Who's in the wrong?

mccarte2

Was out for a spin before work earlier this morning around 8.30am. I was passing through this junction in Ranelagh (http://g.co/maps/6kqed) coming from the direction this is taken heading towards town. Traffic was backed up all along so I was going along the inside of the cars in the 'cycle lane'.

As I hit the break in traffic due to the yellow box a car pulled in front of me similar to what the jeep is about to do in the Google Maps pic. As I hadn't anticipated this happening and I had no time to brake I'd no option but to go into the side of the car albeit it not at a huge speed thankfully. Nothing worse than a grazed knee fortunately and the bike is fine.

The driver got out and apologised as he said he'd been given the all clear to turn right by the driver of a vehicle stopped for the yellow box. He seemed more in shock about it than I was!

My main question is though, that by the rules of the road, I assume the driver of the car I crashed into is in the wrong? Or under the unofficial cyclists code am I somewhat in the wrong for not anticipating a car turning right there? Or is the driver of the other car wrong for signalling for the guy to turn right? Are we all wrong?!

07Lapierre

mccarte2 wrote: »

Was out for a spin before work earlier this morning around 8.30am. I was passing through this junction in Ranelagh (http://g.co/maps/6kqed) coming from the direction this is taken heading towards town. Traffic was backed up all along so I was going along the inside of the cars in the 'cycle lane'.

As I hit the break in traffic due to the yellow box a car pulled in front of me similar to what the jeep is about to do in the Google Maps pic. As I hadn't anticipated this happening and I had no time to brake I'd no option but to go into the side of the car albeit it not at a huge speed thankfully. Nothing worse than a grazed knee fortunately and the bike is fine.

The driver got out and apologised as he said he'd been given the all clear to turn right by the driver of a vehicle stopped for the yellow box. He seemed more in shock about it than I was!

My main question is though, that by the rules of the road, I assume the driver of the car I crashed into is in the wrong? Or under the unofficial cyclists code am I somewhat in the wrong for not anticipating a car turning right there? Or is the driver of the other car wrong for signalling for the guy to turn right? Are we all wrong?!

I think you just answered your own question.

Dermot Illogical

All wrong, but you least so imho.
The guy turning can't just rely on a stranger's signal to proceed.
The guy signalling is an idiot.
You should expect idiocy.

jtwoods

RT66 wrote: »

All wrong, but you least so imho.
The guy turning can't just rely on a stranger's signal to proceed.
The guy signalling is an idiot.
You should expect idiocy.

Well said!

Johnny Sacrimoni

The blame is solely with the driver of the car turning. I assume that he had mirrors on his car!:mad:

tomasrojo

Closest call I ever had was in a similar situation. Be very careful entering a clear yellow box when your lane is full. (No idea how responsibility should be apportioned.)

droidus

Technically, the driver should have waited until he could see the way was clear, even if that meant stopping mid-maneuvere and glancing up the cycle lane.

In the real world, you should have anticipated. I cycle through Ranelagh everyday and it can be very hard for both cyclist and driver to see whats going on when there's heavy traffic, so its always worth slowing down in case of cars turning right.

smacl

I would have though that if the guy crossed into your lane without it being clear to do so, he was in the wrong. There's no yield sign, you had the right of way, he should have waited for you to pass.

Being on a bike however, right and wrong are less important than not crashing, and people pulling across you when they shouldn't is very common.

Doctor Bob

Johnny Sacrimoni wrote: »

The blame is solely with the driver of the car turning. I assume that he had mirrors on his car!:mad:

Mirrors are irrelevant- the crossing vehicle was facing the cyclist.

***

You did nothing legally wrong, though your anticipation could have been better, i.e. at yellow boxes you should expect this sort of thing, so when it happens you're not surprised. It's still the job of the crossing driver to proceed with due care and attention, which he appears not to have done.

ford2600

Have a good look at google map.
Guy turning right is crossing three lanes, right turn, straight ahead and Bike lane.
Before he crosses bike any of those lanes he has to satisfy himself its safe to do so.
According to original poster traffic lanes were blocked, junction box was free.
However bike lane wasn't backed up, and should not have been crossed without a careful check.
Therefore motorist turning right is clearly wrong.

It is irrelevant what guy stopped in traffic was doing, and motorist turning right is a fool to heed him.

However, from your position on bike you should anticipate this manoeuvre.
No point be right but injured or worse

jtwoods wrote: »

Well said!

seamus

You are oncoming traffic and therefore have right-of-way, so the right-turning traffic must yield to you. If you were filtering on the left without a cycle lane, this is a little less clear, but as there's a cycle lane there, it's cut-and-dried and the fault was 100% the car driver's as he must ensure that the cycle lane is clear before he can proceed.

The other driver can also bear some responsibility for giving an incorrect signal.

The reality however as you have discovered is that 99% of drivers are completely blind to the existence of cycle lanes and will just turn straight through queued traffic without checking if it's safe to do so.

So in response when you are overtaking a queue of traffic on the left (or indeed on the right), be especially vigilant of gaps in the traffic (whether there's a yellow box or not), and do not proceed through until you're sure that someone isn't going to cross your path. Traffic either coming from your left or your right will not check if you are there, they'll just go when they see the gap.

DePurpereWolf

This happens to me all the time, most of the time I will brake and just get grumpy.
The other day I was happy to see the 'Jeep' car making hand gestures back to the idiot flashing his lights to point me out.

The funny thing is, the idiot shouldn't have to signal! He is not allowed on the yellow box when it's that congested.

But I'll win the tour de france before I see anyone ticketed for stopping on the yellow box.

suzie987

If I had been the car turning, I would have pulled into the yellow box, then stop mid-turn as pointed out above so I could peer down along the cycle lane to ensure it's clear. As a driver in a city with a lot of cyclists, this should just be something which you automatically do.

Also, the driver of the car turning should not have taken someone else's word that the road was clear - always be sure yourself!!

Bluefoam

I've been in a similar situation except I was on a motorcycle. The driver of the car you hit should take due care when crossing your lane - it would seem to me that the accident was his fault. The diver 'directing traffic' could be prosecuted separately, as they are not authorised or (in theory) trained in directing traffic.

In my case the insurance claim was put 100% against the driver who's car I hit. My bike also fell against the car of the person directing traffic - the girls boyfriend started threatening me after the accident and wanted money from me so they would not put in a claim, but when I explained that all parties could potentially put in claims against her, I never heard from him again...

Great thing about bike insurance is that you get roadside legal advice thrown in for free & I was able to establish my innocence very quickly - even though the two other drivers were aggressively blaming me. The Garda on the scene didn't officially offer an opinion, but was standing by the other drivers...

mccarte2

Thanks for the replies folks. Most along the lines of what I expected. Am partly annoyed for not anticipating the car but it was my first spin through morning rush hour traffic in Ranelagh in yonks as I'd normally wait until the evening or weekends. The drivers wife really added to the whole experience by explaining that she was a cyclist so she knew how I felt!! :eek:

Dawn Rider

mccarte2 wrote: »

The drivers wife really added to the whole experience by explaining that she was a cyclist so she knew how I felt!! :eek:

Sore?;)

squeaky crank

i cycle or drive through that junction most days - problem for cars is that you need to be in the cycle lane to see up the cycle lane - especially if there a van or bus in front of the yellow box - so extreme caution is required, by both cyclist and driver - if a cyclist is steaming down that cycle lane in traffic then they technically in the right but are asking for trouble.