US Prisons

superluck

Governments profusely tell us all "there is no money" for education and health along with other services which benefit a nation but they do have money for other things (military, anti-terrorism, anti-drugs)

Prisons

It has 5% of the population but houses 25% of the worlds prison population, what country is it?

Many people will argue that the number of people locked up indicates the efficiency of the judicial system showing intolerence for crime ..but another theory is that it simply pays the rich well to lock people up.

The US has increased spending on prisons 72% between 1997 and 2007



Most prisons are operated by companies that openly trade on the stock exchange but the 2 main that profit more than any other are Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) and The GEO Group Inc.
These companies were founded in the early 80s just before the huge spike in incarcerations you see above.

Both companies made a combined profit of $2.9 bln in revenues for 2010.
So is it a case that people are being locked up for profit?



Is it just a coincidence the 2 biggest profiteers from the prison system are companies founded in early 1980s?

Run_to_da_hills

Those statistics don't even take into consideration the hundreds of empty Fema Concentration camps re educational facilities that are dotted throughout the US that are have yet to be filled with decedents rounded up under recently introduced Martial law executrices

Daithi 1

Says it all in a nutshell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofZS1gVaDcI

studiorat

Other countries have more prisoners, the US system seems to serve longer sentences. Apparently drug offenses account for nearly 2/3's of all inmates. Thus the spike would correspond with Regan's "War on Drugs" legislation from the late 1980's.

Another cause for the rise is female incarceration, which has risen, also drug related.

The increase is also a result of them closing large mental institutions. Where prisons have become the new mental illness asylums.

hooradiation

studiorat wrote: »

Other countries have more prisoners, the US system seems to serve longer sentences. Apparently drug offenses account for nearly 2/3's of all inmates. Thus the spike would correspond with Regan's "War on Drugs" legislation from the late 1980's.

Another cause for the rise is female incarceration, which has risen, also drug related.

The increase is also a result of them closing large mental institutions. Where prisons have become the new mental illness asylums.

Yeah, ignoring the old "FEMA CAMPS!" and attention seeking putzes combining balaclavas and sunglasses because...... fuck knows why, the war on drugs has placed a colossal strain on the US prison system and filled it with people, as has been rightly pointed out, are mostly there for drug related crimes.

It's that weird puritanical streak that runs through the US that leads to this attitude, sadly.
And because Drugs == bad is such a truism (and one not limited to the US either) it'd be political suicide to challenge or scrap the war on drugs doctrine. At least for about another twenty years or so, I'd think.
Unless the US went batshit loco and elected a libertarian president or something equally drastic in the interm.

Of course, where there is opportunity there is profit, and I am uncomfortable with the idea of prisons run by anyone but the state. But the war on drugs doctrine and the wider "tough on crime" notion can't really be considered conspiracies - the latter being a staple of every political campaign since, forever, really.

RoboClam

I feel pretty strongly about this and was actually considering making a thread on this.

The prison system in America is ridiculous. As you say, there is a great profit associated with the current set-up, which makes it unlikely to change. I guess you could call that a conspiracy. The system targets the poor and the uneducated, doesn't offer any real rehabilitation and thus, ensures that these people re offend.


http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/DAED_a_00019

A large amount of the population of the US don't care too. They have the mentality that "If you can't do the crime, don't do the time". There is a feeling that people are now safer because of the number of people behind bars. But as Studiorat rightly points out, the increase is largely due to the War on Drugs; incidences of violent crime itself have actually been decreasing since the early 90's, but this is not reflected in the incarceration levels.

Certain prisons are definitely set up to make a profit, sure it's written in their constitution that:

13th ammendment wrote:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

So slavery is OK sometimes it seems. A great example of this is the Louisiana State Penitentiary, known as "The Farm". This used to be a plantation where black slaves were made to work the land for their wealthy masters, but now the population of inmates (a majority of which are black) work the land for their wealthy masters. Yeah...

hooradiation

RoboClam wrote: »

A large amount of the population of the US don't care too. They have the mentality that "If you can't do the crime, don't do the time". There is a feeling that people are now safer because of the number of people behind bars. But as Studiorat rightly points out, the increase is largely due to the War on Drugs; incidences of violent crime itself have actually been decreasing since the early 90's, but this is not reflected in the incarceration levels.

As a quick perusal of AH will tell you, if you can stand it that is, people are pretty ok with prisoners being stripped of their human rights and they deserve everything they get. And probably more.
Rehabilitation is derided as being "soft on crime". It's a maddening circular argument to witness.

So it's not a US only failing, to be fair.

RoboClam

hooradiation wrote: »

As a quick perusal of AH will tell you, if you can stand it that is, people are pretty ok with prisoners being stripped of their human rights and they deserve everything they get. And probably more.
Rehabilitation is derided as being "soft on crime". It's a maddening circular argument to witness.

Yeah, I've gotten into heated "real life" arguments with people who want the death penalty in Ireland.

So it's not a US only failing, to be fair.

Fair point, I didn't mean to say that it is just a problem with America. I was alluding to what you said earlier, that "It'd be political suicide to challenge or scrap the war on drugs doctrine"

"Tough on crime" is now the status quo among the population of the US (and elsewhere), so the system is unlikely to change. It boggles my mind really, people only seem to want to incarcerate (or execute) people for revenge. They can say that it's a preventative measure, but the figures just don't add up.

Look at our good friend Sheriff Joe Arpaio. How that guy continues to get re-elected I'll never know.

hooradiation

RoboClam wrote: »

Fair point, I didn't mean to say that it is just a problem with America. I was alluding to what you said earlier, that "It'd be political suicide to challenge or scrap the war on drugs doctrine"

Yeah, I just wanted to head off the "AMERICA IS EVULL" angle before it started.

RoboClam wrote: »

"Tough on crime" is now the status quo among the population of the US (and elsewhere), so the system is unlikely to change. It boggles my mind really, people only seem to want to incarcerate (or execute) people for revenge. They can say that it's a preventative measure, but the figures just don't add up.

Well, the debate between punishment and rehabilitation is one that's unlikely to go away, but I guess it's human nature to take the path which offers the most reward for the least effort i.e. lock people up and forget about them.

It'd take a serious attitude shift to change our outlook to something like the Norwegian one.

RoboClam wrote: »

Look at our good friend Sheriff Joe Arpaio. How that guy continues to get re-elected I'll never know.

If it's any consolation, the DoJ is actively fucking with him and his percentage of the vote has been falling from election to election.
Though while he may not survive another election, he's staffed maricopa county with people just as bad as himself so it might be a while until his taint is removed from the system.

gibraltar

this is an interesting clip that highlights some of the issues

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPZed8af9RI

RichieC

Land of the free, indeed.

Run_to_da_hills

RichieC wrote: »

Land of the free, indeed.

The land of the digitally enslaved.

Belfast

"Tuesday, February 07, 2012
America's Prison Population. 6 Million Modern Day Slaves.
This came in this morning. You can see clearly the direction the big corporations want to take things. More people being locked up means more profits for the corporations who exploit them. It's modern day slavery. The numbers being locked up are growing every year. Private prisons are moving out from the US into countries like Britain. This is what they bring. Read it."

http://the-tap.blogspot.com/2012/02/americas-prison-population-6-million.html

Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution
"The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution officially outlaws slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. It was passed by the Senate on April 8, 1864, by the House on January 31, 1865, and adopted on December 6, 1865. On December 18, Secretary of State William H. Seward proclaimed it to have been adopted. It was the first of the three Reconstruction Amendments adopted after the American Civil War."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Looks like the American civil did not stop slavery.

godtabh

superluck wrote: »

Governments profusely tell us all "there is no money" for education and health along with other services which benefit a nation but they do have money for other things (military, anti-terrorism, anti-drugs)

Prisons

It has 5% of the population but houses 25% of the worlds prison population, what country is it?

Many people will argue that the number of people locked up indicates the efficiency of the judicial system showing intolerence for crime ..but another theory is that it simply pays the rich well to lock people up.

The US has increased spending on prisons 72% between 1997 and 2007



Most prisons are operated by companies that openly trade on the stock exchange but the 2 main that profit more than any other are Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) and The GEO Group Inc.
These companies were founded in the early 80s just before the huge spike in incarcerations you see above.

Both companies made a combined profit of $2.9 bln in revenues for 2010.
So is it a case that people are being locked up for profit?



Is it just a coincidence the 2 biggest profiteers from the prison system are companies founded in early 1980s?

There is a difference between revenue and profit. Which is it?

man.about.town

if we actually locked up our criminals for a reasonable amnount of time, we would have a pretty safe country. sit in any court, read any newspaper and you'll hear time and time again, these criminals have so many criminal convictions some over a 100. i have never come to adverse garda attention, its not hard, every single person on this planet knows the difference between right and wrong. its not complex, there are just so many scumbags in ireland, leeching the tax payers.

sick of ireland and its tolerance of crime. do gooders and there blah blah blah

Run_to_da_hills

man.about.town wrote: »

if we actually locked up our criminals for a reasonable amnount of time, we would have a pretty safe country. sit in any court, read any newspaper and you'll hear time and time again, these criminals have so many criminal convictions some over a 100. i have never come to adverse garda attention, its not hard, every single person on this planet knows the difference between right and wrong. its not complex, there are just so many scumbags in ireland, leeching the tax payers.

sick of ireland and its tolerance of crime. do gooders and there blah blah blah

Were at the opposite end. Someone mows down a Garda at speed and gets sent off to a holiday camp for 7 years and escapes a year later.

man.about.town

man.about.town wrote: »

if we actually locked up our criminals for a reasonable amnount of time, we would have a pretty safe country. sit in any court, read any newspaper and you'll hear time and time again, these criminals have so many criminal convictions some over a 100. i have never come to adverse garda attention, its not hard, every single person on this planet knows the difference between right and wrong. its not complex, there are just so many scumbags in ireland, leeching the tax payers.

sick of ireland and its tolerance of crime. do gooders and there blah blah blah

Yet we've a much lower murder rate. Funny that.

namloc1980

superluck wrote: »

Most prisons are operated by companies that openly trade on the stock exchange but the 2 main that profit more than any other are Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) and The GEO Group Inc.

Not true I'm afraid. Per the Bureau of Justice Statistics just 8% of the US prison population is housed in private prisons. Click here to see the stats. Appendix Table 19 - 8% for the year ended 31/12/2010.

superluck wrote: »

Both companies made a combined profit of $2.9 bln in revenues for 2010.
So is it a case that people are being locked up for profit?

Profit and Revenue is not the same. According to their published accounts CCA made a net profit in 2011 after tax of $162m ($157m for 2010) and GEO made a net profit in 2011 after tax of $76m ($59m for 2010).

Run_to_da_hills

It wouldn't surprise me if the US authorities are using slave labour from prisons to build these increasing number of FEMA concentration re educational camps. Prison labour would also make sense if the US authorities want to keep a lid on the situation.

studiorat

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Were at the opposite end. Someone mows down a Garda at speed and gets sent off to a holiday camp for 7 years and escapes a year later.

RFID would have sorted that out sharpish.

Should have chipped him perhaps?

Run_to_da_hills

studiorat wrote: »

RFID would have sorted that out sharpish.

Should have chipped him perhaps?

That would be no good until they can eliminate cash.

SupaNova

:eek: The first graph is shocking.

Run_to_da_hills

SupaNova wrote: »

:eek: The first graph is shocking.

And that was six years ago, I wonder has it leveled off since Obama took office?

SIR PEADO BAILOUT

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

And that was six years ago, I wonder has it leveled off since Obama took office?

Doubt it he`s a bigger cnut than da last cnut and dats my Florida hols fooked

Run_to_da_hills

Slavery by a different name, the convict lease system. interesting article.

"After the Civil War, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Constitutional amendments were passed which aided newly freed slaves in being equally treated under the law, or so the story goes. The fact of the matter is that slavery was - and still is - completely legal in the United States; and not only that, but it took on a much different form".

http://www.activistpost.com/2012/05/slavery-by-different-name-convict-lease.html

Undergod

Lads I'm disappointed no one has put this up.

troposphere

kryogen

Longer sentences in Ireland would be quite nice, a guy I know, who has previous convictions for beating his girlfriend and defecating on her, biting a Garda and drug possession with intent to supply was sentenced last week for fracturing a guys skull with a wheel brace last year in an attack that almost killed the guy.

He was given 5 years, with the last 2 suspended, and you can guarantee he will get more time off for "good behaviour" also.

Unfortunately balance is something that seems hard to find in the legal system regarding punishment. As has been mentioned, you will often read in the paper about someone with 100 previous convictions getting a suspended sentence. This is just ridiculous to me. The American system is far from perfect, it has huge flaws and I would not try to say any otherwise, I would not want it as it is in place in Ireland. But I am far from happy with the Irish system also.

stuar

Poor Cornell Hood, a 35 year old got LIFE for his 4th time caught with weed, WTF?

Cornell Hood's Fourth Marijuana Conviction Results In Life Sentence.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/08/cornell-hood-marijuana-prison-life-sentence_n_859168.html

And Marc Emery, sentenced to 5 years in US for selling weed in CANADA!

American authorities charged Emery and co-defendants Gregory Keith Williams, 50, of Vancouver, BC and Michelle Rainey-Fenkarek, 34, of Vancouver, BC with "'Conspiracy to Distribute Marijuana", "Conspiracy to Distribute Marijuana Seeds" and "Conspiracy to Engage in Money Laundering". Even though all the alleged offenses occurred in Canada, Canadian police did not lay any charges

I read a few years ago about an 18 year old in the US also sentenced to life for selling weed because it was just inside a 5 mile radius of a school.

Then you have the murderers that are free by way of plea bargaining, great system

Daithi 1

kryogen wrote: »

Longer sentences in Ireland would be quite nice, a guy I know, who has previous convictions for beating his girlfriend and defecating on her, biting a Garda and drug possession with intent to supply was sentenced last week for fracturing a guys skull with a wheel brace last year in an attack that almost killed the guy.

That's a really long sentence.

troposphere

stuar wrote: »

Poor Cornell Hood, a 35 year old got LIFE for his 4th time caught with weed, WTF?

Cornell Hood's Fourth Marijuana Conviction Results In Life Sentence.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/08/cornell-hood-marijuana-prison-life-sentence_n_859168.html

And Marc Emery, sentenced to 5 years in US for selling weed in CANADA!


I read a few years ago about an 18 year old in the US also sentenced to life for selling weed because it was just inside a 5 mile radius of a school.

Then you have the murderers that are free by way of plea bargaining, great system

Looks like he will still have the opportunity to get arrested for the same crime for a 5th time someday in the future. Parole eligible after serving 1/3 or 1/2 of his sentence depending on how they classify him.

A Slidell-area man who had been given life imprisonment for too many marijuana-related convictions saw that punishment vacated Tuesday and received a significantly lighter sentence.

Cornell Hood II, 36, must instead serve 25 years, state Judge Raymond S. Childress ruled. He also has the possibility of getting parole sometime in the future.

stuar

He didn't do too bad I suppose in the end, he'll only be 60 when released.

kryogen

Daithi 1 wrote: »

That's a really long sentence.

It sure is, almost as long as my cock in fact.

FISMA

superluck wrote: »

Most prisons are operated by companies that openly trade on the stock exchange but the 2 main that profit more than any other are Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) and The GEO Group Inc.

Would you care to back up your above claim?

Define "operated." Are you saying that these companies stock the coke machines or that they run the prisons?

If so, then these private institution pay public employees (corrections officers) and their pensions?

Also, 50% of US prisons? Again, let's see your source.

troposphere

It is more like 125,000/1,600,000 housed in private prisons or 8% of the prison population

FISMA

troposphere wrote: »

It is more like 125,000/1,600,000 housed in private prisons or 8% of the prison population

If I were to bet, I would say that the private prisons cost the taxpayers less.

troposphere

FISMA wrote: »

If I were to bet, I would say that the private prisons cost the taxpayers less.

From Arizona Department of Corrections

2010
Daily per capita cost

Minimum security

state: $46.59
private: $46.56

Medium security

state: $48.42
private: $53.02

[link]

Zagato

troposphere wrote: »

FISMA wrote: »

If I were to bet, I would say that the private prisons cost the taxpayers less.

From Arizona Department of Corrections

2010
Daily per capita cost

Minimum security

state: $46.59
private: $46.56

Medium security

state: $48.42
private: $53.02

[link]

That seems pretty cheap, Works out at about €14,000 per annum per prisoner

troposphere

Zagato wrote: »

That seems pretty cheap, Works out at about €14,000 per annum per prisoner

I believe it varies greatly from state to state. I know the reported figure in my state is $45,000 but I have never seen a report. Just my personal opinion but lots of costs concerning locking people up are probably standard and when you take away retirement and benefits but add profit for a private corporation I doubt there is much in it.

FISMA

troposphere wrote: »

Minimum security
state: $46.59
private: $46.56

Medium security
state: $48.42
private: $53.02
[link]

Thanks for the link Troposphere.

Do state employees of AZ prisons receive pensions? If they do, the above costs are going to skyrocket.

The report takes care of the daily ops of prisons. Once an officer retires, they are [in most states] paid via the state. This cost no longer appears in the line item budget of prisons.

In general, there's not much that the state can do that private industry cannot do better.

stuar

The prison industry in the United States: big business or a new form of slavery?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8289

Human rights organizations, as well as political and social ones, are condemning what they are calling a new form of inhumane exploitation in the United States, where they say a prison population of up to 2 million - mostly Black and Hispanic - are working for various industries for a pittance. For the tycoons who have invested in the prison industry, it has been like finding a pot of gold.

They don't have to worry about strikes or paying unemployment insurance, vacations or comp time. All of their workers are full-time, and never arrive late or are absent because of family problems; moreover, if they don't like the pay of 25 cents an hour and refuse to work, they are locked up in isolation cells.

"The private contracting of prisoners for work fosters incentives to lock people up. Prisons depend on this income. Corporate stockholders who make money off prisoners work lobby for longer sentences, in order to expand their workforce. The system feeds itself," says a study by the Progressive Labor Party, which accuses the prison industry of being "an imitation of Nazi Germany with respect to forced slave labor and concentration camps."

There I was thinking slavery was outlawed, just seems it was outsourced.

Here's a nice documentary I just came across.

Torture Inc. Americas Brutal Prisons

Savaged by dogs, Electrocuted With Cattle Prods, Burned By Toxic Chemicals, Does such barbaric abuse inside U.S. jails explain the horrors that were committed in Iraq?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8451.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWxpQ87C4t4

Run_to_da_hills

stuar wrote: »

Savaged by dogs, Electrocuted With Cattle Prods, Burned By Toxic Chemicals, Does such barbaric abuse inside U.S. jails explain the horrors that were committed in Iraq?

Iraq is just a testing ground for weaponry and technology that will no doubt be leashed on the ordinary citizens of the US. Weapon carrying unmanned aerial drones is just the beginning

Run_to_da_hills

This has now started in the UK.

"Prisoners paid £15 a day to man phones in solar panel call centre, but union boss says move has cost jobs"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2185407/Prisoners-paid-15-day-man-phones-solar-panel-centre-union-boss-says-cost-jobs.html#ixzz22z6VXAcb

Run_to_da_hills

US breeds a Chinese-style inmate labor scheme on its own soil. Both state and some of the biggest private companies are now enjoying the fruits of a cheap and readily available work force, with tens of millions of dollars spent by private prisons to keep their jails full.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CySzoJFkTA8

asherbassad

FISMA wrote: »

If I were to bet, I would say that the private prisons cost the taxpayers less.

Why would a corporation want to cost the taxpayer less? The taxpayer is there to be ripped off. The private prisons feed inmates absolute muck but then charge the DoJ as if they'd fed them Michelin Star cuisine and this in turn is passed on to the taxpayer.

Same scam happens with the privatisation of the war industry. Aegis, Blackwater, DynCorp, whatever, charge the DoD say, $1500 a day for a mercenary to guard a convoy or drive around Baghdad harassing people. Mercenary gets $800 into his pocket, company pockets $700, DoD pays up, taxpayer ultimately foots the bill. Corporation and stockholders are delighted, government doesn't give a sh!t and taxpayer, as usual, is the sucker.

Like wise with KBR, Halliburton, etc. They pick up Army's dirty linen and charge $100 to clean it. They charge $10 for a can of coke for each GI dinner, etc.

Cheaper to the taxpayer....:pac:

The taxes generated each year is just this vast pot of gold that corporations salivate over. They see it as "their money".

Torakx

And thats before interest is paid back for this laundered money.