6 Irish Children found among those trafficked for sex trade : (

curlzy

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/six-children-forced-sex-trade-180808639.html

Are there really enough pedos in Ireland that the pimps in this case can actually use children like this and not worry that no one will report them? Call my naive but how can they operate without someone reporting them? Surely the majority of men that use prostitutes would have enough morals to report that children are being used or is a case that if you're scummy enough to use prostitutes you're scummy enough to turn a blind eye to the fact children are being abused like this? :eek::mad::(

Professey Chin

Its more a case most men who use prostitutes go for women their own age.
If youre the kinda person who looks for a kid prostitute your not gonna be the one who reports it

seamus

curlzy wrote: »

Surely the majority of men that use prostitutes would have enough morals to report that children are being used

"Eh, yeah, hi Garda. I was looking for a prostitute the other day, and I came across this woman who I think might be a little too young. You might look into that".

I'm not being blasé, but do you really think that someone would walk into a Garda station and voluntarily report that they accidentally solicited a child for sex?

Assuming that someone would have the good grace to refuse to have sex with the child, that person will likely just walk away and forget about it, "It's not my problem". Pursuing it will only open a world of hurt for themselves.

In many cases, the way these children are presented the client will probably not jump to the conclusion that they're underage and since the prostitute usually displays a willingness to do the deed, any hesitation the client has about it is removed because the act appears to be mutually consensual.

I think what's most concerning is that a child who is presumably well recorded in the Irish system can be used like this by a parent or guardian without anyone noticing.

flanders1979

I presume they are the children of immigrants?

prinz

curlzy wrote: »

... a case that if you're scummy enough to use prostitutes you're scummy enough to turn a blind eye to the fact children are being abused like this? :eek::mad::(

Sort of. They are after one thing. I don't think they are going put too much thought into whether the prostitute they are using is 15 or 18, especially when it comes to girls of an immigrant background.

Morag

flanders1979 wrote: »

I presume they are the children of immigrants?

Why?

Would that make it less evil?
Would you care less?

micropig

flanders1979 wrote: »

I presume they are the children of immigrants?

why?

Capt'n Midnight

Doesn't the new law mean someone can get 10 years for not reporting this sort of thing ?

RichieC

****ing hell.

super_furry

Sharrow wrote: »

Why?

Would that make it less evil?
Would you care less?

I’d say it’s more to do that people like them can often live on the margins. Afraid to turn to the authorities as they may or may not be here legally.

Dravokivich

curlzy wrote: »

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/six-children-forced-sex-trade-180808639.html

Are there really enough pedos in Ireland that the pimps in this case can actually use children like this and not worry that no one will report them? Call my naive but how can they operate without someone reporting them? Surely the majority of men that use prostitutes would have enough morals to report that children are being used or is a case that if you're scummy enough to use prostitutes you're scummy enough to turn a blind eye to the fact children are being abused like this? :eek::mad::(

here's a bit of a :eek::eek: for you considering your views on prositution. A short while ago go there was a guy in Cork who operated an agency/brothel who reported a number of men looking for underage girls. He ended up getting done himself for operating the agency/brothel.

OldNotWIse

Sharrow wrote: »

Why?

Would that make it less evil?
Would you care less?

It wouldn't make it less evil but if they are children of illegal immigrants then perhaps their records would not be as strong as other children's. It might be easier for them to slip through the net? I don't know really

Jesus Shaves

Now they're taking our children too!

flanders1979

Sharrow wrote: »

Why?

Would that make it less evil?
Would you care less?

No its because I am so used to hearing horror stories about children being trafficked by people who have just arrived here.
How many times have we heard stories of underage Romanian girls going missing to marry some lad back home?

stovelid

flanders1979 wrote: »

I presume they are the children of immigrants?

According to the article, yes.

There was a brothel owner in Cork a coupla years who reported someone who came in looking for a young girl to the Gardai. Tried to do the right thing, ended up in court himself. The people in a position to report these things to the police generally won't do so out of self-preservation, there's no medals for anyone who does.

seamus

Sharrow wrote: »

Why?

Would that make it less evil?
Would you care less?

I think it's a fair question to ask. There's a reason why so few of these trafficked children are Irish, and that's likely because it would be quite difficult for a number of reasons to keep a documented Irish child in the sex trade in Ireland.

However the Irish child of an non-Irish immigrant would be harder to keep tabs on (especially if they were brought out of the country for any period of time before being brought back), and it would explain how some Irish children ended up being trafficked.

The worst thing is that in general it's somehow seen as more appalling if these are Irish children being trafficked rather than Roma or African children, which is why the article felt the need to highlight that six of them were Irish.

If the report hadn't stated the nationality of the children, would the media have bothered reporting it?

Ghost Buster

Oh look. Another Church bashing thread

super_furry

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Oh look. Another Church bashing thread

Where?

micropig

stovelid wrote: »

According to the article, yes.

can you quote the part of the article that says that. I've read it a ferw times and can't see where it says that

Six Irish children....................Thirteen were minors and seven of those - including the six Irish youngsters - had been forced in to the sex trade..................

Another [URL="Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/six-children-forced-into-sex-trade-16152630.html#ixzz1tiRbf9TB"]article on it[/URL]



Thirteen were minors and seven of those - including the six Irish youngsters - had been forced in to the sex trade.

The indo version

Six Irish children were among 57 alleged victims of human trafficking reported to gardai last year, it has emerged


No where in any of the articles does it describe the Irish children as children of illegal immigrants

Min

Dravokivich wrote: »

here's a bit of a :eek::eek: for you considering your views on prositution. A short while ago go there was a guy in Cork who operated an agency/brothel who reported a number of men looking for underage girls. He ended up getting done himself for operating the agency/brothel.

Deleted User wrote: »

There was a brothel owner in Cork a coupla years who reported someone who came in looking for a young girl to the Gardai. Tried to do the right thing, ended up in court himself. The people in a position to report these things to the police generally won't do so out of self-preservation, there's no medals for anyone who does.

So he got done for being involved in illegal activity, he wasn't doing the right thing to start with.

It is the facilitation of people who buys sex that leads to adults and children being trafficked into prostitution.
They even have this problem in Amsterdam as legality of adult prostitution does not remove the problem.

I have no time for anybody who runs a brothel.

Min

Min wrote: »

I have no time for anybody who runs a brothel.

Because it's illegal or for moral reasons? Either way I disagree :pac:

ejmaztec

super_furry wrote: »

Where?

Yes, I can't see any mention of Charlotte either.

thebigbiffo

ok, here's a novel idea:

regulate the sex trade so consenting adults can do what they like with their own bodies thus cutting out the need for (forced or under false pretence) trafficking at all, making it easier for punters and operators alike to report unlawful/suspect requests and free Garda time to focus on proper illegal prostitution.

prinz

thebigbiffo wrote: »

ok, here's a novel idea:
regulate the sex trade so consenting adults can do what they like with their own bodies thus cutting out the need for (forced or under false pretence) trafficking at all, making it easier for punters and operators alike to report unlawful/suspect requests and free Garda time to focus on proper illegal prostitution.

Places with "regulated" sex trades still have major issues with trafficking and children. Regulating it doesn't remove the scum element.

Min

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it's illegal or for moral reasons? Either way I disagree :pac:

It is exploiting people, would you want yor sister, your mother your brother, your father, your own children being involved in prostitution?

There are a lot of people who are in prostitution not of their own free will and there are a lot of people who don't care once they get their orgasm.

Pushtrak

seamus wrote: »

The worst thing is that in general it's somehow seen as more appalling if these are Irish children being trafficked rather than Roma or African children, which is why the article felt the need to highlight that six of them were Irish.

Exactly. Nationality isn't the issue, and its pretty disgusting to make out that it is.

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it's illegal or for moral reasons? Either way I disagree :pac:

Maybe his time isn't spent with the owner?

ahal

This is nothing new to me at all ... the Government and it's agencies knew all of this as early as 1999 but chose to ignore it. Having worked in the area of Refugees and Asylum seekers for many years my one main attempt at voicing concern was brought to the attention of my boss by the dept. for unaccomapanied minors, and my boss duly forced me to write a letter retracting all of my observations. If the dept. gave a toss, they'd have contacted ME instead of trying to lose me my job.

This is, as Ruhama put it (they're not a State agency) "The tip of the iceberg". What usually happens is:

1/ Girl of 15 - 20 arrives here as an unaccompanied minor

2/ Talks to no one for a couple of months

3/ Then relaxes, gets sociable for a while

4/ Dude in expensive car turns up for a few evenings in a row, hushed conversations. Usually foreign / same nationality

5/ Girl disappears for nights on end, sometimes a full week (no one gave a sh1t)

6/ At this point they're usually on drugs

7/ Girl is found in a busted brothel in Dublin

That's basically about it. There's no real problem with reportage at all ... the problem is that senior care workers are on obscene money and all most of them care about is shifting responsibility / hushing things up in order to protect their wages ... and not anything to do with the people they're meant to be protecting.

At the end of the day you can report all you like. I can report the weather outside to my cat, but it won't make much difference.

Having seen the reality, Alan Shatter just peddles spin of the most revolting nature.

thebigbiffo

prinz wrote: »

Places with "regulated" sex trades still have major issues with trafficking and children. Regulating it doesn't remove the scum element.

please note where i, in short, note that a regulated industry free's up the authorities time to deal with the very bad elements of the industry. real regulation gives the 'normal' sex trade a voice - keeping it underground keeps the real scum underground

Min

thebigbiffo wrote: »

ok, here's a novel idea:

regulate the sex trade so consenting adults can do what they like with their own bodies thus cutting out the need for (forced or under false pretence) trafficking at all, making it easier for punters and operators alike to report unlawful/suspect requests and free Garda time to focus on proper illegal prostitution.

That doesn't happen.

Where prostitution islegal and regulated there is still the problem of people trafficked into the sex industry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8457172.stm

There were nearly 500 women rescued last year according to Dutch police.
"Each year we have more cases," I was told by a policeman who runs an undercover team that infiltrates trafficking gangs.

The industry is worth "millions of euros", he said. "The recruiters are getting money, the transporters are getting money, the exploiters are getting that money."
"Only the girls will get nothing," he adds.



In an attempt to make the area easier to police, the local authorities are forcibly buying up nearly half of the 482 brothels in the red light district and closing them down.
But it is not difficult to find a British stag weekender, a bright young man who had admitted to using a prostitute.
I told him that many prostitutes in Amsterdam had been trafficked.
"I don't agree with that, I think it's awful," he said, but admitted it probably would not stop him using a prostitute again that night.
"I disagree with it, but at the end of the day it's just what happens, like. You can't do anything about it. You're just here to have fun, and do things you won't get away with back home."

We need to prosecute the users of prostitutes and to have the user's name published in national newspapers.

thebigbiffo

Min wrote: »

It is exploiting people, would you want yor sister, your mother your brother, your father, your own children being involved in prostitution?
QUOTE]

i also wouldn't like them to be strippers, coal miners, childrens party clowns, a member of Dirty Sanchez or a Bertie Aherns Personal Blame taker...

but at the end of the day, i can't stop them doing anything they wanted.

prinz

thebigbiffo wrote: »

please note where i, in short, note that a regulated industry free's up the authorities time to deal with the very bad elements of the industry. real regulation gives the 'normal' sex trade a voice - keeping it underground keeps the real scum underground

But it doesn't free up the authorities does it? Because of on top of trying to hunt down the scum elements, you'll also have to keep on top of the so called regulated industry. It just increases the number of establishments you need to keep a very close eye on.

thebigbiffo

Min wrote: »

That doesn't happen.

Where prostitution islegal and regulated there is still the problem of people trafficked into the sex industry.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8457172.stm



We need to prosecute the users of prostitutes and to have the user's name published in national newspapers.

'trafficking' is facilitating ellegal immigration - not forced/illegal prostitution

Min

Min wrote: »

It is exploiting people, would you want yor sister, your mother your brother, your father, your own children being involved in prostitution?

No, same as I wouldn't want them in an army or in politics.

There are a lot of people who are in prostitution not of their own free will and there are a lot of people who don't care once they get their orgasm.

Better to be able to differentiate between them IMO. Assuming all are being forced doesn't particularly help.

Also as posted above there were 500 women rescued in Holland, how many are rescued here on in Britain with a far higher population? Regulation won't completely eradicate problems but it seems that in Holland at least sometimes they can do something to help.

Min

thebigbiffo wrote: »

Min wrote: »

It is exploiting people, would you want yor sister, your mother your brother, your father, your own children being involved in prostitution?
QUOTE]

i also wouldn't like them to be strippers, coal miners, childrens party clowns, a member of Dirty Sanchez or a Bertie Aherns Personal Blame taker...

but at the end of the day, i can't stop them doing anything they wanted.

But a lot of people involved in prostitution are not there because they want to be.

Min

Deleted User wrote: »

No, same as I wouldn't want them in an army or in politics.

Better to be able to differentiate between them IMO. Assuming all are being forced doesn't particularly help.

Also as posted above there were 500 women rescued in Holland, how many are rescued here on in Britain with a far higher population? Regulation won't completely eradicate problems but it seems that in Holland at least sometimes they can do something to help.

..and all they are doing in the Netherlands is closing down and more and more brothels because they are finding themselves unable to control what they are suppose to be able to regulate.

Min

Min wrote: »

..and all they are doing in the Netherlands is closing down and more and more brothels because they are finding themselves unable to control what they are suppose to be able to regulate.

Are they closing down indiscriminately or targetting some for specific reasons?

Pushtrak

Min wrote: »

But a lot of people involved in prostitution are not there because they want to be.

And you say this based on what? Or is it just a baseless assertion?

eviltwin

Min wrote: »

thebigbiffo wrote: »

But a lot of people involved in prostitution are not there because they want to be.

Equally you have women who do it through choice, maybe they would rather earn money by other means but they ultimately choose to do it. As much as I don't like it I don't think there is anything wrong with that decision nor is there anything wrong with a man who pays her for sex.

The real problem is when men target underage prostitutes and the people who traffic men/women against their will.

Have heard though that sadly a lot of the punters work in law enforcement so the chances of it being stamped out are probably small.

Dravokivich

Min wrote: »

So he got done for being involved in illegal activity, he wasn't doing the right thing to start with.

It is the facilitation of people who buys sex that leads to adults and children being trafficked into prostitution.
They even have this problem in Amsterdam as legality of adult prostitution does not remove the problem.

I have no time for anybody who runs a brothel.

I was merely putting forward the idea that men being envovled in prostitution doesn't nessicarly mean they are abusive scumbags. A point you sorely missed.

whirlpool

Sharrow wrote: »

Why?

Would that make it less evil?
Would you care less?

I hate responses like this.

He never said any of that. Why would you ask those questions?

Min

Pushtrak wrote: »

And you say this based on what? Or is it just a baseless assertion?

Well in Amsterdam it was stated that many of the prostitutes have been trafficked into the sex industry.

In Ireland it would be no diffeent and it was shown on Primetime how women are abused in this manner.

People who use prostitutes are pathetic and they don't care where their sexual fix comes from, they don't care if the woman is being forced to have sex.
Do they ask have you been trafficked into the sex trade?
These people who are not doing it of their own free will, are people who are frightened, probably illegally in the country, brought in under false pretences and too scared to tell anyone the truth about the depths of despair they have found themselves in.

They are controlled and ashamed about they are made do. It is terrible and for me, the people who use prostitutes and it doesn't matter if they are legal, the fact people use prostitutes is what fuels people ending up in sexual slavery.
We need to prosecute the users, name and shame the users in public.

Min

Dravokivich wrote: »

I was merely putting forward the idea that men being envovled in prostitution doesn't nessicarly mean they are abusive scumbags. A point you sorely missed.

They are scumbags as their actions are not without consequences for those who do not want to be in the sex trade.

micropig

whirlpool wrote: »

I hate responses like this.

He never said any of that. Why would you ask those questions?

Why would you immediately assume they're children of foreign illegal immigrants?

Min

Deleted User wrote: »

Are they closing down indiscriminately or targetting some for specific reasons?

Crime is the main reason.

filmbuffboy

Its truly disgusting what these people are doing. The poor kids.

eviltwin

micropig wrote: »

Why would you immediately assume they're children of foreign illegal immigrants?

He/she never used the word "illegal"

I think its a fair assumption tbh, kids of immigrants are more likely to slip through the cracks more than an Irish child.

prinz

micropig wrote: »

Why would you immediately assume they're children of foreign illegal immigrants?

Plenty of reasons already on the thread. Children from an immigrant background would be easier to traffic, easier to hide, have more than likely less of an extended family/friend/neighbour network who would report them missing or the know how/know who to get authorities involved, perhaps more difficult to guess their real age from first appearances etc.

micropig

eviltwin wrote: »

He/she never used the word "illegal"

I think its a fair assumption tbh, kids of immigrants are more likely to slip through the cracks more than an Irish child.

John O’Mahoney, Garda assistant commissioner, said recently that 114 children who have been reported missing in the past five years are still missing. A staggering 106 of those 114 children were reported missing while in care of the State.


114 children missing in Ireland over the last 5 years
106 of these from state care


@prinz 'Plenty of reasons already on the thread.', but none in the article

Dravokivich

Min wrote: »

Well in Amsterdam it was stated that many of the prostitutes have been trafficked into the sex industry.

In Ireland it would be no diffeent and it was shown on Primetime how women are abused in this manner.

Most shows tend to have a bias on things leading towards the extreme to provoke people.

Min wrote: »

People who use prostitutes are pathetic and they don't care where their sexual fix comes from, they don't care if the woman is being forced to have sex.
Do they ask have you been trafficked into the sex trade?

There can be many reasons for a man to solicit a prostitue, without any need to be a selfish deviant of sorts. Just because a guy doesn't enquire if a woman is trafficed doesn't mean they wouldn't care if they were to become aware the woman was trafficed.

You've got quite horrible opinion of some people...

Min wrote: »

These people who are not doing it of their own free will, are people who are frightened, probably illegally in the country, brought in under false pretences and too scared to tell anyone the truth about the depths of despair they have found themselves in.
They are controlled and ashamed about they are made do.

I would stand up and argue against people being forced into slavery and regularly abused as a result of it. But Prostituition itself is not the be all and end all of it.

Min wrote: »

It is terrible and for me, the people who use prostitutes and it doesn't matter if they are legal, the fact people use prostitutes is what fuels people ending up in sexual slavery.
We need to prosecute the users, name and shame the users in public.

No we don't, some guy who just wants a bit of sex is not a problem. They didn't put a woman there against their will. We need to prosecute those who traffic, force and abuse other people.

Min wrote: »

They are scumbags as their actions are not without consequences for those who do not want to be in the sex trade.

Their actions are of no consequence if it is not with someone who was forced. As is the case with that guy from Cork.

prinz

micropig wrote: »

@prinz 'Plenty of reasons already on the thread.', but none in the article

I'd imagine that's why the poster started with 'I presume...'