsterDub

Didn't seem to affect them when they won two Heineken Cups. Munster's problems are down to a lack of cover and failure to develop players. Playing in Cork, Limerick or both won't change this

Podge_irl

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Didn't seem to affect them when they won two Heineken Cups.

Great teams remain great by adjusting for the future even when winning. Just because they won two HECs in spite of this rather farcical situation and the fact they have other issues to address doesn't mean it isn't a problem that desperately needs fixing.

ormond lad

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Didn't seem to affect them when they won two Heineken Cups. Munster's problems are down to a lack of cover and failure to develop players. Playing in Cork, Limerick or both won't change this

People keep bring it up that it didnt stop us winning 2 heineken cups but it clearly is an issue as McGahan and Sean Payne have talked about the problems of having 2 bases.
Playing in Cork or Limerick is not the issue at all its having some of the squad training in Cork while some of the squad train in Limerick.
We havent really failed to develop players in recent years its the years of kidneys 2nd time as coach and the end of gaffneys reign as coach that have helped cause the problems today. The academy was very poor for several years and only recently has improved to a decent enough level

Monty Burnz

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Politics say Cork. Logic and reason says Limerick.

I'm not sure about that. Ultimately, the plan should be to grow the sport outside Limerick. You'd want a base somewhere a bit more central than the Western extremity of the province were that the case.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'm not sure about that. Ultimately, the plan should be to grow the sport outside Limerick. You'd want a base somewhere a bit more central than the Western extremity of the province were that the case.

How does players training in the county encourage growth of the sport there? Its a complete non-argument that is only put forward as a barricade to hinder the squad leaving Cork.

Monty Burnz

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'm not sure about that. Ultimately, the plan should be to grow the sport outside Limerick. You'd want a base somewhere a bit more central than the Western extremity of the province were that the case.

How does players training in the county encourage growth of the sport there? Its a complete non-argument that is only put forward as a barricade to hinder the squad b leaving Cork.

Is it more or less of a non-argument than saying they should be in Limerick because there's a gym at UL Bohs?

Cpt_Blackbeard

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Is it more or less of a non-argument than saying they should be in Limerick because there's a gym at UL Bohs?

The facilities have nothing to do with Bohs.

The argument for staying in Limerick are the top class facilities already available in the university. Unless you can find a source for the millions that would be needed to replicate UL's facilities elsewhere, basing out of UL remains the most reasonable option.

ormond lad

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

The facilities have nothing to do with Bohs.

The argument for staying in Limerick are the top class facilities already available in the university. Unless you can find a source for the millions that would be needed to replicate UL's facilities elsewhere, basing out of UL remains the most reasonable option.

An issue of having all the training in Limerick is the slight disenfranching of cork. If you have a sole training base and have it in Limerick and with all big games, in the pro12 and heineken cup, games in Limerick you are ignoring cork and our biggest market for supporters. Giving musgrave the smaller games etc will not due.
We can develop the game much more in cork(both getting new fans and kids playing rugby) as i cant see how much more the game can grow in limerick like there is not going to be any more schools/clubs being created in limerick city but a new rugby school could be easily estabished in cork, it would take a while but it would eventually do well.

Benny Cake

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'm not sure about that. Ultimately, the plan should be to grow the sport outside Limerick. You'd want a base somewhere a bit more central than the Western extremity of the province were that the case.

Seriously Monty, if you think Limerick is the "Western Extremity" of Munster you urgently need to buy a map of Ireland....

rpurfield

surely to god with a lot of the established players either retiring or approaching that point, the young lads and niq's can be told to pitch up in limerick and everything then becomes based out of there.id understand say the likes of rog not moving and he with a family etc but as a young lad with no kids comes along it wouldnt be hard for him to move up the road.

Monty Burnz

Benny Cake wrote: »

Seriously Monty, if you think Limerick is the "Western Extremity" of Munster you urgently need to buy a map of Ireland....

Fair point

My concern ultimately is for the good of Munster rugby and the good of the team. I think that we need to get away from the idea that the training should take place in Cork or Limerick - it should be wherever is objectively the best, based on the criteria determined by those calling the shots - that might well be in Tipperary or somewhere.

I'd be much happier with training taking place exclusively in Limerick (or Cork) than split into two camps if it is ultimately better for the team.

Shelflife

As an outsider looking in, the logical place would be to base it in limerick as the facilities in ul are top class.

Why it would take 6 months to decide either way is beyond me, The new coach should decide whats happening in the first week and thats the matter settled.

In the same way that a normal workplace moves its HQ, the employees can choose to commute or live close by, the munster players are old enough to decide what they want to do.

Make a decision and stick with it, I thought that they had sorted this problem out a few years back.

phog

Shelflife wrote: »

As an outsider looking in, the logical place would be to base it in limerick as the facilities in ul are top class.

Why it would take 6 months to decide either way is beyond me, The new coach should decide whats happening in the first week and thats the matter settled.

In the same way that a normal workplace moves its HQ, the employees can choose to commute or live close by, the munster players are old enough to decide what they want to do.

Make a decision and stick with it, I thought that they had sorted this problem out a few years back.

I'd guess one of the problems is the academy players, some are studying in UCC and some in UL, making the decision now and telling them to commute for training and then for study isn't really on.

If one training ground is an absolute must then it needs to be planned for rather than implemented at the drop of a hat.

profitius

I know in Cork people are concerned with Limerick hijacking Munster rugby. Cork has most of the population, most of the players and more money to drive Munster rugby forward.

The new stadium was awarded to Limerick, the team is called a Limerick team by lots of foreign media and Limerick has been made center of Munster rugby. What does that do? Its great for Limerick but its not exactly promoting the game around the rest of the province. 'A Limerick love affair' was just on TV no so long ago. Not helping either is being told that its a working class sport in Limerick but a posh sport in Cork.

In large areas of Cork and the rest of Munster, rugby hasn't made much impact despite Munsters success. Their team is playing a few hours away up the country. That hardly inspires the locals who have GAA stars playing and living in their locality. Having been in Waterford alot I can tell you that rugby only gets a small amount of air time in the local media. Again, its hardly going to inspire the next generation of youth. I'm guessing the same can be said for other parts of the province.

So where should the training take place. Where most of the players are from would be the obvious answer. If its in Limerick so be it. I would't personally be too concerned about training, my main concern would be about the lack of growth in certain areas and moving the whole thing away from the biggest population in Munster.

ormond lad

profitius wrote: »

I know in Cork people are concerned with Limerick hijacking Munster rugby. Cork has most of the population, most of the players and more money to drive Munster rugby forward.
Cork does have the population which should mean there is no reason for games held in musgrave not to be at capacity

The new stadium was awarded to Limerick, the team is called a Limerick team by lots of foreign media and Limerick has been made center of Munster rugby. What does that do? Its great for Limerick but its not exactly promoting the game around the rest of the province. 'A Limerick love affair' was just on TV no so long ago. Not helping either is being told that its a working class sport in Limerick but a posh sport in Cork.

In large areas of Cork and the rest of Munster, rugby hasn't made much impact despite Munsters success. Their team is playing a few hours away up the country. That hardly inspires the locals who have GAA stars playing and living in their locality.
Having been in Waterford alot I can tell you that rugby only gets a small amount of air time in the local media. Again, its hardly going to inspire the next generation of youth. I'm guessing the same can be said for other parts of the province. What is inspiring kids to play and what will improve media coverage of munster rugby in waterford is Waterparks success. If waterpark stay successful u/age and the players stay in the club the media attention will pick up as the clubs first team improves. Waterford city needs a senior club and its 2nd club, waterford city rfc, to become much stronger

So where should the training take place. Where most of the players are from would be the obvious answer. If its in Limerick so be it. I would't personally be too concerned about training, my main concern would be about the lack of growth in certain areas and moving the whole thing away from the biggest population in Munster.

The training should take place somewhere that suits eveeryone, which is why a central location in neither cork or limerick city would suit(this will not happen due to costs)

CatFromHue

profitius wrote: »

So where should the training take place. Where most of the players are from would be the obvious answer. If its in Limerick so be it. I would't personally be too concerned about training, my main concern would be about the lack of growth in certain areas and moving the whole thing away from the biggest population in Munster.

I don't see how Munster training in Cork half the time helps develop the game there.

To me it's a no brainer in that wherever has the best facilities the team should train there.

The focus should be moved away from the players and on to the team.

CatFromHue

ormond lad wrote: »

The training should take place somewhere that suits eveeryone, which is why a central location in neither cork or limerick city would suit(this will not happen due to costs)

It isn't a democracy!

profitius

ormond lad wrote: »

Cork does have the population which should mean there is no reason for games held in musgrave not to be at capacity

Exactly. So you have to ask why can't they fill MP in Cork. Getting the worst games doesn't help as well as poor marketing etc. For me it highlights the dangers of ignoring Cork.

The original plan was to rebuild MP into an 18-24,000 (I don't have the exact figures but its along those lines) capacity stadium but the economic downturn means thats been put on hold. There was large protests about it from certain Munster fans when it was proposed a few seasons back. Amazingly, part of their argument was the concern over the Limerick economy!!! Thats the sort of politics involved.

Monty Burnz

profitius wrote: »

Exactly. So you have to ask why can't they fill MP in Cork. Getting the worst games doesn't help as well as poor marketing etc. For me it highlights the dangers of ignoring Cork.

This.

CatFromHue

Actually the worst game in Musgrave got the highest attendance. Aironi on a pissy wet night got 8742 compared to 7252 for the Dragons, 7648 for Lanelli, and 7942 for Glasgow. The reason I'd say is that it was the Munster first team playing that night as they had ROG, Murray, Earls, Howlett, POC, and Ryan all playing.