advice on grass

celtictiger32

first of all apologies for shoddy thread title couldnt think of what way to put it and secondly apologies if something similar appears on another thread, in a bit of a rush this evening.

to the point..... i am trying to convert a patch of land roughly 1/2 to3/4 of an acre into grass. at the moment there is some grass there but a lot of weeds and wild grass and is very uneven due to tractor marks, bikes and horses. i am trying to get a flat grass surface from this for a kids football pitch. there are 2 of us doing the work (cutting waist high grass with a petrol mower) and budget is virtually zero. i dont want to dig it up and start from scratch as im hoping to use it in a few months. advice please.....................

ymurtagh

hi tiger, i have come accross this few a times, cattle on grass and low budget etc, and its easy,, what you needs is a Road roller,,, yeah the ones they use for tarmac. you need a 4-5ft wide 12tonne roller,, only weighs 2.5tonne but when compaction in turned on it applies 12tonne of force, try do it after a few days of rain,, grass will then slow pop back up each day and as it does cut it each day and mower will be able to handle it no problem,
cost 100-150 to hire roller,,very easy to operate

muckyhands

Cant say I would ever recommend compacting wet soil, yet alone soil when I dont even know what soil type it is.

celtictiger32

ymurtagh wrote: »

hi tiger, i have come accross this few a times, cattle on grass and low budget etc, and its easy,, what you needs is a Road roller,,, yeah the ones they use for tarmac. you need a 4-5ft wide 12tonne roller,, only weighs 2.5tonne but when compaction in turned on it applies 12tonne of force, try do it after a few days of rain,, grass will then slow pop back up each day and as it does cut it each day and mower will be able to handle it no problem,
cost 100-150 to hire roller,,very easy to operate

that was kind of our plan alright, we have started cutting with a half decent petrol mower and when we get enough of the area cut we were going to rent out a roller (140 we were quoted for the day) would you recommend getting the roller before we cut the rest??. also would spreading the cut grass thicken up the patchy areas to save us buying a load of seed?

paddy147

ymurtagh wrote: »

hi tiger, i have come accross this few a times, cattle on grass and low budget etc, and its easy,, what you needs is a Road roller,,, yeah the ones they use for tarmac. you need a 4-5ft wide 12tonne roller,, only weighs 2.5tonne but when compaction in turned on it applies 12tonne of force, try do it after a few days of rain,, grass will then slow pop back up each day and as it does cut it each day and mower will be able to handle it no problem,
cost 100-150 to hire roller,,very easy to operate

Why would you purposely compact watered/wet soil with over 12 tons of impact pressure/force?

ymurtagh

is there something I've missed. Two people on two threads, this and cats, asked for advice. I responded with proven answers and you both have shot them down?

paddy147

ymurtagh wrote: »

is there something I've missed. Two people on two threads, this and cats, asked for advice. I responded with proven answers and you both have shot them down?

Whos shooting you down here on this thread,or any thread??

All I did was post and ask you a simple question here.:).....(awaiting an answer as to why you would compact wet soil and soil structure like this?)



PS-"proven"??......What exactly have you proven?


Also,the other thread,that you posted on,you posted wrong and missleading info.People do have a right to ask you a question,when you post various links and missleading information.

No one is shooting you down (far from it),so please dont take offence to being asked a question or 2 and people responding to your posts and website links.

redser7

It seems like the worse sort of advice, no offense intended. Compaction is one of the reasons why grass (or anything) fails to grow. You could ruin the soil structure forever. Granted it is not for a lawn, but even for a playing field I would have thought this would be a very bad idea.

ymurtagh

is there something I've missed. Two people on two threads, this and cats, asked for advice. I responded with proven answers and you both have shot them down?

paddy147

ymurtagh wrote: »

is there something I've missed. Two people on two threads, this and cats, asked for advice. I responded with proven answers and you both have shot them down?

3 people now. (Edited to say 4 people now).

And everyone more or less says the same thing to you,regarding the matter.;)

What exactly have you proven on either thread?



I only asked you a simple question,but cant seem to get an actual answer.

clintondaly

Hi

I agree with not compacting the soil,been there done that,now it has no drainage and the grass is in poor condition.

paddy147

redser7 wrote: »

It seems like the worse sort of advice, no offense intended. Compaction is one of the reasons why grass (or anything) fails to grow. You could ruin the soil structure forever. Granted it is not for a lawn, but even for a playing field I would have thought this would be a very bad idea.

You aint alone there.

ymurtagh

yes red i agree its not best practice but on tigers low budget it the best idea. I'm open to hearing others. What i mean by proven is that it has work for me where i have done it before on pitches for schools and soccer clubs. sorry paddy may has took you up wrong paddy but thought you were trying to get at me. Thats my opinion on cats and i respect yours.

celtictiger32

thanks y murtagh for the advice, if people are saying this is a bad idea could they please give me their opinion on a better one

redser7

Personally I couldn't because for the scale of the job. But the principles are the same as for a regular lawn. Compaction is bad.
Perhaps a couple of rotivators or a mini-digger to scarp off the surface and level it. Then sow the seed.

celtictiger32

redser7 wrote: »

Personally I couldn't because for the scale of the job. But the principles are the same as for a regular lawn. Compaction is bad.
Perhaps a couple of rotivators or a mini-digger to scarp off the surface and level it. Then sow the seed.

i know thats probably best but i was hoping to avoid this if at all possible. we're hoping for a small patch to be fairly decent in a couple of months. we're not looking for perfection here just half decent grass and level, as regards soil structure i havent really got a clue i wouldnt be too well up on the likes of that but if drainage were to be an issue against using the roller there is a kind of ditch that runs along the side of this land and everything slopes down towards it would that help with the drainage if i decided to roll??

anybody know if my other suggestion would work about spreading the cut grass over the patchy areas to 'fill them in' as such.?

redser7

No the grass would just rot away fairly quickly. That's good for the soil in the long run but it wont fill it in the gaps. Any chance your budget could stretch to a few tons of soil and seed? CHeck free website. You could then fill in dipped areas and level with a rake and then just broadcast the seed. It's bound to improve what you have.
Healthy soil has miniscule pores or holes in it that allows both air and water to move and drain through it. If you compact the soil you close these pores. The results are very poor growth in the soil and flooding/runoff. In hot weather the surface will turn rock hard and crack and nothing will grow in it. In wet weather the water wont percolate down and will flood and rot whatever is managing to grow in it. The ditch would probably help with the run-off.
Can you throw a few photos up? One of the whole area and then maybe a couple of close-ups to see how big the dips are and what's groing? A picture paints a thousand words and all that.

paddy147

redser7 wrote: »

No the grass would just rot away fairly quickly. That's good for the soil in the long run but it wont fill it in the gaps. Any chance your budget could stretch to a few tons of soil and seed? CHeck free website. You could then fill in dipped areas and level with a rake and then just broadcast the seed. It's bound to improve what you have.
Healthy soil has miniscule pores or holes in it that allows both air and water to move and drain through it. If you compact the soil you close these pores. The results are very poor growth in the soil and flooding/runoff. In hot weather the surface will turn rock hard and crack and nothing will grow in it. In wet weather the water wont percolate down and will flood and rot whatever is managing to grow in it. The ditch would probably help with the run-off.
Can you throw a few photos up? One of the whole area and then maybe a couple of close-ups to see how big the dips are and what's groing? A picture paints a thousand words and all that.

+1 to the above.

Short term pain for long term gain.:)

muckyhands

Ymurtagh, I meant no offence with my posts and sorry if you feel it came across that way.

muckyhands

How about slitting the area into smaller sections and doing it bit by bit. Youll probaby feel like your making more progress rather than looking at the big picture, if you know what I mean.

First thing I would do is use pegs to mark out the level you want and it will give you a visual way to assess the levels as you go, and as redser7 advised filling in hollows/ dips and levelling as you go, spreading seed where needed.

If theres more weeds than grass present I would think about spraying the area first too.

Defo post some pics if you can.

redser7

Bit by bit is definately the way to go. And don't look up Very disheartening to see you've taken a couple of hours to do a few square feet. Get on the blower and recruit a few helpers. Ham sambos, some sounds and a few beers and you'll make a big dent in it.

paddy147

redser7 wrote: »

Bit by bit is definately the way to go. And don't look up Very disheartening to see you've taken a couple of hours to do a few square feet. Get on the blower and recruit a few helpers. Ham sambos, some sounds and a few beers and you'll make a big dent in it.

Boardsie Gardeners BBQ day then???:D

celtictiger32

ill try and get some pics up if i can folks im not very computer literate in that sense but ill give it a bash over the next day or two.

yes muckyhands i was thinking about spraying the area first theres a lot of dead thistle and other weeds, but the one thing thats breaking my heart using the petrol mower are these clumps for want of a better word of wild grass they're everywhere. im hoping to get some kind of spray that kills the weeds but leaves the grass but the thing worrying me there is that these clumps will probably be left because they're a type of grass.

its a big job to undertake i know and i suppose if i were to do everything by the book it would probably cost a pretty penny which we havent got. my line of thinking in spreading the cut grass was, hopefully the seed from the cut grass would resow when spread hence gradually thiickening the grass, i didnt just mean to cover the bare patches with cut grass. we bought a box of seed the other day to test a patch it cost us around 25-30 euro but only covered a fraction of what we planned so reseeding will take a few bob too, basically im just trying to cut a few corners and get it done as cheaply and quickly as possible

redser7

I know where you are coming from. For seed maybe try a co-op or agricultural supplier for larger cheaper sacks.
You might also try the farming or sports sections on boards where people might be better experienced with dealing with converting rough ground into playing fields.