Dublin bus fare

Pennicus

I am studying in Dublin for almost a year now and I still find it confusing to count stages for Dublin Bus fares. I am using bus number 11 from Ranelagh (bus stop 884) to DCU on Ballymun Road. I used to pay for my journey as for 13 stages journey. But recently I was unlucky to get into the bus with the same driver who is constantly charging off my Leap Card the full price (2.40 instead of 1.90). I tried to explain him that he isn't right, however, he thinks he is right.
Any advice, what should I do? I don't want to pay 50 cent more for each journey

foggy_lad

Pennicus wrote: »

I am studying in Dublin for almost a year now and I still find it confusing to count stages for Dublin Bus fares. I am using bus number 11 from Ranelagh (bus stop 884) to DCU on Ballymun Road. I used to pay for my journey as for 13 stages journey. But recently I was unlucky to get into the bus with the same driver who is constantly charging off my Leap Card the full price (2.40 instead of 1.90). I tried to explain him that he isn't right, however, he thinks he is right.
Any advice, what should I do? I don't want to pay 50 cent more for each journey

It looks like you are going from just after stage 68 Clonskeagh Rd. (Vergemount Rd.) to just before stage 82 Wadelai Park which adds up to 14 stages, Even if the stop numbered 4680 on ballymun road is a stage point you are still at 13 stages.

If you walk to stop 903 on Chelmsford road near chelmsford avenue you should be at 12 stages for the journey to DCU.

AlekSmart

Pennicus wrote: »

I am studying in Dublin for almost a year now and I still find it confusing to count stages for Dublin Bus fares. I am using bus number 11 from Ranelagh (bus stop 884) to DCU on Ballymun Road. I used to pay for my journey as for 13 stages journey. But recently I was unlucky to get into the bus with the same driver who is constantly charging off my Leap Card the full price (2.40 instead of 1.90). I tried to explain him that he isn't right, however, he thinks he is right.
Any advice, what should I do? I don't want to pay 50 cent more for each journey

OK Pennicus,here goes nothing....:)

Consequent upon my employer removing all traces of on-street Fare Stage ID markings,it follows that You,the customer are forced to seek solace on Fora such as Boards.

Now,in the interests of accuracy lets be certain of our Bus Stops in question.

From,884 Sandford Road..?

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/RTPI/Sources-of-Real-Time-Information/?searchtype=map&searchquery=%2853.319989,-6.2442,884%29

To,4680 Opp DCU..?

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/RTPI/Sources-of-Real-Time-Information/?searchtype=map&searchquery=%2853.384968,-6.265332,4680%29

If these are the stops in question,then the corrrect fare is found by subtracting your boarding stage number,in this case 68 Vergemount Rd from your departing stage number,in this case Stage 82 Wadelai Park.

This giveth you 14 Stages,for which your Driver,quite correctly,charged you the €2.40 Leapcard Fare.

You are doubly inconvienced by both Boarding and alighting between Fare Stage Points,therefore being charged from the preceeding boarding stage (68) to the succeeding (following) exit stage (82).

However,by far and away the greatest inconvienence to you,and to many DB Drivers who have NEVER even seen a Fare Stage Marking,is the total lack of information which could allow a customer,such as yourself to make an informed decision to reduce their fare by the simple expedient of walking to the next Bus Stop and thus save 45c.

The corporate decision to delete as much relevant information from it's published timetables is to be regretted and I feel is totally counter to the principles of clear,concise and accurate public information as required by customers.

For example Stage 81,which is Ballymun Road (Glasnevin Tennis Club) is now described on the Timetable Sheet as simply Ballymun Road,which as many folk are aware continues all the way up to the fringes of Dublin Airport !!

So,sadly for the OP it's perhaps not the result hoped for,but at least it does give Pennicus time to slip in an After-Eight on the next Leapcard transaction....?

cson

I always just tell the driver the fare I want on the leap. Not the correct procedure but I've only ever been asked once [Dublin Airport] where my destination was. Just saves both me and the driver hassle when I know the correct fare for my journey.

And further, I'd hazard an educated guess that a lot of drivers don't know the exact fare stage points and rather have a more general rough idea of how far a certain fare should take you.

Cookie_Monster

has anybody actually every gotten in touch with DB about how to work them out etc?
Or is there just a standard, check the website to work it out type response to queries?

Victor

I asked them what distance a stage was and they said it was based historically on tram stops. I was fobbed off when I asked how they calculated stages in new areas.

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

has anybody actually every gotten in touch with DB about how to work them out etc?
Or is there just a standard, check the website to work it out type response to queries?

I emailed them about the fare stages and their response was to tell the driver your destination and the driver will tell you the fare issue the correct ticket, I don't believe it for a second!!

AlekSmart

cson wrote: »

I always just tell the driver the fare I want on the leap. Not the correct procedure but I've only ever been asked once [Dublin Airport] where my destination was. Just saves both me and the driver hassle when I know the correct fare for my journey.

And further, I'd hazard an educated guess that a lot of drivers don't know the exact fare stage points and rather have a more general rough idea of how far a certain fare should take you.

Cson,you need have no fear about the educated nature of your guessing.

Dublin Bus purports to operate a Fare-Stage based charging system.

This is the basic element of all that follows on from that.

Since the company quite deliberately removed all traces of on-street Fare Stage markings from it's customer facing infrastructure,the system has therefore been operating on a guesstimate basis.

However,moves are afoot to introduce Automatic Stage Updating via the GPS system in the near future,which will,in true Irish style,solve most of the problem whilst creating some more.

Automating the Fare-Stage updating without commensurately identifying the actual Fare Stage locations on-street is a waste of time and respources.

I can guarantee that the new automated Stage Locations will,in some (Many ?) cases,not conform to customers or drivers long held opinions of where the individal stage points are.

Absolute deleriction of managerial function of the highest grade....some Letraset Figures,a Van,a Stepladder and the (self Inflicted) Problem is solved (TOTALLY) for EVERYBODY.

Sometimes,it's the simplest solutions which work best !!!

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Cson,you need have no fear about the educated nature of your guessing.

Dublin Bus purports to operate a Fare-Stage based charging system.

This is the basic element of all that follows on from that.

Since the company quite deliberately removed all traces of on-street Fare Stage markings from it's customer facing infrastructure,the system has therefore been operating on a guesstimate basis.

However,moves are afoot to introduce Automatic Stage Updating via the GPS system in the near future,which will,in true Irish style,solve most of the problem whilst creating some more.

Automating the Fare-Stage updating without commensurately identifying the actual Fare Stage locations on-street is a waste of time and respources.

I can guarantee that the new automated Stage Locations will,in some (Many ?) cases,not conform to customers or drivers long held opinions of where the individal stage points are.

Absolute deleriction of managerial function of the highest grade....some Letraset Figures,a Van,a Stepladder and the (self Inflicted) Problem is solved (TOTALLY) for EVERYBODY.

Sometimes,it's the simplest solutions which work best !!!

This automatic stage updating will be just like the leap card in Dublin bus hands, another way to overcharge customers using technology without them even knowing! Bring back the conductors with the big machines and cwt of change and two yards of paper ticket for one and two halves into town!

bk

It is crazy that if you plan a journey using the journey planner on the Dublin Bus website and app, that it doesn't automatically tell you the number of stages and the cost of an adult, child ticket, etc.

They most have all the data already and it would be trivial to implement.

Personally I think the whole ticketing system in Dublin needs to be completely overhauled and vastly simplified.

I'm more and more convinced the Amsterdam system could work best and would satisfy all companies need. The Amsterdam system would involve:

- Tag on and tag off on the bus
- You pay the base fare (e.g. 80c) when you first get on the bus/dart/luas
- You pay a lower fare for each km you travel (e.g. 15c per km)
- If you get off a bus and on another bus or dart/luas etc. within 30 minutes, you don't pay the base fare again, instead you just continue to pay the per km fare.
- Note the per km can differ on different modes of transport or companies.

I really think this could be the ideal solution for everyone in Dublin.

- It should be possible to work out and set the base and per km fare in such a way that there is no lose in the fare box when you move to this system.
- Customers would feel it is more fare as they are paying exactly for the distance they traveled, unlike with a flat fare where those on shorter journeys feel they are subsidisng people on long journeys. And non of this random how long is a stage bs.
- It promotes multimodal travel, people won't feel punished if they have to take multiple bus or train journeys.
- The per km cost allows for flexibility to offer different things, for instance off peak discounts (e.g. 10c per km instead of a normal 20c per km), or to have a lower per km fee where a bus and luas directly compete and you want to promote one over the other.

Really I think it would be a perfect system to solve all our ticketing problems.

Pennicus

Thanks for all responses! I think the greatest idea is just to start using again Travel 90 card. Leap Card fails, at least for me.

AlekSmart

Pennicus wrote: »

Thanks for all responses! I think the greatest idea is just to start using again Travel 90 card. Leap Card fails, at least for me.

A big +1 to that idea pennicus as the T90 remains a very handy piece of public transport kit,sadly undiscovered by many.

Would a 5 or 30 Day Student Rambler not offer you better usability ...?

Green Diesel

Leap card is pretty useless for students using Dublin Bus (unless you're going a short distance).

I get the 30 day student rambler which works out as €2.86 a day, (and days don't need to be consecutive) and allows me to use an expresso buses and then another bus each way.

Alternative payment methods would cost:
Cash: €4.10 (66x) + €2.15 each way = €12.50
Leap: €3.75 + €1.95 each way = €10.80
Travel 90 card = €2.15 each way = €4.30

Even driving my 2litre turbo petrol car which gets ~30mpg the 40miles round trip works out cheaper than the Leap Fare!

foggy_lad

Green Diesel wrote: »

Leap card is pretty useless for students using Dublin Bus (unless you're going a short distance).

I get the 30 day student rambler which works out as €2.86 a day, (and days don't need to be consecutive) and allows me to use an expresso buses and then another bus each way.

Alternative payment methods would cost:
Cash: €4.10 (66x) + €2.15 each way = €12.50
Leap: €3.75 + €1.95 each way = €10.80
Travel 90 card = €2.15 each way = €4.30

Even driving my 2litre turbo petrol car which gets ~30mpg the 40miles round trip works out cheaper than the Leap Fare!

Leap card is pretty useless for most people who are going longer distances and who can and should buy weekly/monthly tickets which will also allow they travel on other services throughout the days they are using them

Says a lot about it when it is cheaper to drive in than use the Leap Card!

Victor

Green Diesel wrote: »

Leap card is pretty useless for students using Dublin Bus (unless you're going a short distance).

I get the 30 day student rambler which works out as €2.86 a day, (and days don't need to be consecutive) and allows me to use an expresso buses and then another bus each way.

Alternative payment methods would cost:
Cash: €4.10 (66x) + €2.15 each way = €12.50
Leap: €3.75 + €1.95 each way = €10.80
Travel 90 card = €2.15 each way = €4.30

Even driving my 2litre turbo petrol car which gets ~30mpg the 40miles round trip works out cheaper than the Leap Fare!

At the moment, Leap is designed for occasional users. Until other products can be loaded on to it, it does not suit people who use public transport every day.

Aard

bk wrote: »

- Tag on and tag off on the bus
- You pay the base fare (e.g. 80c) when you first get on the bus/dart/luas
- You pay a lower fare for each km you travel (e.g. 15c per km)
- If you get off a bus and on another bus or dart/luas etc. within 30 minutes, you don't pay the base fare again, instead you just continue to pay the per km fare.
- Note the per km can differ on different modes of transport or companies.

After running some numbers based on the 46a route, a very rough version that corresponds to DB's current cash fares would be a:
€1.30 base fare
plus €0.15 per km (rounded to one decimal place)

The distance is as the crow flies, so customers aren't penalised for meandering routes. (This is done in Denmark, afaik.) Calculating distances to the next 100m shouldn't be difficult. (Netherlands round it to 50m iirc.)

Of course, this would be on a smart card, so the base fare would probably be more like €0.95 and the per-km fare about €0.14.

I tried it for some routes I'm used to, and it's fairly accurate.