Does the FA Cup mean anything anymore?

MonkeyTennis

When i was a lad the FA cup was bigger than the league.

It was the big day out and got all the plaudits.Im sure this is not the first time its been asked but Im not sure I like a sport where coming 4th is now a bigger financial prize than the FA cup

UnitedIrishman

With regards the final itself - Need to move it back to the week after the league finishes, even though it's meant to clash with Premier League fixtures. (in which case, move the league forward a week somewhere along the line).

Instead it's nearly skimmed over amongst Premier League fixtures these days which is a shame because have some great memories of FA Cup finals - with or without United. Always saw it as the last date on the club football calendar and was a great standalone fixture.

cantgetright

ESPN starting tv coverage at 8am.
Its still a big deal.

Zaph

Kick off isn't until 5.15pm on Saturday, which is definitely relegating the competition to a sideshow. It may not have the glamour it once had, but I'd say there are plenty of players would be only too happy to get their hands on a winners medal all the same. It's just another casualty of the huge money that floods into the EPL and having the likes of Sky forgetting that there's any other domestic football outside of that.

kitakyushu

From a fan pov I think the FA Cup is no big deal anymore.

Reasons why
1) ManU withdrawing in 2000 sending out a clear signal that some clubs didn't value it anymore.
3) Semi-finals beginning at Wembley
2) The move to Cardiff during the rebuilding phase.

I remember when I was a kid matches at the old Wembley were a big thrill for me. The stadium itself was so big, imposing and oddlooking it really felt like a big deal. The steps up to the box were a perfectly designed. Nowadays they play in this boring looking superbowl with a giant corporate section that stays empty well into the second half. Even the steps to the presentation are a joke.

But above all I agree that CL qualification became the only thing that matters anymore and no club seeking that was going to put maxmimum effort into 6x games with little financial reward.

Paparazzo

On off the ball a few weeks ago no one could remember the 2009 final. No one remembered everton in a final and no one remembered the fastest goal scored in a final.

When I was younger every one could list off the last 10 winners with final scores and goalscorers. Cup final day was great and everyone watched it. Their poxy suits were a big deal.
Now no one gives a rats ass

CiaranC

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

Does the FA Cup mean anything anymore?

To who exactly?

tvercetti

Maybe if Liverpool turn up in beige suits, it will suddenly grow in importance.

smokedeels

Yeah, but not as much as CL football. I'm not sure if I like that fact, but it's true.

~Rebel~

Sure, it's definitely in third place behind the league and the champions league, but it still means plenty.

One need only look over the winners record to see that. In the past 20 years, only Portsmouth and Everton have broken the domination of the biggest clubs, once each (With Portsmouth being the only exception in the past 15 years). Otherwise, it's all Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool - with Man City getting one when they became more established as a top tier team again last year.

And of course this year it will remain that way with either Liverpool or Chelsea winning it.

eagle eye

Its all because multiple teams get into the Champion's League.

RayCon

It does to whoever wins it !

spockety

Wow, what an intriguely timed thread.

J Cheever Loophole

To answer the question, "Does the FA Cup mean anything anymore?", then the reply of course is 'yes'. There'll be a full house at Wembley, both teams going at it hammer and tongs, and of course great celebrations for the winners.

However that should not disguise the fact that what we have is but a pale shadow of what was once a great occasion (FA Cup Final Day), as the climax to what is a pale shadow of a once truely great competition.

In my own opinion, the FA Cup is suffering death by a thousand cuts, and a Saturday evening kick off is simply the latest cut to further undermine its importance in football.

Someone already mentioned Man United not even partaking in it to go to the World Club Championship; there's also the introduction of penalties to decide fixtures and the abolition of replays - anyone here old enough to remember the great FA Cup ties involving multiple games - Ipswich and Leeds (1975?), Arsenal and Sheffield Wednesday (1979?) or the FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Arsenal in 1980, to name but a few.

One of the great days in the football calendar - FA Cup third round day - has been moved from January to December and back again. Last year's FA Cup Final was played on a day when there was a full league fixture list on.

Most of the top teams nowadays will field weakened teams in FA Cup fixtures to avoid injuries in the league, thus giving a direct message as to the importance they hold it in. Most clubs in the top two divisions would get smaller attendances for home FA Cup fixtures than for league fixtures - again highlighting the importance given.

The biggest indicator for me personally is the fact that Sky don't want any part of it - they can see the thing is dying on its feet. The whole thing is an awful pity, but no surprise. How soon before FA Cup fixtures are consigned to mid-week over the Winter and Spring?

Phoenix Park

spockety wrote: »

Wow, what an intriguely timed thread.

Indeed, i wonder who OP supports :pac:

Soups123

It's become a secondary competition for most top clubs. If they could change the winner price to Champions League spot then it could reignite the effort top clubs put into it!

iregk

It's been mentioned twice now and I have to defend United here. I'm no fan, can't stand them but they did not devalue the competition in 2000 by not bothering with it as some has stated. They were pretty much forced into an impossible position by the FA. They were European champions and the FA wanted an english team to contest the World Club Cup. United were pretty much caught between a rock and a hard place and in the end to go with the FA wishes they went to the WCC. If anyone the FA has devalued their own cup in this instance.

Now on the cup itself. To me it's nothing more than a trinket that is a good to have at the end of an otherwise fruitless season. It's not the big day out it was in the past and there isn't a real sense of occasion about it any more. The 5:15 kick off time tells you all you need to know. It should be the last game of the season on at 3pm. If Chelsea really want the CL they should put the kids out for the final and rest the squad.

Sappy404

It certainly means a lot when your side have a chance of winning it, and it means even more if that side aren't realistically challenging for the league or a place in Europe.

It certainly meant a lot to Portsmouth when they won it, and to Man City as it was their first trophy in 30-odd years or whatever it was. To teams who've won bigger things in recent years and who are still challenging on other fronts it would mean less, but I think the growing media focus on the bigger teams ('Big 4', Super Sunday etc), and the financial aspects of success also contributes to the perception that it's less relevant too. To these bigger teams the talk is of league titles and Champions League, but to everyone else it's an attainable piece of silverware and is still quite important.

J Cheever Loophole

iregk wrote: »

It's been mentioned twice now and I have to defend United here. I'm no fan, can't stand them but they did not devalue the competition in 2000 by not bothering with it as some has stated.

I didn't say Man United were responsible for their own absence.

abouttobebanned

The 1990 FA cup run by Man Utd runs the 1999 season very close for me in terms of my favourite football memory.

I was actually only 9 during that run in and I really have some incredibly vivid memories of just about all the matches. We were drawn away for all of the matches and I know it was a year that Mark Robbins (and maybe Lee Martin) will never forget.

On the Sunday of the semi finals, after the amazing Liverpool V Palace match I remember running out to the back and playing football, pretending to be hughes etc... We were up against Oldham in the early evening and that proved to be a cracker as well. Denis Irwin and Andy Ritchie were banes in our side that day.

Clubs generally recorded a song for the final back in those days...which should tell you how important the event was. We recorded one called "we will stand together", which wasn't too many bridges from The frogs singing we all stand together. Palace won the first battle with their rendition of "Glad all Over".

The Coverage would start early on BBC and the key was that this was the only event that mattered that day. Having other matches on FA Cup day is an insult to it's value and tradition. The 3-3 between man utd and palace that day was one of the most exciting football days of my life and i can still remember watching it with my dad on a glorious sunny day with me decked head to toe in the man utd gear that I had got for christmas that year.

I feel bad for what it has become.

oldyouth

Back in the day, I used to black out the room by 8am. I had my stash of goodies ready to see me through the marathon. It didn't matter to me who was in the final but all the better if there was a real underdog against a big team.

Then there were the pictures from the team hotel, the fans setting off in the early hours. celebrity fans from each side, Its A Knockout, penalty competitions. countdown to KO, Abide With Me etc. It's a wonder I didn't do myself a damage holding on to a piss for so long not wanting to miss a thing

The reason the 'magic' isn't the same anymore is the 24hr access to world football we have now. The FA Cup Final promised a rare feast to lovers of the beautiful game. When the fans stop seeing the event as uniquely special, the clubs will follow suit

stovelid

Ah, the overwhelmed priority schedule of supporters of about 3 to 4 clubs.

Newsflash: Maybe it means something to supporters of other clubs.

Revert the champions league to a straight knock out competition for league winners only with a Europa berth for second place and winners of the FA Cup.

Will I Amnt

spockety wrote: »

Wow, what an intriguely timed thread.

Phoenix Park wrote: »

Indeed, i wonder who OP supports :pac:

Why not make a case for why it does matter instead of moaning about the thread.
It's a valid point and it looks like it's been pushed even more into the background with the date and time of kick off.
If you can't make a thread with that title on FA Cup final week when can you make it??

El Inho

What a ridiculous thread.

I'm not just saying this because I support LFC.

Last year for the FA Cup I was collecting the girlfriend from the airport...was a few minutes early so went into arrivals.

Two TV's were showing the match, and people of every nationality were standing there watching it, even some discussing it.

Highlight : another guy waiting for his wife got a clip around the ear because she had to find him, and he had lost track of time.

Moral: The FA cup is massive, and known internationally. The winners will be part of every news broadcast. Just because your team isnt in it, doesnt mean its importance should be questioned.

jacool

cambo2008 wrote: »

If you can't make a thread with that title on FA Cup final week when can you make it??

The facility to make a thread on the FA Cup is available year round.

J Cheever Loophole

El Spearo wrote: »

What a ridiculous thread.

I'm not just saying this because I support LFC.

Last year for the FA Cup I was collecting the girlfriend from the airport...was a few minutes early so went into arrivals.

Two TV's were showing the match, and people of every nationality were standing there watching it, even some discussing it.

Highlight : another guy waiting for his wife got a clip around the ear because she had to find him, and he had lost track of time.

Moral: The FA cup is massive, and known internationally. The winners will be part of every news broadcast. Just because your team isnt in it, doesnt mean its importance should be questioned.

Got ye - so people watching the FA Cup Final live in the arrivals lounge at an airport is conclusive proof of the FA Cup's well being? You must be right of course...I mean why would they watch it when there are so many other things to do at airport arrivals!!

iregk

El Spearo wrote: »

Moral: The FA cup is massive, and known internationally.

Is it really?

I know there are one or two who post on here still living in Germany so maybe they can say different but when I lived there the FA cup wasn't shown anywhere and the winner got as much column space as the winner of the coppa italia, which was a two line mention down the corner of the page. English football wasn't really shown or mentioned anywhere. Very few knew who came 2nd, 3rd or 4th in the prem and even fewer knew who won the cup.

Iago

The FA Cup is huge, I can't wait for Saturday and I'll be glued to it hoping that they find some way to make both teams lose

I love the FA cup and I'd question anyone who regards themselves as a fan of football if they don't. I love the early rounds and you can see the lift it gives the smaller teams, I love the later rounds and the chance of a giant killing, or even just holding their own. I love the romance of somebody from Accrington Stanley running out at Anfield or Old Trafford or Goodison Park and playing against the best in England.

FA Cup final day is only matched by the CL final in the year, and while it may seem "unbusinesslike" I'd rather play and win the FA Cup final than finish 3rd or 4th in the league.

El Inho

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

Got ye - so people watching the FA Cup Final live in the arrivals lounge at an airport is conclusive proof of the FA Cup's well being? You must be right of course...I mean why would they watch it when there are so many other things to do at airport arrivals!!

don't skip over the people talking about it. I doubt there were that many city and stoke fans in arrivals that day but all the men and a few women were taking interest.

the point here is there is something very important to be doing in arrivals, something i nearly forgot about meself!

That my girlfriend walked thorugh the door 30 seconds after a pulled meself away from the footy. I woulda been a dead man :P

But come on, to actually question the importance of the FA cup. It's ludicrous. After league and champions league, its the FA cup. fair enough its easy to argue the right behind that is carling cup, which is a nothing cup really (even though we bet good teams to get their), but there are only so many competitions. Winning any of them is an achievement.

Will I Amnt

jacool wrote: »

The facility to make a thread on the FA Cup is available year round.

How observant of you.
The final is this weekend,some people are only now finding out it's at 5:15 Saturday evening.It's become more relevant this week than it has been the rest of the season but I guess you already know that.

El Inho

iregk wrote: »

Is it really?

I know there are one or two who post on here still living in Germany so maybe they can say different but when I lived there the FA cup wasn't shown anywhere and the winner got as much column space as the winner of the coppa italia, which was a two line mention down the corner of the page. English football wasn't really shown or mentioned anywhere. Very few knew who came 2nd, 3rd or 4th in the prem and even fewer knew who won the cup.

I know nothing about the German league or cup, but im sure they go crazy for it over there.

Will I Amnt

El Spearo wrote: »

I know nothing about the German league or cup, but im sure they go crazy for it over there.

You're kind of contradicting your own point about it bring internationally famous .

abouttobebanned

So, Liverpool fans say it's great cause they're in it. And everyone else says it's crap now cause they're not?

Pool fans, you're fooling yourselves. The FA Cup is nothing like it used to be, for reasons that have already been mentioned on this thread.

El Inho

cambo2008 wrote: »

You're kind of contradicting your own point about it bring internationally famous .

yeah i kinda realised that half way through saying it! :P

so moving swiftly away from that

so do some people genuinely think the FA cup is worth nothing?

The ridiculous statment on the last page describing it as a trinket! Like if you are a footy fan, I just can't see how you can say that about the FA cup. It's a day of football, a day on the beer, for some its a day to watch their team win a cup.

If you don't appreciate this then you are not a football fan proper. I think if everyone thinks about it, regardless of finals, everyone has an FA cup memory, a moment when they cheered because their team did something; magic of the cup and all that.

So if you don't consider this a real achievement, your missing out on a great tournament every season.

(PS im taking note of who is saying this, and then noting if their team makes the final next year)

Will I Amnt

I think a few Chelsea fans opinions wouldn't go amiss here.
If the Champions league was already decided and won by Bayern,would you rather beat Newcastle tonight or Liverpool on Saturday???
If you could only pick one obviously.

DoctorGonzo08

abouttobebanned wrote: »

So, Liverpool fans say it's great cause they're in it. And everyone else says it's crap now cause they're not?

Pool fans, you're fooling yourselves. The FA Cup is nothing like it used to be, for reasons that have already been mentioned on this thread.

I think it is every bit as important, but as you said, those that aren't in it disagree. I think it has been badly handled by the FA in making it more of a sideshow since last year. It is still the oldest cup competition in the world is it not? I for one am looking forward to this years final as it should be a very good game.

Would the disdain for the cup coming from Utd fans be anything to do with Liverpool possibly winning 2 of the 3 domestic trophies when Utd might finish with none? That would make it a successful season for Liverpool would it not?

Will I Amnt

El Spearo wrote: »

The ridiculous statment on the last page describing it as a trinket! Like if you are a footy fan, I just can't see how you can say that about the FA cup. It's a day of football, a day on the beer, for some its a day to watch their team win a cup.

If you don't appreciate this then you are not a football fan proper. I think if everyone thinks about it, regardless of finals, everyone has an FA cup memory, a moment when they cheered because their team did something; magic of the cup and all that.

So if you don't consider this a real achievement, your missing out on a great tournament every season.

(PS im taking note of who is saying this, and then noting if their team makes the final next year)

Make no bones about it,I would love for United to be there on Saturday.
I want them to win everything they possibly can.The argument here is priority and how the FA Cup has slipped down the pecking order.

Fr Tod Umptious

I think we should survey 10 year old boys for their opionions, as most of the posts here are about nostilga

DoctorGonzo08

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think we should survey 10 year old boys for their opionions, as most of the posts here are about nostilga

In every other thread in here history beats all in the game of rock, paper, scissors, history. Why should it be left out here when it is a valid reason for its importance?

Turtyturd

cambo2008 wrote: »

How observant of you.
The final is this weekend,some people are only now finding out it's at 5:15 Saturday evening.It's become more relevant this week than it has been the rest of the season but I guess you already know that.

TBH the thread would have been better timed back in January when the 3rd round started and all the major teams were involved.

El Inho

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

In every other thread in here history beats all in the game of rock, paper, scissors, history. Why should it be left out here when it is a valid reason for its importance?

I find you sensible.

See the FA cup is exactly whats wrong with football debates.

If your team doesn't win the debate then the debate dont end!

Turtyturd

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I think we should survey 10 year old boys for their opionions, as most of the posts here are about nostilga

I think with your user name you probably shouldn't be posting about 10 year old boys.

Most football fans will be nostalgic about it.

bullpost

I'd say its a big deal to Kenny Daglish who risked humiliation last night to try to win it.

Benimar

stovelid wrote: »

Ah, the overwhelmed priority schedule of supporters of about 3 to 4 clubs.

Newsflash: Maybe it means something to supporters of other clubs.

Revert the champions league to a straight knock out competition for league winners only with a Europa berth for second place and winners of the FA Cup.

My thoughts exactly.

I will readily admit to being old fashioned here. FA Cup should be at 3pm on Saturday after the season ends.

I also agree that the 'Champions' League should be straight knock-out.

As a fan, I'd rather see my team lift a trophy (even if its the Johnstone Paints cup!) any day over finishing 4th in a league.

I'm fully aware of the financials involved and that its 'better' to finish 4th, but I wouldn't even think of celebrating if Liverpool finished 4th, but I will be delighted if we win on saturday.

It's nothing to do with Liverpool being/not being a 'big' club, its to do with what I think are the messed up priorities of football...surely its better to win something than to 'qualify' for something??

Will I Amnt

Turtyturd wrote: »

TBH the thread would have been better timed back in January when the 3rd round started and all the major teams were involved.

Maybe so but it's just more of a main topic now that it's the week of the final.I can't even remember a thing about the 3rd round,I'd have to use google to find out who we played.
Edit:Lol turns out it was City :eek:
That tells you how much it mattered to me then

mike65

cambo2008 wrote: »

I think a few Chelsea fans opinions wouldn't go amiss here.
If the Champions league was already decided and won by Bayern,would you rather beat Newcastle tonight or Liverpool on Saturday???
If you could only pick one obviously.

You'd have to find them first!

The FA Cup is clearly not what it used to be for all the reasons mentioned but it's still better to win it than lose it (or not even get near the final if it was a target).

Will I Amnt

mike65 wrote: »

The FA Cup is clearly not what it used to be for all the reasons mentioned but it's still better to win it than lose it (or not even get near the final if it was a target).

That pretty much sums it up for me.

stovelid

To be fair, oldyouth made a very good point too.

The sheer volume of available football - online or on TV these days devalues a lot of competitions. I'm old enough to remember the regular diet of football outisde of big once-off games being restricted to match of the day and the big match. The FA cup was a massive event for that generation (70s/80s) and there is certainly nostalgia involved.

It would be a shame though, to see the major domestic cup of any country devalued. Esepcially one with the history of the FA cup. You might say that's nostalgia but what is football if not tradition, history and nostalgia.

jacool

Just had a look at a few club websites.
Some of those clubs are in the final this weekend and more are not!
All list their FA Cup successes side by side with all other successes.
That would tend to suggest that the clubs value the trophy.

People with their nostalgia glasses on probably remember when the FA Cup was one of 4 or 5 live games per year, as opposed to per week nowadays, so it was a big event. I can remember every final from 1974 onwards, but will admit that I haven't watched any of this millennium.

The 80000 fans watching live, plus the millions watching at home, will all be hoping that their side wins, so clearly it means lots to them.
So does it mean anything? Yes it does, just probably less overall.

CSF

To the English, yes. To the global viewer who can access football from almost any league every week, not so much.

Kolido

stovelid wrote: »

Ah, the overwhelmed priority schedule of supporters of about 3 to 4 clubs.

Newsflash: Maybe it means something to supporters of other clubs.

Revert the champions league to a straight knock out competition for league winners only with a Europa berth for second place and winners of the FA Cup.

Priority is the key word here. The FA cup is 3rd to the league and CL.
To win the league gives you the status of best domestic team for the season and to win the CL gives you best European team for the season. Then there is the financial benefit of those comps.
But of course for teams who have no chance of winning those two comp, it is of more importance. This is understandable but you can't critisize the bigger clubs for moving it to 3rd place on their priority list.
However I do think the prestige and excitemnet of cup final day has been lost somewhat with the time and date it is played on now.
As for changing the format of the champions league, that would be criminal, its the best club comp in the world without doubt. It's not about league champs only in name, its about the best teams in Europe. Allowing only league champs in it, you would have a couple of decent teams and a load of crap teams, that would be useless imo.