Question on Rule 25-2: Embedded Ball

SnowDrifts

So the rule in question is:

25-2. Embedded Ball
A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely-mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green. “Closely-mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

My query is centered around the phrase "as near as possible to the spot where it lay". Playing in a competition today and a ball plugged on a slopped approach to a green. So the ball is dropped and rolls down to about a club length and a half twice in succession after which it was placed.

But the rule states nothing about 1 club length. So do we revert then to Rule 20-2 C (vi):?

c. When to Re-Drop
(vi) rolls and comes to rest more than two club-lengths from where it first struck a part of the course;

Can anyone clarify?

staker

So long as his stance or swing isn't impeded after dropping I can't see why it was placed if it didn't roll more than 2 club lengths..

Corkey123

On the topic of a plugged ball - apologies if it appears I'm hi-jacking this thread

After playing an approach to the green the ball plug in the turf immediately off the green - no more than a yard of the putting surface and was unplayable. The instruction given by the pro shop was "Lifting and cleaning applied on the fairway only". Was I entitled to a drop in this instance? The ball had plugged to the point of only 1/3 of the ball was visible

SnowDrifts

staker wrote: »

So long as his stance or swing isn't impeded after dropping I can't see why it was placed if it didn't roll more than 2 club lengths..

Yeah- that is what i thought but they said because it rolled outside 1 club length.

SnowDrifts

MartinCorcoran wrote: »

On the topic of a plugged ball - apologies if it appears I'm hi-jacking this thread

After playing an approach to the green the ball plug in the turf immediately off the green - no more than a yard of the putting surface and was unplayable. The instruction given by the pro shop was "Lifting and cleaning applied on the fairway only". Was I entitled to a drop in this instance? The ball had plugged to the point of only 1/3 of the ball was visible

Its all closely mown areas to fairway height or less. Generally the surrounds of greens are fairway height so you should have got a free drop.

fullstop

Isn't there a local rule which can be applied whereby if the ball plugs in the rough you can take relief?

dvemail

fullstop wrote: »

Isn't there a local rule which can be applied whereby if the ball plugs in the rough you can take relief?

Depends on the course i suppose. My own doesn't have this so if i were to hit a drive only a yard into the rough and it plugs, i have to play as is or take a penalty drop.
Really is quite harsh.

SnowDrifts

There is a local rule but obviously being local, only some courses have it. Should really be everywhere. It's not very fair when you hit a good drive just off the fairway into semi and you go to find the ball plugged through no fault of your own.

fullstop

dvemail wrote: »

Depends on the course i suppose. My own doesn't have this so if i were to hit a drive only a yard into the rough and it plugs, i have to play as is or take a penalty drop.
Really is quite harsh.

I know that, yeah. I remember there was talk last year or the year before of this being implemented throughout the country by the GUI. Might have just made that up in my head though

Corkey123

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Its all closely mown areas to fairway height or less. Generally the surrounds of greens are fairway height so you should have got a free drop.

It wasn't closely cut, there was a couple of inches of grass so I suppose technically it was in the rough although close to the green. Ah well have to more accurate next time.

Thanks for the response SnowDrifts

SnowDrifts

Yeah no worries - it's definitely not fair when you have to hack a ball out or take a penalty after a shot plugs in semi. Roll on some dry, warm weather supposedly coming this week!

GreeBo

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Yeah- that is what i thought but they said because it rolled outside 1 club length.

Did it roll closer to the hole? If so he was correct .

SnowDrifts

No, away from the hole. The general consensus was that it must not roll outside 1 club length. I thought it might be 2 but wasn't sure so didn't mention it.

GreeBo

SnowDrifts wrote: »

No, away from the hole. The general consensus was that it must not roll outside 1 club length. I thought it might be 2 but wasn't sure so didn't mention it.

As long as it first touches the ground within the 1 (or 2 depending) club lengths, rolls no closer to the hole, doesnt roll back into the thing you are taking relief from and doesnt roll more than 2 clublengths you are good.

AldilaMan

GreeBo wrote: »

As long as it first touches the ground within the 1 (or 2 depending) club lengths, rolls no closer to the hole, doesnt roll back into the thing you are taking relief from and doesnt roll more than 2 clublengths you are good.

Apoligies for the hijack but what happens if you take a drop from a lateral hazard and the ball drops back towards the hazard but not in the margin leaving you no stance. Is that just tough or can you redrop?

spacecoyote

Learned my lesson on this at the weekend. Playing a par 3 and hit a fairly high 8 iron approach which came down through the green and plugged straight in. Didn't want to risk a penalty so I played it as it lied and made a meal of the hole as got a flyer with my chip, had no stroke and ended up scratching.

Then rather stupidly took the card out and looked at the local rules which stated there was free relief for a ball in its own plug mark.

Was a pity too, was a society outing and I finished 3rd, 2 points off the winner. Would have been a relatively simple chip if I'd taken relief. Even if I'd picked up a single point I'd have been second as had a better back 9 than the 2nd place player.

Moral of the story...check the local rules before you start playing!!!!

charlieIRL

spacecoyote wrote: »

Moral of the story...check the local rules before you start playing!!!!

and all the new rules. Another society i play with - one of the lads penailsed himself because his ball moved just as he grounded his club to putt costing him the win.

Technically sould he have been DQ for sigining an incorrect card? I know its only a society outing but I always feel its best play by the rules all them time.

Jasonw

charlieIRL wrote: »

Technically sould he have been DQ for sigining an incorrect card? .

No. Only DQ for signing for a score better than what you had.

GreeBo

AldilaMan wrote: »

Apoligies for the hijack but what happens if you take a drop from a lateral hazard and the ball drops back towards the hazard but not in the margin leaving you no stance. Is that just tough or can you redrop?

Thats tough I'm afraid.