Storage Heaters in the city center and electric bill

movintodublin

I have been living in Dublin 2 city center for 6 months. I am having problem with my electric heater storages.

However I am working and I am not at home during the day and I only open them in the evenings, my last bill was 500 Euro!!!

I called ESB and they told me that it is an estimation, my next bill would be slightly lower than 500 Euro.

Do I do something wrong? I am not opening the storages during the day. I open them when I come from work and close in the morning again (apprx. they are working 12 hrs a day). I try to keep "input" 5 and the "output" 2

I also keep the timer of the hot water open everytime. I don't close it because I need hot water when I come home. Does this effect my bill?

I really don't know what to do. Even I pay 500 Euro for an electric bill I am not satisfied with the heat of the house.

can somebody advise me what to do?

thanks in advance

maradonas

upgrade the sytem with modern eco A rated green tech stuff if possible.
or move into an A rated city centre apt./place if they exist.

movintodublin

and 1 more question:

there is a time control on the storage I don't know how to use it (image 1)
ans this is the control panel for hot water. I also don't know how to use it (image 2)

embracingLife

hello Movintodublin,

firstly, thats crazy you got a 500e Esb bill, when did you get your last bill? Did you get a bill in the past six months since you moved in?!

Are you renting or own the apt?! Suppose you are renting, and nobody explained to you about storage heating, estate agent/landlord etc. You should contact landlord or estate agent to check heating but this is the ground work for you to check first.
However, feck all people know how storage heating works, except the electricians who install it, but nobody bothers to explain to the end user how it all really works! Pity there is no straight forward manual for everyone to use! Then again have a read of the following, hope it helps! In relation to your questions I'll answer them as I go along.

There are a few different issues as to why your bill is so high. Check last bill meter readings and go and try and find where electricity meters are in your apartment building. If you can assess them (if they are not in a locked press etc) and take a note of the actual readings are now, meter is split into 2 readings-day and night units. Then get on to Esb and update your account.

Ok,here's the easy/hard part of explaining how storage heating works.
The heaters heat up at night between 11.30pm and 8am all year round irrespective of summer/winter times etc.

(Also the water heater control box-in pic 2, benefits from the same night heat. You can just about make out on the clock of the control box the clear part along where "5 to 9am" is, this is where timer for the night heat is programmed for. In person the transparent part of this clock extends from "24 o'clock" to "9am". Don't worry about the exact times, as the Esb timeclock for this night heat is located in basement with all the meters and is outside the apartment occupiers control, but the times are fixed for the night rates).

Basically this means that for a lay person's point of view, the heaters "soak" up electricity internally in ceramic "bricks" at night and then when the electricity to heaters stops, they release the heat over the course of the following 12 hrs or so.
Its not really an exact science to control the rate that the heater releases the heat anyway, but the "output" switch adjusts an internal steel vent inside the storage heater which slows down the speed/rate of the heater warming air that passes naturally through/around the vents in heater, to hopefully allow there to be enough warmth in the heater by several hours after the electricity stops warming up heater,usually by late evening the next day.

You as the end user can control the speed of release of heat "slightly" by turning the "output" knob on top of heater to "1", so when you get home in evening, turn this knob/switch upwards to whatever ie "2,3,4,5" etc to benefit from the last of the heat in heaters for that evening/night when you come home from work etc. Its best to put the "input" at "4" and see how that goes, as at "5",its at max and using lots of electricity.Then put it to "3" the following night and see how warm apartment is the next day.

There is also a wall thermostat (maybe pale yellow or white plastic box about 4 iches square with a round switch sticking out from front), usually in hall of apt which is the main control for all the storage heaters in apt. There also maybe a second wall thermostat on living room wall, which would have "boost" written in it. If there is this thermostat on living room wall, this thermostat only controls the "instant" heater element in one of the living room storage heaters. I dont have any photos handy to post up but you should be able to see these wall thermostats (also just called "stats"). See if the livingroom wall stat is on-usually turned clockwise. If its on it means you have left on the "instant" heater by mistake-aswell as seeing of the wall switch beside heater itself is on too. See below for description on "instant heater element" part of storage heater.

However its only the rooms that the storage heaters that benefit from the heat-usually the living room and a small storage heater about 2 foot high by 1 foot wide in hall. The heaters in bedrooms are not storage heats and are just simple electric heaters which heat up instantly when they are switched on (in effect just like a hair dryer!) and do not benefit from the cheaper night rate of electricity. I'm guessing that the timeclock in your first photo is attached to these bedroom heaters (usually are anyway). (If its on the livingroom storage heater, then I need to scratch my head some more and maybe some other expert on here can fill me/us in).
From the photo its not possible to see if there is another override switch to turn the timeclock off completely apart from the switch above the timeclock marked "I" and "II".
I'm not familiar with very modern storage heaters so, the advice I'm giving here is for the bog standard storage heaters-if storage heaters controls have changed in recent years then I stand corrected. But usual storage heaters operate on this system.

You say you are not satisfied with heat of apt? Well, unfortunately that's life with storage heating, but you will have to go by trial and error to adjust to a comfortable heat for you. But as I said above somewhere the storage heaters only heat the rooms they are in and not the whole apartment.

"Instant heater element" part of main livingroom storage heater:
Also to control each storage heater-that is isolate each one to turn one off at a time,for safety and proper wiring purposes etc there are electric switches (similar to light switches) usually on wall near bottom of heater. In the living room, you may either have 2 seperate storage heaters, one on each wall, or just one storage heater. Look and see if one of these heaters has 2 wall switches, either one switch on each side of heater or both switches beside each other. If any storage heater has 2 switches on wall beside it, then this heater is a "combination heater". This means that there is a small electric element attached to inside front cover and this element can be turned on/off instantly and works just like the bedroom heaters.
You maybe be unknowingly turning on this "instant" heating element of the storage heater and leaving it on all day which could be the reason for the high ESB bill!
Most likely these wall switches do not have any red neon light and so you dont know what you are turning on.
To identify if the "instant heater" part of storage heater is on, you will usually have to wait until late evening about 9pm, when the storage heater has lost most of its heat (that's if the storage heater part is really on!) to identify how to control the "instant heater" switch.
SO.......you turn on one of the wall switches one at a time and put your hand just a few inches above the top of storage heater-where the vents are-and see if you can feel any hot air suddenly start to come out of heater vents?! You should also be able to hear an obvious "humming" sound coming heater. This is usually the instant heating element coming on.
Also, there sometimes is a red light inside/outside storage heater which identifies this "instant heater element". Wait first to feel any hot air coming out of vents, then carefully lean near to top of heater and try and see down into it if there is any red light on inside heater. Then again maybe no light inside it!

If you do feel there is a sudden rush of hot air out of top of heater-then its either this "instant heater" coming on or its the last of the heat coming out of storage part.
But its a obvious sign that you are inadvertently leaving on this "instant heater" all day, if the 2 wall switches beside a living room storage heater are both switched in down position (just like a light switch). Only one should be down -the night storage one. This "instant" heater is purely just for occasional heat if you were away etc and come home and wanted to warm up the room, as it has been mentioned to me by ESB electricians that this "instant" heater part literally eats electricity if left on for several hours!!

In relation to the water heater control:
"I also keep the timer of the hot water open everytime. I don't close it because I need hot water when I come home. Does this effect my bill?"

Look on the water control time clock and make sure the clock is set at "real time". If its not then turn the clock until its at correct real time. If its not set to real time, it may be on during day and using lots of electricity. It is designed to heat up in middle of night (part where the transparent window is).
The water tank itself is (should be) covered by an insulating foam (about 2 inches thick)-either green or blue in colour. This foam keeps the water in tank hot for several hours after heater stops.
However if you use water in morning,obviously some/most of the hot water from during night will be used up but there should be some left in tank until evening and that's what the "Boost" switch on control box is for! When you arrive home in evening, you turn on "boost" for either the max 120 minutes or anywhere to less than 30 minutes. This "boost" switch counts down on its own from the time you turn it to,back to "0" and it turns itself off.

BUT.........there maybe a problem with the water tank heater elements/thermostats, and they maybe no longer working properly-either the thermostats are literally boiling the water rather than turning off the water heater element when it gets to the a set temperature. So,its be a help to get the landlord/estate agent to get a plumber out to make sure they are working. If the thermostats or elements are no longer working they need to be replaced. The thermostats are easy to replace by a maintenance man but to replace the elements the water tank needs to be emptied of water-so a plumber etc needs to be called. This is where your landlord/estate agent needs to be called.
As a side note: To identify where the water tank heating elements are, you will see 2 steel round boxes sticking out of side of water tank,one about 6 inches up from bottom of tank and other half way up the side of tank. Each have an electric cable attached.

I think that's a clearer picture for you (and anyone else reading) to know everything about storage heating.

Is that the time,I deserve a cup of tea!

embracingLife

I think you maybe unaware how the time clock for the water operates. In my above post, this time clock comes on during night, but you may not have it set for "real time" an its coming on during day, so its heating water during day on day rate of electricity.

If you have this time clock set right, it doesn't matter that the big button marked "off/timed" is on all day, as the time clock sets itself on during night. Then again, there maybe a fault with the time clock and it needs to be checked-or replaced. However, these time clocks are usually very reliable and there are lots of apartments that have these time clocks for 10+ years and are still working fine.

There could be a fault with the water tank heating element which has basically malfunctioned and this is literally boiling the water non stop rather than working as it should by shutting off the element at a set temperature.

Anyway, if you either are renting or own apt, get a plumber who will sort it properly. An electrician can identify the problems with storage heaters and there maybe faulty switches aswell as you using heaters wrong, but the electrician sometimes don't want to get their hands wet literally when it comes to the water tank, but he can identify any problems with the water tank heating elements/thermostats. A plumber will be better to replace the elements.

good luck.

movintodublin

You deserve more than a cup of tea!!! Thanks a million!!!
I am rentin the apt. and unfortunately my landord told me that he also didn't know how they works and advise me to check on internet!!

but your detailed explanation works a lot. First of all yes my clock doesn't show the real time. I changed it and I updated the output/input on the storages.

Now I will wait and see the next bill. My previous bills were 250e for 1,5 months, 500e for 2 months and 350 for 2 months (but I was not staying home nearly 3 weeks so everything was closed).

do you know hat should be the average amount for the bill. My apt. has 2 bedrooms.

thanks again you are a hero!

embracingLife

Its still crazy that you are getting 250 euro and higher bills.I'm fairly sure that on average apartment living with storage heaters and electric cookers would be about 60/80 euro a month in middle of winter. But I stand corrected, it would be less in summer. But that's a general figure depends on how many people living there and sometimes by using electricity sparingly. How many people live in apt?

Also it'd be a good idea to turn the switch marked "off/timer" on water heater control box to "off" when you leave apt in morning, just in case there maybe something wrong with your control box and it'd be better to turn it off when not in apt during day. By turning the switch off, it does NOT stop the clock part from working, it just prevents electricity being used to heat water,if there's any problem with the control box in first place.

I really do advise you to get access to the electricity meter for your apt. They will be located in either ground floor corrider or in underground car park (if there is underground car park in your building). You should ask landlord where they are. On second thoughts demand from the landlord to tell you where the meters are! Btw did landlord give you a meter reading when you moved in?

You say you were not there for 3 weeks yet you have a high bill, then clearly something is wrong with the settings etc on your heaters and water timer!

Btw, when do you think apt building was built?! Ask landlord.

You can do another thing to find out what the electricity usage was for previous tenants. Phone ESB Networks http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/en/home/contact_us.jsp

This is the company who maintain the electricity system in the country (supposed to be different from ESB Customer Supply, now called Electric Ireland). Anyway tell them your MPRN number which is on your bill and ask them to tell you what the meter readings were going back the past few years. You can then see how much electricity previous people used etc. Also you could phone Electric Ireland first who may have that info but sometimes won't give it out to only the individual account holders etc, but try them first.

embracingLife

Just read you last post again, it seems reason could have been that the water heater was on during day and not at night and as you said you left water timer switch on during day so this maybe was heating water all day aswell as the water cylinder heating elements probably have broke down.

You should insist landlord gets an electrician to check storage heaters and water cylinder heating thermostats in elements are working ok. I'd say there is a fault with them.

The thermostats go after prolonged use, especially in apts, after a few years and should be regularly replaced. The thermostats are only a part of the water cylinder elements and should be checked first, but the electrician/handy man whomever landlord gets should be able to see there and then if the elements themselves are gone too. These "stats" are only about 5 euro each and someone handy should be able to replace them. They are the part of element that the electric cable attaches to so there is no need to removed them from cylinder-no need for plumber there.

embracingLife

hello,

did u get your storage heating and electricity bill sorted?

just curious what happened since!

movintodublin

hi there,

I am lookoing forward to receive my next electricity bill :which will be sent in July
I arranged the time of heater and hot water in night time. So that the bill should be in normal range. we'll see... I will inform you