Torx screws? Why? just Why??!

kona

Does anybody else get extremely pissed off anytime the have to even remove a torx screw? Id say 90% of them I have to cut off or drill out because they round. Bikes or cars, doesnt matter, they round even when ya look at them. Before anybody asks, Im not using **** tools, Ive the full Torx socket sets both male and female.
Im nearly at the stage of treating them like rivets and drilling them all out.

Whats wrong with a nice Phillips head or a flat head, or even a hex head??

Ardennes1944

i love using torx pieces ive never rounded one off either

kona

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

i love using torx pieces ive never rounded one off either

even the small ones? must get tips off ya

Zimmerframe

kona wrote: »

Whats wrong with a nice Phillips head or a flat head ??

Because torx is a superior screw, which resists "cam out " better than Philips or slotted.

kona

Zimmerframe wrote: »

Because torx is a superior screw, which resists "cam out " better than Philips or slotted.

Maybe the screws I use are just made of ****. What I find happens is as you turn it jumps up out of the hole if that makes sense. I try leaning into them but no luck.

Out of 6 holding on the inner wheel liners, I got two off and 4 rounded and I drilled them off. They were the smallest Torx Bit.

bijapos

Sorry, but you're doing something wrong kona, maybe using the wrong sized bit or too much torque or something else.

Torx are easier and less prone to rounding, that's why the industry changed over to them some time ago.

Zimmerframe

Look out for a little bit of crap in the torx recesses, as it can keep the "bit" lifted up, so it is only gripping on the very top of the screw.

kona

bijapos wrote: »

Sorry, but you're doing something wrong kona, maybe using the wrong sized bit or too much torque or something else.

Torx are easier and less prone to rounding, that's why the industry changed over to them some time ago.

Not im my case, They are the only screws I manage to round. Maybe im just retarded with them lol.

Most the force I use is going straight into the bolt, then I slowly turn, but then ya get that softening feeling and i stop, eventually the tool jumps up and out of the screw. Its mainly the smallest size, the bigger ones are grand(ish)

little swift

a little bit of heat dose the trick for me and the propper leverage.

kona

Zimmerframe wrote: »

Look out for a little bit of crap in the torx recesses, as it can keep the "bit" lifted up, so it is only gripping on the very top of the screw.

Well the latest were in a fairly exposed part, and the ones on bikes are fairly exposed too, maybe thats whats causing the problems.

Spacedog

torx are simply suited to automated tools for manufacture, they are optimised to be used by machine heads and not by humans.

CJhaughey

If you are experiencing a lot of cam out use a dab of valve grinding paste on the fastener.

wonski

kona wrote: »

Does anybody else get extremely pissed off anytime the have to even remove a torx screw? Id say 90% of them I have to cut off or drill out because they round. Bikes or cars, doesnt matter, they round even when ya look at them. Before anybody asks, Im not using **** tools, Ive the full Torx socket sets both male and female.
Im nearly at the stage of treating them like rivets and drilling them all out.

Whats wrong with a nice Phillips head or a flat head, or even a hex head??

My car had four torx screws holding coils on top of the engine. When i got the car it had 2 torx, and 2 Philips ones, now it has 1 torx only, but when i'am done with it, there will be none of them. I don't even want to talk about it anymore... I hate them.

Owen

Honestly, gotta say I prefer using them.

mickdw

Owen wrote: »

Honestly, gotta say I prefer using them.

Yep, I have never seen w troublesome one yet and they usually tend to snap open and be nice and free on the thread after that.
I can see how a very rusty one might cause issue but apart from that, I fail to understand how anyone would round one.

keithclancy

Torx don't handle age well.. any sort of corrosion and they fall apart and shear in such a way that it will go on but never come off again.

Had this issue when replacing the rear hubs on the Volvo ... was a weird size too, half size that wasn't in my set.

Switched them over to Allen head bolts with the same rating, far easier to use when their hard to access.

Pottler

If you get into the habit of using a cordless impact driver on them it makes life easier - you can concentrate on pressing in while the driver takes care of jolting them free and turning them out.

wonski

keithclancy wrote: »

Torx don't handle age well.. any sort of corrosion and they fall apart and shear in such a way that it will go on but never come off again.

Had this issue when replacing the rear hubs on the Volvo ... was a weird size too, half size that wasn't in my set.

Switched them over to Allen head bolts with the same rating, far easier to use when their hard to access.

This explains my issues, the car is 12 years old so they had to go at some stage. Also realised the difference between philips head and allen head, it is the latter i have replaced torx with (in my language we use more slangish words to describe head type, so i am never sure what is it called in english, but i learn more every day...)

kona

Pottler wrote: »

If you get into the habit of using a cordless impact driver on them it makes life easier - you can concentrate on pressing in while the driver takes care of jolting them free and turning them out.

This is what I try to do , although with a socket. still rounds, I think the issue is that they are in manky condition and corroded. The ones that do come off look to be in better condition.

Besides poor access, they are my biggest pain in the ass with fixing cars.

Voodoomelon

Took 22 12 year old torx out my my transmission pan by hand, not a single one stripped. Use them all the time on airsoft gearboxes, love em.

kona

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Took 22 12 year old torx out my my transmission pan by hand, not a single one stripped. Use them all the time on airsoft gearboxes, love em.

They are usually the female ones?? (well the ones you use a female torx set on??) or where they the male ones?


I must be cursed by them so lol

JerCotter7

Definitely doing something wrong I have never rounded the male ones and 1 female because the bit was messed up.

Voodoomelon

kona wrote: »

They are usually the female ones?? (well the ones you use a female torx set on??) or where they the male ones?


I must be cursed by them so lol

Female screws, male heads.

Jimdagym

Seeing a huge increase in torx on machines even in the last 3-4 years.
I don't mind them. I've definitely had the least trouble With them.

101sean

The other one that throws me is say an M8 bolt with a 10mm head. Like the Torx screw and many other components they are designed for machine assembly in a clean environment, not for taking apart after 8 years of road salt and cow ****e sprayed on them!

Mycroft H

keithclancy wrote: »

Torx don't handle age well.. any sort of corrosion and they fall apart and shear in such a way that it will go on but never come off again.

Had this issue when replacing the rear hubs on the Volvo ... was a weird size too, half size that wasn't in my set.

Switched them over to Allen head bolts with the same rating, far easier to use when their hard to access.

+1

I absolutely despise the bloody things. It is not through poor tools, I've a full set of PB swiss torx heads and I still dont like them. The old ones still shear far to easily.

Give me the allen key any day.

Pkiernan

Excellent article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx

It could be worse OP, you could have Bristol or Pentabular fasteners!

wonski

Pkiernan wrote: »

Excellent article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx

It could be worse OP, you could have Bristol or Pentabular fasteners!

It gets worse - have a look at double hex...
pentalobe is just the way to say do not touch, in my opinion.

Nissan doctor

I've never had any more issue with torx then any other fastener types TBH.

I'd say its more down to not using the correct size or poor quality tools. The ones in the wheel arch liners like the OP mentions(VW I presume?) are prone to getting lots of dirt etc into them meaning that the tool doesn't sit in the full way, making rounding much more likely.

Popoutman

It's much easier to work with a misbehaving torx fastener than a misbehaving hex socket bolt. I dislike trying to apply lots of torque to a phillips head screw - those are almost guaranteed to lift instead of turning when you are trying to work with a stuck one, destroying the head and rendering it very hard to continue the extraction. Worst case scenario (for extraction only) with a damaged torx bolt is finding a suitable flathead driver to fit with a little persuasion, allowing a good torque to be applied.
To be honest, if it's a difficult environment it's usually better to have hex head bolts than socket bolts. Though there are applications where the narrower heads of socket bolts makes sense (cylinder heads especially).
If the corrosion is bad enough that the torque to turn the bolt portion is higher than the torque to shear the head, then no matter what interface the bolt has, it wouldn't be coming free anytime soon.

dr.fuzzenstein

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I've never had any more issue with torx then any other fastener types TBH.

I'd say its more down to not using the correct size or poor quality tools. The ones in the wheel arch liners like the OP mentions(VW I presume?) are prone to getting lots of dirt etc into them meaning that the tool doesn't sit in the full way, making rounding much more likely.

+1
I've never had any issues with Torx and I use cheap tools all the way.
But the amount of Philips heads that have crapped out on me could fill a football stadium to the brim.

piston

Anyone who likes these things has clearly never tried to remove the inner driveshafts from a 30 year old Golf.:mad:

lifer_sean

piston wrote: »

Anyone who likes these things has clearly never tried to remove the inner driveshafts from a 30 year old Golf.:mad:

They are not Torx, they are 12-splined heads (don't know if they have a name).

For those, need to clean out the head with a screwdriver first, and then tap the key in as far as possible with a hammer.

CJhaughey

lifer_sean wrote: »

They are not Torx, they are 12-splined heads (don't know if they have a name).

I think they are XZN socket head.

dgt

Torx? Love em or leave them...

Not fully gone on them myself (some arsewipe glued the threads on my coilpack on and I rounded 2 bolts) as I've broken a few bits (gearbox mount on a 406 anyone?) but they have their uses. Much rather a rounded torx than a rounded phillips.

Ribe FTW

Turbulent Bill

As someone who specifies fastener types for manufacturing (though not for cars), Torx are the business. Little or no camming out, great for specifying torque, small driver size etc.

One thing to be careful of is that the drivers for smaller sizes (T8 and below) only vary in size slightly, but it's essential to use the correct size driver for any Torx screw, can be hard to tell by eye which is the correct size.

They're much less likely to round-out by design, though the quality of any screw and its application might make it difficult to remove.

Seth Brundle

@kona - you're meant to turn them anticlockwise to unscrew

piston

lifer_sean wrote: »

They are not Torx, they are 12-splined heads (don't know if they have a name).

For those, need to clean out the head with a screwdriver first, and then tap the key in as far as possible with a hammer.

I don't know their proper name but I do have a few names for them that you won't find in the Draper catalogue.

Even the Haynes manual for the MK1 Golf says these splines are not up to the torque required for the application.