11/12 Season Roundup

Kiith

So, seasons over for us, with just the Champions League to decide on our European dreams for next year. How do you all feel after such a topsy turvy season?

I can't help but be a bit disappointed. Obviously, getting 4th is great if you had said at the start of the season that we'd get 4th, i'd have been delighted. But blowing a 9 point lead over Arsenal though has left a sour taste with me. Was it Harry to England, were the players just tired, or was it just bad luck? I don't know, but it sucked. From title contenders, to us not even thinking we'd get 6th.

The team has improved overall though, with some standout players this season. Kaboul and Walker are two of the most improved players in the league, and Friedel is rock solid for us. Really makes a difference when we have them playing. Hopefully Sandro can hold his place next season, as he was brilliant for the last few weeks. Also, i don't think Modric or Bale will leave in the summer.

We definitely need a few players though. Some more cover on the wings would be nice, and obviously a center back (Vertonghen) and a goalscorer (Remy?), and hopefully once Chelsea lose on Saturday we can get the deals done.

So, overall happy, but disappointed we didn't hold onto a third place that had our name on it.

kippy

Kiith wrote: »

So, seasons over for us, with just the Champions League to decide on our European dreams for next year. How do you all feel after such a topsy turvy season?

I can't help but be disappointed overall. Obviously, getting 4th is great if you had said at the start of the season that we'd get 4th, i'd have been delighted. But blowing a 9 point lead over Arsenal though has left a sour taste with me. Was it Harry to England, were the players just tired, or was it just bad luck? I don't know, but it sucked. From title contenders, to us not even thinking we'd get 6th.

The team has improved overall though, with some standout players this season. Kaboul and Walker are two of the most improved players in the league, and Friedel is rock solid for us. Really makes a difference when we have them playing. Hopefully Sandro can hold his place next season, as he was brilliant for the last few weeks. Also, i don't think Modric or Bale will leave in the summer.

We definitely need a few players though. Some more cover on the wings would be nice, and obviously a center back (Vertonghen) and a goalscorer (Remy?), and hopefully once Chelsea lose on Saturday we can get the deals done.

So, overall happy, but disappointed we didn't hold onto a third place that had our name on it.

In sport nothing has your name on it, until your name is on it. Just ask United or City at various stages int he past three months.

Ormus

It's a hard one to measure in ways. Obviously we would have taken 4th at the start of the season, but for one thing, we would have assumed 4th would mean Champions League, and for another we wouldn't have known that 4th involved finishing behind our London rivals who we were 12 points ahead of in January.

I don't think Spurs can make much progress without getting Champions League football, to help us keep our best players and maybe sign some decent ones. So if Bayern beat Chelsea I'll call our season an overall success, and if not, its a failure.

SuprSi

Ormus wrote: »

So if Bayern beat Chelsea I'll call our season an overall success, and if not, its a failure.

This is the key thing for me. While I'm happy we finished 4th, I'm not as happy as when we first did it because of the lead we blew and also the game on Saturday. If Bayern win, I'll relax and look forward to being involved in the CL again and hopefully making it past the qualifier!

If Chelsea win, this season will have to be viewed as a complete failure.

ziedth

There is concept in gambling but particularly blackjack where you forget everything that has happened before and each hand (or game if you will) is the only one that matters.

Reason I bring this up when it looked like we won't even finish in the top 6 I'm pretty sure that all of us here would have taken 4th. Then, by luck or good play we got it with points to spare.

Concentrating on the lost lead over other teams is irrelevant.

Ormus

ziedth wrote: »

There is concept in gambling but particularly blackjack where you forget everything that has happened before and each hand (or game if you will) is the only one that matters.

Reason I bring this up when it looked like we won't even finish in the top 6 I'm pretty sure that all of us here would have taken 4th. Then, by luck or good play we got it with points to spare.

Concentrating on the lost lead over other teams is irrelevant.

That concept involves you assessing your goals from where you are at each point in time.

From where we were in January, we failed big time.

ziedth

Indeed and at a more recent point in time then January (After QPR game for example) we would have sold our grandmother's to achieve 4th. that's what we should be happy with.

Additionally I don't think it's any coincidence that when Woy took the England job was the same time we took the thumb out.

golfball37

Any team that couldn't win a game for 3 months when it mattered would consider their season a failure.

I won't be deviating from this view. We finished 20 points behind man u & I am struggling to see how many of their players are better than ours.

mickman

golfball37 wrote: »

Any team that couldn't win a game for 3 months when it mattered would consider their season a failure.

I won't be deviating from this view. We finished 20 points behind man u & I am struggling to see how many of their players are better than ours.

this is true but there is a winning mentality and spirit that flows through united and this alone is worth its weight in gold.

City have it now because of last sunday, its a difficult mentality to get but once you have it , it tends to stick

Leinstersqspur

One massive game tomorrow, getting nervous and we're not even in it! #coybm

RoboClam

If Bayern win, they will officially become my second team!

Rob094

soo...yeah. Failure it is then.

SuprSi

Rob094 wrote: »

soo...yeah. Failure it is then.

Yep, we might as well have finished 5th. At least we wouldn't have been bothered with tonight's result. Complete failure of a season.

Kiith

Have to say that i'm absolutely gutted tonight. The thoughts of going back to the Europa League is disheartening to say the least. I've a really bad feeling about this summer now, and all the prospects that we were looking at will likely reconsider joining us.

I almost hope that anyone who wants out is sold in the next 2 weeks, and we can start trying to rebuild. But i just know that won't happen, and it will drag on and on still August.

pancho84

Still felt sick waking up this morning. This is the lowest I've felt being a Spurs fan and there's been plenty of ups and downs over the years but this is by far the worst and what's worse we weren't even playing. Still finding it hard to believe how Chelsea won.

Agree with last post about Ade and Modric gone. Real are already being linked to Modric this morning. Just get as much as we can for him now and let him go. I think Bale might stay another season but who knows.

It will interesting to see who we are linked with now but our bargaining power has taken a major step back.

All in the day of the Spurs supporter I guess. COYS.

mushykeogh

so finishing 4th is now considered a failure by some on here, i must have missed something over the last 20 years.

pancho84

Its not a failure finishing fourth however the aim was to be back in the CL next season and we aren't due to last nights events. (Through no fault of our own). Some will consider it a failure given how far clear of Arsenal we were at one point this season, however I think a lot us would have settled for fourth at the start of the season so for me its not a failure, however no CL is.

We have to be realistic of what happens the club going forward now and it could lead us losing a few of our top players and make it difficult for us to sign some top class players this summer.

mushykeogh

keane=cock wrote: »

hope robben is found hanging in his house but

Juvenile mate, im pretty sure he didnt intend to miss it.

greendom

i know this won't help at all, but i'm an Arsenal fan and i genuinely feel sorry for you guys. That must be really hard to take. I can't begin to think how I'd be feeling had the situation been reversed.

Saab Ed

Time for a Arry, Bale and Modric to move on I say. If you beleive all the rumours then Arry is gonna be approached by Chelsea next week anyway.

If Bale and Modric want to go then its better to sell them for a fortune before they become a problem next season rather than an asset. We're not that far away and keeping players who clearly dont want to play for the club would actually pull us backwards. Modric spent half of last season like that.

4th is not failure but there's no point pretending that we're not dissapointed, CL was the Holy Grail. Arry blew it, not the players, not the club, Arry. I'm a Harry fan but I'm disgusted that he didnt make a statement of some sort around the England job and we deserved better after the support he got. No his time is done IMO. Bring on Martinez, let him spend the Bale/Modric money and hope that we can go forward rather than backwards, which is all that will happen next year if Arry stays.

Ultimate sickner would be to see Arry go to Chelsea and bring the boys with him though.

mickman

keane=cock wrote: »

summary= ****e season. dreading the summer transfer window, hate chelsea, hope robben is found hanging in his house but

absolutely disgraceful comment. total muck. Keep these comment for your own kind of people man

Hatch99

mushykeogh wrote: »

so finishing 4th is now considered a failure by some on here, i must have missed something over the last 20 years.

When your a country mile ahead of 4th who are your rivals with their worst team in years, yes it's a failure when they finish ahead of you.

Rob094

mushykeogh wrote: »

so finishing 4th is now considered a failure by some on here, i must have missed something over the last 20 years.

I'm pretty sure you haven't. Yeah if we were offered 4th at the start of the season (presuming that entailed champions league football)we would have taken it but considering the season we could/should have had, you can't help but see this year as a failure. Tottenham are a big club now so we have to start thinking like one.

mrkiscool2

As a Man United fan, I feel absolutely gutted for Spurs. I really don't think it's fair that just because you win the CL means you get to qualify ahead of a team who have, over the course of the season, been a better team. I think they should let both Spurs and Chelsea in, Chelsea as champions and Spurs as 4th placed in England!

mushykeogh

Hatch99 wrote: »

When your a country mile ahead of 4th who are your rivals with their worst team in years, yes it's a failure when they finish ahead of you.

its disapointing, and a big blow, but a failure? Equalling your best ever prem league is a failure? Bizzare how you suddenly think spurs are now so big a club that fourth is a failure, just bizarre!

Hatch99

mushykeogh wrote: »

its disapointing, and a big blow, but a failure? Equalling your best ever prem league is a failure? Bizzare how you suddenly think spurs are now so big a club that fourth is a failure, just bizarre!

I want to aim for the best. And imo we should have finished better than 4th, is that ok with you ? Would you have taken 4th when we were x points ahead of the 4th place team ? Arsenal have just sold there best player, and there next best player when he left misses the whole season, and we still can't finish ahead of them, not good enough.

mickman

We are all gutted , absolutely gutted but being negative is a waste of time

Why don't we try and actually win the Europa league? It's still a cup in it's own right and being involvedin a European cup final would be awesome

Enough of the moaning and let's put silverware in the cabinet next season

mushykeogh

Hatch99 wrote: »

I want to aim for the best. And imo we should have finished better than 4th, is that ok with you ?

Yes thats fine with me, i want us to aim for the best as well.

Would you have taken 4th when we were x points ahead of the 4th place team ?

Of course not, we all would have took it if offered after the first two games in August.

Arsenal have just sold there best player, and there next best player when he left misses the whole season, and we still can't finish ahead of them, not good enough.

Henry, Fabregas, Nasri all leave, and they still finish above us, yes that means we are not good enough, yet. But considering we never bloody finished higher than 4th anyway, how is this season a failure.

3 seasons ago, man city were everyone's favorite for fourth, we finished ahead of them, 2 seasons ago, everyone was expecting them to be title contenders, yet they only finish 3rd. This season they win the title, but only after two goals in the last four minutes of injury time against a team fighting relegation.

And all that with a blank cheque book and players on excess of 200 thousand a week!

Our additions were a 40 year old goal keeper, a loanee from city ( who most on here either didn't want or didn't think he was good enough) and Parker, a midfielder from a relegated club (who most people on here said he wasn't good enough, too old and too slow, but turned out to be our player of the season).

Unless we have millions to spend (which we dont), it takes time to go from being a consistent top six side, to being a consistent top four side. I think we are going in the right direction, the Harry for England thing certainly screwed us, but we still recovered and finished fourth. The thing that really pisses us all off is the fact that chelsea won last night and dumped us out of champs league, otherwise we are all on here celebrating champs league for second time in three years today!

A sickener, yes, a pain in the hole yes, but not a failure of a season. Until we are consistently and repeatedly finishing second or third, can we call fourth a failure.

Dont forget we slipped up badly before the Harry saga broke, late goals against Newcastle and Swansea away were classic spurs, Ledley getting caught out against City and Arsenal cost us dearly. The table never lies, we havent developed as a side that can claim third. We are close, but not there yet.

Hatch99

mushykeogh wrote: »

Yes thats fine with me, i want us to aim for the best as well.

Of course not, we all would have took it if offered after the first two games in August.



Henry, Fabregas, Nasri all leave, and they still finish above us, yes that means we are not good enough, yet. But considering we never bloody finished higher than 4th anyway, how is this season a failure.

3 seasons ago, man city were everyone's favorite for fourth, we finished ahead of them, 2 seasons ago, everyone was expecting them to be title contenders, yet they only finish 3rd. This season they win the title, but only after two goals in the last four minutes of injury time against a team fighting relegation.

And all that with a blank cheque book and players on excess of 200 thousand a week!

Our additions were a 40 year old goal keeper, a loanee from city ( who most on here either didn't want or didn't think he was good enough) and Parker, a midfielder from a relegated club (who most people on here said he wasn't good enough, too old and too slow, but turned out to be our player of the season).

Unless we have millions to spend (which we dont), it takes time to go from being a consistent top six side, to being a consistent top four side. I think we are going in the right direction, the Harry for England thing certainly screwed us, but we still recovered and finished fourth. The thing that really pisses us all off is the fact that chelsea won last night and dumped us out of champs league, otherwise we are all on here celebrating champs league for second time in three years today!

A sickener, yes, a pain in the hole yes, but not a failure of a season. Until we are consistently and repeatedly finishing second or third, can we call fourth a failure.

Dont forget we slipped up badly before the Harry saga broke, late goals against Newcastle and Swansea away were classic spurs, Ledley getting caught out against City and Arsenal cost us dearly. The table never lies, we havent developed as a side that can claim third. We are close, but not there yet.

I'd still be saying the manager is not good enough for us, his performance as manager this season has been a disgrace, and he failed us when he came to the crunch in the last 4 months.

2nd Row Donkey

... well lads, back after 2 weeks hols. Was boarding the plane home last night with the game in injury time. Proper gutted when the pilot announced the result somewhere over france...




Truth be told, I had fully prepared myself for the worse. I'm well used to been in these situations, as a spurs fan this kinda thing follows us around like a bad smell. Can anyone who's followed the rollcoaster that is spurs over the last 20 years honestly say they were surprised that events transpired the way they did.


Im a perverse sort of way I was glad Chelsea won (of course I want CL football at the lane next season, and I want us to keep our best players and sign more of them) but at the same time I think some of the spurs players (not them all) got exactly what they deserved : no CL football next season and a big dose of reality - if you fail to perform like you did for 8-10 weeks in a cruical part of the season then you deserve to lose out, simple as.

KingdomYid

Just can't pick myself up off the floor today, I just can't get my head around finishing in the top four and missing out. People can say it is our own fault and so on but it does not lighten the pain, we have been robbed of CL and it bloody hurts. Tbh I have fallen a little out of love with football after all that happened last night, can't even think of a new season and having to do it all again with or without our star players.

Hatch99

KingdomYid wrote: »

Just can't pick myself up off the floor today, I just can't get my head around finishing in the top four and missing out. People can say it is our own fault and so on but it does not lighten the pain, we have been robbed of CL and it bloody hurts. Tbh I have fallen a little out of love with football after all that happened last night, can't even think of a new season and having to do it all again with or without our star players.

Yes it hurts like fcuk mate. I am convinced our day will come though, maybe not next year, but we will have our day. We'll support you ever more...


COYS

ruiseal

KingdomYid wrote: »

Just can't pick myself up off the floor today, I just can't get my head around finishing in the top four and missing out. People can say it is our own fault and so on but it does not lighten the pain, we have been robbed of CL and it bloody hurts. Tbh I have fallen a little out of love with football after all that happened last night, can't even think of a new season and having to do it all again with or without our star players.

That's exactly how I feel too, absolutely gutted!

ruiseal

Hatch99 wrote: »

Yes it hurts like fcuk mate. I am convinced our day will come though, maybe not next year, but we will have our day. We'll support you ever more...


COYS

But shouldn't that have been this year?

Ormus

mushykeogh wrote: »

Yes thats fine with me, i want us to aim for the best as well.

Of course not, we all would have took it if offered after the first two games in August.



Henry, Fabregas, Nasri all leave, and they still finish above us, yes that means we are not good enough, yet. But considering we never bloody finished higher than 4th anyway, how is this season a failure.

3 seasons ago, man city were everyone's favorite for fourth, we finished ahead of them, 2 seasons ago, everyone was expecting them to be title contenders, yet they only finish 3rd. This season they win the title, but only after two goals in the last four minutes of injury time against a team fighting relegation.

And all that with a blank cheque book and players on excess of 200 thousand a week!

Our additions were a 40 year old goal keeper, a loanee from city ( who most on here either didn't want or didn't think he was good enough) and Parker, a midfielder from a relegated club (who most people on here said he wasn't good enough, too old and too slow, but turned out to be our player of the season).

Unless we have millions to spend (which we dont), it takes time to go from being a consistent top six side, to being a consistent top four side. I think we are going in the right direction, the Harry for England thing certainly screwed us, but we still recovered and finished fourth. The thing that really pisses us all off is the fact that chelsea won last night and dumped us out of champs league, otherwise we are all on here celebrating champs league for second time in three years today!

A sickener, yes, a pain in the hole yes, but not a failure of a season. Until we are consistently and repeatedly finishing second or third, can we call fourth a failure.

Dont forget we slipped up badly before the Harry saga broke, late goals against Newcastle and Swansea away were classic spurs, Ledley getting caught out against City and Arsenal cost us dearly. The table never lies, we havent developed as a side that can claim third. We are close, but not there yet.

You talk a lotta sense in fairness Mushy. We would all have taken 4th at the start of the season but it feels so much like failure cos we blew 3rd and Chelsea took our champions league spot.

4th is a great result in ways and so utterly $hite in other ways.

DubPerryman

As like every Spurs fan on here, I'm gutted. It's taken me until now to bring myself to even look at the internet and I avoided Sky Sports News until this morning - for the first time in my life I was glad they were reporting on cricket.

I've come to realise that it's not just the disappointment of not getting Champions League football that has depressed me, but the manner in which it was snatched from our hands.

If Chelsea had of won the Final 3-0 I would have been less gutted. It was the fact that Bayern tried their hardest not to win - missed penos, one solitary corner kick poorly defended, missed chances.... and so on.

People will blame luck. They will say, things just didn't go "our way". But that's b0llox!

It's true what they say, you make your own luck. Luck only comes in to the equation when something doesn't work out for you - it's used to deflect attention from the real issue.

Just like Foster injuring himself the day before West Brom played Arsenal or Capello walking because John Terry is a racist scumbag. These are all poor deflections from the truth.

Arsenal drew with Norwich. The very next day our Champions League fate was in our hands. All the above excuses wouldn't have mattered an iota if we had beaten Villa away.

1-1 with 15 mins to go, they've had one shot ALL game and Harry Redknapp brings Scott Parker on for Van der Vaart.

THAT, for me, rounds up our season pretty well.

We had Champions League qualification in our hands, nothing else mattered. Our squad of players was easily the third strongest squad of players in the league. But through ridiculous man-management and poor tactics we ended up fourth in the league. This season fourth isn't good enough!

mushykeogh

DubPerryman wrote: »

1-1 with 15 mins to go, they've had one shot ALL game and Harry Redknapp brings Scott Parker on for Van der Vaart.

THAT, for me, rounds up our season pretty well.

VDV only came off in the 89 minute. Parker to hold, modric, sandro, lennon bale to go forward.

DubPerryman

mushykeogh wrote: »

VDV only came off in the 89 minute. Parker to hold, modric, sandro, lennon bale to go forward.

Apologies for my sensationalist reporting.

I just felt that substitution, in the context of the season, summed up my complete lack of faith is Harry Redknapp's ability to take us any further.

DubPerryman

DubPerryman wrote: »

Apologies for my sensationalist reporting.

Just checked it. There was eight minutes left at the time of the substitution. Enough time for Defoe to score.

SuprSi

DubPerryman wrote: »

Just checked it. There was eight minutes left at the time of the substitution. Enough time for Defoe to score.

But it was a tactical substitution. Everyone went forward, even Gallas who was effectively playing as a striker. Parker was brought on to facilitate these players going forward but Villa had 11 men behind ball. Pathetic at home against 10 men but very difficult to break down, especially a man down.

mushykeogh

DubPerryman wrote: »

Apologies for my sensationalist reporting.

I just felt that substitution, in the context of the season, summed up my complete lack of faith is Harry Redknapp's ability to take us any further.

The gas thing is, if he took sandro or gallas off and and put on Saha or Dos Santos, Villa break in the 93rd (or 97th!)minute and score a winner, you would have no shortage of people criticizing Harry for chasing the game so late when we were down to ten men, away from home and had a point in the bag!

Remember as well, it wasnt Harrys fault the players couldnt take their chances that day, we only scored from a penalty.

mushykeogh

DubPerryman wrote: »

Just checked it. There was eight minutes left at the time of the substitution. Enough time for Defoe to score.

Yes, 7 minutes of injury time, and in every game ive seen VDV play he is usually shagged by 75 minutes, that and the fact he has a history of calf and hamstring strains i think it was a good substitution. People read Parker for VDV on paper and dont take it in the context of the game, its not as if he told Parker to go play in VDV position. It was to hold in order for the rest of the midfield to get forward.

Its like BAE against city, if his hoof forward finds defoe who scores, he is a legend, instead, he gives the ball away with seconds left that leads to a penalty.

Thats sport, you always make the correct decision in hindsight.

DubPerryman

Lads, I understand it was a tactical decision, but it was the wrong tactical decision.

At that point Arsenal had dropped two points against Norwich and Newcastle were playing City. So, at 1-1 and with ten minutes to go the three points we would have gained from a goal were way more important than the point we would have dropped if they scored.

mushykeogh

DubPerryman wrote: »

Lads, I understand it was a tactical decision, but it was the wrong tactical decision.

At that point Arsenal had dropped two points against Norwich and Newcastle were playing City. So, at 1-1 and with ten minutes to go the three points we would have gained from a goal were way more important than the point we would have dropped if they scored.

But it was an attempt to get the 3 points! how is that the wrong decision???

BERBA

mushykeogh wrote: »

But it was an attempt to get the 3 points! how is that the wrong decision???

an attempt to get 3 points ???? by bringing Parker on for VDV:eek: !! , how you make that out?

mushykeogh

BERBA wrote: »

an attempt to get 3 points ???? by bringing Parker on for VDV:eek: !! , how you make that out?

Jaysus lads, ive explained it above, in simple terms, parker came on and held midfield, everyone one else went forward, including Gallas as mentioned earlier.

mushykeogh

BERBA wrote: »

an attempt to get 3 points ???? by bringing Parker on for VDV:eek: !! , how you make that out?

its not as if he told Parker to go play in VDV position. It was to hold in order for the rest of the midfield to get forward.

But it was a tactical substitution. Everyone went forward, even Gallas who was effectively playing as a striker. Parker was brought on to facilitate these players going forward

And as i also said earlier, VDV was finished at this stage of the game and wasnt contributing much in the way of creativity, VDV off, Parker on, more license for Modric, Lennon, Bale and Sandro to get forward.

BERBA

mushykeogh wrote: »

Jaysus lads, ive explained it above, in simple terms, parker came on and held midfield, everyone one else went forward, including Gallas as mentioned earlier.

so you think it was a right decision to throw Gallas up top , take VDV off and let parker sit.

Right

DubPerryman

mushykeogh wrote: »

Jaysus lads, ive explained it above, in simple terms, parker came on and held midfield, everyone one else went forward, including Gallas as mentioned earlier.

Yeah this is where I think we're disagreeing.

If he really wanted Parker on to hold the midfield, why didn't Parker come on for Gallas and put Defoe on for VDV?

mushykeogh

DubPerryman wrote: »

Yeah this is where I think we're disagreeing.

If he really wanted Parker on to hold the midfield, why didn't Parker come on for Gallas and put Defoe on for VDV?

Because Villa had 11 players defending deep, two big feicers of centre halves with a defensive midfield sitting on top of them. Defoe is going to get zero space in the box and is not great man for winning headers in a crowded box.

At least with Parker holding the rest of the midfield, especially Lennon and Bale can offer more width to deliver a cross to Ade and Gallas, both good headers of a ball.

Defoe would just add numbers to an already congested area

so you think it was a right decision to throw Gallas up top , take VDV off and let parker sit.

Yes.

SuprSi

DubPerryman wrote: »

Yeah this is where I think we're disagreeing.

If he really wanted Parker on to hold the midfield, why didn't Parker come on for Gallas and put Defoe on for VDV?

That's a fair point, but he probably felt that Gallas offered more of an ariel threat than Defoe and seeing as it was really last ditch stuff, wanted Gallas there to win any headers. With 11 men behind the ball, the chances of playing the ball into the goal were slim and unfortuantely we don't have any striker who can agressively attack a potential headed opportunity.