Driving on the Hard Shoulder

mick4_2000

OK this evening on the way home as usual traffic on the N21 going into Adare for a few miles. I know a road goes around Adare (I have seen cars taking the road before) so i followed someone from a bit before the turn i put on my indicator went up to the cross and turned left where 3 Guards were pulling.

My question is it against the ROTR? I'm now getting 2 points and 80 euro for Dangerous/Careless driving.

Where if you look at driving in the hard shoulder on a motorway has 1 point and a fine.

If it is against the law I don't have an issue but I can't find it anywhere.

CiniO

mick4_2000 wrote: »

OK this evening on the way home as usual traffic on the N21 going into Adare for a few miles. I know a road goes around Adare (I have seen cars taking the road before) so i followed someone from a bit before the turn i put on my indicator went up to the cross and turned left where 3 Guards were pulling.

My question is it against the ROTR? I'm now getting 2 points and 80 euro for Dangerous/Careless driving.

Where if you look at driving in the hard shoulder on a motorway has 1 point and a fine.

If it is against the law I don't have an issue but I can't find it anywhere.

It's quite hard to understand your description.
I guess there was a queue of cars moving slowly on the main road, and you moved to hard shoulder, passed few of them and eventually turned left...
Is that correct?
If so, IMHO it was against the ROTR. Not because you were driving on hard shoulder, but because you overtook other vehicles on their left side.

mick4_2000

CiniO wrote: »

It's quite hard to understand your description.
I guess there was a queue of cars moving slowly on the main road, and you moved to hard shoulder, passed few of them and eventually turned left...
Is that correct?
If so, IMHO it was against the ROTR. Not because you were driving on hard shoulder, but because you overtook other vehicles on their left side.

Yes thats exactly what i did

cup of tea

I know exactly the stretch your talkingg about. A guard on a motorbike has been there a few times catching people shooting up the side, it's like shooting rats in a barell because loads of people do it. Myself and a few people I know have stopped doing it since the emergence of this guard. Edging back into traffic when spotting the guard in the horizon .It's technically only meant for emergency situations e.g breakdown.

mick4_2000

cup of tea wrote: »

I know exactly the stretch your talkingg about. A guard on a motorbike has been there a few times catching people shooting up the side, it's like shooting rats in a barell because loads of people do it. Myself and a few people I know have stopped doing it since the emergence of this guard. Edging back into traffic when spotting the guard in the horizon .It's technically only meant for emergency situations e.g breakdown.

Yea motorbike cop and a squad car. You would think it would be relieving the traffic in Adare rather than causing more traffic. But must increse the numbers for the May bank holiday weekend.

Its annoying that i will get 2 points and the same offence on a motorway is only 1

Jimbob 83

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kconway/2066696504/

CiniO

mick4_2000 wrote: »

Yea motorbike cop and a squad car. You would think it would be relieving the traffic in Adare rather than causing more traffic. But must increse the numbers for the May bank holiday weekend.

Its annoying that i will get 2 points and the same offence on a motorway is only 1

Who told you, that you are going to get 2 penalty points? Were you stopped by those guard?

Beside - what you are talking here on motorway is driving on motorway hard shoulder.
You can't be penalised for driving on hard shoulder on N road, as it's not an offence. You can only be penalised for overtaking on the left. Which is completely different offence to what you are saying about.

MugMugs

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kconway/2066696504/

I met him on the M50 last week and nearly crashed my car after spitting my.coffee out. I love it!



OP, Are you asking if you were wrong for undertaking traffic in the hard shoulder?

-Corkie-

MugMugs wrote: »

I met him on the M50 last week and nearly crashed my car after spitting my.coffee out. I love it! QUOTE]

All I see are the back doors of a truck...

MugMugs

-Corkie- wrote: »

MugMugs wrote: »

I met him on the M50 last week and nearly crashed my car after spitting my.coffee out. I love it!

All I see are the back doors of a truck...

I'd know the truck a mile off.

"only gimps pass on the left" or something along the lines. Not the wittiest of statements but not exactly what you're expecting at 6am either.

-Corkie-

MugMugs wrote: »

-Corkie- wrote: »

I'd know the truck a mile off.

"only gimps pass on the left" or something along the lines. Not the wittiest of statements but not exactly what you're expecting at 6am either.

Oh rite I know the guy that owns it..

MugMugs

Think it was pearl transport cork or something like that?

Bohrio

CiniO wrote: »

Who told you, that you are going to get 2 penalty points? Were you stopped by those guard?

Beside - what you are talking here on motorway is driving on motorway hard shoulder.
You can't be penalised for driving on hard shoulder on N road, as it's not an offence. You can only be penalised for overtaking on the left. Which is completely different offence to what you are saying about.

Afaik it is only considered hard shoulder if there is a yellow intermittent line... even then you cannot drive on the hardshoulder neither use it to overtake. In fact if you were approaching an intersection it wouldnt be considered a hardshoulder anymore.

from the ROTR

A single broken yellow line along the side of the road

This road contains a hard shoulder, which is normally only for pedestrians and cyclists. If a driver wants to allow a vehicle behind them to overtake, they may pull in to the hard shoulder briefly as long as no pedestrians or cyclists are already using it and no junctions or entrances are nearby. Different rules exist for hard shoulders on motorways. See Motorways section for details.

Pkiernan

mick4_2000 wrote: »

OK this evening on the way home as usual traffic on the N21 going into Adare for a few miles. I know a road goes around Adare (I have seen cars taking the road before) so i followed someone from a bit before the turn i put on my indicator went up to the cross and turned left where 3 Guards were pulling.

My question is it against the ROTR? I'm now getting 2 points and 80 euro for Dangerous/Careless driving.

Where if you look at driving in the hard shoulder on a motorway has 1 point and a fine.

If it is against the law I don't have an issue but I can't find it anywhere.

Dangerous driving is not dealt with by a fine and 2 points.
Careless driving is a 5 point event.

Find out what exactly you have been ticketed for.

Pkiernan

Have you been ticketed for no. 7 on this list?

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

fasttalkerchat

CiniO wrote: »

Who told you, that you are going to get 2 penalty points? Were you stopped by those guard?

Beside - what you are talking here on motorway is driving on motorway hard shoulder.
You can't be penalised for driving on hard shoulder on N road, as it's not an offence. You can only be penalised for overtaking on the left. Which is completely different offence to what you are saying about.

Does it still count as overtaking if the other vehicle is stopped. As far as I know its fine to pass a stationary vehicle on the inside (perhaps not on the hard shoulder)

opti0nal

mick4_2000 wrote: »

If it is against the law I don't have an issue but I can't find it anywhere.

You must drive your car on the road. A hard shoulder is not part of the road. It's not a lane. It's a place for slow moving vehicles to stop to let others pass or for emergencies.

In a city with heavy traffic, you don't pass on the footpath, it's the same in the country with a hard shoulder.

mick4_2000

3 Guards were waiting and pulled everyone turning left. The guy that was giving me a ticket said it was 2 points and €80 fine. Then proceeded to say it was for Careless/Dangerous driving on the lower end of the scale.

d3exile

mick4_2000 wrote: »

3 Guards were waiting and pulled everyone turning left. The guy that was giving me a ticket said it was 2 points and €80 fine. Then proceeded to say it was for Careless/Dangerous driving on the lower end of the scale.

I doubt they were stopping everybody tuning left, but stopping everyone driving on the shoulder. You can pass vehicles on the left when they are stopped or turning right only, but not on a hard shoulder

Hard shoulders are for broken down vehicles to stop and for drivers to pull in to allow faster traffic to pass, they often have pedestrians, animals, cyclists and road debris on them, as such they are not for driving in as it can be dangerous to you and others- unfortunately you will have to sit and wait like the rest of the traffic... You won't have much of a case to contest this in court IMO as people have been killed by motorists using the hard shoulder as a driving lane

CiniO

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Does it still count as overtaking if the other vehicle is stopped. As far as I know its fine to pass a stationary vehicle on the inside (perhaps not on the hard shoulder)

I don't know.
That's very good question.

Bohrio

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Does it still count as overtaking if the other vehicle is stopped. As far as I know its fine to pass a stationary vehicle on the inside (perhaps not on the hard shoulder)

If a vehicle is turning right or traffic is slow you can overtake using the left lane on a dual carriageway or motorway but dont confuse the hardshoulder as an "extra" lane because it isnt.

A car stopped in the middle of the road is an obstacle so the hardshoulder can be used to avoid it. If the car is just part of a longer queue then you can't (single lane roads).

see below

You may overtake on the left when

You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

You must not overtake when

You are at or near a pelican crossing, zebra crossing or at pedestrian signals.
A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.
You are approaching a junction.
You are on the approach to a corner, bend, dip in the road, hump-back bridge, brow of a hill or on a narrow road.
You are in the left-hand lane of a dual carriageway or motorway when traffic is moving at normal speed.


I think the main problem here is that people tend to think of the hardshoulder as a secondary lane that can be used at their convenience... many times i have seen people approach a juncture and join the new road moving straight into the hardshoulder without caring about traffic already in that road. For example look at the video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY6LO9r_S0Q

It is all because of people lack of pacience, is similar to the situation where cars approach a crossroad, the street splits in two near the traffic light, left lane to go straight or left and right lane to go right, but there is a long queue to go straight so those who want to make a right turn cant wait to get to the point where lanes split so they decide to overtake the long queue eventhough it is not legal so they can jump ahead into the right turn lane... i have a video somewhere i think

Bohrio

here found it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAXoRYNF4Uo

Jimdagym

opti0nal wrote: »

You must drive your car on the road. A hard shoulder is not part of the road. It's not a lane. It's a place for slow moving vehicles to stop to let others pass or for emergencies.

In a city with heavy traffic, you don't pass on the footpath, it's the same in the country with a hard shoulder.

No its not.

Vikings

I'd hazard a guess you will get a ticket for driving without reasonable consideration.

Any number of minor road traffic offences would fall under that category so it doesn't have to be specific to what you did. Its Section 52 of the Road Traffic Act.

Like has been said by someone before me it is a lack of patience, the same way that people cross the hatch markings entering/exiting a motorway. No excuse for it really.

Whats worse is that the person waiting in the queue of traffic who tries to take his turn is impeded by people coming through the hard shoulder which results in worse traffic, not better.

CiniO

Jimdagym wrote: »

No its not.

Why not?

CiniO

Bohrio wrote: »

You may overtake on the left when

You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

This would suggest, it's actually allright to do what OP described.
As you may overtake on left when you signalled that you intend to turn left.

yer man!

Jimdagym wrote: »

No its not.

Yes it is actually.

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-signs-road-markings/road-markings.html

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

This would suggest, it's actually allright to do what OP described.
As you may overtake on left when you signalled that you intend to turn left.

I have a feeling that means that you can pass other cars if you have signalled left and are on a slip road (ie the exit ramp off a motorway where the traffic in the main lanes is stationary/slow moving), and its just badly worded, but I could be wrong. AFAIK its not okay to turn a hard shoulder into a temporary exit slip road to suit yourself.

S28382

There is a driving instructor in kilkenny that frequently uses the hard shoulder on the n10 to teach L drivers how to pull of in the car, sometimes you would see em drive for a fair bit on the hard shoulder, i wouldnt fancy learning to drive like that,

Jimdagym

yer man! wrote: »

Yes it is actually.

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-signs-road-markings/road-markings.html

How does that prove me wrong. I said you cannot stop in a hard shoulder to let faster cars pass.

messi1985

i got caught myself doing the exact same thing yesterday around 5 o clock. i do it every Friday cos get caught in traffic for ages and i only live 10 minutes from there.. i apologized to the guard saying i was unaware i couldnt do that and that i live 10 mins down that road and it normally takes 15 to 20 mins to get here from end of dual carriage way.. he said "i accept ur apology but i cant understand how u wouldnt think its dangerous".. ended up with 80e fine and 2 PP.. fupping adare!!

Pataman

I was under the impression that driving in the hard shoulder to let faster vehicles pass on the normal driving lane was made illegal last year.

Bohrio

Y

CiniO wrote: »

This would suggest, it's actually allright to do what OP described.
As you may overtake on left when you signalled that you intend to turn left.

That's valid if you have a lane to do so. The hardshoulder is not a lane, in fact, the discontinuos yellow line on the side of the road should go solid white when approaching an intersection, you can't go over a solid line so this means you will have to go back to the main lane again and then leave the road, which is not very considerate to other drivers either

jsd1004

Bohrio wrote: »

Y

That's valid if you have a lane to do so. The hardshoulder is not a lane, in fact, the discontinuos yellow line on the side of the road should go solid white when approaching an intersection, you can't go over a solid line so this means you will have to go back to the main lane again and then leave the road, which is not very considerate to other drivers either

Its the same at the top of oconnell st opposite the Bank bar. You see people trying to cross a double white line to get to the other lane and holding up other people. A lot of drivers do not understand road markings or disregard them.

Del2005

Jimdagym wrote: »

How does that prove me wrong. I said you cannot stop in a hard shoulder to let faster cars pass.

Of course you can stop on a hard shoulder, that's what they are there for. You can also pull in to let traffic past if driving slowly, but you need to be observant if doing this.

Pataman wrote: »

I was under the impression that driving in the hard shoulder to let faster vehicles pass on the normal driving lane was made illegal last year.

The only road you can't pull onto the hard shoulder is a motorway. As on an motorway it's purely a break down lane, also it's to be kept free to allow emergency services access to incidents.

CiniO

Jimdagym wrote: »

How does that prove me wrong. I said you cannot stop in a hard shoulder to let faster cars pass.

Why would one be not allowed to stop on hard shoulder?
Of course you can stop on hard shoulder.

slimjimmc

Jimdagym wrote: »

How does that prove me wrong. I said you cannot stop in a hard shoulder to let faster cars pass.

Jimdagym, that statement is so so far wrong, it ridiculous.
Unless there is circumstances or signage to the contrary the hard shoulder on any road that's not a motor way can be used as a place to stop for any reason, whether that be to answer the phone, read a book, or let faster cars pass. You are also permitted to briefly drive along the hard shoulder to allow faster traffic pass so as you do it carefully.

Jimdagym

slimjimmc wrote: »

Jimdagym, that statement is so so far wrong, it ridiculous.
Unless there is circumstances or signage to the contrary the hard shoulder on any road that's not a motor way can be used as a place to stop for any reason, whether that be to answer the phone, read a book, or let faster cars pass. You are also permitted to briefly drive along the hard shoulder to allow faster traffic pass so as you do it carefully.

Fair enough. The ROTR says:

If a driver wants to allow a vehicle behind them to overtake, they may pull in to the hard shoulder briefly as long as no pedestrians or cyclists are already using it and no junctions or entrances are nearby

Seems odd to mention that it is OK to dip into the lane slightly to allow cars to overtake if it is an area you can move freely in and out of anyway.
I was always under the impression that it was for emergency stops only, just like the motorway, and to be honest I never really had much cause to stop in one anyway.

aerotuned

hello, ya i was cought doing the same thing on that road at the same place, the guard, ie-robocop as he is know, told me to my face i was being done for driving on the hard shoulder, to which i didnt complain. now there is no offence for driveing on the hard shoulder of a ( n road- n71) and the offence for driveing on a moterway is 1 point and 80 fine, as to where to guard was standing he couldnt even see me driveing on the hard shoulder as they didnt have a clear view of sight on the bend,to which i had pulled in to traffic again only that i have a van and thats what he seen, but today i got a letter stateing im being done for driving without reasonable consideration to which is 2 points and 80 fine, now whats the crap wit that,

irishbucka

i have heard about this robocop lad. appearantly he loves doing truck divers in particular. i have never met him and dont want to either. sounds like a right nob jockey

Bohrio

aerotuned wrote: »

hello, ya i was cought doing the same thing on that road at the same place, the guard, ie-robocop as he is know, told me to my face i was being done for driving on the hard shoulder, to which i didnt complain. now there is no offence for driveing on the hard shoulder of a ( n road- n71) and the offence for driveing on a moterway is 1 point and 80 fine, as to where to guard was standing he couldnt even see me driveing on the hard shoulder as they didnt have a clear view of sight on the bend,to which i had pulled in to traffic again only that i have a van and thats what he seen, but today i got a letter stateing im being done for driving without reasonable consideration to which is 2 points and 80 fine, now whats the crap wit that,

Well i guess now you know, you cant drive on the hardshoulder... if only you wouldve seen this thread before

oh and there is an offence by driving on the hardshoulder on a non motorway road.. basically you cant drive outside the roadway

opti0nal

aerotuned wrote: »

told me to my face i was being done for driving on the hard shoulder, to which i didnt complain. now there is no offence for driveing on the hard shoulder of a ( n road- n71) .... today i got a letter stateing im being done for driving without reasonable consideration to which is 2 points and 80 fine, now whats the crap wit that,

The roadway is marked with a broken yellow line on its left limit. The law requires you to keep to the roadway while driving and you did not. There's no specific offence for driving on a non motorway hard shoulder, so they're using a more general charge.

dr.fuzzenstein

Pataman wrote: »

I was under the impression that driving in the hard shoulder to let faster vehicles pass on the normal driving lane was made illegal last year.

Only on motorways, but a lot of people got it wrong and now think they must not ever pull over to let anyone pass.
As it stands, if you wish to pull into the hard shoulder to let faster traffic behind you pass, you can.

As for the OP
A friend of mine who goes through Adare every day is delighted, he told me a lot of people go onto the hard shoulder just before the village, pretend to turn left and then, surprise surprise, remember they are actually going straight on and then bully their way back in at the front.

CiniO

aerotuned wrote: »

, but today i got a letter stateing im being done for driving without reasonable consideration to which is 2 points and 80 fine, now whats the crap wit that,

The idea behind it is that there isn't any law prohibiting driving on the hard shoulder. So obviously there can't be anything like "driving on hardshoulder" listed on list of fixed penalty offences. (PS we are talking about N and R roads, not motorways).

But if you were using hardshoulder as an extra lane to pass other vehicles waiting in the queue, then surely this is driving without reasonable consideration, and that's what you got fined for. All good.

wonski

It is pretty obvious:
1. You can move on to the hard shoulder to let faster moving traffic go on their way
2. You can't drive in the hard shoulder,even if your plan is to avoid traffic as you turn left at next junction
3. Point 1. does not apply at Motorways!

Simple as that

It is only courtesy of slow moving vehicles - tractors etc to move into the hard shoulder, and they have no obligation whatsoever to do that, they are not required to do so, and regular cars should not go into the hard shoulder at all in my opinion.