Why is this forum so biased against the No side?

Transpirant

This forum is inherently biased against the No side. The moderators and posters appear hostile towards those advocating a no vote. So why? This board receives a lot of money from businesses advertising their services so obviously it would be within their interest to vote yes: Anyone who lives in a world of take would never kill their cash cow. It's a much easier place to be than the world of earn. But clearly that is no reason to tarnish the no side. It's not a zero sum game you know.

seamus

Have a look on wikipedia for a thing called "Confirmation Biase". What you'll find is that a lot of the "Yes" side appear to be believe that they're being shouted down and overwhelmed by the "No" side.

And the "No" side believe the same to be true.

As for advertising, I think you'll find that the ads are served on an as-is basis, advertisers pay for their ads and that's it. There's no effort made to filter content that might upset them.

Moderators are unpaid and work on their own basis. So even if boards.ie wanted to maintain a particular ethos or agenda, it would have no leverage with which to twist the arms of its moderators (or indeed of its unpaid Admins, who appoint the moderators). A moderator would be well free to tell boards.ie to go stick their agenda without fear of reprisal.

If you can cite particular examples of moderator biase and unfairness, you are free to discuss the issue on the Feedback forum.

--Kaiser--

Transpirant wrote: »

This forum is inherently biased against the No side. The moderators and posters appear hostile towards those advocating a no vote. So why? This board receives a lot of money from businesses advertising their services so obviously it would be within their interest to vote yes: Anyone who lives in a world of take would never kill their cash cow. It's a much easier place to be than the world of earn. But clearly that is no reason to tarnish the no side. It's not a zero sum game you know.

Why don't you fight back against the 'Yes' side with some cogent arguments rather than whining? It doesn't matter how many are on the opposing side if you can debate well

The forum is not biased against anything

and we are not hostile toward anyone except messers

I thanked a post advocating a no vote the other day so give it a rest

meglome

Transpirant wrote: »

This forum is inherently biased against the No side. The moderators and posters appear hostile towards those advocating a no vote. So why?

Even europhiles like myself would appreciate this treaty we're signing up for isn't exactly brilliant, but then the position the country is in isn't exactly brilliant. But we also appreciate that the limits contained in it are also contained in previous EU arrangements and treaties. We're for the most part changing how these limits are enforced, which is a good thing (IMO). On balance it's a good thing.

I think if hostility has crept in it's because many people come in and make a statement "I'm voting No". They are asked why and they give a list of reasons that logically speaking are not actual reasons to vote no. You rarely get people just coming in and saying "I'm voting Yes", then giving nonsense reasons for it. And if it does happen you can be sure they are called on it too.

Transpirant wrote: »

So why? This board receives a lot of money from businesses advertising their services so obviously it would be within their interest to vote yes: Anyone who lives in a world of take would never kill their cash cow. It's a much easier place to be than the world of earn. But clearly that is no reason to tarnish the no side. It's not a zero sum game you know.

Myself and the GF were basically discussing this last night as it happens. Especially on the likes of the Journal I get disagreed with quite a lot. I don't call these people sheep, I don't call them idiots, I don't suggest they are being paid for the comments they are making. I actually often wonder if I'm correct myself and go double check. But here's what happens to me constantly...

meglome wrote: »

After posting on the Journal for the past few weeks about the Fiscal Compact I just wanted to share my observations on how the No side (for the most part) is operating.

No side tactics…
1. Pull on the heart strings.
2. Try to drum up nationalistic fervour.
3. Claim the person is a sheep, an idiot or whatever other name they fancy.
4. Scaremongering. But they *are* stealing our babies.
5. Blame anyone else, especially the Germans. (Often included with xenophobic mentions of Nazis, Fascists etc).
6. Claim the person is being paid for their opinions.

Don't me wrong I'm not saying this Fiscal Compact is the best thing ever, far from it. But it's a sad reflection that the majority (IMO) of the No side are stooping to these.

I think given Sam Vines post about No side lies on the Lisbon treaty it's really doesn't reflect well on the level of debate generally.

It's a strange one, I used to find the exact same thing on the conspiracy theories forum. The last resort of people was to think that they were actually wrong, even when presented with evidence that they were clearly wrong. So I'm agreeing with the confirmation bias suggestion from Seamus above, though I'm pointing the finger.

Here's what said Hawkeye123 about the question "Do you think boards has a more left wing or right wing bias"

Hawkeye123 wrote: »

In my experience, boards is left wing. The bolshie users would no doubt say the website is more right wing but that of course is relative to where they put themselves on the political spectrum. This website has but one flaw - it is left wing.

And my own opinion from that thread

meglome wrote: »

The more I read this thread the more I'm convinced that people's own biases are reflected in how they perceive others. This isn't news to be me but interesting none the less.

I have no interest in getting into who's left or right wing. Though I will say I find the moderation to be excellent. People perhaps don't seem to realise they are being warned/infracted/banned as they simply break the clearly laid out forum rules. There seems to be an impression from some they are victims of some sort of conspiracy when the simple explanation is they are just wrong.

For example the poll about the Fiscal compact is a 60% no vote so clearly your claim that there is a bias here against the no side is incorrect. No voters are far less inclined to support their no vote and and far less likely to have legitimate reasons for that no vote. IMO.

K-9

The After Hours forum on here seems to have far more No voters but that doesn't make me think it is biased or has some agenda.

I've seen a good few no voters now posting here in politics but tbh I don't see much willingness to actually debate the Treaty, most of the objections seem to be at the Government or they are Euroskeptics anyway. I've no problem with that but there doesn't seem to be much appetite to actually debate the Treaty itself and any debate there is tends to be from yes posters.

hatrickpatrick

There's always been a slight bias towards the extreme right here on Boards in general and on Politics in particular. The fact that people who have every right to hold and voice opinions opposed to government and corporate power are dismissed on boards as "crusties" and "loonies" says it all, really.

I stick around here for two reasons, (a) the hope of possibly getting through to people, and (b) the hope that I might come to understand how people who hold such views came to hold them and continue to believe in them.

The only thing that pisses me off is dismissiveness and derogatory comments aimed at activists. Considering those who won our independence were also "activists", it's fairly galling to hear anyone who stands up to abuse of power being labelled an unemployed, dole scrounging hippy.

Just remember that it's not representative of the general population and you'll survive

hatrickpatrick

bluewolf wrote: »

and we are not hostile toward anyone except messers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PBptSDIh8

christmas2012

did anybody get the vote no leaflets from the european mp nigel farage through the door..

meglome

christmas2012 wrote: »

did anybody get the vote no leaflets from the european mp nigel farage through the door..

It's unbelievable really, anyone anywhere can say what they like about our referenda even to the point of sending out leaflets here. Though I'd have to imagine many no voters are not happy about these guys promoting a no. Bad enough Ganley but the equivalent of the BNP also looking for a no is the kiss of death.

Ozymandius2011

I don't really think it is.

meglome

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

I don't really think it is.

You don't think people like the UK independence party sending out leaflets supporting a no vote are going to be the kiss of death for the no campaign? Sure kiss of death might be overstating but they are toxic for the no campaign, they'd be better sending out leaflets supporting a Yes vote if they want a no. Any right thinking Irish person would not want to be associated with these people.

K-9

It was funny but not as hilarious as the one with the big Turkey on the front for Lisbon 2.

Ozymandius2011

meglome wrote: »

You don't think people like the UK independence party sending out leaflets supporting a no vote are going to be the kiss of death for the no campaign? Sure kiss of death might be overstating but they are toxic for the no campaign, they'd be better sending out leaflets supporting a Yes vote if they want a no. Any right thinking Irish person would not want to be associated with these people.

I was responding to the question in the thread title i.e. I don't think boards.ie is biased. I agree that UKIP should mind their own business but the yes side are just as bad because of the funding from European Parliament groups giving the yes side a massive warchest that is swamping the internet and offline with advertising that the no side simply cannot compete with. That too is foreign interference as far as I am concerned.

meglome

K-9 wrote: »

It was funny but not as hilarious as the one with the big Turkey on the front for Lisbon 2.

And you'd think they'd learn, it actually helped the Yes side then too.

Mance Rayder

christmas2012 wrote: »

did anybody get the vote no leaflets from the european mp nigel farage through the door..

YES it was hilarious, insulting and depressing all at the same time. I read it, bitched about it and tore it up and through it in the bin. What an insult to the Irish. He uses cartoons and propaganda (including a happy Icelandic woman to support his argument that Iceland has the right idea) to try to persuade people to vote his way. If I was gonna vote no this kind of thing would persuade me to change my mind. It really is trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

The guy is the leader of the UK independence party, a party that wants UK out of the EU. A no vote from the Irish would help destabilise the EU even more so and thus further his own agenda. He cares nothing for the Irish and anyone swayed by this piece of red top newspaper sensationalist crap will be voting for all the wrong reasons.

jwilco

Leaflets like that don't help the no side but you can't allow that to stop you voting no.

Cracker_Jack

The mods don't want their European money cut off so they want to censor people advocating a no vote.

meglome

Cracker_Jack wrote: »

The mods don't want their European money cut off so they want to censor people advocating a no vote.

hehehe I'd like to see you explain how unpaid mods would have their European money cut off? And while you're at it explain why Europe would need to pay anyone in the first place.

Mance Rayder

jwilco wrote: »

Leaflets like that don't help the no side but you can't allow that to stop you voting no.

Indeed. However I think the fact that I will vote yes will.:pac:;)

Godge

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

There's always been a slight bias towards the extreme right here on Boards in general and on Politics in particular.

Explain please how come the poll on the referendum is so out of touch with the the real opinion polls in the newspapers and reflects a significantly more anti-Treaty left-wing bias on boards? Is boards overly left-wing or are the opinion polls in the newspapers a conspiracy of our right-wing overlords?

If the newspapers are involved in a conspiracy when it comes to opinion polls, how come the boards poll called the last general election so badly?

fianna saor

tbh i dont think a most of these polls are of any great reliability, theres only one poll that matters...

steelcityblues

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

There's always been a slight bias towards the extreme right here on Boards in general and on Politics in particular. The fact that people who have every right to hold and voice opinions opposed to government and corporate power are dismissed on boards as "crusties" and "loonies" says it all, really.

What is the 'extreme right'? I would consider Mussolini and several other dictators to be fairly described as that, but I think most people are just fed up with those in establishment circles living in a different world from them.

As for moderators, not just here, but they usually have a pro-establishment outlook, especially on political issues. Pro-establishment type of people are more likely to vote YES, if FF, FG and Labour are all campaigning for it.

fries

Fine Gael holding those contradictory positions sound like stubborn yet delusional attitudes normally found in 5 year olds. There remains only one way to deal with kids digging in their heals, make them deal with the unfortunate results of their actions.

What precisely is anyone from the FG-LAB parade thinking will change positively with the next election? There are no words you can say that will cause them to believe you will kick them out at this point, they are a people drunk on self righteous conspiracy theories as much as they are on corporate socialism, there's no sober reasoning with them now.

Time to rip off the band-aid and let the Government feel the rejection of its policy, it's going to be tough for all, but delaying that won't make the problem any better. Ireland should leave the Euro on 1st June, keep the banks closed through the long weekend and reopen with the Irish Pound. Then, let's shake the toxic bank debt once and for all.

meglome

fries wrote: »

Fine Gael holding those contradictory positions sound like stubborn yet delusional attitudes normally found in 5 year olds. There remains only one way to deal with kids digging in their heals, make them deal with the unfortunate results of their actions.

You know I was shocked when I discovered they were human and likely to not all say the exact same things all the time. Need to sit down.

K_1

fianna saor wrote: »

tbh i dont think a most of these polls are of any great reliability, theres only one poll that matters...

The Boards polls are extremely biased due to the sample being very unrepresentative of the population.

However the official (Red C, Millward Brown etc.) polls have a margin of error of 3%, so they are a pretty reliable guide of opinion at the time they are taken. How much that changes between now and polling day is what really matters though!

K-9

K_1 wrote: »

The Boards polls are extremely biased due to the sample being very unrepresentative of the population.

However the official (Red C, Millward Brown etc.) polls have a margin of error of 3%, so they are a pretty reliable guide of opinion at the time they are taken. How much that changes between now and polling day is what really matters though!

Although the Lisbon 2 poll on politics was pretty damn close!

The latest poll probably reflects recent events like Greece and the No side are starting to gain inroads. About time as it was starting to look very boring going on the previous polls!

Fenian Army

bluewolf wrote: »

The forum is not biased against anything

and we are not hostile toward anyone except messers

I thanked a post advocating a no vote the other day so give it a rest

Strictly speaking that is not true, it is biased against republicans.

That said I don't think its biased against the "no side"

K-9

Fenian Army wrote: »

Strictly speaking that is not true, it is biased against republicans.

That said I don't think its biased against the "no side"

Nope, the longest ban I've handed out was to an anti-Republican poster. Politics does not come into mod decisions, we try to be unbiased as we can and trouble makers do get attention.

The main criticism of mod decisions is from factions on all sides of varying debates, they get too emotional and impartial and usually can't understand somebody else giving an unbiased opinion. Level headed posters who transgress rules tend to take mod action on the chin.

Fenian Army

K-9 wrote: »

Nope, the longest ban I've handed out was to an anti-Republican poster. Politics does not come into mod decisions, we try to be unbiased as we can and trouble makers do get attention.

The main criticism of mod decisions is from factions on all sides of varying debates, they get too emotional and impartial and usually can't understand somebody else giving an unbiased opinion. Level headed posters who transgress rules tend to take mod action on the chin.

I never said personal bias.

Its written into the rules, the fact that you cannot argue the republican POV on the troubles without massive amounts of doublespeak (even then its treacherous grounds) least you be accused of "justifying violence".

Bit mad that you can't answer questions on here the same way as countless elected reps across Ireland would if asked.

K-9

Fenian Army wrote: »

Its written into the rules, the fact that you cannot argue the republican POV on the troubles without massive amounts of doublespeak (even then its treacherous grounds) least you be accused of "justifying violence".

Posters of varying views have been sanctioned for that.

Bit mad that you can't answer questions on here the same way as countless elected reps across Ireland would if asked.

There's a feedback thread if you want to ask more.

Fussgangerzone

Well I'm probably going to vote no myself, and I think your assertion is fundamentally wrong.

It's simply a case that the most active people on this part of boards, who are mods as a result of their constant activity, happen to be in favour of voting yes on the ESM referendum.

I've been here before with Lisbon 2. Their opinions are their own, they don't represent boards.ie. If they weren't going to poke holes in an argument they disagree with, they shouldn't be on a political forum.

Other forums are available.

beeftotheheels

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

It's simply a case that the most active people on this part of boards, who are mods as a result of their constant activity, happen to be in favour of voting yes on the ESM referendum.

Whoah, Pringle's case has already been decided by the Supreme Court? When? Where? How? Has a date been announced for the ESM referendum?

Of course, if you meant the referendum on the TCSG then that illustrates a big part of the issue. The yes campaign tend to be a bit pedantic about the truth as to what we are voting on, the no campaign tend to concern themselves less with truths and more with untruths.

Fussgangerzone

beeftotheheels wrote: »

Whoah, Pringle's case has already been decided by the Supreme Court? When? Where? How? Has a date been announced for the ESM referendum?

Of course, if you meant the referendum on the TCSG then that illustrates a big part of the issue. The yes campaign tend to be a bit pedantic about the truth as to what we are voting on, the no campaign tend to concern themselves less with truths and more with untruths.

Ha, if you can find me one person who's primary concern is what this referendum means to our constitution, I'll give you that one.

I don't know about your views on facts and unfacts, but our government has been trading in some serious FUD, so maybe there's no need for Yes-voting boardsies to add to it?

beeftotheheels

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

Ha, if you can find me one person who's primary concern is what this referendum means to our constitution, I'll give you that one.

It means sod all for our constitution.

We're putting a line in the constitution saying that the Oireachtas may ratify the treaty.

Goes without saying that the Oireachtas don't have to ratify the treaty even if we vote yes, in much the same way as a mother telling her child that they "may" spend their pocket money on sweets doesn't make the child buy sweets. It is likely that the child will buy sweets, but it is possible that they'll lose the money on the way to the shop, or buy crisps and cola instead.

Goes without saying that if, in the future, the Oireachtas wish to terminate our membership of the treaty nothing in what we've put in the Constitution would prevent them from doing so.

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

I don't know about your views on facts and unfacts, but our government has been trading in some serious FUD, so maybe there's no need for Yes-voting boardsies to add to it?

And the no campaign haven't?

At least the yes campaign has been about trying to explain risks associated with what we know.

As things currently stand a No vote will deny us access to the ESM.

The no campaign has been about "hoping" against all evidence that the Yes campaign is wrong on the negative consequences of a no vote, and lying to exaggerate the negative consequences of a yes e.g. the treaty will cause us to have to implement €5bn more cuts in 2015 when the treaty doesn't even apply to us until 2018.

They've also been lying about this treaty actually doing something operative to our Constitution which it doesn't.

NoAnimalID

Socialism did not fail Ireland, but corrupt politician at the service of greedy bankers and globalists did. Why should more tax money be given to private sector? why does the yes side corporate socialism?

Godge

NoAnimalID wrote: »

why does the yes side corporate socialism?

What does this mean? It doesn't make sense.

fries

The Irish have been very poorly served by their political classes. One reason there hasn't been more public protest is that in times of economic trouble, the brightest and best emigrate.


Really feel sorry for the Irish they have acted honorably and have not blamed others for their plight. Now they are expected to carry the can for those those eurozone institutions who will not except the consequences for their actions.

Godge

fries wrote: »

The Irish have been very poorly served by their political classes. One reason there hasn't been more public protest is that in times of economic trouble, the brightest and best emigrate.


Really feel sorry for the Irish they have acted honorably and have not blamed others for their plight. Now they are expected to carry the can for those those eurozone institutions who will not except the consequences for their actions.

Have you any evidence to link the lack of protest to the emigration rates. Surely those left behind would be even more encvouraged to protest? Unless of couse they recognised they had a great deal on social welfare.,

swampgas

fries wrote: »

Really feel sorry for the Irish they have acted honorably and have not blamed others for their plight. Now they are expected to carry the can for those those eurozone institutions who will not except the consequences for their actions.

Those Eurozone institutions will, indirectly, be better regulated in future under the fiscal treaty. Voting Yes will mean Irish institutions are more likely to behave themselves in the future as well.

Francie Barrett

Transpirant wrote: »

This forum is inherently biased against the No side. The moderators and posters appear hostile towards those advocating a no vote. So why? This board receives a lot of money from businesses advertising their services so obviously it would be within their interest to vote yes: Anyone who lives in a world of take would never kill their cash cow. It's a much easier place to be than the world of earn. But clearly that is no reason to tarnish the no side. It's not a zero sum game you know.

It's quite simple.

If we don't pass this treaty, there won't be any money for public services. Not enough guards on the street, even more trollies in hospital ward, waiting lists, pensioners not being able to afford to eat, etc. It would be a disaster for the country.

BlitzKrieg

Transpirant wrote: »

This forum is inherently biased against the No side. The moderators and posters appear hostile towards those advocating a no vote. So why? This board receives a lot of money from businesses advertising their services so obviously it would be within their interest to vote yes: Anyone who lives in a world of take would never kill their cash cow. It's a much easier place to be than the world of earn. But clearly that is no reason to tarnish the no side. It's not a zero sum game you know.

My observation has been that unlike after hours and some other website forums, this forum enforces a very strict policy of backing up your statements. It also doesnt allow for simple post youtube and say nothing threads

So from this a number of things occured:

During the earlier referendums and the european elections these 2 points alone work very against the grass roots social media focus aspect of the No/euroskeptic campaigns. A substantial amount of the posts from the no side where not by people who were pro-actively involved but were passing on the word as they had picked it up via email/facebook/youtube and those that were not locked for being spam (linking a libertas video and saying nothing got a thread locked) or had been repeated so many times that posters had given up responding to them and instead just linked to a previous post destroying the chainmail (usually a scofflaw post)

The yes campaign does not do this, not for some noble cause, but because they are idiots who rather have their own website and pay for advertising then encoruge supporters to spread the word. The result is posters on the EU forum etc who are in support of the treaty/pro european are not someone passing on something they got in an email or on facebook. No they are someone with an active interest in the topic, making them more invested, more knowledgable and willing when challanged to research and follow up.

Essentially making them stronger posters.


There are posters who are like that who would be on the no campaign side, but they would be posters who would be on that side of the campaign but if there wasnt a referendum they would still be an active poster on the politics forum and would abide by the back up your points/discuss your links rules the forum enforces (For example: Sand, hatrickpatrick)

After the referendum/elections the strong posters stayed because they have an interest in the topic, the weak posters left because to them the debate was over.


So to recap the reason boards appears to have a bias towards the yes side whenever a european referendum is on is because it enforces a requirement to BACK UP YOUR POINTS.



I will say this referendum is a bit more raw then the prior, while Lisbon came down to an argument about the treaty and was simply matter of who had the facts, people have a lot more emotions tied up this time, a lot more anger and being a treaty with an economical focus, the facts are shaken by the nature of the beast, economists can and do disagree on the effect of the treaty etc.

Probably a big part of why I havnt been as active this time around, I found the lisbon referendums to be quite fun it was like playing detective among all the legalize and then being phoenix wright in some courtroom drama.

Cracker_Jack

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

Well I'm probably going to vote no myself, and I think your assertion is fundamentally wrong.

It's simply a case that the most active people on this part of boards, who are mods as a result of their constant activity, happen to be in favour of voting yes on the ESM referendum.

I've been here before with Lisbon 2. Their opinions are their own, they don't represent boards.ie. If they weren't going to poke holes in an argument they disagree with, they shouldn't be on a political forum.

Other forums are available.

Agreed. I seen that too.

meglome

Cracker_Jack wrote: »

Agreed. I seen that too.

Didn't you know it's all a conspiracy against you?

C14N

Dammit I always come to these late and end up quoting walls of text

Transpirant wrote: »

This forum is inherently biased against the No side. The moderators and posters appear hostile towards those advocating a no vote.

While I agree that this forum does seem to push Yes, I disagree that there has been hostility against other members just because they say No. It seems that a few select posters like Scofflaw and meglome form the backbone of the Yes argument on here and they sure swayed me a while back when I was undecided. I have just seen much better researched and presented posts from people like them.

There seem to be more individuals who are for No though as reflected in the poll. The thing is that a lot of them won't actually discuss it or they just come briefly before leaving again, unlike the Yes which has a solid base who have resided here a long time.

fries wrote: »

Time to rip off the band-aid and let the Government feel the rejection of its policy, it's going to be tough for all, but delaying that won't make the problem any better. Ireland should leave the Euro on 1st June, keep the banks closed through the long weekend and reopen with the Irish Pound. Then, let's shake the toxic bank debt once and for all.

Seems legit.

NoAnimalID wrote: »

why does the yes side corporate socialism?

I'll answer your question with a question: Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

fries wrote: »

Really feel sorry for the Irish they have acted honorably and have not blamed others for their plight.

Honestly always thought we were top notch at blaming other for our plight.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Wild Bill

bluewolf wrote: »

The forum is not biased against anything

and we are not hostile toward anyone except messers

I disagree. Just look at the overwhelming "yes" contributions of the Mods and Admins.

I was banned for making a "no" point by a Mod who is a virulent "yes" supporter on the basis that my arguments were "not up to the forum standards"

Kafkaesque! :rolleyes:

The bias here is something that needs a much deeper and less intimidated debate.

leincar

Transpirant wrote: »

This forum is inherently biased against the No side. The moderators and posters appear hostile towards those advocating a no vote. So why? This board receives a lot of money from businesses advertising their services so obviously it would be within their interest to vote yes: Anyone who lives in a world of take would never kill their cash cow. It's a much easier place to be than the world of earn. But clearly that is no reason to tarnish the no side. It's not a zero sum game you know.

Just going back to the first post by the thread starter. I take exception as someone in business being classified as someone living in a world of take. Trust me I'm an earner. I earn a hell of a lot admittedly but not at the expense of anyone.

Captainjjack

Wild Bill wrote: »

I disagree. Just look at the overwhelming "yes" contributions of the Mods and Admins.

I was banned for making a "no" point by a Mod who is a virulent "yes" supporter on the basis that my arguments were "not up to the forum standards"

Kafkaesque! :rolleyes:

The bias here is something that needs a much deeper and less intimidated debate.

I read about that on Politics.ie

K-9

At last count, the OP had 5 shill accounts at least going, making a mockery of this thread. So much for one man, one vote, democrat and sexist that I am!