Using Loops

ArtyZiffsAfro

Hi ,

What are peoples thoughts on using other peoples loops in music production , like producer packs and that sort of thing.
Do the purests out there look down on this since its basically not your own work ?

mordeith

I think a lot pf producers utilize loops by sampling a particular hit or section and then adding their own twist to it. I know I hardly ever use a loop as it comes. But then again I hardly ever use loops anyway. They rarely seem to fit in properly with the track I'm working on.

ICN

It depends what you wanna do.

They're great for a bit of inspiration sometimes.. a bit of study to recreate / put your own slant on something. Its cool sometimes to whack a couple of loops into ableton & loop them up a bit.. stretching them out - or drawing the volume into the clip envelopes to "gate" the bits of the loop that you want to play. You can do that to a series of them & then group them to make them sound as one.

It depends though. Sometimes I get a wicked rhythm using loops. They do things that I'd never think about programming & its class (to my ears) hearing bits of reverb etc.. being cut off sharply in them. However any time I do that, I usually end up getting frustrated & recreating the whole thing with one shots anyway haha.

Splinters

I think most people would be on the same (or similar page) when it comes to them. If they're being used "as is" it could be taken as cheating. I also have a personal rule that I wont use them if I dont understand whats being done in the loop or wouldnt be able to recreate it myself. As mentioned sometimes they can be really inspiring to hear something automated in a way you wouldnt have thought of, or maybe a beat constructed slightly different then you would have. But if it was a sound that I honestly wouldnt be able to create myself Id sooner just learn how to create the sound. Ive met a couple of "producers" who blatantly use loops for things like big dubstep basses, then when it came to asking them about how they constructed the sound they didnt have the first clue about any form of synthesis or programming a synth/vst. Id still say if you chop them up, gate them, slice out sections or any other inventive or thoughful way then its grand. That'd be my take on it anyway.

flyswatter

Used to use them when I was starting out on just a few tracks just to learn how to produce more than anything else.

I won't use melodic musical loops anymore in anything I do cos I don't like the idea that someone out there is using the exact loop in their track. You know the ones by Prime Loops and similar companies, also ones that come free with magazines. They are basically produced by some anonymous musician somewhere and licenced to be sold royalty free for anyone to use.

Drum loops are fair game though. Don't see any issue there.

ArtyZiffsAfro

Cheers for the feedback , was always curious about what people thought about this...

Dontron

I used to have rules about what is acceptable and what isnt. After a long time i came to conclusion that everthing is fair game and that the only thing that matters is how good your tune is, that is the only criteria for deciding if you should use something.

If you do not sample other peoples music then you are missing out on a treasure trove of quality matterial. Electronic music can be very deceptive about what is going on. Things that sound synthesized/created from scratch by the producer often is sampled from the same or similar genres and if you make a rule to never sample from your own genre then you will never learn this lesson. And you will never figure out a how some producers are getting that "sound"

As an excercise pick your favourite artist find as many clean samples as you can and chuck em in a sampler then mess with them, pitch something up or down has a huge effect on the sound plus you got all the other things you can do.

Years ago i would never have done this as it felt like stealing, but from listening to other producers this is nearly standard practice. Its great source material to start messing with.

TL;DR dont make up arbitrary rules about whats acceptable to sample as you will miss out on class samples

SteveDon

Loops should be out of bounds for anyone that is serious about making music.

Sampling sounds and stuff is cool, that is unless u sample a musical phrase or whole drum loop, that's just plain thievery.

This goes on far more than you would think... even emmanuel top completely ripped off a Jonas Kopp track recently.

If you wanna sample someone elses music, just a small hit is fine. But there is far too many producers out there that completely rely on this kinda stuff. And if you are always doing it your never going to sound original.

Dontron

SteveDon wrote: »

Loops should be out of bounds for anyone that is serious about making music.

You sure about that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rjyVF6a4xo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vozNQX6Ye1A

SteveDon

Dontron wrote: »

You sure about that?

Yep, wouldnt have said it otherwise

Hayte

SteveDon wrote: »

Loops should be out of bounds for anyone that is serious about making music.

Sampling sounds and stuff is cool, that is unless u sample a musical phrase or whole drum loop, that's just plain thievery.

This goes on far more than you would think... even emmanuel top completely ripped off a Jonas Kopp track recently.

If you wanna sample someone elses music, just a small hit is fine. But there is far too many producers out there that completely rely on this kinda stuff. And if you are always doing it your never going to sound original.

I used to give a s**t about stuff like that but now it just doesn't matter to me. When it comes to production in general, most people who listen to my stuff don't understand or care about how it is made. They are only concerned about whether it gives them a good feeling or not. Even the people who go further and take an interest in how it is made will not be able to figure out the illusion on their own, because its so idiosyncratic. And to be honest, they shouldn't spend an inordinate amount of time trying to break down every single element to its most basic components because that will spoil the illusion and take away the mystery.

So all that time I spend synthesizing kick drums from scratch doesn't mean anything to most listeners. They don't know or care how many 909s and 808s BDs (real or clones) are layered and what the settings are. They certainly don't care if I one up myself and build all my drums entirely from scratch using FM generators, noise generators, filter banks and distortion.

This exercise is only useful to me personally, so I can understand how a song is built.

As long as you do actually practice sound design in some fashion then you should be gold. The only problems with sampling wholesale are:

1) the potential copyright infringement claims down the road if your song is destined for commercial success.

2) if you never learn sound design you are incapable of making electronic music unless all your instrument sounds are ready made. So if you only have vengeance samples you will find it very difficult or impossible to not sound like banging hardstyle because thats what vengeance samples are all about.

If all of your percussion is sampled from funk breaks then you can never really get away from that sound unless you do something different. But if it sounds good and its fit for purpose (and any copyright infringement claims are settled in advance), why shouldn't you use it?

People who don't know what vengeance is and who don't listen to hard dance will obviously not understand why your stuff sounds oh so very familiar but this is one of the reasons for it right here. For alot of people, a straight amen break sounds great. Its not that interesting to me because I know where it comes from and whats been done to it in order to differentiate it from the tens of thousands of other breaks tracks that use an amen break somewhere, but my opinion doesn't really mean squat either way.

If it sounds good and its not hurting anyone, you should do it.

krd

Hayte wrote: »

People who don't know what vengeance is and who don't listen to hard dance will obviously not understand why your stuff sounds oh so very familiar but this is one of the reasons for it right here.

When it comes to genres, people want comforting familiarity. They want the generic sounds and style. If it sounds too original they think there's something wrong with it.

Construction kits are a good way to build tracks that sound generic. And there's different levels to it. Single hits are single hits. There have been construction kits where you put the whole thing together like lego.

Sound design is a pain in de hole. And no one can listen to the same kick drum for more than 30 minutes without beginning to go insane. An hour in you are insane. Also if you don't really know what you're doing, and can't make your sounds balance.

Executive Steve

SteveDon wrote: »

Loops should be out of bounds for anyone that is serious about making music.

Sampling sounds and stuff is cool, that is unless u sample a musical phrase or whole drum loop, that's just plain thievery.

This goes on far more than you would think... even emmanuel top completely ripped off a Jonas Kopp track recently.

If you wanna sample someone elses music, just a small hit is fine. But there is far too many producers out there that completely rely on this kinda stuff. And if you are always doing it your never going to sound original.

Absolute rubbish tbh. Yeah using pre-made loops straight from a torrented sample pack or whatever is one of the most boring things in the world and won't make you any better at production in the long run, but I'd say a good 80 - 90% of my favourite records are pretty much 95% samples

Sampling within the genre you're working in should be a complete no no, but apart from that it's fair game IMO.

crowdcontrol

Agreed Executive Steve, sampling is an art, like anything, you can do it well, creatively etc or you can rub your arse to it.

I messed about with loops when I started years back but I found them restrictive as I started to figure out what I was doing. Also you have the 1000's of demos sent to labels every year all using the same sample CD'S. If you use a full loop or say a synth loop, it stands out and you wont.

I always say use everything at your disposal but I've found taking snippets is grand but full loops not really. Especially with percussion where you have different sounds in a loop. Nightmare for the mix process. The genre your in make a difference also, chill, hip hop etc, some nice snippets into your MPC or whatever, beautiful, but say a lead trance/house loop from a Vengeance CD, that will remain a demo!

DamagedTrax

whatever works, works.

if thats a loop then so be it. one of the greatest techno remixes of all time was straight out of a loop pack (dave clarke's remix of dj rush's 'get on up').

if it bothers you to use loops dont use them, if it doesnt then use them. the dancefloor doesnt give a f**k.

jtsuited

SteveDon wrote: »

Loops should be out of bounds for anyone that is serious about making music.

Sampling sounds and stuff is cool, that is unless u sample a musical phrase or whole drum loop, that's just plain thievery.

This goes on far more than you would think... even emmanuel top completely ripped off a Jonas Kopp track recently.

If you wanna sample someone elses music, just a small hit is fine. But there is far too many producers out there that completely rely on this kinda stuff. And if you are always doing it your never going to sound original.

I disagree in theory, but see what you are saying. If you're making techno or tech house, and are using vengeance (or whoever is big these days in that world) loops, you're a spa.

But.....certain types of house music (moodymann/theo parrish/motor city drum ensemble) are sample based. That's when you get into the artform. And strictly speaking, they're 'using loops'.

Likewise in certain forms of bass music (dnb, garage, dubstep and all the hybrids). You can't beat a bit of a classic jungle loop for giving a bit of flavour.

I don't really use loops, but that's because admittedly i'm not very good at sampling.

On a related point, the amount of retards who think lobbing a load of loops into ableton and bouncing down the result = producing music, is astounding.

shed head

jtsuited wrote: »

I disagree in theory, but see what you are saying. If you're making techno or tech house, and are using vengeance (or whoever is big these days in that world) loops, you're a spa.

But.....certain types of house music (moodymann/theo parrish/motor city drum ensemble) are sample based. That's when you get into the artform. And strictly speaking, they're 'using loops'.

Likewise in certain forms of bass music (dnb, garage, dubstep and all the hybrids). You can't beat a bit of a classic jungle loop for giving a bit of flavour.

I don't really use loops, but that's because admittedly i'm not very good at sampling.

On a related point, the amount of retards who think lobbing a load of loops into ableton and bouncing down the result = producing music, is astounding.

i miss jtsuited tunes aka mr handsome even though i only approve of analogue. good production is always welcome! Analord