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Weston Airport

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Why do you consider it an “avoidable” accident?

    Simply letting a student go too low into a small field surrounded by high trees before the pull out from simulated forced landing was *definitely* avoidable. That was one of the fields where you make a suitable approach to the point (abt 200 feet)where you know in real life a walk-away full-stop landing could have been achieved. When Captain Kennedy himself was instructing he knew the exact limits of all the aircraft and scenarios and sometimes switched off the engine to demonstrate the effect of a stopped propellor glide performance. He even made me touch the wheels on a very suitable field I had chosen after this, and restarted instantly so as I could pull out very safely. He knew he could have taken off easily out of this field if the engine had hesitated to restart. After this successful engine-out glide into a field he immediately let me go solo. Most other instructors would never let you go beyond their own capabilities of judgement, but sadly a particular instructor in this tragic case allowed the student to descend way too low into that field. A full-stop landing would likely have saved both lives, saved injury and aircraft (they stopped virtually instantly and in high grass as I once found out!), although retrieving the plane from that field would have been a logistical nightmare, hence I reckon the impetus to try and climb out over the trees. They are not the best climbers, especially if full flap hasn't been partially retracted in time. No point in getting anywhere near dying in the process of learning to how cope with an engine failure, the purpose being to enable you to preserve your life as best you can in the event of it ever really happening in your hobby.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭duskyjoe


    I feel very very uneasy reading the above dissecting an accident that happened many years ago.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    duskyjoe wrote: »
    I feel very very uneasy reading the above dissecting an accident that happened many years ago.

    Lovely instructor, highly respected young person, everyone was very saddened at the time. It was a lovely flying school which catered for everyone. I have always believed in learning from accident reports, lessons in each one of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭Teebor15


    Weston instrument procedures permanently withdrawn due to the unserviceability of the DVOR.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭Bsal


    The current notam says the VOR is U/S until the 27th of January 2021.

    DVOR/DME WST/WESTON 114.7 MHZ CH94X U/S. 24 OCT 10:00 2020 UNTIL 27 JAN 23:59
    2021. CREATED: 23 OCT 09:59 2020


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  • Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭Teebor15


    EIWT FLIGHT PROCEDURES NOT AVAILABLE DUE TO THE UNSERVICEABILITY
    OF
    THE WESTON DVOR/DME.
    CHARTS AFFECTED:
    EIWT AD 2.24.3 VOR D CAT A,B
    EIWT AD 2.24.4 VOR B CAT A,B
    EIWT AD 2.24.5 VOR C CAT A,B
    FROM: 23 OCT 2020 11:13 TO: PERM


  • Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭Lockheed


    NFC back in weston from next Wednesday


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭duskyjoe


    Lovely instructor, highly respected young person, everyone was very saddened at the time. It was a lovely flying school which catered for everyone. I have always believed in learning from accident reports, lessons in each one of them.

    Well that’s me put in my box.

    If your so inclined to publicly dissect this dreadful tragedy maybe it would be prudent to attach the accident report for clarity.

    I too had the pleasure of flying with the deceased instructor on numerous occasions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    duskyjoe wrote: »
    Well that’s me put in my box.

    If your so inclined to publicly dissect this dreadful tragedy maybe it would be prudent to attach the accident report for clarity.

    I too had the pleasure of flying with the deceased instructor on numerous occasions.

    I haven't seen any names mentioned in the comments but it reminds me of another instructor from 2006. Is that the same person?


  • Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭N7777G


    Weston is rumoured to be re-opening on Monday, 9th November.


    Here's hoping it's true!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭mr.anonymous


    N7777G wrote: »
    Weston is rumoured to be re-opening on Monday, 9th November.


    Here's hoping it's true!

    NOTAMs only show closed til 8th Nov so hopefully

    EINN-A2043/20
    Q) EISN/QFALC/IV/NBO/ A/000/999/5321N00629W005
    A) EIWT WESTON
    B) 2020 OCT 31 18:00 C) 2020 NOV 08 18:00
    E) AERODROME CLOSED


  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭logie101


    So is it back open today? Has there been any traffic into the place?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,742 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There is a drive-through Santa event being advertised for Christmas here now, I presume in the carpark or something, not affecting ops (if they resume) but you'd never know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,854 ✭✭✭zuutroy


    Nothing sent to any past based aircraft to my knowledge (in keeping with the past 6 months) begging them to return. I'd guess they're only opening due to obligation to NFC and won't be opening properly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    zuutroy wrote: »
    Nothing sent to any past based aircraft to my knowledge (in keeping with the past 6 months) begging them to return. I'd guess they're only opening due to obligation to NFC and won't be opening properly.

    Could it be opened up without a controller, just like the good ole days?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,854 ✭✭✭zuutroy


    For sure if they could've gotten away with it they would have, I'd say. It was one of the many rumours doing the rounds over the summer, but I guess the IAA weren't having it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭2011abc


    More light aircraft around lately ,reopen?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    2011abc wrote: »
    More light aircraft around lately ,reopen?

    Yes it's been open for about a week.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I haven't seen any names mentioned in the comments but it reminds me of another instructor from 2006. Is that the same person?

    This took place decades ago, different era. I had to give up flying in 1984 due to failing eye test. I haven't been able to find the report. No internet back then, not sure if AAIU have uploaded old reports, must actually do a search. They were printed hard copy and used to get them in the libraries where I worked.

    The Rallye Morane aircraft used at the school were incredibly forgiving, and manoeuvrable. Back in the day there were times you got to fly when not so experienced in very tricky winds, and these aircraft had amazing capability, when I look back on it. Pretty lame at climbing, nonetheless they were reluctant to stall. But they were what I would describe as "wandering" by inclination, so you always had to keep on top of them to keep going in the intended direction. Quite different to Cessnas I subsequently got flying.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    The accident referred to happened in 1987, so it's not going to be the same instructor. I did a bit of flying at Weston around that time, having done a basic PPL in the UK, also mainly on Rallye's, and I had mixed feelings about them, made stronger by a fatal accident in the UK where a relatively low time pilot took some mates up and managed to tear the wings off by doing things 4 up that were outside of the certification.

    Weston for me came as a real eye opener, they were flying the Rallyes on Mogas at that stage, which didn't do anything for the performance, which was never stellar, and I very rapidly discovered the "Weston special", the 300 Ft circuit that meant lots of landings, but very little else in the skill development area. I also wasn't greatly impressed with the pre flight checks, throwing a few gallons of Mogas in each side and then basically going flying was somewhat cavalier, and from what I heard at the time of the accident, the overshoot was compromised when the engine didn't immediately respond to the throttle being opened for the go around, and from my own experience, the go around didn't happen until the wheels were brushing the grass.

    I was lucky, not long after that, I decided that commercial flying appealed, and the easiest way back then for me was to buy a cheap twin (PA39) and build the hours I needed as part of my regular work travel around Europe, so I ended up effectively repeating the PPL syllabus in a high performance twin with a very experienced instructor, and then doing all the other ratings to allow me to operate safely, and I built a lot of single pilot hours in all conditions around Western Europe as a result.

    That was when I fully realised that the basic PPL I'd done was not particularly good, but the repeat made all the difference, once checked out fully on the twin, I was well set. Never did get to fly professionally and earn money from it, but that's another story.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The accident referred to happened in 1987, so it's not going to be the same instructor. I did a bit of flying at Weston around that time, having done a basic PPL in the UK, also mainly on Rallye's, and I had mixed feelings about them, made stronger by a fatal accident in the UK where a relatively low time pilot took some mates up and managed to tear the wings off by doing things 4 up that were outside of the certification.

    Weston for me came as a real eye opener, they were flying the Rallyes on Mogas at that stage, which didn't do anything for the performance, which was never stellar, and I very rapidly discovered the "Weston special", the 300 Ft circuit that meant lots of landings, but very little else in the skill development area. I also wasn't greatly impressed with the pre flight checks, throwing a few gallons of Mogas in each side and then basically going flying was somewhat cavalier, and from what I heard at the time of the accident, the overshoot was compromised when the engine didn't immediately respond to the throttle being opened for the go around, and from my own experience, the go around didn't happen until the wheels were brushing the grass.

    I was lucky, not long after that, I decided that commercial flying appealed, and the easiest way back then for me was to buy a cheap twin (PA39) and build the hours I needed as part of my regular work travel around Europe, so I ended up effectively repeating the PPL syllabus in a high performance twin with a very experienced instructor, and then doing all the other ratings to allow me to operate safely, and I built a lot of single pilot hours in all conditions around Western Europe as a result.

    That was when I fully realised that the basic PPL I'd done was not particularly good, but the repeat made all the difference, once checked out fully on the twin, I was well set. Never did get to fly professionally and earn money from it, but that's another story.

    Yes the 300ft circuit was a favourite there, have an old super8 cine film of myself doing them in BBJ up on YouTube. Pre-flight checks were nil, I used to add in my own "check floor for pebbles" after one jammed the fuel-cock in the mid closed position for 10 seconds as I was changing tanks. Sometimes a little note would be stuck on the panel "do not idle engine", which had been set very lean. I was coming in behind my friend and I saw her aircraft stop dead immediately after landing, so I had to go around-she had forgotten about the note.

    Everyone's favourite as far as performance and handling went was BBJ, the yellow two seat one. However I hated the manual flaps. During a touch and go, I would inevitably manage to pull in all flap, she's bump down again briefly, but then climb out nicely. Inevitably during a touch and go, if you pushed in the throttle too quickly there'd be a brief silence from the engine, an occasional backfire, with the leanness. Just before my first solo the chief instructor switched off the engine, and only after I briefly touched down on my chosen field (the big Dept of Agriculture one) did he switch it in again, saying "go, go, go!" During the climb out he appeared to slump over in his seat, and I said to myself "he'll have to stay that way until I've landed". After touchdown, he came to life again, climbed out, and told me to "three circuits please, whilst I have pudding".

    Was very sad to see BBJ later rotting on the field. Even if you couldn't hack the flaps, she was perfectly well behaved and had a nice climb when I was solo and lighter back then!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    Yes,the non-existent preflight,no headsets, getting a thump from certain instructors if you made a mistake and the 300 foot circuit. Ten landings in one hour was common. Which was why I decided to get my PPL in the USA and it was a revelation, especially about how GA could function, be cheap, safe and available to all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 643 ✭✭✭duskyjoe


    I loved EI-BBJ. Did my Solo and first Aeros in her “Your out of the nest now” roared the Capt as he sent me solo. . Great days , seat of the pants stuff which stood me well irrespective of the negative comments. Those Rallyes were superb training aircraft , tough as old boots with auto leading edges . Windy weather circuits the leading edges would bang in and out - very forgiving machine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    I thoroughly enjoyed flying Rallyes and have great respect for them. At least 60 Rallyes were on the Irish register and for many people, it was all there was. But, the training standards and procedures there were abysmal. No nostalgia for that!


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    If it could be considered a fault, the Rallye was too easy to fly, trimmed out correctly, you could close the throttle, wait for the slats to deploy, and then put the flaps down, and it would usually waffle it's way all the way down on to the ground without stalling, a nice safety feature in some respects, but it made for pilots that didn't really get to understand the handling the aircraft, and we had a lot of problems at a club in the UK when they changed from Rallyes on to a different airframe (Grumman AA5A Cheetah) that was a lot less forgiving, and the result was a lot of badly bent nose gear as a result of an over firm nose first arrival. And yes, the standards were not great, but who was watching, or knew different at that time.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    yes, you could get away with a lot in a Rallye and even the transition to a Cessna 150, as I did, made you unlearn some Rallye habits. I flew the 172 after the 150 and even that made you pay attention and I even have a few hours in a Grumman in the logbook and it was quite different to the 172......some of the custom and practise in Weston was Stone Age,even by mid-80s standards. I had my eyes opened when I flew in the US and the UK, especially when it came to intructorial behaviour. still, I did enjoy my time in Weston and met some great people there.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    yes, you could get away with a lot in a Rallye and even the transition to a Cessna 150, as I did, made you unlearn some Rallye habits. I flew the 172 after the 150 and even that made you pay attention and I even have a few hours in a Grumman in the logbook and it was quite different to the 172......some of the custom and practise in Weston was Stone Age,even by mid-80s standards. I had my eyes opened when I flew in the US and the UK, especially when it came to intructorial behaviour. still, I did enjoy my time in Weston and met some great people there.

    The States could be equally challenging, I went over to California to do an American CPL/IR and multi, to untie my American licence from the UK PPL, and the first session on the twin was "interesting", I'd sent them a note of my times, and someone had clearly not looked at it too closely, as I went over with close on 200 Hrs ME time, on mainly PA39, a hot ship, and a number of hours on Seneca and Aztec, both of which were much more sedate.

    First flight with my new instructor, in a Seneca, and I took off and climbed out in the manner I was (well) used to, and we then went on into the circuit, and it became clear that the instructor was not happy and was twitching like mad. At the end of the session, it transpired that his total twin time was less than 20 hours, and not much of that was solo, so he was massively intimidated by the way I was handling the Seneca, which was second nature to me, but way outside his comfort zone, and it became clear that the pairing wasn't going to work.

    A long chat with the CFI ensued, and fair play to him, I spent the rest of the time there with a different instructor, who was also flying professionally for them on charter work, and we clicked very quickly, he recognised that I was also well comfortable with the twin, so there was no issues after the first lesson together.

    Loved flying in the States, we did some very long trips, Texas to California and back in a 182, nearly a week, California to Colorado and back in the Seneca, 4 days, Orlando to Key west in a Seneca, the sorts of trips that are almost impossible in Europe. Longest in Europe would have been Dublin Brussels on several occasions, the night flights were the most fun, as ATC was a lot quieter back then during the late evening, so the routings were much more helpful, and night flying in good weather is great fun, the views are amazing.

    Got to Frozen ATPL, but never got to use it with an aviation employer as such, Gulf war 1 killed things at just the wrong time for me, but it all came in very useful over the years, I got to do some amazing things in the simulation arena, and without the licences, and the relevant knowledge, they'd never have happened. Never knew from those early days in the Rallye where it would lead, definitely an interesting journey. Made some very good friends in Irish Aviation over the years, in both airlines and General aviation, so no regrets.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    I flew in America quite a bit and always enjoyed it; such an open and easy place to fly. You were treated as an adult from Day 1 and expected to know your business and even the smallest airfield always had access to a toilet, coffee and flight planning and usually had some interesting aircraft to look at. European aviation is too tied up in over regulation and costs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭California Dreamer



    Loved flying in the States, we did some very long trips, Texas to California and back in a 182, nearly a week, California to Colorado and back in the Seneca, 4 days, Orlando to Key west in a Seneca, the sorts of trips that are almost impossible in Europe. Longest in Europe would have been Dublin Brussels on several occasions, the night flights were the most fun, as ATC was a lot quieter back then during the late evening, so the routings were much more helpful, and night flying in good weather is great fun, the views are amazing.

    I have a couple of great entries in my logbook. Taking a 172 from Las Vegas out to the grand canyon and another one buzzing the runway at 100ft at KSC in Florida.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    The big difference for me was the way that the entire GA scene is accepted across the network. ATC had a completely different attitude towards small aircraft to the attitude that was common across Europe.

    Inbound to Addison, a GA field about 30 miles from Dallas Fort Worth, in a 182, IFR at 4000 Ft, I was fully expecting to be routed half way round Texas to avoid the traffic in and out of DFW, but to my surprise and pleasure, they routed us right over the top of the airfield, and did whatever was needed to keep the commercial guys out of trouble. Didn't see any of it due to being in cloud, but it was an interesting few minutes of high intensity radio traffic, DFW were active on 4 runways at the time.

    Landing into the Denver area GA field, Centennial, and realising that there were more light aircraft parked on the ramp than probably are on the entire Irish Register. Flying over places like Davis Monthan, and looking at row after row of retired military airframes, and then seeing similar lines of commercial aircraft at Mojave, and this was a long time ago.

    Being able to fly relatively low level VFR orbits over the Hoover Dam on the way to Denver from LA, on the way along the Grand Canyon, before flying through the Rockies at 12000 Ft, watching each other very carefully for signs of oxygen deprivation.

    Flying an ancient Piper single commanche at 9000 Ft in VFR, (it couldn't get any higher due to the age of the engine and the temperature) over the LA area on a gin clear night, and looking at just how many aircraft were in the air at the time.

    It was a different time, things were much more relaxed than they are now, and there were none of the security hassles that make anything to do with aircraft now a total pain. It would be so nice to be able to wind that clock back again.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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