purchased vehicle without warranty ?

venomousfrog

Hello.
I Bought a vehicle from a SIMI Registered dealer , i found out today that they are not SIMI registered .
I purchased the car on the 4th of april 2012 , i traded in my own car + 700eur to do the deal . i declined the warranty as the sales man told me the car was 100% and convinced me there was no issues with the car .... 20mins after driving the car the engine mgmt light came on and started flashing at me , i called the dealer and told me there was nothing he could as i didnt accept the warranty , i have since at my own expense paid 440eur to have it repaired , car was misfiring on one cylinder . its still misfirng even after the work has been done . I went back to the dealer yesterday 14/05/2012 to dispute the fact they mis sold me a defective vehicle i was told quite simply it wasnt there problem ..... can anyone tell me if i have any comeback , whats my next step - thanks

Jarren

You bought it from a dealer ?

What to do if something goes wrong
If you feel you have been misled about any aspect of the car or if something goes wrong after buying the car, you should:

Contact the seller immediately and ask what they intend to do about the problem. If the car is under warranty, check the terms and conditions to see what it says about the seller’s obligations. Your normal consumer rights may still apply.
If a member of the Society of Irish Motor Industry (SIMI) sells you a car, you may have to go through the SIMI complaints process. A dealer will usually ask you to sign a form at the point of sale agreeing to comply with this process. If you did not sign an agreement, you can take legal action by hiring a solicitor at your own cost. The investigation and complaints service of SIMI deals with complaints relating to:
the purchase of used vehicles from retail member companies and
the service or repair of vehicles by retail members companies except those subject to a manufacturers warranty claim. For more information, check out the website www.simi.ie.
If there is something wrong with the car and your claim does not exceed €2,000, you have the option of going through the Small Claims process. However, if you bought a car privately, you cannot go through the Small Claims process because you cannot take a case against another consumer. However, you can still consider legal action by consulting with a solicitor. The Small Claims process does not deal with cases relating to finance agreements, including hire purchase agreements, as you do not own the car until you make the last payment.
If you are in dispute with the garage you may want to get an independent mechanic to check the car out on your behalf and write a report on the fault that has occurred. If the report states that the fault should not be occurring in a car of its age and condition then you may be able to use this report to make a claim against the garage.

http://www.nca.ie/index.jsp?p=133&n=177&a=349

venomousfrog

Jarren wrote: »

You bought it from a dealer ?

Jarren , yes i bought it from a car dealer who had all the signs of a SIMI registered dealer and when I contacted SIMI today they told me they never heard of the company.

i have since sent an email and letter to the dealer following the procedure from the NCA . I have asked the dealer to reply within 5 working days , the total cost of the of the vehicle was 2200eur , but i am simply looking for a repair ..... i have also missed quite alot of work regarding this issue as the vehicle has taken almost 3 weeks to get repaired by my own mechanic , between getting the parts and labour.

uck51js9zml2yt

Have SIMI been able to give you any advise.

HAve you put in a complaint with the NCA.


The sale of goods act covers you. The product should be fit for the purpose for which it was bought.

eyescreamcone

Caveat Emptor

Twin-go

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Caveat Emptor

Only with a private sale with someone who in not in the trade.

Sounds like this guy has all the outward apperance of a dealer.

OP, small claims court maybe an option here if you are not satisfied with the response of the dealer.

venomousfrog

Naomi Shapely Bowling wrote: »

Have SIMI been able to give you any advise.

HAve you put in a complaint with the NCA.


The sale of goods act covers you. The product should be fit for the purpose for which it was bought.

Simi have advised me that will inspect the garage for using SIMI logo on their signs and paper work

NCA advised me to send a letter of complaint outlining the issue and to give them 5 days to respond. if no reply then to go to Dublin district smalls claims .

venomousfrog

Update 5pm today .

Spoke with the owner of the garage who told out straight he will not stand over the car , has basically told me i can chase him thru the small claims and i can sing for a repair ! nice bloke !

kippy

venomousfrog wrote: »

Update 5pm today .

Spoke with the owner of the garage who told out straight he will not stand over the car , has basically told me i can chase him thru the small claims and i can sing for a repair ! nice bloke !

You need to get some legal advice. The NCA are usually the first port of call, they will give you some excellent advice (in as much as they can) http://www.nca.ie/ (helpline number there)
They may direct you towards a solicitor (small claims MAY NOT be the resolution here as the money involved could be more than the limit for small claims)
Getting legal advise will at least arm you with something when going back to the dealer.
Once the dealer thinks you are serious they may change their tune......if not then you need to pursue through the courts, starting with a solicitors letter (again, this step may change their tune.)

I think (but am not sure) that anything leaving a trade has a 12 month warranty attached to it - not sure how verbally saying you dont want that warranty effects that, which is why you need some solid advice.

Jarren

Read everything

http://www.nca.ie/nca/small-claims

Good Luck OP

January

What type of a car was it?

venomousfrog

January wrote: »

What type of a car was it?

Honda Accord 2002

corktina

is it in writing that it is a Trade Sale with no warranty? If not I'd assume your normal consumer rights apply and you should see a Solicitor

venomousfrog

corktina wrote: »

is it in writing that it is a Trade Sale with no warranty? If not I'd assume your normal consumer rights apply and you should see a Solicitor

The Invoice says the following : customer was offered a warranty at 800eur , reclined warranty for trade price of 700eur.

Just to point out , i was aware i was getting no warranty on the basis that the very salesman assured me the car was 100% , in fact the salesman use to own this vehicle so he said and told me it was perfect working order. i wish now for the sake of 100eur i should of taken.

kippy

venomousfrog wrote: »

The Invoice says the following : customer was offered a warranty at 800eur , reclined warranty for trade price of 700eur.

Just to point out , i was aware i was getting no warranty on the basis that the very salesman assured me the car was 100% , in fact the salesman use to own this vehicle so he said and told me it was perfect working order. i wish now for the sake of 100eur i should of taken.

Never ever believe a car salesman.
That being said, it's not looking good for you, I would still however contact the NCA/Solicitor.

There are certain laws about not being able to sign away your consumer rights but I have no idea whether the apply here.

mdebets

Your refusal of the warranty doesn't take away your legal rights under the Sales of Goods act, so you can go to the small claims court, if you only looking for the repairs.
You should get a proper report of a mechanic, what's wrong with the car.
However you having already paid for the repair could stand against you, as you thereby refused the dealer to repair it first (which is his right).

emo72

dodgy dealers move premises when they get too many complaints. reopen and start afresh under a new name. its hard to get money out of these guys.

also buying a car without a warranty, was it sold as a trade deal? you should only do that if you get a mechanic to give it a bill of health. never take their word for it. hope you get it sorted.

coylemj

There have several recent threads where a dealer offered a warranty for a premium and when the punter declined it, they were handed a piece of paper which described the deal as a 'trade' sale.

1. The customer does not have to pay for a warranty when buying from a dealer, there is an implied warranty under consumer legislation.

2. Declining to pay for the warranty offered does not negate the buyers rights under consumer legislation and the dealer claim that this makes it a 'trade' sale is nonsense and will not stand up in court.

The message at this stage should be clear - if a dealer tries to make you pay extra for a warranty, get the fcuk off his property and take your money with you.

Dublin25

venomousfrog - sounds exactly like the guy we bought the car from. Wonder if it actually was now. Like you he too said the car was "100%", total crap! we've so far paid 300€ and looking at more for repair work he's not going to fix.

The NCA have some really good advice, which we are currently following and have no choice but to go through SCC as we can't afford to be at a loss for the repairs having paid for a car that isn't what we were sold!

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

RangeR

venomousfrog wrote: »

The Invoice says the following : customer was offered a warranty at 800eur , reclined warranty for trade price of 700eur.

Just to point out , i was aware i was getting no warranty on the basis that the very salesman assured me the car was 100% , in fact the salesman use to own this vehicle so he said and told me it was perfect working order. i wish now for the sake of 100eur i should of taken.

This wasn't an warranty. The dealer was offering you "insurance", or as some like to call it, "free money". He can not negate your statutory rights, which are still in effect.

Proceed with SCC or get a solicitor.

venomousfrog

ok , well this morning on my way to work , the car completly lost all power on the Naas road , it was so sudden that 2 cars almost smashed into the back of me , ended up pulling to the side of the road - waiting on the AA to pick up vehicle now , im gutted ! rang the car dealer and got the same **** again ,

I need hard solid fact if anyone has it to tell me i am in the right and have a comeback , this guy believes that because i signed the invoice with the no warranty thati have no comeback at all ! :mad:

kippy

venomousfrog wrote: »

ok , well this morning on my way to work , the car completly lost all power on the Naas road , it was so sudden that 2 cars almost smashed into the back of me , ended up pulling to the side of the road - waiting on the AA to pick up vehicle now , im gutted ! rang the car dealer and got the same **** again ,

I need hard solid fact if anyone has it to tell me i am in the right and have a comeback , this guy believes that because i signed the invoice with the no warranty thati have no comeback at all ! :mad:

AS you have been told, you need to get onto the NCA, then a solicitor. Once you speak to these people, they will tell you what your next step is.
Believe me, if you go back to the dealer and advise you have gotten legal advise and this has told you X, he may crack.
You then may need to get a solicitor send a registered letter, stating that you are initiating legal proceedings against the dealer.
You will need to play hardball on this and be prepared to pay some money to get this resolved.

RangeR

National Consumer Agency [NCA]
1890 432 432
or
(01) 402 5555

Ring them....now. You will feel better and be more equipped to deal with the pr!ck.

venomousfrog

RangeR wrote: »

National Consumer Agency [NCA]
1890 432 432
or
(01) 402 5555

Ring them....now. You will feel better and be more equipped to deal with the pr!ck.

I have sent the letter of complaint to the dealer , i have just applied to the dublin district smalls claim registrar and paid the 25eur to make the claim , i called simi to advise that the dealership are using there logos and signs in there showroom ..... and i called the smalls claims and told me if will take 6-8weeks to get some reponse.

venomousfrog

Well i received a reply from the small claims court today . The letter basically says that when the SCC sent the registered letter to the car dealer it was returned because the dealer was not at the address i specified ..... im not making this up , they have been at this address for ages and still operate out of this garage , in fact i went up earlier and they are still there. I rang the court and they told me they will hear my case on the 16th of july @ 10.30 , where I will have to prove that the car dealer is at the address i provided .....

Gillo

That shouldn't be hard to do; Go down and take a photo of the place or get a friend to go to the garage and get a quote for another car from the dealer.

kippy

Gillo wrote: »

That shouldn't be hard to do; Go down and take a photo of the place or get a friend to go to the garage and get a quote for another car from the dealer.

Yep, something on headed paper, get a business card from a sales person etc.......

ScouseMouse

I recall a certain garage in ballymount acting the maggot with someone else not to long ago.

The guy parked outside it with a big sign explaining his issues. He got sorted (I think)

Any use to you ??

venomousfrog

kippy wrote: »

Yep, something on headed paper, get a business card from a sales person etc.......

Grreat tip . I will get one of my friends to drop in and get a business card .

Gurgle

Would the sale of goods act cover a second hand 10yo car (i.e. it's 'reasonable lifetime' has already expired) sold with explicitly no warranty for €700?

What's to stop him for example claiming that you bought it for parts / as a repair project / as a warm place for your dog to sleep?

Del2005

Gurgle wrote: »

Would the sale of goods act cover a second hand 10yo car (i.e. it's 'reasonable lifetime' has already expired) sold with explicitly no warranty for €700?

What's to stop him for example claiming that you bought it for parts / as a repair project / as a warm place for your dog to sleep?

It doesn't matter how old the car is, once bought from a dealer it has to be of merchantable quality and be safe. Writing sold as seen or no warranty on the receipt doesn't remove this.

They only issues they can get away with are writing on the receipt sold for parts or listing the issues on the receipt, if they don't have this on the receipt then they have no chance.

The fact that the car is 10 years old doesn't enter into it. The dealer sold it so they have to stand over it. They can't sell it and then say tough luck it's reached it's EOL if any issues arise. Otherwise we'd have to scrap all cars when they get to 10years or about 120,000 miles as that's the design live of the majority of cars. The majority of cars if serviced correctly will easily last 200k+ miles.

Also the OP traded a car plus €700.

OP,
One trick dodgy dealers use is that they change company names regularly, so I well believe the company you are trying to sue isn't there any more. You buy a car from a company in a yard and if you go back a few later you'll be buying from a different company even thought everything is the same. The joys of unscrupulous people abusing PLCs

venomousfrog

Del2005 wrote: »

It doesn't matter how old the car is, once bought from a dealer it has to be of merchantable quality and be safe. Writing sold as seen or no warranty on the receipt doesn't remove this.

They only issues they can get away with are writing on the receipt sold for parts or listing the issues on the receipt, if they don't have this on the receipt then they have no chance.

The fact that the car is 10 years old doesn't enter into it. The dealer sold it so they have to stand over it. They can't sell it and then say tough luck it's reached it's EOL if any issues arise. Otherwise we'd have to scrap all cars when they get to 10years or about 120,000 miles as that's the design live of the majority of cars. The majority of cars if serviced correctly will easily last 200k+ miles.

Also the OP traded a car plus €700.

OP,
One trick dodgy dealers use is that they change company names regularly, so I well believe the company you are trying to sue isn't there any more. You buy a car from a company in a yard and if you go back a few later you'll be buying from a different company even thought everything is the same. The joys of unscrupulous people abusing PLCs

@ Del2005. Thanks for the info . After i paid for the repairs to the car ( almost 600eur ) the car is still not functioning correctly , i was forced to scrap the car last week as it was unsafe to drive ( i have 2 young children and was terrified that the car was unsafe to travel in ) i have since purchased a small run around to get us from A-B.... Do u think because i got rid of the car that it will have an impact in the outcome of the court . car is no longer on the road now . thanks for ur help

MarkR

venomousfrog wrote: »

@ Del2005. Thanks for the info . After i paid for the repairs to the car ( almost 600eur ) the car is still not functioning correctly , i was forced to scrap the car last week as it was unsafe to drive ( i have 2 young children and was terrified that the car was unsafe to travel in ) i have since purchased a small run around to get us from A-B.... Do u think because i got rid of the car that it will have an impact in the outcome of the court . car is no longer on the road now . thanks for ur help

Tough one. The garage can no longer repair it, or take it back to give you a refund. Was it certified by someone as dangerous to drive?

Best hope is that that small claims court finds against him, but the onus is on the garage then to pay you. They can just "close" the business, rename it, and start again.

venomousfrog

at this stage i dont want a repair or replacement , i just want the 600eur its cost to fix ..... even though it couldnt be fixed by my mechanic .

Del2005

venomousfrog wrote: »

Del2005 wrote: »

It doesn't matter how old the car is, once bought from a dealer it has to be of merchantable quality and be safe. Writing sold as seen or no warranty on the receipt doesn't remove this.

They only issues they can get away with are writing on the receipt sold for parts or listing the issues on the receipt, if they don't have this on the receipt then they have no chance.

The fact that the car is 10 years old doesn't enter into it. The dealer sold it so they have to stand over it. They can't sell it and then say tough luck it's reached it's EOL if any issues arise. Otherwise we'd have to scrap all cars when they get to 10years or about 120,000 miles as that's the design live of the majority of cars. The majority of cars if serviced correctly will easily last 200k+ miles.

Also the OP traded a car plus €700.

OP,
One trick dodgy dealers use is that they change company names regularly, so I well believe the company you are trying to sue isn't there any more. You buy a car from a company in a yard and if you go back a few later you'll be buying from a different company even thought everything is the same. The joys of unscrupulous people abusing PLCs

@ Del2005. Thanks for the info . After i paid for the repairs to the car ( almost 600eur ) the car is still not functioning correctly , i was forced to scrap the car last week as it was unsafe to drive ( i have 2 young children and was terrified that the car was unsafe to travel in ) i have since purchased a small run around to get us from A-B.... Do u think because i got rid of the car that it will have an impact in the outcome of the court . car is no longer on the road now . thanks for ur help

TBH I've no idea. The garage may try and use it as an excuse, they can say that they would have taken it back and refunded you. Or you may be awarded a repair which you can insist be done elsewhere, so you may get some money to pay for repairs.

Don't mention that the car is gone unless directly asked

Unfortunately I think that no matter what happens your out of pocket.

venomousfrog

Just to let you guys now i will be in court on Monday 16th of july . i have all my paperwork and evidence and records of everything - so fingers crossed - thanks to all for your advice and lets hope the courts will judge in my favour - ill keep u informed next monday !

the_syco

venomousfrog wrote: »

car is no longer on the road now . thanks for ur help

Get it certified that said car is not suitable to drive/danger to yourself/others/etc.

=-=

Also check if a Garda can verify that the garage is there, so that if the SCC needs a reputable witness, they could ring the Garda.

Procrastastudy

If they don't show up and a finding is made in your favour you don't have to return the product.

venomousfrog

Hi everyone .

Went to court on the 16th of july and the court will now issue proceedings based on the evidence i showed . However today i received in the post a letter from the court , attached to the letter was a counter claim from the garage seeking 700eur for the cost of a gearbox on the car I traded in against the honda Accord .

I cant believe they are counter claiming for a gear box I paid for when we did the trade in ..... Any advice ? thanks

Procrastastudy

They're within their rights to do so - is this in the SmCC or the DC?

venomousfrog

Procrastastudy wrote: »

They're within their rights to do so - is this in the SmCC or the DC?

Yes , SMCC...... I understand they have rights to do so , but i paid the them 700eur for the gear box on the cari traded in ..... they offered me 1500eur for my car + 500 for the gear + 200 cash to settle the deal .

Procrastastudy

Do you have receipts to back that up? The other thing is - you're a private seller not bound by consumer statues in your dealings with him - he is a commercial seller - have evidence of that.

Quick look at what you've written says you paid €700 for the deal not the gear box - was the gear box in your car banjaxed?

foggy_lad

venomousfrog wrote: »

Hi everyone .

Went to court on the 16th of july and the court will now issue proceedings based on the evidence i showed . However today i received in the post a letter from the court , attached to the letter was a counter claim from the garage seeking 700eur for the cost of a gearbox on the car I traded in against the honda Accord .

I cant believe they are counter claiming for a gear box I paid for when we did the trade in ..... Any advice ? thanks

As long as you are a private individual and not a car trader he has no rights regarding anything he has bought from you much the same as selling something on adverts.ie or ebay it is "caveat emptor" so his counter-claim is just timewasting!

venomousfrog

ok here goes .... the 2002 honda accord was priced @ 2200 .... they offered me 1500 for my 2002 honda civc + 200 cash for the trade ..... they informed on test driving my honda civic that the gearbox was knackered , so they told me that if i cover the cost of a gear box repair ( they told me they could get it done for 500 ) that they would accept the vehicle , so i paid 700 euro ..... they are counter claiming for a gear box that i paid 500euro for so i could drive away in the honda accord . As far as i was concerned the gearbox was fine but i needed a bigger car as the civic was far 2 small for our family needs .... i agreed to pay the 500 + 200 + trade in my car for the new car ....

Procrastastudy

What evidence of that do you have - the oral agreement id fine but some written agreement would be great.

venomousfrog

i have the original sales invoice . its says '' trade in 2002 honda civic with geabox problem for 2002 honda accord - customer was offered a warranty @ 800eur reclined for trade price @ 700..... the warranty would of cost me 100eur extra , i declined the warranty

Procrastastudy

reclined?

Grand if its noted then the guy cant claim he wasn't aware of it. You've no duty anyway but at least he cant claim you're dishonest.

Zab

venomousfrog wrote: »

i have the original sales invoice . its says '' trade in 2002 honda civic with geabox problem for 2002 honda accord - customer was offered a warranty @ 800eur reclined for trade price @ 700..... the warranty would of cost me 100eur extra , i declined the warranty

I'm surprised they're trying it on if the invoice says that.

Gary The Gamer

You will win this in a matter of minutes based on my own experiences of the small claims court. Don't stress over it, get your documents together and enjoy the experience. The judge will probably have a few stern words for the seller which is part of the fun.

venomousfrog

Gary The Gamer wrote: »

You will win this in a matter of minutes based on my own experiences of the small claims court. Don't stress over it, get your documents together and enjoy the experience. The judge will probably have a few stern words for the seller which is part of the fun.

cheers ! i hope your right .

venomousfrog

Well court date is on the 8th October - any more hints or tips are appreciated . im not trying to take these guys to the cleaners I really want them to accept that they were wrong to screw me over and cough up the cost of repairs .