can being pregnant affect her chances??

cute6guru

A friend of mine has recently started work in an i.t company she loves the job and has been tryin to get a job the last two yrs. she is just two months onto her job and has found out she is pregnant. she is afraid she will look bad and her employers will think she was dishonest by not telling them...even though she didnt know until last wk!!!
she has a 6mth probation period and is afriad they will let her go with a silly excuse as she is pregnant this is surely illegal? or is she panicking over nothing??
i think may be but just said id get some advice
thanks

ScouseMouse

Legally they cannot sack her for being pregnant.

However, the company, any company in fact, will be quite dismayed that they have just filled a vacant position and now need to fill it again.

I am not sure if she has any protection here as she is still on trial. Any dismissal does not have to be justified in the early stages. It is down to the employee to prove it was unfair.

Good luck with this one. Let us know how she gets on.

Eoin

You can let a pregnant person go - but not for being pregnant. If they're the sort of employer that would take the risk of using probation to get rid of a pregnant staff member, then it's not the type of place you'd want to work IMO.

It might be worth checking out to see when she should inform them. She might not be obliged to for health and safety until x amount of weeks.

cute6guru

She hasnt told them yet she is pretty much v.confused. its terrible as its such an excitin time for her and we are all thrilled but this is really puttin a damper on it for her. She could get away with maybe another 2mths max without tellin before its obvious for everyone to see.
i wonder will they let her go citing her performance etc as a reason....but would they be gettin into dangerous territory doing this legally....

cute6guru

Also are there any employers on here who can tell me if it was their employee how would they handle the situation?

Eoin

cute6guru wrote: »

She hasnt told them yet she is pretty much v.confused. its terrible as its such an excitin time for her and we are all thrilled but this is really puttin a damper on it for her. She could get away with maybe another 2mths max without tellin before its obvious for everyone to see.

The HSA advise that pregnant women inform their employers sooner rather than later. Her and the baby's health is the most important thing. Trying to hide it is probably unnecessary stress. Does she want to have to make up reasons for feeling tired / sick / having to attend appointments etc?

cute6guru wrote: »

i wonder will they let her go citing her performance etc as a reason....but would they be gettin into dangerous territory doing this legally....

If they're the type of cowboy operation who would do that, then it's not somewhere you'd want to work anyway. If she loves the job, then it sounds like it's not a bad place to work.

cute6guru wrote:

Also are there any employers on here who can tell me if it was their employee how would they handle the situation?

I can't imagine any employer who's going to say here that they'd try and fire her!

cute6guru

Lol i know that but how would they approach the situation after only 2 mths with the company etc.

Eoin

How far gone is she now?

allibastor

it does happen, a company my father was director of had done to a woman who worked in head office. it was for a fairly senior role and she was literally in the door and announced she was pregnant. i would imagine she was pregnant through the whole recruitment process as she was only in the company for 2.5 months before going on maternity leave.

she was given the road on the basis that she had no results to back up her being kept on. her replacement was in the job longer than her.

it is not right for a company to do this, but it will most likely happen as they will not be impressed she will be taking time off so soon into her employment. she is best to try ans sit down with a senior manager and explain the situation and see of they are happy with it.

also tell her congrats!!!

cute6guru

She is only approx 6 wks her doc said so its a genuine case she had already started before. i told her no job is worth stressin over and her baby is more important than anythin. however when u hav been waitin two years to get a job that pays well it is a difficult situation as they were hoping this job would help jer and her husband back on their feet

Eoin

allibastor wrote: »

it is not right for a company to do this, but it will most likely happen

I really don't think that's a given at all.

allibastor

Eoin wrote: »

I really don't think that's a given at all.

it will not be a given, but considered the expense of recruiting staff, then having to pay this lady while she is out, then having to recruit and pay someone to cover her. it will stick in someones throat over the fact she is just in the door and already pregnant.

as i said i dont agree with it but it does happen more and more and its very hard to prove that she was let go because she was pregnant.

Eoin

allibastor wrote: »

it will not be a given, but considered the expense of recruiting staff, then having to pay this lady while she is out, then having to recruit and pay someone to cover her. it will stick in someones throat over the fact she is just in the door and already pregnant.

as i said i dont agree with it but it does happen more and more and its very hard to prove that she was let go because she was pregnant.

You don't have to pay someone on maternity leave - even companies that do pay maternity leave often have a clause that you must be there a year.

If it's a large company they might be able to cover for her.

@cute6guru - it might be worth while asking over in the pregnancy forum what their opinions are. As has been posted, it is possible to be let go, once the reason you're given is not because she is pregnant. Whether or not they'll take that risk is very hard for anyone here to say.

Some people will wait the normal 3 months to tell their employer as that's when they'll tell their friends etc. But there might be factors that would mean she should disclose earlier; it's hard to tell.

allibastor

Eoin wrote: »

You don't have to pay someone on maternity leave - even companies that do pay maternity leave often have a clause that you must be there a year.

If it's a large company they might be able to cover for her.

@cute6guru - it might be worth while asking over in the pregnancy forum what their opinions are. As has been posted, it is possible to be let go, once the reason you're given is not because she is pregnant. Whether or not they'll take that risk is very hard for anyone here to say.

Some people will wait the normal 3 months to tell their employer as that's when they'll tell their friends etc. But there might be factors that would mean she should disclose earlier; it's hard to tell.

yeah, and some companies do not have that clause, but there is still large expense to fill the role. and that is what will piss some people off.

i agree with you, best ask the pregnancy forum as they might have some first hand knowledge about the subject

Mrs OBumble

cute6guru wrote: »

i wonder will they let her go citing her performance etc as a reason....but would they be gettin into dangerous territory doing this legally....

Within probation, they don't have to give a reason for letting her go. They can just say "sorry, it's not working out, here's X notice, don't come in on Monday".

However seeing as it's well-paid, I don't think that she should assume that this will happen: they went to a lot of trouble to recruit for the position, so they may well want her back after maternity leave. (In fact, smart companies know that women in such circumstances often make very loyal employeess, who bend over backward to make sure they're not perceived as under-performing).

Someone mentioned that they'd be annoyed at having to pay her while she's out. Fact is, they don't have to pay her. There is no compulsory employer-paid maternity leave in RoI. They may have a policy of paying - but maybe that's something that could be negotiated here.

OP A lot will come down to her attitude when she tells her boss, and how she chooses to phrase it. Being able to act as if she's disappointed, annoyed, and genuinely didn't know when she took the job will help. As will doing a fantastic job and building good relationships with manager and co-workers now.

Personally I wouldn't try to hide it for long - good managers can practically sniff it out, declared or not, based on attitudes, conversations about interests, future plans etc. It's only sensible to not say anything for the first 3 months though - you'd be amazed how many pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion during that time.

phantom_lord

Employment law offers huge protection to pregnant women. Under Section 6 of the 1998 Employment Act discrimination will occur on the gender ground where a female employee is subject to discrimination on the basis of her maternity leave or pregnancy.

This is a case that went to the ECJ, it's a UK case, but it would be similar in Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webb_v_EMO_Air_Cargo_(UK)_Ltd_(No_2)

Essentially it's prohibited to dismiss a worker during the period from the beginning of their pregnancy to the end of their maternity leave, save in exceptional circumstances unconnected with their pregnancy. And the onus will be on the employer to prove those exceptional circumstances.

Eoin

phantom_lord wrote: »

Employment law offers huge protection to pregnant women. Under Section 6 of the 1998 Act discrimination will occur on the gender ground where a female employee is subject to discrimination on the basis of her maternity leave or pregnancy.

The concern here is that she is on her probation period, where very little reason has to be given to let someone go. They just have to make sure that the reason they give is above board.

ConfusedLepton

While in general you cannot avail of unfair dismissal legislation until you have been employed for 12 months, you cannot dismiss an employee because they are pregnant - even within the first 12 months. If you tell them you are pregnant on day 1 they are essentially stuck with you. If they let her go without a reason they are opening themselves up to a case. In effect, they're going to have to eat it, like it or not. That said, if they believe she misled them to get paid maternity leave, I imagine the atmosphere isn't going to be the best when/if she returns from maternity leave. Her attitude and the relationships she builds is going to be paramount. It would be a stupid/ignorant employer to fire her.

phantom_lord

Decisions tend to be so absurdly weighted in the employee's favour that if there is even the suspicion that the pregnancy was the reason she was let go, she will likely win her case.

Eoin

That would be my feeling too; although hopefully it's not an issue for the OP's friend. Nor should we really comment on the likelihood of winning a case (edit - I know it's all hypothetical, but just to be on the safe side).

phantom_lord

Yep, sorry. Also, it's probably safe not to put too much stock in opinions from unknowns on the internet

Irish_Elect_Eng

I think that you are getting some reasonable advice here.

• It is sensible to wait until about 12 weeks to tell her employer, just in case.
• But do tell her employer, do not let them find out for themselves.
• Most reasonable employers know that it is unreasonable to expect women not to get pregnant and a large number of pregnancies are unplanned. So I would expect a reasonable response.
• Work smart for the time that she is there, impress the employer, pregnant or not it is her probation period, assume that she will be let go only if she does not perform to expectations.
• Offer to take on the task of recruiting/inducting a replacement, therefore acknowledging the burden that maternity leave will place on her manager and co-workers.

As another poster has said her attitude will mean a lot.

Fran79

Hi all

I work in a different field but here is my personal experience. I have been mostly unemployed for the past 3 yrs (a few temp jobs here and there). I was offered a full time job a mile down the road in a quality field. Not as much money as I could get elsewhere, but the hrs (8am-4pm) and no commute were big plus factors for me. I stared 13 Feb 2012. I found out I was pregnant the Saturday before I started! ( I have a little boy who has just turned 4 also).

I told my manager when I was 15 weeks - I waited till after a big external audit. I put in overtime before the audit (as did the whole dept) and have been flexible when it comes to covering other peoples shifts (there is a 4pm -midnight and midnight - 8am shift also - only swapped for the evening shift though - dont think I could do nights!!).

My manager was a little shocked to say the least, but she did congratulate me after a few seconds. She also, not having had experience of a pregnant employee asked me to let her know of any potential problems / H &S issues I could see now (or in the future). She has also liased with HR at the companys other site. She respected my request not to make a public announcement and agreed with me in advance who was to be told immediately (ie my supervisor etc).

I was really worried about the reaction I would get, but it has been really positive. I put that down to putting in a lot of hard work before I told anyone at the company and making myself an asset rather than a problem. I will even have a job to go back to after my maternity ends. Unfortunately my company doesn't pay maternity pay (who does these days), but due to being in and out of employment the past few years I don't think I will qualify for maternity benefit either. Will still apply for it - just to get the rejection letter as my husband is unemployed so will have to have a new jsa means test while I am on maternity leave.

I cant guarentee the reaction you will get, but thought I would share this positive story with you.

Fran (19weeks pregnant)

cute6guru

Wow u were really in the same situation as her. thats brill everythin worked out for u. delighted to hear this. friend beside me here feelin much more positive! v true nowhere really pays maternity nowadays so thats no biggie!
advice is brill

Neyite

Just to add to this, its early days - most people only announce the news after at least 12 weeks. in my case we left it until 14 weeks, and himself wanted to leave it even longer again, but because of my build, I was starting to show slightly by then, and people would start to notice.

Complications in early pregnancy aside, there will likely be no ante-natal visits until around 20 weeks or so, from my experience and other posters on the pregnancy forum, especially if there is no pain or bleeding. So she wont need to worry for a little while yet about trying to take time off but keeping it quiet.

cute6guru

She has decided to wait as long as she can providing no complications etc. See she is very slim and of small build so a lil bump may be more obvious on her. i didn show until near 5 months tho but u cant plan on wen u will! she is aiming to get to 4mths an that way her probation wil b jst over. fingers crossed. she still v worried about disclosing it though!

Eoin

There's a balancing act. Not giving them as much notice to be able to plan for it might not go down well.

Best of luck to her though; hopefully it's worry over nothing.

not even wrong

JustMary wrote: »

Within probation, they don't have to give a reason for letting her go. They can just say "sorry, it's not working out, here's X notice, don't come in on Monday".

You cannot be fired for being pregnant, even if you are still withing your probation period, the law specifically protects pregnant women in this situation:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/contract_of_employment.html
The contract can include a probationary period and can allow for this period to be extended. The Unfair Dismissals Acts 1997-2007 will not apply to the dismissal of an employee during a period at the beginning of employment when he/she is on probation or undergoing training provided that:

• the contract of employment is in writing
• the duration of probation or training is one year or less and is specified in the contract.

The above exclusion from the Acts will not apply if the dismissal results from trade union membership or activity, pregnancy related matters, or entitlements under the maternity protection, parental leave, adoptive leave and carer's leave legislation.

Eoin

The point has already been made that you can't be let for for being pregnant, but you can be let go while pregnant.