Ka sat issues....

makavelithedon

As a bit of a satellite enthusiast, and having taken delivery of my used sat meter (ebays finest) I am attempting to set up a multi lnb system with a triax 78 cm dish. I have a triax multi lnb holder and was hoping to pick up 3 or 4 satellites. I was hoping to start with Astra 28.2 + Saorsat and maybe add some more Lnbs when I can afford it.
I can get the dish to lock on to Astra 28.2 no problem, but I cannot seem to pick up eurobird 9'E for the Saorsat at all. I tried each one singularly, with my old Lnb and also with my new shiny ka band Lnb, to no avail. The nearest I can get seems to be hotbird 13'E.
I am starting to think the meter (horizon hdsm-usb) must be faulty, just my luck.
Or maybe I am doing something wrong.....
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, cheers guys....

Peter Rhea

So all this is with a single lnb in the original holder?

B bopp

The meter you have won't pick up the 9e signal when the ka lnb is in place. you will need to align the dish with the universal lnb first and then change to ka lnb. In my experience to date you align the dish with 9e and then get 28 with an extension arm. You would have to remount the triax multi lnb holder off centre to bridge the 19 degree gap. it is fiddly but it will work. have you updated the meter since you received it.... might be a good idea to check for latest firmware.

makavelithedon

Peter Rhea wrote: »

So all this is with a single lnb in the original holder?

Yes I tried both Lnbs (Ka and universal) on their own in the original holder, and could not lock onto 9'E with either of them.

makavelithedon

B bopp wrote: »

The meter you have won't pick up the 9e signal when the ka lnb is in place. you will need to align the dish with the universal lnb first and then change to ka lnb. In my experience to date you align the dish with 9e and then get 28 with an extension arm. You would have to remount the triax multi lnb holder off centre to bridge the 19 degree gap. it is fiddly but it will work. have you updated the meter since you received it.... might be a good idea to check for latest firmware.

So it should lock on to 9'E using the universal Lnb?? I couldnt manage it...
No I have not updated the meter, I only just got it a week ago....
Looking at the dish from the front, when finished, the Ka Lnb should be to the left of the universal one???

Apogee

makavelithedon wrote: »

So it should lock on to 9'E using the universal Lnb?? I couldnt manage it...
No I have not updated the meter, I only just got it a week ago....
Looking at the dish from the front, when finished, the Ka Lnb should be to the left of the universal one???

In theory, the meter can lock 9E with either the Ka or Universal LNBFs. However, the probability that the settings for Saorsat are pre-configured in the meter are zero - so you'd have to configure the meter for Saorsat yourself.

One would expect that the Ku freqs for Eurobird 9A would be in the meter already, but it would be no harm to update the meter to be sure. It's generally easier to get going on Ku-band than Ka-band when starting out.

The dish acts as a mirror, so with the following example, the dish is aligned on 16E (white LNBF), the Ka-LNBF is to the right, and the Universal LNBF for Astra 28E is to the left.

makavelithedon

Thanks for the help folks! Im starting to think maybe a 78cm dish is too small for 9'E in north west Co Mayo??

Apogee

makavelithedon wrote: »

Thanks for the help folks! Im starting to think maybe a 78cm dish is too small for 9'E in north west Co Mayo??

78cm is more than enough for Ku-band Eurobird 9A, and should be fine for Saorsat in NW Mayo. If you've got 13E, then mark the azimuth on the pole and note the elevation of the dish. Raise the elevation slightly and slowly move the dish eastwards.

Galway

Apogee wrote: »

78cm is more than enough for Ku-band Eurobird 9A, and should be fine for Saorsat in NW Mayo. If you've got 13E, then mark the azimuth on the pole and note the elevation of the dish. Raise the elevation slightly and slowly move the dish eastwards.

I am using a Triax TD88 dish, aligned on 19E and LNBs for 13E and 9E (SaorSat). The Saorsat signal seems quite low on my VUO + Duo, max max I get is 35%-40% quality. That said, the signal seems quite robust. I was told SAORSAT isnt on full power yet? I am based 16 miles north of Galway City.

steveon

U mite need to update the meters software...what kind are u using? U will need to use an universal lnb to lock onto it unless u have an s2 meter.

B bopp

Galway wrote: »

Apogee wrote: »

78cm is more than enough for Ku-band Eurobird 9A, and should be fine for Saorsat in NW Mayo. If you've got 13E, then mark the azimuth on the pole and note the elevation of the dish. Raise the elevation slightly and slowly move the dish eastwards.

I am using a Triax TD88 dish, aligned on 19E and LNBs for 13E and 9E (SaorSat). The Saorsat signal seems quite low on my VUO + Duo, max max I get is 35%-40% quality. That said, the signal seems quite robust. I was told SAORSAT isnt on full power yet? I am based 16 miles north of Galway City.

My thinking on that is that you would be better aligning the dish with 13e and then getting 19 and 9 with the offsets. the saorsat beam i think is too focused to really have it on too much of an offset.

Ronnie Raygun

It's too low powered to work well with an offset on a sensible size dish & seemingly that's as good as it's going to get.

makavelithedon

Is it hard to update the meter? I got a lead with it, how would I go about it? Hook the meter up to the laptop and?? If somebody could post a link/url to the relevant software I would be very grateful......
And ill give it another go on this fine sunny day!!:cool:

Peter Rhea

Have a look here; http://www.horizonhge.com/downloads.html. Sat. lists here.

The manual explains the procedure.

Sponge Bob

I reckon if you want the lot from 9e to 28e ( inc 19e and 13e) and space to mount the lnbs you could be looking at a 1m dish or else a Toroidal. which is designed for that weight/loading of LNBs See this thread with pics.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056562645

Galway

B bopp wrote: »

My thinking on that is that you would be better aligning the dish with 13e and then getting 19 and 9 with the offsets. the saorsat beam i think is too focused to really have it on too much of an offset.

No I want 13 E as one of the offsets and 9 east as the other, so I was told to align it on 19E for that configuration.

B bopp

Galway wrote: »

B bopp wrote: »

My thinking on that is that you would be better aligning the dish with 13e and then getting 19 and 9 with the offsets. the saorsat beam i think is too focused to really have it on too much of an offset.

No I want 13 E as one of the offsets and 9 east as the other, so I was told to align it on 19E for that configuration.

And just out of curiosity why would you want the dish set that way.surely you would be better with the weakest on primary and the good signals on offset.

Galway

B bopp wrote: »

And just out of curiosity why would you want the dish set that way.surely you would be better with the weakest on primary and the good signals on offset.

So if I align it on 13e then, the i can align one LNB on 13 and the other on 9e?

B bopp

Galway wrote: »

B bopp wrote: »

And just out of curiosity why would you want the dish set that way.surely you would be better with the weakest on primary and the good signals on offset.

So if I align it on 13e then, the i can align one LNB on 13 and the other on 9e?

Yeah, through primary on 13e with 9e closer to its focal and 19e would be no bother as its a huge beam i

Galway

B bopp wrote: »

Yeah, through primary on 13e with 9e closer to its focal and 19e would be no bother as its a huge beam i

I dont need 19E only 13E and 9E.

Ronnie Raygun

Galway wrote: »

No I want 13 E as one of the offsets and 9 east as the other, so I was told to align it on 19E for that configuration.

So you've got 28E on that dish as well? That's the only conceivable reason to align on 19.

Galway

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

So you've got 28E on that dish as well? That's the only conceivable reason to align on 19.

No I havent, but the guy that advised me to aligin it on 19e , did.

I will realign so on 13 east.

B bopp

Galway wrote: »

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

So you've got 28E on that dish as well? That's the only conceivable reason to align on 19.

No I havent, but the guy that advised me to aligin it on 19e , did.

I will realign so on 13 east.

if its only 9 and 13e that you need align it to 9 and offset to 13e. I think is a better solution.

Ronnie Raygun

Galway wrote: »

No I havent, but the guy that advised me to aligin it on 19e , did.

I will realign so on 13 east.

What kind of offset holder are you using? Is it one of the Triax ones? Do you actually have an lnb at 19E or did you align there & then just fit 2 offsets to 1 side & no prime focus?

An unmodified Triax multi holder won't allow an lnb at the prime focus of the dish.

Galway

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

What kind of offset holder are you using? Is it one of the Triax ones? Do you actually have an lnb at 19E or did you align there & then just fit 2 offsets to 1 side & no prime focus?

An unmodified Triax multi holder won't allow an lnb at the prime focus of the dish.

yes its a Triax one, I know I need to get another hole drilled in it, so I can set the LNB for 13E at the prime focus point. Not to worry, the dish is a backup anyway, I already have a 1.1 motorised and fixed one for 28.2e.

Peter Rhea

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Do you actually have an lnb at 19E or did you align there & then just fit 2 offsets to 1 side & no prime focus?

If it actually was set up this way, it would have to be the strangest I've come across.

Just to get the thread back on track, OP, a rig consisting of nothing but 2 offsets to one side of PF is really not the way to go . . .

Ronnie Raygun

Galway wrote: »

yes its a Triax one, I know I need to get another hole drilled in it, so I can set the LNB for 13E at the prime focus point ...

As already mentioned, if you're serious about Saorsat reception, put it at PF; 13E can look after itself ...

The concepts of multi-sat. on a fixed dish aren't that hard to understand, did you set up the motor yourself?

Apologies to the OP, but I think it's all relevant & educational ...

Galway

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

As already mentioned, if you're serious about Saorsat reception, put it at PF; 13E can look after itself ...

The concepts of multi-sat. on a fixed dish aren't that hard to understand, did you set up the motor yourself?

Apologies to the OP, but I think it's all relevant & educational ...

With the current set up I cant put the LNB for 13E at the PF, as I cant get the LNB in the right place, the LNB holder doesn't allow that

no I didnt set my motorised up myself.

watty

The holder is (_)| or |(_) according to which way round it is on the bar. so if arranged

|(_) (_)| with the arm in the middle the PF is roughly 11 degrees. You can align the left side bracket on 13 with it slightly overhanging arm. To get only 4 degree separation the 9E LNBF with bracket on right side of arm reversed.

It's not possible to have 4 degree separation easily without facing the curves to each other and the straight part with screw at opposite outer sides.

Here is dish aligned on 16E and then LNBF taken off and multiholder put on

West = Left _ 28E ___19E_|_13E_9E_ Right = East

The dish is a mirror, so more "western" LNBS are more East on the multibracket

It's also turned upside down compared with assembly drawing as more tilt is needed in Ireland than France & Germany for 28 19E 13E 9E

Galway

Thats how I have my two LNBs for 13e and 9e, with the dish align on 19e and the tilt of the triaz rail adjusted for optimal reception from both sats.

Ronnie Raygun

It's not optimal reception to have the 2 sats you want offset to 1 side like that, it's a waste of a good dish.

I would either ditch the Triax holder, modify it or try aligning between 13 & 9 east, offsetting 1 each side.

Galway

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

It's not optimal reception to have the 2 sats you want offset to 1 side like that, it's a waste of a good dish.

I would either ditch the Triax holder, modify it or try aligning between 13 & 9 east, offsetting 1 each side.

Any suggested replacement for the Triax rail?

Peter Rhea

Any of the lnb holders that allow you to clamp to the centre lnb should work, especially since it's only one 4 degree offset.

There are pics. of modded Triax holders on various threads here, but none of them have impressed me much tbh.

excollier

Galway wrote: »

Any suggested replacement for the Triax rail?

Try this it works very well, I have istalled a few of these, and allows you to use an lnb on centre, and with it's rail top or bottom, very flexible

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/251061368294?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Galway

excollier wrote: »

Try this it works very well, I have istalled a few of these, and allows you to use an lnb on centre, and with it's rail top or bottom, very flexible

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/251061368294?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649[/QUOT

Do you use the attachment that came with the dish to attach to the LNB arm? Any other source besides ebay?

Peter Rhea

Fit the single lnb as per normal & clamp the multi holder to it. Only thing is you might need a 2nd adaptor ring if you have the 23mm Ka lnb (best not to have it offset for max. signal).

You will find the same or similar holder anywhere that sells sat. stuff.

excollier

Galway wrote: »

excollier wrote: »

Try this it works very well, I have istalled a few of these, and allows you to use an lnb on centre, and with it's rail top or bottom, very flexible

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/251061368294?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649[/QUOT

Do you use the attachment that came with the dish to attach to the LNB arm? Any other source besides ebay?

others are available, but I like this particular multi holder

Ronnie Raygun

Galway wrote: »

Any suggested replacement for the Triax rail?

You could keep it but offset 1 lnb to each side of the feed arm, see how it works out. Read watty's post again.

zg3409

Yes. I would say don't buy another bracket. Mount both LNBs slightly off centre.

You should be able to align 9 East using an Ordinary LNB and tune the normal 9E channels. The actual signal on 9East using a KA LNB is very strong, but drops way down during heavy rain.

The larger the dish the harder it is to set everything up right. I normally recommend people tune their box first on an aligned dish and LNB, instead of having multiple unknowns.

Galway

zg3409 wrote: »

Yes. I would say don't buy another bracket. Mount both LNBs slightly off centre.

You should be able to align 9 East using an Ordinary LNB and tune the normal 9E channels. The actual signal on 9East using a KA LNB is very strong, but drops way down during heavy rain.

The larger the dish the harder it is to set everything up right. I normally recommend people tune their box first on an aligned dish and LNB, instead of having multiple unknowns.

Ok but on what satellite should be dish be centered, given the the Triax rail wont allow you to put one of the LNBs at the PF point.

watty

it allows very near the PF.

zg3409

Galway wrote: »

Ok but on what satellite should be dish be centered, given the the Triax rail wont allow you to put one of the LNBs at the PF point.

There was a whole thread on this topic before:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056508099

In particular this post
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77536577&postcount=89

I would recommend ...mounting the Saorsat LNB off by 5 degrees, and mounting the 28.2 off by 15 degrees.

The more the LNB is offset, the "smaller" dish it sees. We know what size dish 28.2 is needed for various parts of the country, and we know what size dish RTENL recommend for Saorsat. That's how I got my figures.

Ronnie Raygun

Galway wrote: »

Ok but on what satellite should be dish be centered, given the the Triax rail wont allow you to put one of the LNBs at the PF point.

It doesn't have to be centred on an actual satellite position.

stevethesatguy

makavelithedon,

Minimum dish size in Mayo for Saorsat and Astra's on one dish is a 90cm dish aka the Triax TD88 which I have up. Plenty of room for Hotbird and Astra 2, Astra 1 is receivable but weak.

excollier

Astra 1 should be booming in on the TD88 added to that set up, it will be closer to the centre. It does on mine, anyway.

stevethesatguy

I have the dish parked on 19.2 east so the Astra 1 LNB ( when fitted ) is slightly off centre, hence the weaker than normal signal strength

excollier

Yeah, but there should be no issues with strength and quality. Mine is centred on 16e, and gives no trouble with 19.2e.

Galway

stevethesatguy wrote: »

I have the dish parked on 19.2 east so the Astra 1 LNB ( when fitted ) is slightly off centre, hence the weaker than normal signal strength

However, for a 13E and 9E set up (no 28,2E), the two LNBs are sitting side by side to the left of the centre of the rail.

givecredit

stevethesatguy wrote: »

I have the dish parked on 19.2 east so the Astra 1 LNB ( when fitted ) is slightly off centre, hence the weaker than normal signal strength

Park your dish on 16deg. Then put your 3rd lnb to immediate left of prime (facing dish) for 19deg. and immediate right of prime (facing dish) for 13deg east.

Its a waste of a good dish just getting 28deg and 9deg east on it.

Peter Rhea

Galway wrote: »

However, for a 13E and 9E set up (no 28,2E), the two LNBs are sitting side by side to the left of the centre of the rail.

Never mind 19 east, set the dish up for the best reception of the satellites you actually want. 2 lnbs offset to one side & nothing else is a bit stupid tbh.

Ronnie Raygun

Galway wrote: »

However, for a 13E and 9E set up (no 28,2E), the two LNBs are sitting side by side to the left of the centre of the rail.

Using the Triax multiblock, align the dish for best Saorsat reception with the lnb for 9E as close to the centre as possible on the right hand (facing the dish) offset, it's immaterial where the prime focus is as there's no lnb there.

Then add 13E to the left side. Only snag will be if you need to change the tilt of the bar for 13, which would knock out 9E & you'd have to start again, but in Ireland it seems max. tilt is the order of the day.