Court Summons

FridayBravo

Hi,

About 7 months ago I got a fixed penalty notice for travelling in excess of the speed limit (59kmph in a 50kmph from a Garda van, not private). I decided to go to court as the road signage was incorrect in the area.

About 6 weeks ago I got a phone call from a blocked number. It was the Gardai from the town I come from (and where my car is registered at my parents house) informing me they had a letter from me and would I come in and collect it or would they drop it out. She didn’t tell me it was a summons, but she did say “it was probably a speed van thing”. I told her (truthfully) that I now live in Dublin and that I rarely go home anymore. I said it would be easier to collect it from a Garda Station in Dublin or get it delivered there. I gave her my address (an apartment block) and told her the nearest Garda Stations to me.

However since then I have received nothing, and no Garda has called to my parents house. No one has called to my apartment, but I’m rarely home and the post boxes are behind a security door. My car is parked underground in a large secure carpark. I got two missed calls from a blocked number the following week, but no message was left on my voicemail.

Does anyone know what happens next? How long before the court date Is a summons issued? Is there any requirement on my part to actually go seek this summons out (if it is in fact a summons)?


Thanks
FB

PS - I realise I could simply ring the Gardai, but to be honest even though I believe I’m correct, I’d rather not have to take a day off work and go to court.

ResearchWill

So you want to prove you are right, and have put the state to full proofs, but you don't want to put yourself out in any way.

The Garda can go to court and have the summons reissued, you will eventually be served, the Garda will explain to the court the issues they had with service.

If you really want to prove yourself correct, arrange with your parents that the summons can be served on them, tell AGS if they agree to serve on parents, or arrange to pick up next time home, then turn up in court or have solicitor turn up and fight your case, if you are convicted appeal, and then turn up in circuit court.

Its you who has made the choice to have your day in court, so have it.

FridayBravo

ResearchWill wrote: »

So you want to prove you are right, and have put the state to full proofs, but you don't want to put yourself out in any way.

The Garda can go to court and have the summons reissued, you will eventually be served, the Garda will explain to the court the issues they had with service.

If you really want to prove yourself correct, arrange with your parents that the summons can be served on them, tell AGS if they agree to serve on parents, or arrange to pick up next time home, then turn up in court or have solicitor turn up and fight your case, if you are convicted appeal, and then turn up in circuit court.

Its you who has made the choice to have your day in court, so have it.

Nope. Never said I wanted my day in court. Simply asked a few questions.

Btw, why would I need a solicitor? Ive never been in court in my life, but solicitor for a speeding ticket? That's like paying a doctor pitting on a band aid. There is something seriously wrong with a legal system that would require a solicitor for something so trivial.

ResearchWill

FridayBravo wrote: »

Nope. Never said I wanted my day in court. Simply asked a few questions.

Btw, why would I need a solicitor? Ive never been in court in my life, but solicitor for a speeding ticket? That's like paying a doctor pitting on a band aid. There is something seriously wrong with a legal system that would require a solicitor for something so trivial.

You said "I decided to go to court" hence what I said.

I never said get a solicitor I said "turn up in court or (important word or) have a solicitor turn up" this advice was in response to your statement that you would rather not take a day off work. So it may be cheaper to instruct a local solicitor than take a day off work plus petrol etc. hence why I said or instruct a solicitor.

If its so trival why is it then an issue, just ignore AGS and see how it pans out.

Del2005

FridayBravo wrote: »

ResearchWill wrote: »

So you want to prove you are right, and have put the state to full proofs, but you don't want to put yourself out in any way.

The Garda can go to court and have the summons reissued, you will eventually be served, the Garda will explain to the court the issues they had with service.

If you really want to prove yourself correct, arrange with your parents that the summons can be served on them, tell AGS if they agree to serve on parents, or arrange to pick up next time home, then turn up in court or have solicitor turn up and fight your case, if you are convicted appeal, and then turn up in circuit court.

Its you who has made the choice to have your day in court, so have it.

Nope. Never said I wanted my day in court. Simply asked a few questions.

Btw, why would I need a solicitor? Ive never been in court in my life, but solicitor for a speeding ticket? That's like paying a doctor pitting on a band aid. There is something seriously wrong with a legal system that would require a solicitor for something so trivial.

By not paying the fixed penalty notice you've opted for court. The fact you didn't know this would imply you've no idea how our laws work. For that reason alone you need to at least talk to a solicitor.

AFAIK, and I'm sure the more knowledge will correct if needed, our speed limits aren't based on the road signs they are set by the local council or NRA, ignorance of the law is no defence. I think the UK has speed limits based on the sign.

Athlone_Bhoy

FridayBravo wrote: »

Nope. Never said I wanted my day in court. Simply asked a few questions.

Well then the next time they ring simply hang up. When they call to you with a summon simple say you won't be accepting any paperwork and close the door in their face. If something comes registered in the post don't except it. All about contract.

Procrastastudy

FridayBravo wrote: »

I decided to go to court as the road signage was incorrect in the area.

Good for you. What was wrong about it out of interest?

FridayBravo wrote: »

PS - I realise I could simply ring the Gardai, but to be honest even though I believe I’m correct, I’d rather not have to take a day off work and go to court.

One cannot have ones cake and eat it...

Motorist

Less than 6mp/h over the limit. I wouldn't lose any sleep over that nonsense.

Procrastastudy

Athlone_Bhoy wrote: »

Well then the next time they ring simply hang up. When they call to you with a summon simple say you won't be accepting any paperwork and close the door in their face. If something comes registered in the post don't except it. All about contract.

And don't forget to close your eyes put your fingers in your ears and go "na na na na na na na na".

Motorist wrote: »

Less than 6mp/h over the limit. I wouldn't lose any sleep over that nonsense.

There is a reason the limits are set at 50Kph. Its been linked to lower death rates, especially among children, than at 60Kph if a collision happens. I'm all for a bit of foot down - but in appropriate places.

MadsL

Athlone_Bhoy wrote: »

All about contract.

Next you will be waffling about the Judge's Oath.

FridayBravo

ResearchWill wrote: »

If its so trival why is it then an issue, just ignore AGS and see how it pans out.

I really can't imagine anything more trivial for the courts than someone traveling 9kmph over the limit at 11.15pm on a national primary road.

Procrastastudy

FridayBravo wrote: »

I really can't imagine anything more trivial for the courts than someone traveling 9kmph over the limit at 11.15pm on a national primary road.

You're the person dragging this into the court.

FridayBravo

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Good for you. What was wrong about it out of interest?
QUOTE]

The speed limit indicator sign was defaced with graffiti (and has been for at least 3 years as I looked on Google Street view).

And yes, I do want my cake and to eat it too. Wouldn't you if you could?

My query really is does anyone know the steps that are taken in issuing a summons in these cases.

Also if there is any obligation on me to contact AGS?

FridayBravo

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

You're the person dragging this into the court.

Yes I am. But I'd prefer not to have to.

Procrastastudy

FridayBravo wrote: »

My query really is does anyone know the steps that are taken in issuing a summons in these cases.

Also if there is any obligation on me to contact AGS?

ResearchWill wrote: »

The Garda can go to court and have the summons reissued, you will eventually be served, the Garda will explain to the court the issues they had with service.

Given the above I's hazard a guess that there isn't but as RW has pointed out co-operation might be in your interest if you are going to claim an issue with the signage.

Being difficult with the summons is just going to make it look like you are difficult in general. Get a photo of the sign and a print out of googlemaps and go to court.

Bear in mind though it appears to me that if you are going along at 60 and there is a sign you cant make out it might be an idea to assume its a 50 as very few signs just tell you to go the speed you were going. Beyond that it will depend on whether this was coming into a town/village where it would be obvious that the speed limit is lower.

Good luck in challenging it and stop messing around with the summons!

FridayBravo

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Given the above I's hazard a guess that there isn't but as RW has pointed out co-operation might be in your interest if you are going to claim an issue with the signage.

Being difficult with the summons is just going to make it look like you are difficult in general. Get a photo of the sign and a print out of googlemaps and go to court.

Bear in mind though it appears to me that if you are going along at 60 and there is a sign you cant make out it might be an idea to assume its a 50 as very few signs just tell you to go the speed you were going. Beyond that it will depend on whether this was coming into a town/village where it would be obvious that the speed limit is lower.

Good luck in challenging it and stop messing around with the summons!

Just to be clear, I have in no way messed around with the summons issueing. I was contacted once and asked for my normal address by a member of AGS and I gave it to them. I got 2 missed calls from an unknown number that did not leave a message on my voice mail (which may not even have been AGS). If a message was left by AGS I would contact them. But it wasn't.

Again, I'm simply asking if someone knows the procedures for issuing a summons.

audidiesel

what will happen is more than likely they will attempt to give the summons to you in your dublin location.

it they cannot serve it there, then they will probably serve the summons at your home house to your parents for you or alternatively just keep re-issuing it until its served on you in dublin.

the summons has to be served 7 clear days before the court date. if not served before then its re-issued. the summons never goes away until its served. its automatically re-issued by civilian staff.

in any case, it will eventually get served to you. you dont have to do anything in relation to it. your under no obligations that way at all. so just wait and you will get your day in court

Ash.J.Williams

Not quite true, if a summons is difficult to serve, they occasionally do go missing, also this guy needs a solicitor, i get the impression he is going shoot himself in the foot.

Indricotherium

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Not quite true, if a summons is difficult to serve, they occasionally do go missing, also this guy needs a solicitor, i get the impression he is going shoot himself in the foot.

+1 to this

Just ring the flecking Garda station and get them to post the summons to your mas house.

You will have to appear in court to argue your side. The gardaí can't square this for you based on a print off I google maps and a photo. That's not how it works anymore.

Do get a solicitor. If you are completly unfamiliar with law etc and intend on relying on advice off the Internet, there is a good chance you will end up shooting yourself in the foot. The freman advice above is the kind of thing to expect.

It already appears to an outsider that you've been deliberately dodging the summons.

Also, there is nothing sinister about Garda stations havin blocked numbers a lot of them do.