A garden tree for shade

col.in.Cr

What or where could I get a tree for shade for a small garden?
I suppose fast growing one would be nice too
thanks

kylith

Are you looking for a tree to provide shade, or is your garden shady?

magicbastarder

a birch would grow quickly and cast a dappled shade.

bbam

magicbastarder wrote: »

a birch would grow quickly and cast a dappled shade.

+1 for the birch.
Beautiful tree for any garden

paddy147

Multi stem silver or white birch will make a beautifull tree which allows lovely shades of light and sun through.:)

Make sure the tree is suitable for the garden size and that it doesnt "outgrow" the garden or the property too.
If you want to keep the actual height of the birch down to suit the location,then prune it and keep the leader/leaders in check and you will have a lovely shaped trees for many many years.

looksee

I am a great fan of birch and have two of them in my quite small garden. However they are not great for shade as they have tall stems so that the patch of shade is a long way from the tree (and in this case, mostly on the roof of the shed). Something with a shorter trunk and slightly denser canopy would be better - a crab apple makes a nice fat patch of shade (have one of those too!) or a Mountain Ash. And loads of fruit/berries for the birds.

Oldtree

Have you thought of a small pergola (perhaps only slightly wider than a seat) with a seat under it and you could then train almost anything up and over it. I did this with a forsythia, lovely splash of yellow in spring, lets the light through on a good winter day and provides a good shade in summer when pruned right, also climbers vines ivy etc.

Apples are very good for shade as is a cherry and a well pruned willow (careful now!)

paddy147

looksee wrote: »

I am a great fan of birch and have two of them in my quite small garden. However they are not great for shade as they have tall stems so that the patch of shade is a long way from the tree (and in this case, mostly on the roof of the shed). Something with a shorter trunk and slightly denser canopy would be better - a crab apple makes a nice fat patch of shade (have one of those too!) or a Mountain Ash. And loads of fruit/berries for the birds.

You can create a lovely full birch tree if you train and prune them as they grow.You need to know what branches/leaders to prune and what one not to prune in order to create a full figured tree that looks nice from all angles.If you do it right,then you can keep a tree at the right height and get the branches to grow out and make a lovely tree that would be suitable for a small garden.

Half the problem with trees in general,is that people just stick them in the ground,without actually thinking about location and what the tree will be like in years to come.This leads to future problems down the line after the tree has outgrown its location(due to lack of care and pruning)



Prune the birch trees in the summer when they are in full growth and this will also keep the tree healthy year after year.Pruning the birch tree in the summer also prevents bleeding of sap and causing the tree severe wounds too (sometimes fatal cuts/wounds).

You have to know what branches to prune and when to prune them (as in alternate years).Also keeping the leaders correctly is also vital to the trees growth,both upwards and outwards too).

paddy147

I personally love silver/white birch trees,as I think the shape of them is lovely and they still let the right amount of sunlight and daylight in,but still give you nice contrasts of shade.Perfect on a hot sunny day like today.

But thats just me.:)

looksee

@ Paddy, but the thing I like about the birches I have - especially the Himalalyan Birch with its tall, graceful white trunk is the shape - an elegant lacy leaf shape, and it does create lovely dappled shade, its just, in my opinion, not the best for a specific shade tree. Why prune something as nice as a birch into a shape that is not natural, when you can find something else that is the shape you want?

paddy147

looksee wrote: »

@ Paddy, but the thing I like about the birches I have - especially the Himalalyan Birch with its tall, graceful white trunk is the shape - an elegant lacy leaf shape, and it does create lovely dappled shade, its just, in my opinion, not the best for a specific shade tree. Why prune something as nice as a birch into a shape that is not natural, when you can find something else that is the shape you want?

What Im saying is,that some people just slap in a tree,without actually thinking 5-10 years down the line,and then 20+ years down the line,when the tree is about 40 feet tall and outgrown its location.

A way to keep a tree looking nice and suited to the location it has been planted in,is to prune it in a specific way.

Thats all Im saying.:)

PS-The amount of small gardens that have been redone (new driveway/new back patio and new planting),and have a load of birch trees just slapped in,and you can tell that the homeowner hasnt thought it out propperly,with regards the trees location and the future.

One house I saw recently,has 3 x 7 feet tall horse chestnut tree saplings growing right besdie the front of the house.And I mean right beside the house (about 1 foot away from front wall).:eek:




PPS-I love birch myself (for the exact same reasons you mentioned yourself).
I have one in my own garden,and wouldnt change the garden for the world.:D

looksee

Ok, we'll agree to agree!

planetX

I love birch too, and if you want a nice shape it's worth getting them small. The garden centres are full of lollipop trees, I can't stand them.

Oldtree

paddy147 wrote: »

Prune the birch trees in the summer when they are in full growth and this will also keep the tree healthy year after year.Pruning the birch tree in the summer also prevents bleeding of sap and causing the tree severe wounds too (sometimes fatal cuts/wounds).

You have to know what branches to prune and when to prune them (as in alternate years).Also keeping the leaders correctly is also vital to the trees growth,both upwards and outwards too).

It is best to prune Birch in winter, using target pruning. A birch will bleed if pruned in summer.

Took this photo for another thread today.
I pruned these to get a more fanned look but have also pruned so the leaves start at about the height of the beech hedge. I wanted the birch nearer the hedge to branch lower down to give a better contrast to the beech hedge. The small one langished for a few years but is now settleing in.

col.in.Cr

Yes,I am looking for a tree to give shade in the front garden
thanks for all the replies,I will have a read through them now
cheers

paddy147

A birch will also bleed in winter too,and is at the mercy of the winter and also possible infection too,as the cut/wound is open for longer..

Some experts say to prune in summer,others says prune in winter.

Summertime for me.

Oldtree

Birch require sap to bleed and as no sap in winter no bleed. Birches' sap is not poisionous to its own bark like walnut. All modern experts (arborists) agree that winter is the optimum time to prune (target prune).

See from Arb Association Section 3 and 4 here:

http://www.trees.org.uk/tree-care-advice/tree-terminology

Shigo is one worth look up and I have attached a recent outline for you to read "When to Prune Trees or A Short Course in Tree Phenology" by Marcel Beauchamp that gives the reasons why pruning in winter is optimum for a tree.

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

Birch require sap to bleed and as no sap in winter no bleed. Birches' sap is not poisionous to its own bark like walnut. All modern experts (arborists) agree that winter is the optimum time to prune (target prune).

See from Arb Association Section 3 and 4 here:

http://www.trees.org.uk/tree-care-advice/tree-terminology

Shigo is one worth look up and I have attached a recent outline for you to read "When to Prune Trees or A Short Course in Tree Phenology" by Marcel Beauchamp that gives the reasons why pruning in winter is optimum for a tree.

From your own link...."in leaf" meaning summertime.....(to me anyway).;)


....."Cherry, Plum and related trees (Prunus species) should be pruned soon after flowering to reduce the risk of bacterial infection. Maple, Birch, Beech and Walnut should be pruned in leaf or just after leaf fall and Magnolia in high summer to avoid 'bleeding' (excluding sap), which although not considered damaging, can be unsightly"......

Oldtree

Good man keep me on my toes so it needs further explaination:

Section 4: When to prune
As a general rule pruning should be avoided during the time of leaf/needle production (when the tree draws on its energy reserves) and at the time of leaf/needle fall (when the tree stores energy). Outside these periods most trees can be pruned at any time of the year, with a few exceptions:

Cherry, Plum and related trees (Prunus species) should be pruned soon after flowering to reduce the risk of bacterial infection. Maple, Birth, Beech and Walnut should be pruned in leaf or just after leaf fall and Magnolia in high summer to avoid 'bleeding' (excluding sap), which although not considered damaging, can be unsightly.

So section 4 starts with pruning should be done (generally summer or winter and not spring or autumn), following on from (ie bareing the first paragraph in mind) that should summer pruning be done then for certain trees it is best done at the above mentioned times, its not indicating the best times in the year to prune those trees. The Phenology paper is then very clear about the optimum time to prune.

paddy147

Not keeping anyone on their toes,far from it in fact (as im not experienced enough).

Just reading what it says in black and white,on that website link you posted.:)

What does section 4 say about birch again??

What does "in leaf" mean??

Oldtree

Have another read

Outside these periods most trees can be pruned at any time of the year, with a few exceptions:

so outside of winter and summer ie in autumn and spring

most trees can be pruned

except.... the few that should not be pruned in spring and autumn, ie in leaf.

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

Have another read

Outside these periods most trees can be pruned at any time of the year, with a few exceptions:

so outside of winter and summer ie in autumn and spring

most trees can be pruned

except.... the few that should not be pruned in spring and autumn, ie in leaf.

But what does it say in section 4 about "Birch"?

I mean you said that you prune "birch" in wintertime.

Oldtree wrote: »

It is best to prune Birch in winter, using target pruning.

Does it say that in section 4?

Oldtree

the sentence starts outside these periods what does that mean to you?

What the whole sentence means is that you dont prune birch in spring or autumn when the tree is coming into leaf or going out of leaf. The tree, if pruned in summer,should only be pruned when in leaf, but in the context of the sentence it is obvious from the start of the sentence that winter is the best time to prune the tree?

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

the sentence starts outside these periods what does that mean to you?

What the whole sentence means is that you dont prune birch in spring or autumn when the tree is coming into leaf or going out of leaf. The tree, if pruned in summer,should only be pruned when in leaf, but in the context of the sentence it is obvious from the start of the sentence that winter is the best time to prune the tree?

Read that link and particulary section 4 again,as you are tripping up over yourself now.;)

I,ll chat with you later on this evening,as Im off to liquid feed my gardens now.:)

Regards.

Oldtree

I use an organic liquid feed and add concentrated seaweed to boost the micronutrients, and sprinkle a bit of chicken manure here and there.

Anyway perhaps they have worded it badly (perhaps for commercial reasons)on the website and I am only adding to the mess so hopefully they put it better here:

http://www.birch-tree.com/3-birch-tree.htm

The pruning of birch trees should be avoided unless absolutely necessary. If necessary, prune in the fall during the tree's dormancy period.

so the optimum time to prune birch is when the sap has stopped flowing and the leaves have fallen, and before the sap starts flowing, which can be as early as as feburary

and

second optimum time - mid summer before energy is being used for shutdown. (penology bit)

It must be said that birch do not respond well to heavy pruning and it is best to prune for shape when the wounds would only be small and allow the tree to seal over the wounds quickly as birch is very prone to decay. The right tree in the right place as birch can get very tall very quickly.

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

Have another read

Outside these periods most trees can be pruned at any time of the year, with a few exceptions:

so outside of winter and summer ie in autumn and spring

most trees can be pruned

except.... the few that should not be pruned in spring and autumn, ie in leaf.

So if the Birch tree is "in leaf" then that doesnt include Summer when there are "leaves" on the tree??

"In Leaf" doesnt include Summer then???

Thanks.:)

Oldtree

You have me there, now I'm totally confused, the hole gets deeper, I'm off to water my baskets.

As long as you are having fun in the garden and the deputy head gardener is doing what she is told then all is right with the world.

The only specific references to birch pruning I can find in my books are (see attached):

"This should only be done after sapflow in spring (i.e. June) or shortly before leaf fall in autumn (i.e. late October), otherwise there is risk of discolouration and rot."

but this is from The Birch Woodland management Handbook august 1999 and the pruning is done for commercial reasons ie the discolouration they refer to in the wood is part of the trees defence system against pathogen ingress.

so no definitive answer there either.

and this isnt helpful either:

RHS: When pruning is required, prune only when fully dormant from late summer to before mid-winter. in leaf out leaf???

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/Profile.aspx?pid=717#section2

paddy147

Oldtree wrote: »

You have me there, now I'm totally confused, the hole gets deeper, I'm off to water my baskets.

As long as you are having fun in the garden and the deputy head gardener is doing what she is told then all is right with the world.

The only specific references to birch pruning I can find in my books are (see attached):

"This should only be done after sapflow in spring (i.e. June) or shortly before leaf fall in autumn (i.e. late October), otherwise there is risk of discolouration and rot."

but this is from The Birch Woodland management Handbook august 1999 and the pruning is done for commercial reasons ie the discolouration they refer to in the wood is part of the trees defence system against pathogen ingress.

so no definitive answer there either.

and this isnt helpful either:

RHS: When pruning is required, prune only when fully dormant from late summer to before mid-winter. in leaf out leaf???

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/Profile.aspx?pid=717#section2

The "deputy gardener" would be me.:D

Lets just say that my missus is the sheriff,and rather experienced in gardening,absolutely loves her gardening,plants,trees and flowers a hell of alot.;)

muckyhands

Trees have always been traditionally pruned in Winter and this is often for convenience more than anything- litte else to do, no leaves on tree so easier to see its structure.....

My two cents worth.....

In Spring the tree is busy producing new leaves, dont stress it out by pruning.

In Autumn the tree is busy shutting off the supply to its leaves for leaf drop, dont stress it out by pruning.

In Winter the tree is dormant and does not have the means to occlude wounds so..... dont stress it out by pruning.

In Mid-late Summer the tree is not so busy, now is the time to prune.

Exceptions of course, example Apples/ Pears where pruning is carried out at a certain time of year for disease prevention.

Pruning is such a pain in the backside- you have to decide whats best for your particular one.

On one hand you may not want to lose the following years flowers by pruning at the wrong time, so prune after flowering.

On the other hand this may not be the best time re disease prevention. :rolleyes:

Circumstances will prevail, in the case of Birch I woud be inclined to prune in Summer. The tree has the means to occlude the wound, its not 'busy' doing other things and the leaves are there to take up the sap rather than have it bleed.

The Sheriff. :D:D

Oldtree

howdy kemosaby, I am about to impale myself on this double edges sword!! Hi ho silver away....

A tree works under negative pressure so when pruned in summer it will suck in some air at that initial point (then bleed if a bleeder) and as the pathogen spores are all around in the air they are sucked in too, so making it easier for them to get into the tree and get busy. (Aparently there are more pathogens in the air in autumn)

There may be a point here that by bleeding the birch prevents some of the pathogens getting in as against other trees. Pine does somthing similar with its sticky sap.

But how to quantify any benefits over less pathogens in the air in winter vs more in summer and open wound for longer in winter vs quicker occlusion in summer I dont know and havent seen any papers on.

As a rule I always prune my shrubs after flowering.