Summons for no NCT After Collision

BanzaiBk

Any thoughts on this greatly appreciated.

My brother was involved in a 2 car collision in February 2012. The other party admitted full liability etc. At the time of the crash his NCT was out of date by 3 weeks and he had a date booked for the following day. The car was written off in the collision.

He received a summons yesterday for having no NCT at the time of the collision. He is aware that he will get a fine etc (max 800e?)and to be fair to him he's not moaning about it.
The court date though is right in the middle of holidays that he booked months ago. He seems to think he'll have to forgoe his trip now to attend the court date. I suggested that he should go to tr station and speak to the Garda who instructed the summons and explain that he is going away etc and see if it's possible to rearrange the court date. Would that be possible or am I being ridiculous? He thinks that this is impossible. He has proof that the NCT was booked etc if that makes any difference at all? Could a solicitor go on his behalf?

TIA

Jimbob 83

He has a good case here if he has documented proof of having booked the NCT before it's due date.

Zubeneschamali

BanzaiBk wrote: »

Could a solicitor go on his behalf?

Yes, of course. He's not planning on denying it or launching some legal challenge, so if a solicitor shows up and says Admitted and Regretted, my client had a test booked for the following day, him being on holidays is beside the point.

2 stroke

In my experience judges dont take kindly to client not showing up in court, even if represented. I'd be contacting the court clerk as well as the garda.

Oranage2

Just get a brother to pretend to be him, they dont check.

No point getting a solicitor either really plead guilty show the documents nad hope for the best.



EDIT@ joke

endacl

Oranage2 wrote: »

Just get a brother to pretend to be him, they dont check.

Recommending personation may not be the best legal advice offered on a forum which doesn't offer legal advice...

ResearchWill

Oranage2 wrote: »

Just get a brother to pretend to be him, they dont check.

No point getting a solicitor either really plead guilty show the documents nad hope for the best.

So your advice is don't bother turning up to a summons, get a brother to lie in open court, by one saying he is the accused and by two him pleading guilty to an offence he did not commit. What if the Garda or someone else in court know the brother or accused.

OP, it's not a big deal, as others have advised contact Garda explain issue, contact local DC office and explain issue and if need be contact solicitor. Best bet is to try to adjourn matter to after the holidays or have a solicitor plead in your absence. The clerk will tell you if the local DJ would have an issue with you not being there in reality most would not.

S28382

Oranage2 wrote: »

Just get a brother to pretend to be him, they dont check.

No point getting a solicitor either really plead guilty show the documents nad hope for the best.

That's fair dumb advice

drunkmonkey

Was it a fault with the car that caused the accident, I don't know would I just be taking an €800 fine one the chin if my car was ready for the nct, and it was booked for the next day.

@wiill, can you ask for the case to be prosponed, or a set a side if he doesn't show up and a judgement is made.

BanzaiBk

Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated. He's going to go to the Garda tomorrow and and have a chat with her about it.
Tbh we were a bit surprised that he even got the summons in the first place but I believe all no NCT things must go to court now? He's not denying that he had no NCT but it's still a bit of a kick in the teeth. The Garda report put liability on the other party and their insurance accepted full liability. He's not the type to shake the boat and really just wants to sort it out and be done with it.

So tomorrow he'll go to the Gardai to set up a meeting with the Garda who instructed the summons. Should he push for it to be settled as he had the NCT booked? It'd be a joke if he has to miss his holidays imo over this. I'll report back afterwards. Thanks

ResearchWill

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Was it a fault with the car that caused the accident, I don't know would I just be taking an €800 fine one the chin if my car was ready for the nct, and it was booked for the next day.

@wiill, can you ask for the case to be prosponed, or a set a side if he doesn't show up and a judgement is made.

Yes of course you can ask for an adjournment, best to do so as early as possible, the local Clerk or solicitor will advise. It's a criminal matter so judgement can not be set aside, the only way to have the order vacated is to show you did not recieve summons which he did recieve, what he can do is within 15 days of the decision appeal the matter to the Circuit Court.

ResearchWill

BanzaiBk wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated. He's going to go to the Garda tomorrow and and have a chat with her about it.
Tbh we were a bit surprised that he even got the summons in the first place but I believe all no NCT things must go to court now? He's not denying that he had no NCT but it's still a bit of a kick in the teeth. The Garda report put liability on the other party and their insurance accepted full liability. He's not the type to shake the boat and really just wants to sort it out and be done with it.

So tomorrow he'll go to the Gardai to set up a meeting with the Garda who instructed the summons. Should he push for it to be settled as he had the NCT booked? It'd be a joke if he has to miss his holidays imo over this. I'll report back afterwards. Thanks

He can agree with the Garda to have the matter struck out if she accepts all he says. Bring letter for NCT and proof of possible he always had NCT tax etc. if Garda agrees to strike out matter, have you brother arrange to have someone in court, it has happened that Garda forget to S/O or get an other Garda to do it and they forget and then conviction.

corktina

i think the maximum fine is €1500 and there are 5 penalty points . I don't think he has a good case as suggested, you may get some leeway from a Gard if you have the test booked, but I don't think a Judge is likely to be as helpful. Solicitor essential here.

BanzaiBk

Thanks for all the replies. I suppose what we really wanted to know was if it could be rearranged for a later date, which as suggested looks possible. Would this have a negative impact on a judge? He will get onto the court clerk today after talking with the solicitor.

€1500! Knowing his luck he'll probably get the book thrown at him.

unkel

BanzaiBk wrote: »

his NCT was out of date by 3 weeks and he had a date booked for the following day. The car was written off in the collision.

He received a summons yesterday for having no NCT at the time of the collision.

A summons for just being out a few weeks with a test booked for the next day? Seems very harsh. Or was there something else you are not telling us about? Was his car dangerous, bald tyres?

galwaytt

....tbh, if I had a test date booked, I'd be fighting it tooth & nail: postponement would be the least of the issues.

Anan1

unkel wrote: »

A summons for just being out a few weeks with a test booked for the next day? Seems very harsh.

I think that's the attitude they're trying to change.

BanzaiBk

No there isn't any more to he story at all. At the date of the collision the NCT was expired by 2 weeks 6 days. The test was booked for the very next day. It was booked before the expiration of the previous one but in all honesty the NCT was out of date.

As my brother was hospitalised there was a whole Garda investigation and they themselves found the other party fully responsible. It was pretty straightforward really.

but43r

galwaytt wrote: »

....tbh, if I had a test date booked, I'd be fighting it tooth & nail: postponement would be the least of the issues.

He still didn't have a valid NCT at the time of the accident.
You are not supposed to drive a car without a valid NCT and it should be brought to the station on back of the trailer.

Booking the NCT doesn't prove that your car is roadworthy.

thenightrider

but43r wrote: »

Booking the NCT doesn't prove that your car is roadworthy.

Haveing an NCT also dosnt mean a car is road worthy it just means it was at the time of test.

kippy

What is the actual law on this though?
If the test was "BOOKED" before the expiration of the cert but the NCT could not offer a date before the expiration is the owner of the car at fault?
(I assume they are by the way, and that the owner of the car is completely responsible for booking the test and ensuring the car passes any test and subsequent retest before expiry of the cert) - The NCT can also offer to do the test in a less busy centre as well believe.

Vikings

The only time you can drive a car with no NCT is to take the car to the NCT test center.

Though in this case it does seem overly harsh I doubt it was the prosecuting gardas decision. If your brother was injured then a file would have been prepared and directions received from a higher rank/dpp to prosecute.

You could also go to court for your brother and explain the situation to the judge on the day and ask for a remand until your brother gets home.

smash

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

He has a good case here if he has documented proof of having booked the NCT before it's due date.

This is all you'll need, and proof the car was written off. Just show it to the guard that's dealing with it and it'll be stricken off.

2 stroke

I've been thinking of this overnight and it smells of someone pushing this (insurance company or other driver) trying to limit their liability. If your bro is just willing to accept the judges ruling, he does not have to be in court. But if he is looking for leniency/strike out, he should be in court.

2 stroke

Vikings wrote: »

The only time you can drive a car with no NCT is to take the car to the NCT test center.

Though in this case it does seem overly harsh I doubt it was the prosecuting gardas decision. If your brother was injured then a file would have been prepared and directions received from a higher rank/dpp to prosecute.

You could also go to court for your brother and explain the situation to the judge on the day and ask for a remand until your brother gets home.

I don't think you should ask for a remand.

whomitconcerns

"The only time you can drive a car with no NCT is to take the car to the NCT test center."

Pretty sure you cant do it then either...but in the absence of any other circumstances you would have to get a pretty harda$$ cop to want to do you for it.

but43r

but43r wrote: »

He still didn't have a valid NCT at the time of the accident.
You are not supposed to drive a car without a valid NCT and it should be brought to the station on back of the trailer.

Booking the NCT doesn't prove that your car is roadworthy.

Vikings wrote: »

The only time you can drive a car with no NCT is to take the car to the NCT test center.

Though in this case it does seem overly harsh I doubt it was the prosecuting gardas decision. If your brother was injured then a file would have been prepared and directions received from a higher rank/dpp to prosecute.

You could also go to court for your brother and explain the situation to the judge on the day and ask for a remand until your brother gets home.

whomitconcerns wrote: »

"The only time you can drive a car with no NCT is to take the car to the NCT test center."

Pretty sure you cant do it then either...but in the absence of any other circumstances you would have to get a pretty harda$$ cop to want to do you for it.

This is all bull imo, if a law exists which says you must have an nct and you book your nct before the old one expires its up to them to provide a slot to get it tested before the old one expires.

They cant expect people to be stranded without their car because they cannot provide the facility to have a car tested. If they want to enforce the rule with no leeway then they better employ more testers and get more test centres so you can have your car tested the within a day or two of booking it.

I have no idea why this has ended up in court, people with months old nct's have no problem going through checkpoints etc its a waste of court time having this up and I'd be very surprised if if wasn't struck out instantly once the op's brother goes about it correctly.

average_runner

but43r wrote: »

He still didn't have a valid NCT at the time of the accident.
You are not supposed to drive a car without a valid NCT and it should be brought to the station on back of the trailer.

Booking the NCT doesn't prove that your car is roadworthy.

]


You can drive a car for a month without NCT(same for car tax) as there is back log usually for appointments at certain times!!

Anan1

Skylar Clean Rib wrote: »

This is all bull imo, if a law exists which says you must have an nct and you book your nct before the old one expires its up to them to provide a slot to get it tested before the old one expires.

They cant expect people to be stranded without their car because they cannot provide the facility to have a car tested. If they want to enforce the rule with no leeway then they better employ more testers and get more test centres so you can have your car tested the within a day or two of booking it.

It's been possible to get a car NCTed within 24 hours for a long time now.

smash

Anan1 wrote: »

It's been possible to get a car NCTed within 24 hours for a long time now.

Booked my car last nov, 6 weeks waiting list.

Look op, bring the proof of test date and proof the car has been written off and it'll be thrown out. I know because I was in the same situation a few years ago.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

It's been possible to get a car NCTed within 24 hours for a long time now.

If you ring around different centers, look for cancellations etc. But not everyone is as well up on things like this and they just ring up and book so its not fair to them getting summonsed for having no NCT if they booked their NCT while the old one was valid and were given a date weeks away.

In any case, why should we have to go to the effort of ringing up for cancellations or cost ourselves more money on fuel to drive to other centres? If they want it to be law they should make it as simple and inexpensive as possible to have your car tested.

average_runner

Anan1 wrote: »

It's been possible to get a car NCTed within 24 hours for a long time now.

Best of luck with that, we couldnt get one within 6 weeks last Jan, told us was grand to drive the car just keep appointment doc in the car.

kirving

If it was actually about safety, the test would be free.

kippy

Anan1 wrote: »

It's been possible to get a car NCTed within 24 hours for a long time now.

I tried Galway ( about 5 minutes away), Ballinasloe, Westport and clifden before and all 4 were minimum 4 weeks (at the time) waiting list for a first test.
It might be possible but it's down to blind luck more than anything else.

Anan1

smash wrote: »

Booked my car last nov, 6 weeks waiting list.

average_runner wrote: »

Best of luck with that, we couldnt get one within 6 weeks last Jan

You take whatever date they give you and then go online for cancellations - you'll get a test at your local centre within 24 hours. Also, the test can be done up to 3 months early (6 months for a first test).

Skylar Clean Rib wrote: »

If you ring around different centers, look for cancellations etc. But not everyone is as well up on things like this and they just ring up and book so its not fair to them getting summonsed for having no NCT if they booked their NCT while the old one was valid and were given a date weeks away.

In any case, why should we have to go to the effort of ringing up for cancellations or cost ourselves more money on fuel to drive to other centres? If they want it to be law they should make it as simple and inexpensive as possible to have your car tested.

It's true that they don't publicize what I said above, and they should. Still, the NCT is simple and inexpensive, and it's the responsibility of the car owner to have it done on time.

2 stroke

Anan1 wrote: »

It's been possible to get a car NCTed within 24 hours for a long time now.

Almost impossible in my experience, I spent most of a day recently watching for a cancelation within a 60 mile radius. If I had been working I wouldn't have been able to spend that much time on a computer and I was only trying to book a retest.

Anan1

kippy wrote: »

I tried Galway ( about 5 minutes away), Ballinasloe, Westport and clifden before and all 4 were minimum 4 weeks (at the time) waiting list for a first test.
It might be possible but it's down to blind luck more than anything else.

It's not possible, it's a definite. Take any booking, then go online and get a cancellation.

Kevin Irving wrote: »

If it was actually about safety, the test would be free.

There's no such thing as free. Who do you want to pay for your test?

average_runner

Anan1 wrote: »

You take whatever date they give you and then go online for cancellations - you'll get a test at your local centre within 24 hours. Also, the test can be done up to 3 months early (6 months for a first test).It's true that they don't publicize what I said above, and they should. Still, the NCT is simple and inexpensive, and it's the responsibility of the car owner to have it done on time.

Sorry but i went the cancelation route as was heading away on hols and there was none in our local centre. Rang up every day just in case also and tried online.

So maybe you got lucky.

kippy

Anan1 wrote: »

It's not possible, it's a definite. Take any booking, then go online and get a cancellation.There's no such thing as free. Who do you want to pay for your test?

So you are basically saying that if everyone who had an NCT booked int he next three weeks at any centre, went online, and asked for a next cancellation, they would have a booking withing 24 hours?

Anan1

2 stroke wrote: »

Almost impossible in my experience, I spent most of a day recently watching for a cancelation within a 60 mile radius. If I had been working I wouldn't have been able to spend that much time on a computer and I was only trying to book a retest.

average_runner wrote: »

Sorry but i went the cancelation route as was heading away on hols and there was none in our local centre. Rang up every day just in case also and tried online.

So maybe you got lucky.

I've done four in the past year alone, all at a station and a date of my choosing. Am I really that lucky?

Honestly lads, I know it's fashionable to whinge and moan about the NCT but in my experience it's simple, good value, and necessary.

2 stroke

Skylar Clean Rib wrote: »

If you ring around different centers, look for cancellations etc.

BS. You cannot ring around the different centers as the numbers are not available to the public.

smash

Anan1 wrote: »

You take whatever date they give you and then go online for cancellations - you'll get a test at your local centre within 24 hours.

When I said I needed it earlier, the woman on the phone said to call back the following week to try get a cancellation. I did and she didn't have one so I left it for the date they had given me. And only with the allocated centre!

As a matter of interest are you in the motor trade?

Anan1

kippy wrote: »

So you are basically saying that if everyone who had an NCT booked int he next three weeks at any centre, went online, and asked for a next cancellation, they would have a booking withing 24 hours?

Eh, no. Read my post. I'm saying that I never have any trouble getting a car booked in on a date of my choosing. One has to assume that some people book the test in good time, and are happy to wait. My current car was tested in January, although it wasn't due until June. I did the test the day after I booked it because I happened to be free, but a wait wouldn't have bothered me.

Anan1

smash wrote: »

When I said I needed it earlier, the woman on the phone said to call back the following week to try get a cancellation. I did and she didn't have one so I left it for the date they had given me. And only with the allocated centre!

You need to do it online, although I have heard that ringing just after 8am can work too.

smash wrote: »

As a matter of interest are you in the motor trade?

No, I was but that was a good few years back.

2 stroke

If you have the time to sit in front of a computer and continously resubmit your details, it is possible to pick up a cancelation but you have to be quick, they are picked up almost as soon as they are put up. I couldn't do that on a working day.

Anan1

2 stroke wrote: »

If you have the time to sit in front of a computer and continously resubmit your details, it is possible to pick up a cancelation but you have to be quick, they are picked up almost as soon as they are put up. I couldn't do that on a working day.

You don't have to, if you book early.

kippy

Anan1 wrote: »

Eh, no. Read my post. I'm saying that I never have any trouble getting a car booked in on a date of my choosing. One has to assume that some people book the test in good time, and are happy to wait. My current car was tested in January, although it wasn't due until June. I did the test the day after I booked it because I happened to be free, but a wait wouldn't have bothered me.

The point I am making is the NCT cannot guarantee that you will be able to get your test done within 24 hours of you requesting it, whatever happened in your case.

average_runner

I would think trying to book an appointment 4 weeks in advance is early!!!

Anyhow he wasnt breaking a law driving without NCT cert if test is booked / or within a month after expiry. Simple as.

kippy

Anan1 wrote: »

You don't have to, if you book early.

Fair enough Anan1, that is the point I was making earlier - it is up to the owner of the car to ensure their test and subsequent retest has taken place before the cert runs out - this is completely understandable.

smash

kippy wrote: »

it is up to the owner of the car to ensure their test and subsequent retest has taken place before the cert runs out

Not the case. Most people get a letter 2/3 weeks before expiry and can not get a test before their cert expires.

kippy

smash wrote: »

Not the case. Most people get a letter 2/3 weeks before expiry and can not get a test before their cert expires.

No one gets letters anymore - as I almost found out to my cost a couple of years ago.
You can also get the test up to six months before the test expires I think (I have done if with at least 2 months to go and anan1 has said he has done it with 6 months)