Ins and outs and adapting

Graces7

I have always taken the view that dogs should be in the house at night etc.

But things change...

Our elderly collie .. barking is her hobby. Second only to eating. She has grown steadily more and more cranky and especially at night. No visible reason. Just loud and prolonged barking. Sometimes working herself into a real state.

I have increasing health issues and need sleep at night. Age is bringing arthritis more and more painfully also.It was getting desperate indeed. And I was getting even more cranky than the collie. Every night startled awake several times.

We thought re medication.. for her I mean.. But I hate the idea.. That was after I spent hours online on collie forums and learned that this is a breed thing.

So now the dogs sleep in a snug empty wooden shed with a bale of hay. It is tucked away behind the house, warm dry and quiet.

It was either the dogs sleep there or me.. And I did think about that! Anything for an unbroken night..

It has worked fine; the first night I slept ten hours. They get their main feed in there, warm food, and then to sleep. There seems no stress; collie would attack the door if she was stressed and has not done so. Early mornings we are glad to see each other and straight out to run in the fields.

I was telling this to a trader at the local market, and she told ne she has had the same problem. We reckoned that the dogs can hear critters etc near the house and that sets them off. The shed is tucked away and quieter.

So we affirmed each other and that helped.

So all is well for the while.. Adapting seems a key with dogs and cats. Learning to change ways.

Whispered

Isn't it fantastic when you have trouble sleeping then you get a good night. you feel brand new!

Graces7

Whispered wrote: »

Isn't it fantastic when you have trouble sleeping then you get a good night. you feel brand new!

Oh the relief! Cannot tell you! I stuck it all winter too. Getting more and more exhausted.

The cats are funny now as they have free run of the whole house once the dogs are abed. They know now.... Collie hates cats.

When I come back in they are in the kitchen where they dare not stray by day.

Bixy

I wonder if it is a collie thing? My elderly collie starting barking at night when she got to about 14. All she seemed to do during the day was sleep soundly interspersed, but come 4am she would wake the house up barking. At first we thought it was the dawn chorus, but it was like that all winter, then we thought it was elderly confusion, and because she was loosing her eyesight she did not know if it was day or night. Anyway after silently cursing her many time for a broken nights sleep it all came to an end last weekend when, at 15 years old we had to make that last sad trip to the vets. Missing that sound now...

Cherry Blossom

Bixy wrote: »

I wonder if it is a collie thing?

Na, I'd say it's more likely a 'people not taking their dogs to the vet for a full OAP MOT' thing especially if they are seemingly barking at nothing.

Bixy

I don't think I was that neglectful Adrenalinejunkie, as we had been to the vet plenty of times in the previous few months (discussing her barking among other things) before she was PTS last weekend, In fact the Vet had been telling me I would know when the time was right, and I did, but thank you for your supportive comments.

snollup

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Na, I'd say it's more likely a 'people not taking their dogs to the vet for a full OAP MOT' thing especially if they are seemingly barking at nothing.

What a judgemental & unconstructive comment.


@ Bixy, really sorry for your loss.

Sigma Force

Didn't know collies were prone to barking more as they got older?? My collie girl is getting quieter in her old age (13) she's still very sprightly though and so running around during the day means she's usually happy to snuggle up in her bed at night.

If anyone pulls up next door(s) or here all the dogs start barking but other than that it tends to be the middle girl that will start barking before the collie.

As long as your dog is comfortable op and is still getting excercised, which is even more important as collies get older to avoid their joints getting too stiff. The grumpiness could be due to a niggley pain like a touch of arthritis if you haven't already have the vet give her a check over just to see if it's anything medical making her narky. Sometimes if their hearing or sight starts to go that can cause themm to be disorientated.

If you find it hard to give the pooch enough excercise and if there are dog walkers in your area might be worth hiring someone a couple of days a week to take the dog out for a walk sometimes like ourselves dogs don't sleep well if they haven't had enough walks or things to do to tire them out.

Highly recommend stuff called Vet Bed, nothing wrong with some soft hay though because dogs can bury themselves in it but I find vet bed brilliant my collie loves her vet bed I think that's half the reason she loves to go to bed at night, she doesn't even like getting up at night if for whatever reason we're home late and can let them all out again.

But yes dogs can adapt from being outside to in and vice versa, the only thing I'd be careful of is if the temperatures plummet or go really high.
A comfy bed, food, water, lots of human interaction and cuddles plus excercise is what a dog needs whether they are sleeping indoors or out, a lot of people are very critical of people keeping dogs outdoors but that doesn't mean they aren't well looked after.

Blogger50

snollup wrote: »

What a judgemental & unconstructive comment.


@ Bixy, really sorry for your loss.

I have to agree with snollup. Sometimes I think people should pause before engaging their brain. Really AJ you assumed a lot here!

Bixy, hope you're doing okay.

boomerang

I'm pretty certain the comment wasn't aimed at Bixy.

I haven't heard of older collies getting barkier, either. Sometimes with the oldies I think it's because they are beginning to get a bit deaf, or even a bit senile.

Very, very sorry for your loss, Bixy. I lost my collie girl two weeks ago and it is an awful loss for anyone.

Cherry Blossom

This:

boomerang wrote: »

I'm pretty certain the comment wasn't aimed at Bixy.

and this:

boomerang wrote: »

Very, very sorry for your loss, Bixy.

Graces7

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Na, I'd say it's more likely a 'people not taking their dogs to the vet for a full OAP MOT' thing especially if they are seemingly barking at nothing.

Interesting comment Adrenaline Junkie, and revealing. I too hope that it was just one of those knee jerk reactions better left unmade.

Interesting responses in general too. And revealing.

I don';t actually believe in what you whimisically call " OAP MOTs" for myself or the critters. It is clear to any owner when something is really wrong. Nor do I believe in a lot of Western drug based vet /medical care.

Herbal and common sense remedies work well when all else is fine.

Cranberry juice not steroids for incontinence ..

My choice freely made, For all in this house,

As I wrote, I consulted collie experts and was satisifed that this is a breed thing, especially given this lass's history and her very acute hearing. And given that another person nearby has the same issues.

All a vet offered in the past re the barking issue was ACP; one try of that was enough, thank you.Oh or a lethal injection...

Collie is happy in her quieter quarters which is what matters.

Please can we lighten up and enjoy the forum? I have a busy week ahead trading and am in a lot of pain myself just now and come here to relax and share.

Thank you

Cherry Blossom

Graces7 wrote: »

I don';t actually believe in what you whimisically call " OAP MOTs" for myself or the critters. It is clear to any owner when something is really wrong. Nor do I believe in a lot of Western drug based vet /medical care.

Yes, that was my point, except whisky and valium of course, you believe in feeding your dog valium if I remember correctly.

Graces7 wrote: »

All a vet offered in the past re the barking issue was ACP; one try of that was enough, thank you.Oh or a lethal injection...

ACP is no longer used these days, and there are plenty of other vets. Have you looked to see if there is a homoeopathic vet near you rather than taking the advice of people who have never laid eyes on your dog?

boomerang

I don';t actually believe in what you whimisically call " OAP MOTs" for myself or the critters. It is clear to any owner when something is really wrong.

Totally disagree with you there, Graces7. Many of the diseases of old age can't be detected in their early stages without at least a blood work-up by the vet. By the time the dog is showing signs, a lot of irreversable damage has been done.

doctor evil

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

homoeopathic vet near you rather than taking the advice of people who have never laid eyes on your dog?

Homeopathy does not work, water does not have memory. As for buying peace of mind a wishing well may be cheaper.

Cherry Blossom

doctor evil wrote: »

Homeopathy does not work, water does not have memory. As for buying peace of mind a wishing well may be cheaper.

I agree with you, but homeopathic vets generally use natural remedies alongside conventional treatment, anyhow the placebo effect might be just what the OP needs.

Graces7

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Yes, that was my point, except whisky and valium of course, you believe in feeding your dog valium if I remember correctly.



ACP is no longer used these days, and there are plenty of other vets. Have you looked to see if there is a homoeopathic vet near you rather than taking the advice of people who have never laid eyes on your dog?

Why the animosity, please? Why this attitude?

This really is a personal attack now. Which is against forum rules I think?

There must be a reason apart from the fatc that I choose a different way from you? I am not stopping you from treating your dogs as you see fit.

I repeat, I and many others do not believe in Western drug based treatment. ACP is still used. Google this please? As I did,

Valium is a perfectly acceptable med in need; and that need has thankfully passed. This collie was appallingly traumatised and abused her first five years.

Nor do I use behaviourists, trainers etc etc tc. I know this dog and her every mood and she trusts and is at rest with me.

I have no intention of subjecting her to yet more abuse.

Graces7

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I agree with you, but homeopathic vets generally use natural remedies alongside conventional treatment, anyhow the placebo effect might be just what the OP needs.

roflol! You are so funny! I and many others do not believe in conventional treatments.. again I repeat that!

Placebo indeed!! roflol!! For the laughter, my deepest thanks! Made my day you have!!!

Graces7

boomerang wrote: »

I don';t actually believe in what you whimisically call " OAP MOTs" for myself or the critters. It is clear to any owner when something is really wrong.

Totally disagree with you there, Graces7. Many of the diseases of old age can't be detected in their early stages without at least a blood work-up by the vet. By the time the dog is showing signs, a lot of irreversable damage has been done.

As I have stated several times, this is not my belief or practice. The best assessment of a dog's health is an experienced and careful owner.

Graces7

doctor evil wrote: »

Homeopathy does not work, water does not have memory. As for buying peace of mind a wishing well may be cheaper.

Your view which many disagree with.

Graces7

As this thread has been taken way off topic and as it seems to me to be being used to make some very personal atttacks once more I have asked for help from higher up the hierarchy chain and would like this thread closed, please.

This is not the place for this kind of thing. I posted the thread simply to share as I have had so much support in the past re this old collie from many here.

I thank those kind ones and apologise for the ones who have derailed the thread with such hostility. As some pms had come in with even worse attacks I am not using the pm system here now and have reported this and deleted the offensive posts.

Never thought this forum would come to this!! Ah well.. there we are..

Blessings and peace.... and I mean that sincerely to all!

Zapperzy

Graces7 wrote: »

ACP is still used. Google this please? As I did,

Not in the republic of Ireland it isin't, it has been taken off the market here. So any vet still using it has either stockpiled it when it was available or is getting it from somewhere else like up north (which I'm not sure of the legalities of that).

DBB

Zapperzy wrote: »

Not in the republic of Ireland it isin't, it has been taken off the market here. So any vet still using it has either stockpiled it when it was available or is getting it from somewhere else like up north (which I'm not sure of the legalities of that).

I wasn't aware that ACP had been withdrawn, for medical purposes is it Zapperzy?
Certainly from a behavioural viewpoint, ACP is never, ever recommended any more for treatment of behavioural disorders, particularly those related to fears and phobias, and hasn't (or shouldn't have been) used for this purpose for years now. The stuff is lethal from a behavioural point of view, and is neither ethical, nor effective (the opposite, in fact) for use in behavioural modification or relief from fearful scenarios.

Graces7, I am sorry to read that you have received abusive PMs. I do enjoy reading some of your posts, but I'll have to agree to disagree with you with much of what you've said on this thread in particular: I'm not going to go into the nitty-gritty of why I disagree strongly with you here, for various reasons. However, it seems a tad excessive for anyone to send anyone else an abusive PM on the matter.

Whispered

In all fairness, I was once accused of being abusive because I disagreed with Graces and her assertion that I cannot care for my dog, so IF Graces got an abusive PM I'm sure the powers that be will deal with it.

Although in saying that, It's a shame how this thread went

boomerang

Graces7 wrote: »

As I have stated several times, this is not my belief or practice. The best assessment of a dog's health is an experienced and careful owner.

Definitely, an owner who is very attuned to their dog will pick up on changes in behaviour that might signal something is wrong.

But it takes more than being a knowledgable and observant owner to detect an insidious disease of old age before it reaches a point where there are few treatment options, if any. Not to mention the silent suffering of the dog or cat, who can mask all but the most unbearable pain.

Examples? Kidney disease. Liver disease. Heart disease. Cancer. Hypothyroidism. I guarantee you all of these geriatric diseases will show up on a diagnostic test far sooner than you or I would spot by observing our pet.

I haven't a bean but I don't muck about with my seniors' health. They get their full MOT every year at a minimum. If I have to go without for their sake, I do. I owe them that.

Zapperzy

DBB wrote: »

Zapperzy wrote: »

Not in the republic of Ireland it isin't, it has been taken off the market here. So any vet still using it has either stockpiled it when it was available or is getting it from somewhere else like up north (which I'm not sure of the legalities of that).

I wasn't aware that ACP had been withdrawn, for medical purposes is it Zapperzy?
Certainly from a behavioural viewpoint, ACP is never, ever recommended any more for treatment of behavioural disorders, particularly those related to fears and phobias, and hasn't (or shouldn't have been) used for this purpose for years now. The stuff is lethal from a behavioural point of view, and is neither ethical, nor effective (the opposite, in fact) for use in behavioural modification or relief from fearful scenarios.

I'm actually not sure why, stupidly forgot to ask that reason. What I do know is I was working in one practice in September when their supply ran out and they were unable to get any more, working in a different practice up until a few weeks ago and they still didn't have any. I don't think it was just a supply issue, perhaps it was a medical reason because of the boxer issue, I know another popular anaesthetic drug was taken off the market about a year ago because of a few reactions over in the uk.