Life's Lessons

Poulgorm

I have been driving cars for the last 30 years, with very high annual mileage. I have bought a new car every 2 to 3 years. All cars serviced by main dealers at the recommended intervals.

What this has taught me is as follows:

1. Your best chance of a trouble free 100,000 miles in a car, buy a petrol engined Honda or Toyota. European cars are not near as durable. I have no experience of Korean cars.
2. The more high tech the engine/transmission/electronics and suspension of a car is, the more you will spend on very expensive repairs
3. Diesels are lovely to drive, but get rid of them before 60,000 miles
4. Be wary of the new breed of turbo charged petrol engines which are creeping into VAG and Ford cars: below is a direct quote from Honest John's website concerning the new Ford turbo charged 1 litre engine:

"The engine has a water-cooled exhaust manifold and turbo housing built into the cylinder head. This acts as a heat exchanger to speed warm up of the engine from cold. And keeps the turbo at a sensible 1,100 degrees centigrade while it’s spinning at its maximum speed of 248,000 rpm. (Yes, 248,000 rpm.)"

You would want to mad to buy it. Or else buy it and sell it on before the guarantee expires.

Tigger

As a lifelong second hand car buyer I thank you and ask if you could get leather from now on

BrianD3

Poulgorm wrote: »

I have been driving cars for the last 30 years, with very high annual mileage. I have bought a new car every 2 to 3 years. All cars serviced by main dealers at the recommended intervals.

What this has taught me is as follows:

1. Your best chance of a trouble free 100,000 miles in a car, buy a petrol engined Honda or Toyota.

That may have been and probably was the case in the past. But now? ADAC breakdown stats which were dominated by Japanese makes for over 20 years now suggest that many European makes are just as reliable if not more so. Check out the relatively poor reliability of the Honda Civic (untere mittelklasse) and Honda Jazz (kleinwagen) at the below link
http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/unfall-schaeden-und-panne/pannenstatistik/

Also, the likes of Honda and Toyota are now lagging behind the best when it comes to warranty. A 3 year, 100k km warranty is nothing to shout about these days. IIRC Mitsubishi was the first to offer this warranty in the Irish market at a time when European makers were giving a miserable 1 year warranty.

2. The more high tech the engine/transmission/electronics and suspension of a car is, the more you will spend on very expensive repairs
3. Diesels are lovely to drive, but get rid of them before 60,000 miles
4. Be wary of the new breed of turbo charged petrol engines which are creeping into VAG and Ford cars: below is a direct quote from Honest John's website concerning the new Ford turbo charged 1 litre engine:

"The engine has a water-cooled exhaust manifold and turbo housing built into the cylinder head. This acts as a heat exchanger to speed warm up of the engine from cold. And keeps the turbo at a sensible 1,100 degrees centigrade while it’s spinning at its maximum speed of 248,000 rpm. (Yes, 248,000 rpm.)"

You would want to mad to buy it. Or else buy it and sell it on before the guarantee expires.

There is potential for expensive repairs particularly if a car is not serviced well (eg incorrect oil grade being used, even main dealers can be sloppy when it come to this) However in general I think that cars are much more reliable than they used to be. Even relatively unreliable modern cars like the Honda Civic are still pretty reliable and trouble free compared to cars of the past.

The Japanese manufacturers have often been ultra conservative when it came to adopting "new fangled" technology. Eg Toyota persisted with a crude RWD setup for its Starlet supermini as late as 1984, decades after Citroen/Renault/BMC/Fiat had shown the advantages of FWD in a small car. Should we stifle progress because of fears about "high technology" resulting in potential unreliability.

colm_mcm

To be fair, Ford persisted with RWD on the Sierra till 1993 or so.

I wouldn't be keen on small highly stressed turbo petrols (this is the future) over traditional NA engines.

2ndcoming

Poulgorm wrote: »

3. Diesels are lovely to drive, but get rid of them before 60,000 miles

Why? An anyway looked after VW group or Merc diesel will keep going up to at least 300,000 miles if you want, and probably right up to 500, why get rid after 60k?

biko

My 3 options when buying cars after many years of motoring.

1. Buy new, stay new
Sell on after 2/3years (this is if you don't mind depreciation...) and get a new car. As long as you stay within warranty all repairs are paid for, and you always have that new car smell.

2. Buy new, drive forever
As long as you look after it, it will look after you.

3. Buy old, stay old.
Cheap and as long as you do repairs/services yourself you can get a fair few years motoring even out of a pretty crappy car. Then scrap and get another banger.

3 is my favourite since I'm interested in cars, not just getting from A to B.

Atomic Pineapple

Poulgorm wrote: »

3. Diesels are lovely to drive, but get rid of them before 60,000 miles

Barely broke in at that stage!

Tea 1000

BrianD3 wrote: »

The Japanese manufacturers have often been ultra conservative when it came to adopting "new fangled" technology. Eg Toyota persisted with a crude RWD setup for its Starlet supermini as late as 1984, decades after Citroen/Renault/BMC/Fiat had shown the advantages of FWD in a small car. Should we stifle progress because of fears about "high technology" resulting in potential unreliability.

The flip side of that is Honda with their V-Tec engines, granted Fiat may have been first with variable valve timing, but Honda certainly made it main stream, and the most reliable engines in the world ever built are V-Tec units. It may well be true that this is over 10 years ago, no car is as reliable these days as late 90's N/A petrols or N/A diesels.

dgt

Poulgorm wrote: »

I have been driving cars for the last 30 years, with very high annual mileage. I have bought a new car every 2 to 3 years. All cars serviced by main dealers at the recommended intervals.

Well, do enlighten us all...

Poulgorm wrote: »

1. Your best chance of a trouble free 100,000 miles in a car, buy a petrol engined Honda or Toyota. European cars are not near as durable. I have no

Friday has come early hasn't it? :rolleyes:

My old Fiesta 1.2 had 172k miles when I sold it on (as proven by some receipts from the past). Most of our Fiats, yes FIATS, have well over 100k miles, one has 196k miles another has about 350k miles. Petrol Mercs here have 130k miles and 161k miles. My E34 has 148k miles. Don't do the mileage? Nonsense :rolleyes:

Tell me, do toyboata still do recalls? Still charge you through the nose for parts? Still have reliability issues? Still made of tin and rust? And what about the famous VVT-i engine with the piston ring problem? What was it again, 60k miles before excessive oil consumption begins? I know many people that had Avensii with engine problems, both petrol and diesel, heads cracking, rings gone, oil pumps whipped.

I couldn't give worse, unresearched advice if I tried

Poulgorm wrote: »

2. The more high tech the engine/transmission/electronics and suspension of a car is, the more you will spend on very expensive repairs

Nothing wrong with a decent ZF box now is there? My computerised 4HP22 still works, a 23 year old effort. Granted if it did go majorly wrong it would be a financial disaster.

Poulgorm wrote: »

3. Diesels are lovely to drive, but get rid of them before 60,000 miles

Now I really must be hearing things!!! 60k miles, so whys that? Tell me why I often see taxis pushing out over 500k miles, why would they bother changing? Is this to do with toygoatas and cylinder heads... :pac:

Poulgorm wrote: »

4. Be wary of the new breed of turbo charged petrol engines which are creeping into VAG and Ford cars: below is a direct quote from Honest John's website concerning the new Ford turbo charged 1 litre engine:

"The engine has a water-cooled exhaust manifold and turbo housing built into the cylinder head. This acts as a heat exchanger to speed warm up of the engine from cold. And keeps the turbo at a sensible 1,100 degrees centigrade while it’s spinning at its maximum speed of 248,000 rpm. (Yes, 248,000 rpm.)"

You would want to mad to buy it. Or else buy it and sell it on before the guarantee expires.

Honest John isn't so honest at times :pac: Turbos work at anything above 100k rpm, they spin fast anyway...

Lets see this point again:

Poulgorm wrote: »

I have been driving cars for the last 30 years

Doesn't guarantee great experience with motors in general. Look at Jeremy Clarkson, how long has he been driving? Does he know how an engine works, basic maintainance?

Voodoomelon

Poulgorm wrote: »

I have been driving cars for the last 30 years, with very high annual mileage. I have bought a new car every 2 to 3 years. All cars serviced by main dealers at the recommended intervals.

What this has taught me is as follows:

1. Your best chance of a trouble free 100,000 miles in a car, buy a petrol engined Honda or Toyota. European cars are not near as durable. I have no experience of Korean cars.
2. The more high tech the engine/transmission/electronics and suspension of a car is, the more you will spend on very expensive repairs
3. Diesels are lovely to drive, but get rid of them before 60,000 miles
4. Be wary of the new breed of turbo charged petrol engines which are creeping into VAG and Ford cars: below is a direct quote from Honest John's website concerning the new Ford turbo charged 1 litre engine:

"The engine has a water-cooled exhaust manifold and turbo housing built into the cylinder head. This acts as a heat exchanger to speed warm up of the engine from cold. And keeps the turbo at a sensible 1,100 degrees centigrade while it’s spinning at its maximum speed of 248,000 rpm. (Yes, 248,000 rpm.)"

You would want to mad to buy it. Or else buy it and sell it on before the guarantee expires.

I don't mean to be an arse, but is that the best you can give us after 30 years of driving? Looks like a big dollop of generalising to me.

Tigger

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I don't mean to be an arse, but is that the best you can give us after 30 years of driving? Looks like a big dollop of generalising to me.

please don't upset the 1st owner of my future manual turbo diesel with 60,000 dealer verified miles and leather interior

scamalert

Poulgorm wrote: »

I have been driving cars for the last 30 years, with very high annual mileage. I have bought a new car every 2 to 3 years. All cars serviced by main dealers at the recommended intervals.

What this has taught me is as follows:

1. Your best chance of a trouble free 100,000 miles in a car, buy a petrol engined Honda or Toyota. European cars are not near as durable. I have .

if you can afford a new car every two to three years theres not even a point of servicing a car srly as mentioned the less wires hydraulics and other toys in the car the longer it will last,look at old corollas,civics,fords those cars were meant to be driven forever,now its impossible to put a hand inside engine bay not to speak do any work without dismantling half of the car and connecting to some fancy computer to decipher the error codes and what failed.:cool:

In fairness to the OP, cheers for sharing your thoughts with us
I have only 13 years driving experience and have found ole German stuff quite fine but also old Jap stuff has been perfect too.

Given that you have bought a new car every 2 to 3 years for the 30 years you've been driving is it fair to say you have no experience of digging out a gem of an ole yoke and running it, finding it nice and reliable ? Or finding it to be a heap of sh1t :pac:

Chris_Heilong

Yeah things got bad for the Japanese giants when they started outsourcing(well relocating their factories to india and the UK) I think quality has suffered because of it, but they are trying to be the greenest cars on the planet, not that its a good thing either.

Jimbob 83

Anyone who buys a car that isn't atleast 3 years old wants their head checked tbh

Jimbob 83

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Anyone who buys a car that isn't atleast 3 years old wants their head checked tbh

If you have lots of cash to splash why not, some folks love having a new car, fair play to them

AltAccount

Interesting opinions, but certainly not something that required 30 years and ownership of (only) 10-15 cars. You could have learned the same info for the priceof a pint from your local barstool mechanic. He probably would have had an opinion on Korean cars too...

TwoShedsJackson

RoverJames wrote: »

If you have lots of cash to splash why not, some folks love having a new car, fair play to them

That's a big enough if, OP did you buy all these on finance? 'Never take out a loan for something that's only going to lose value' as my old Pa used to say to me.

piston

1. Your best chance of a trouble free 100,000 miles in a car, buy a petrol engined Honda or Toyota. European cars are not near as durable. I have no experience of Korean cars. I've put almost a further 100,000 miles on my €360 Peugeot 205 now and have replaced one thermostat and a few suspension bushings. Hardly an bad advertisement for the non-durable European car.
2. The more high tech the engine/transmission/electronics and suspension of a car is, the more you will spend on very expensive repairs Possibly true, but not a guarantee
3. Diesels are lovely to drive, but get rid of them before 60,000 miles Over 200,000 on my MkII Golf Diesel and it doesn't even burn oil, how much more durable do you want?
4. Be wary of the new breed of turbo charged petrol engines which are creeping into VAG and Ford cars: below is a direct quote from Honest John's website concerning the new Ford turbo charged 1 litre engine:

"The engine has a water-cooled exhaust manifold and turbo housing built into the cylinder head. This acts as a heat exchanger to speed warm up of the engine from cold. And keeps the turbo at a sensible 1,100 degrees centigrade while it’s spinning at its maximum speed of 248,000 rpm. (Yes, 248,000 rpm.)"

I'm sure Ford and VW do extensive reliability tests on these things as I'm sure they've learned the BMC lesson of letting customers do the development work. The most likely issue will be Paddy and his hatred of servicing anything and they will get a bad reputation whereas car buyers elsewhere will look after them correctly, using the correct spec oil, etc and have no issues.

You would want to mad to buy it. Or else buy it and sell it on before the guarantee expires. Yes indeed. I'd be mad to buy it new when there are nice people who are prepared to suffer the depreciation for me

Nonoperational

You can't put a formula on buying cars. Depends on too many factors.

Jimbob 83

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Anyone who buys a car that isn't atleast 3 years old wants their head checked tbh

Silly comment. where would the 3 year old cars you buy come from if people didnt buy new? There is nothing stupid about buying a new car if you can afford to and by afford I mean buy for cash or be able to afford loan repayments.

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

That's a big enough if, OP did you buy all these on finance? 'Never take out a loan for something that's only going to lose value' as my old Pa used to say to me.

My car isn't new but I still have a loan, why should I have to settle for something older, less comfortable, more wear and tear etc etc etc just because I dont want to get a loan.

Btw I could have bought it all for cash but tying up lots of savings in a car is stupid in my opinion when you can pay it off out of your wages every month. I'd rather have my savings and the car I want.

franksm

Interesting thread, but I am not sure about the diesel/60,000 miles comment.

One of the best cars I have owned was a 6 year old Vauxhall Omega with the 2.5TDS diesel engine. This is a 6-cylinder BMW unit. The thing was as smooth as silk and very powerful despite its 120,000 miles. One of the nicest engines I have ever had connected to my foot and the car was great as well - lots of electrical toys, and they all worked.

Tea 1000

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Anyone who buys a car that isn't atleast 3 years old wants their head checked tbh

What a load of cock.

Tea 1000

piston wrote: »

3. Diesels are lovely to drive, but get rid of them before 60,000 miles Over 200,000 on my MkII Golf Diesel and it doesn't even burn oil, how much more durable do you want?

In fairness to him, he did mention that diesels are lovely to drive, which while I may disagree somewhat, I think he wasn't talking about a 1.6 N/A diesel with what, 50bhp? I bet the new 1.6 TDI Golf won't last near as long as your Mk 2 though.

GTDolanator

franksm wrote: »

Interesting thread, but I am not sure about the diesel/60,000 miles comment.

One of the best cars I have owned was a 6 year old Vauxhall Omega with the 2.5TDS diesel engine. This is a 6-cylinder BMW unit. The thing was as smooth as silk and very powerful despite its 120,000 miles. One of the nicest engines I have ever had connected to my foot and the car was great as well - lots of electrical toys, and they all worked.

ill back this up,my uncle has one approx 250k on the clock and i have my eye on it,only had the bouncy bits done and shes as smooth as silk

Big Nasty

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Anyone who buys a car that isn't atleast 3 years old wants their head checked tbh

There would be no good value used cars to buy without someone buying them new in the first place. I've never bought a new car, newest was four years old but if I had the spare cash I would in a heartbeat.

Cork boy 55

@OP

Can you list all the cars you have brought

Poulgorm

This seems to confirm the accuracy of what I am saying:

Toyota Corolla 'Most Reliable' Older Family Car

Honest John
Wed, 30 May 2012

In an analysis of its warranty claims records for cars three to five years old, Warranty Direct has found that the 2001 - 2007 Toyota Corolla is the most reliable slightly older family car.

The analysis – based on around 30,000 of Warranty Direct’s policies – shows that the UK-built Corolla suffers the fewest brakedowns of just 7% each year on avearage.

At the other end of the scale, the 2002 - 2012 Renault Espace and Mercedes R-Class from 2006 are the most likely to leave you stranded, with three quarters of all owners suffering significant garage bills.

The latest Warranty Direct study analysed three to five-year-old cars from the small family, family and MPV categories.

Honda’s Civic from 2006 and 2002 - 2008 Accord are also among the most dependable family vehicles, both with claim rates of 10% but separated by the Accord’s more costly maintenance bills.

Top 10 most reliable family-sized cars:

Toyota Corolla (01 - 07)

Honda Civic (06 - )

Honda Accord (02 - 08)

Mazda 3 (04 - 09)

Toyota Auris (07 - )

Toyota Prius (03 - 09)

Ford C-Max (07 - )

Ford Mondeo (07 - )

Nissan Qashqai (07 - )

Peugeot 308 (07 - )

Used car buyers looking for a reliable family vehicle should also consider the Mazda 3 and another UK-built car, the Toyota Auris from 2007, which succeeded the Toyota Corolla.

The Toyota Prius, Ford C-Max, Ford Mondeo, Nissan Qashqai and Peugeot 308 make up the rest of the top ten.

Warranty Direct managing director, Duncan McClure Fisher, said: “Most cars will go wrong at some stage but there’s nothing worse than the family’s excitement at setting off on holiday being destroyed by a morning spent on the hard shoulder.

“And, as well as the inconvenience to your holiday, a breakdown can also put a serious dent in your wallet.”

Electrical issues and axle and suspension troubles cause the majority of claims, with the latter often a result of a collision with a pothole or other road defect.

The only European manufacturer to make Warranty Direct’s top 10 rundown is Peugeot, with its 308 – the majority hail from Japan. In contrast, no Asian manufacturers feature in the 10 least reliable vehicles.

Meanwhile, the Peugeot 807 attracted the largest individual bill with a claim for repairs totaling nearly £5,000.

10 least reliable family-sized cars

Renault Espace (02 - )

Mercedes R-Class (06 - )

Vauxhall Vectra (02 - 09)

Renault Grand Scenic/Scenic (04 - 09)

Renault Megane (02 - 09)

Skoda Superb (02 - 08)

Peugeot 807 (02 - )

Volkswagen Passat (05 - )

Peugeot 407 (04 - )

Volkswagen Touran (03 - )

There are some surprises amoung the ten 'least reliable' cars, including the Skoda Superb and VW Touran, though the inclusion of the 2005-2011 VW Passat confirms our own feedback.

Mycroft H

Poulgorm wrote: »

This seems to confirm the accuracy of what I am saying:

Toyota Corolla 'Most Reliable' Older Family Car

Honest John
Wed, 30 May 2012

In an analysis of its warranty claims records for cars three to five years old, Warranty Direct has found that the 2001 - 2007 Toyota Corolla is the most reliable slightly older family car.

The analysis – based on around 30,000 of Warranty Direct’s policies – shows that the UK-built Corolla suffers the fewest brakedowns of just 7% each year on avearage.

At the other end of the scale, the 2002 - 2012 Renault Espace and Mercedes R-Class from 2006 are the most likely to leave you stranded, with three quarters of all owners suffering significant garage bills.

The latest Warranty Direct study analysed three to five-year-old cars from the small family, family and MPV categories.

Honda’s Civic from 2006 and 2002 - 2008 Accord are also among the most dependable family vehicles, both with claim rates of 10% but separated by the Accord’s more costly maintenance bills.

Top 10 most reliable family-sized cars:

Toyota Corolla (01 - 07)

Honda Civic (06 - )

Honda Accord (02 - 08)

Mazda 3 (04 - 09)

Toyota Auris (07 - )

Toyota Prius (03 - 09)

Ford C-Max (07 - )

Ford Mondeo (07 - )

Nissan Qashqai (07 - )

Peugeot 308 (07 - )

Used car buyers looking for a reliable family vehicle should also consider the Mazda 3 and another UK-built car, the Toyota Auris from 2007, which succeeded the Toyota Corolla.

The Toyota Prius, Ford C-Max, Ford Mondeo, Nissan Qashqai and Peugeot 308 make up the rest of the top ten.

Warranty Direct managing director, Duncan McClure Fisher, said: “Most cars will go wrong at some stage but there’s nothing worse than the family’s excitement at setting off on holiday being destroyed by a morning spent on the hard shoulder.

“And, as well as the inconvenience to your holiday, a breakdown can also put a serious dent in your wallet.”

Electrical issues and axle and suspension troubles cause the majority of claims, with the latter often a result of a collision with a pothole or other road defect.

The only European manufacturer to make Warranty Direct’s top 10 rundown is Peugeot, with its 308 – the majority hail from Japan. In contrast, no Asian manufacturers feature in the 10 least reliable vehicles.

Meanwhile, the Peugeot 807 attracted the largest individual bill with a claim for repairs totaling nearly £5,000.

10 least reliable family-sized cars

Renault Espace (02 - )

Mercedes R-Class (06 - )

Vauxhall Vectra (02 - 09)

Renault Grand Scenic/Scenic (04 - 09)

Renault Megane (02 - 09)

Skoda Superb (02 - 08)

Peugeot 807 (02 - )

Volkswagen Passat (05 - )

Peugeot 407 (04 - )

Volkswagen Touran (03 - )

There are some surprises amoung the ten 'least reliable' cars, including the Skoda Superb and VW Touran, though the inclusion of the 2005-2011 VW Passat confirms our own feedback.

The devil can cite scripture for his own purpose

dgt

Poulgorm wrote: »

Toyota Corolla 'Most Reliable' Older Family Car

One word springs up everytime I hear that:
Recall

Recall

Recall

Recall

Recall

Recall

I feel I don't need to go on, people lost their lives in these death traps of cars

Poulgorm

BX 19 wrote: »

The devil can cite scripture for his own purpose

No doubt. But the above list was based on actual claims made - presumably hard facts.

Anyway, it confirms my own experience. I apologise to all the European car dealers out there.

AltAccount

Poulgorm wrote: »

1. Your best chance of a trouble free 100,000 miles in a car, buy a petrol engined Honda or Toyota. European cars are not near as durable. I have no experience of Korean cars.

But according to Honest John, Peugeot make one of the top ten most reliable cars...

Poulgorm wrote: »

2. The more high tech the engine/transmission/electronics and suspension of a car is, the more you will spend on very expensive repairs

In the 10 least reliable cars, according to Honest John, most of them seem to be pretty standard cars, not at all at the high tech end of things...

Poulgorm wrote: »

3. Diesels are lovely to drive, but get rid of them before 60,000 miles

Unfortunately, I haven't seen Honest John's opinion of diesel reliability over higher mileages, so I can't comment.

Poulgorm wrote: »

4. Be wary of the new breed of turbo charged petrol engines which are creeping into VAG and Ford cars: below is a direct quote from Honest John's website concerning the new Ford turbo charged 1 litre engine:

Hopefully Ford don't start putting this technology into their Mondeo or C-Max, I've heard they're very reliable.

Mycroft H

Poulgorm wrote: »

No doubt. But the above list was based on actual claims made - presumably hard facts.

Anyway, it confirms my own experience. I apologise to all the European car dealers out there.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/jaguar-tops-jd-power-satisfaction-survey

Well here is another survey. The JD Power Satisfaction survey which is going a rather long time. I remember the survey been done in the Top Gear Mag as far back as 2003.

The JD Power/What Car? survey researched 18,000 owners, who rated their cars’ performance, design and comfort to quality, reliability, cost of ownership, economy and dealer service satisfaction after owning them for a minimum of two years.
Top 10 car makers

• 1 Jaguar
• 2= Lexus
• 2= Skoda
• 4 Honda
• 5 Mercedes Benz
• 6 Toyota
• 7 Audi
• 8 Volkswagen
• 9 Volvo
• 10= BMW
• 10= Nissan

Top 10 cars

• 1 Kia Sportage
• 2 Jaguar XF
• 3 Toyota Prius
• 4 Skoda Superb
• 5 Mercedes Benz E-Class
• 6 Toyota IQ
• 7 Honda Jazz
• 8 Volkswagen Passat CC
• 9= Lexus IS
• 9= Toyota Avensis

In the top ten marques there was 6 European manufactures. Now what did you say about european manufactures?


As I said, there are plenty of surveys to suit every argument.

Poulgorm

BX 19 wrote: »

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motoring/jaguar-tops-jd-power-satisfaction-survey

Well here is another survey. The JD Power Satisfaction survey which is going a rather long time. I remember the survey been done in the Top Gear Mag as far back as 2003.

In the top ten marques there was 6 European manufactures. Now what did you say about european manufactures?

As I said, there are plenty of surveys to suit every argument.

But that is just a survey of people's opinions. Not the same thing at all.

The Warranty Direct thing is not a survey - it is based based on hard facts - the number and size of warranty claims, in cars 3 to 5 years old.

Do you get the difference ?

AltAccount

Poulgorm wrote: »

But that is just a survey of people's opinions. Not the same thing at all.

The Warranty Direct thing is not a survey - it is based based on hard facts - the number and size of warranty claims, in cars 3 to 5 years old.

Do you get the difference ?

But wasn't your opening post just a person's opinion rather than based on cold hard facts?

Are you saying there's no validity to the opinions of anyone on boards unless they're backed up by verifiable statistics?



It's gonna get mighty quiet around here...

Poulgorm

AltAccount wrote: »

But wasn't your opening post just a person's opinion rather than based on cold hard facts?

Are you saying there's no validity to the opinions of anyone on boards unless they're backed up by verifiable statistics?

Every a**hole is entitled to an opinion (including myself!).

My original post referred to my experience, based on driving a variety of Japanese and European cars, over the years.

The Warranty Direct information is based on cold, hard facts. It confirms that my opinion, based on my experience, seems to be correct.

The Japs seem to make more reliable, durable cars. They might not be the sexiest or most high-tech - but for a lot of people, they are all the better for that.

Zubeneschamali

Poulgorm wrote: »

The Japs seem to make more reliable, durable cars.

Making something like the Auris durable is just prolonging the agony for the poor sap who bought it.

Eric Cartman

Poulgorm wrote: »

The Japs seem to make more reliable, durable cars. They might not be the sexiest or most high-tech

thats exactley it. If you take any technology , wait till its 10 years old then fix all the problems ofcourse youll end up with something reliable.

If your buying a car in Ireland tomorrow and want the absolute latest and greatest, go visit a BMW garage, but be prepared to face the fact that some of those fancy electronic toys and extras may break in the near future.

if you want something really reliable but with the featureset of a 90s bavarian offering then go to a toyota garage.