Bus Coach in Ireland Versus National Express

bk

While bus coach travel has come on leaps and bounds in the last 4 years, in particular with all the new express, non stop services, it still has a very long way to go in Ireland.

I thought it would be instructive to compare National Express with Bus Eireann and the other private coach companies in Ireland.

National Express is the equivalent of BE in the UK. It operates intercity bus coach services all across the UK. It was formally a nationalised bus company, similar to BE, but was privatised back in the 80's.

- 100% of National Express buses will be wheel chair accessible by 2013.
- All intercity buses come with large, accessible toilets.
- All buses are designed for the mobility impaired, with even floor and no steps once onboard. The toilets are at the back of the bus and not down any stairs.
- All buses have fully leather, reclining seats.
- Most if not all buses seems to have back of the seat mesh holders and folding tables with ring for coffee mugs.
- Alcohol tester before the driver can start the engine.

NE introduced the first of these new standard of bus coach back in 2005!

Now lets look at us Bus Eireann, they recently bought shiny new buses, which don't have an onboard toilet, don't have back of seat mesh holders or folding tables. Seat's only half leather and they don't recline. I'm not even sure if they are wheelchair accessible.

Genius, so BE are basically over 7 years behind NE!

And then just look at their websites, the BE website has to be one of the worst designed transport website ever, while NE have one of the very best.

BE's site is truly embarrassing.

I've mentioned BE here, however some of these criticisms also apply to private operators, to a greater or lesser degree.

Here is what the ideal coach bus should offer:

- Wheelchair accessible
- Toilet on board, preferably similar to the large NE style one at the back of the bus, not down some steps.
- Free wifi
- Power at every seat
- Folding tables
- Mesh back of seat pocket
- Leather reclining seats

The ironoic thing is, most of the above items (excluding toilet) would probably cost almost little or nothing to add to the new buses BE bought.

foggy_lad

To be fair to Bus Eireann and the comparison National Express do all the major routes covering cities and large towns but Bus Eireann also cover every small town, village, hamlet, crossroads and dog box the length and breath of the country even if only once or twice a week for many destinations. What rural or even regional services do national express offer?

bk

foggy_lad wrote: »

What rural or even regional services do national express offer?

They operate every type of service, including trains, trams and extensive stopping services and even city bus services.

Procrastastudy

I will never get over pitching up to Busaras one Sunday morning to buy a ticket to Newbridge for the first bus - having seen what time it stops there on the website.

Fully of naiveity I asked for a return to Newbride and went to hand the girl my money.

"It only stops there to pick people up" came the reply.

A small stuned silence later I run though the scenario.. more thinking out loud.

"So the bus goes though Newbridge, stops in Newbridge but I can't get off it"

"Yes thats right" came the reply as if it was clearly obvious why.

Today I drive...

The biggest thing missing from BE though is a song about them.

bk

So it turns out that all coach buses in the UK must be fully accessible by 2015, due to legislation in the UK.

We could benefit from similar legislation here in Ireland.

Cookie_Monster

bk wrote: »

We could benefit from similar legislation here in Ireland.

no, a tiny percentage of people can benefit versus substancial addional cost to everyone else involved.

Here is what the ideal coach bus should offer:

- Wheelchair accessible pointless kneeling to the PC bridgade, PT is about moving masses cheaply and quickly, pandering to minorities like this is very cost inefficient
- Toilet on board, preferably similar to the large NE style one at the back of the bus, not down some steps. would be nice but not really needed, no where in IRL has long enough routes to justify it, any longer routes have stops for presicly this purpose already, which give the additional benefit of being able to get off the bus for a smoke / stretch your legs / go to shop
- Free wifi again nice, but outside the core objective of PT and I'd rather see funds put into extra buses or staff to run them
- Power at every seat lol, never gonna happen, it's a bus not a power plant
- Folding tables costly to maintain with little real world benefit, no one is going to decide to get / not get a bus because of a folding table
- Mesh back of seat pocket easy and cheap to do but will just get filled up with rubbish and increase cleaning turnaround time
- Leather reclining seats needless expense and personally I find leather a lot less comfortable, it's always to hot or cold. as for reclining you'd have to add additional space between seat to allow for reclining and not crushing people knees. Anybody around 6ft already has a tight enough fit on most Irish buses / coaches

Victor

bk, are you being selective? City buses here are generally a lot more up to date than the UK average.

Cookie_Monster, Cork-Dublin is non-stop with Aircoach. 3 hours is too much to expect up to 50 people to hold.

bk

Cookie_Monster, the new BE buses have both free wifi and power at every seat. So adding the folding table and mesh pockets would have cost them almost nothing.

I raised this thread to point out how ridiculous some of the excuses I've heard over the last few weeks for the inferiority of BE's service and you have exactly proven my point.

- Folding table might break and need replacing!! Yet I've never seen a broken Irish Rail or airline folding table and their are easy to replace anyway. And now we find almost every coach in the UK has them. Maintenance is a very sad excuse. They are very much a convenience to people who want to work or play or eat on a bus for the three hours.

- Mesh pocket, needs to be cleaned, aww, isn't that the job of the driver anyway, I assume the driver walks through the bus after every trip and does a basic clean out of the seats. Having to check mesh pockets is hardly going to add any time now in fairness is it?

- No toilets, because they are an insurance issue with people walking about during driving and an environmental issue due to the disposal of waste. Yet now we find almost every coach in the UK has them, on top of GoBus and Citylink here and even BE themselves via Eurolines, without any insurance or environmental issues.

It again strikes me that anything that might benefit a customer but slightly inconvenience a driver is avoided at all costs by BE. Just seems to be the same old same old.

Procrastastudy

bk wrote: »

Cookie_Monster, the new BE buses have both free wifi and power at every seat. So adding the folding table and mesh pockets would have cost them almost nothing.

I raised this thread to point out how ridiculous some of the excuses I've heard over the last few weeks for the inferiority of BE's service and you have exactly proven my point.

- Folding table might break and need replacing!! Yet I've never seen a broken Irish Rail or airline folding table and their are easy to replace anyway. And now we find almost every coach in the UK has them. Maintenance is a very sad excuse. They are very much a convenience to people who want to work or play or eat on a bus for the three hours.

- Mesh pocket, needs to be cleaned, aww, isn't that the job of the driver anyway, I assume the driver walks through the bus after every trip and does a basic clean out of the seats. Having to check mesh pockets is hardly going to add any time now in fairness is it?

- No toilets, because they are an insurance issue with people walking about during driving and an environmental issue due to the disposal of waste. Yet now we find almost every coach in the UK has them, on top of GoBus and Citylink here and even BE themselves via Eurolines, without any insurance or environmental issues.

It again strikes me that anything that might benefit a customer but slightly inconvenience a driver is avoided at all costs by BE. Just seems to be the same old same old.

Folding tables are a liability in an accident - hence why on airlines you have to fold them up during take off and landing.

Mesh pockets end up with stuff left in and a load of hassle - You stole my iPhone etc. A bag of some description owned by the passenger does the same job.

Reclining seats - Ryan air absolved themselves of all sins in my eyes the day they removed reclining seats! There is always some idiot sat in front of you if you're tall who insists on putting the seat back. As for making them leather I don't think that is well thought out.

Sockets can be another issue as regards children playing with them especially as the become worn and need frequent inspection. I'd live with that one though.

bk

Jesus wept, the excuses are hilarious, "Will anyone think of the children!!!!" :rolleyes:

Procrastastudy

Someone has to or you end up paying more for you ticket because of insurance payouts. The more maintenance you pile on the more likely it is that a bus is out of action.

Free wifi is a bit redundant these days - almost everyone has data on their phones.

bk

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Someone has to or you end up paying more for you ticket because of insurance payouts. The more maintenance you pile on the more likely it is that a bus is out of action.

Insurance? So tell me why isn't it a problem for National Express or GoBUs or CityLink?

Sigh, you really think a broken folding table is going to put a coach out of service!!!

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Free wifi is a bit redundant these days - almost everyone has data on their phones.

No it isn't, it is becoming standard on intercity services of both coach and rail across Europe.

The reason being these systems normally have much larger antennae and usually connect simultaneously to two or more networks. So you end up getting a much stronger and more consistent service then you do via 3G when going through rural areas.

LXFlyer

bk I've said it before and I'll say it again. Why don't you:

1) Start dealing directly with the bus companies on these issues rather than pointlessly posting complaints about them here.

2) If you are that unhappy with what the bus companies are doing, get some likeminded individuals to work with you and set up your own coach business - all I read here is moans about the companies not delivering what you want.

It is frankly becoming a broken record.

Procrastastudy

Well BK one thing I will point out is your tone doesn't really smack of a reasoned argument, but to be fair I'm quite flippant as well and so I guess I can't really comment :rolleyes:

Firstly folding tables aren't a great idea for the reasons mentioned. A broken folding table does put an airline seat out of action just for your information. Do I think it would put a bus out of action? No. Would it generate unnecessary cleaning? Yes.

Do I think a socket that has been ripped off/burned by a lighter/had stuff jammed in to it by some bored knacker would? Yes I do.

As for the other companies listed I have no idea about their insurance. I would assume the economies of scale help. I can only go on UK insurance v Irish insurance for domestic customers which is much lower in the UK.

Unfortunately not everyone on public transport is someone of your obvious wit, charm and sophistication. The lowest common denominator has to be considered.

popebenny16

i was on a brand new BE iritzar tri-axle for a few hours yesterday.

The half leather seats recliined - in fact every coach in BEi have used since the mid 1990s have had reclining seats. Having full leather seats is a matter of indivdual choice, i find half leather more comfy in a car or bus.

There was no toilet, we stopped in portlaoise after an hour of driving for that.

it wasnt wheelchair accessable (as far as i could see)

it didnt have little tables or netting, but I have been on BE coaches before whcih had.

It has w-fi

The problem i think is that NE in the UK can afford to go to scania or whoever and have them build a varient suitable to them as they would buy a lot of buses. BE on the other hand get whatever standars bus that is available at the time. The bus yesterday was pretty amazing, and everyone getting off told the driver that. The fact that BE have bought buses with all the things you have mentioned in the past shows that when available they can get them.

the problem i guess is that the BE fleet is too big to replace at once due to cutbacks, and too small to make massive demands on builders.

LXFlyer

Good post popebenny - looking at photos of the SE coach it appears that it is wheelchair accessible with the lift installed.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

bk I've said it before and I'll say it again. Why don't you:

1) Start dealing directly with the bus companies on these issues rather than pointlessly posting complaints about them here.

It isn't pointless to talk about it out in the open here. It is important for us to discuss these things out in the open. These companies do read these forums and take onboard the feedback.

I've been doing the same for years in the broadband industry and my feedback has very much been taken on board there. I've even been quoted by journalists from posts here on boards.

I also feed this feedback directly to the companies in question and others in power.

lxflyer wrote: »

2) If you are that unhappy with what the bus companies are doing, get some likeminded individuals to work with you and set up your own coach business - all I read here is moans about the companies not delivering what you want.

It is frankly becoming a broken record.

For ages you were busy telling me that there was no market for direct non stop services to Cork, that if there was, why hadn't someone else already started one and that I should start one myself.

Well in the end we have seen how that played out, Aircoach have launched their service and GoBus are preparing theirs. We are seeing direct services popping up all over the place.

Frankly you were wrong then and you are wrong now.

It is important that we as customers, call for the best possible services.

bk

popebenny16 wrote: »

The problem i think is that NE in the UK can afford to go to scania or whoever and have them build a varient suitable to them as they would buy a lot of buses.

....

the problem i guess is that the BE fleet is too big to replace at once due to cutbacks, and too small to make massive demands on builders.

Good point, it is true that NE do have their own standard design spec that, a number of the bus companies now build too. But there is no reason why BE couldn't take advantage of this and purchase the same spec too.

It is great that BE have shiny new coaches, that include many of the features that I mentioned, but it is also disappointing that they didn't go that extra step further and also include the tables, mesh and toilets in these new coaches.

So close, yet so far.

bk

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

As for the other companies listed I have no idea about their insurance. I would assume the economies of scale help. I can only go on UK insurance v Irish insurance for domestic customers which is much lower in the UK.

GoBus and CityLink are Irish companies, with Irish insurance and GoBus is a pretty small company, so no economies of scale here.

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

It isn't pointless to talk about it out in the open here. It is important for us to discuss these things out in the open. These companies do read these forums and take onboard the feedback.

I've been doing the same for years in the broadband industry and my feedback has very much been taken on board there. I've even been quoted by journalists from posts here on boards.

I also feed this feedback directly to the companies in question and others in power.



For ages you were busy telling me that there was no market for direct non stop services to Cork, that if there was, why hadn't someone else already started one and that I should start one myself.

Well in the end we have seen how that played out, Aircoach have launched their service and GoBus are preparing theirs. We are seeing direct services popping up all over the place.

Frankly you were wrong then and you are wrong now.

It is important that we as customers, call for the best possible services.

I never said there was no market - I said it was possible that the operators did not consider that it was viable. There is a significant difference. I also said at the time we didn't know whether that was the case as we did not know who had applied for what. As it turns out they have started services.

Please do not accuse me of making statements that I did not.

Perhaps I am being over-critical, but you have in your posts a tendancy to repeat the same gripes over and over again - that frankly is what is becoming boring.

Procrastastudy

bk wrote: »

It is great that BE have shiny new coaches, that include many of the features that I mentioned, but it is also disappointing that they didn't go that extra step further and also include the tables, mesh and toilets in these new coaches.

So close, yet so far.

All of that would require cleaning more often - the drivers obviously have a good union.

bk

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

All of that would require cleaning more often - the drivers obviously have a good union.

That is my point, it seems to be driven by employee wants, rather then customer needs and that isn't right.

Procrastastudy

Needs to be balanced - management of the services industry tend to take the mickey and customers tend to have unrealistic expectations.

LeftBlank

bk wrote: »

Well in the end we have seen how that played out, Aircoach have launched their service and GoBus are preparing theirs. We are seeing direct services popping up all over the place.

Ah now. Just because Aircoach have been running a direct service for a couple of weeks does not mean that there is a market for this service.

bk

LeftBlank wrote: »

Ah now. Just because Aircoach have been running a direct service for a couple of weeks does not mean that there is a market for this service.

95% full on Sunday at 6pm for a newly launched service with zero advertising seems pretty good to me.

I think anyone who says there isn't a market for a direct service to cork is frankly crazy.

Galway can sustain two bi-hourly stopping coach service, two hourly direct coach services and an hourly train service, yet Cork doesn't have the market for even one direct service, bull.

Any direct service from Cork will steal passengers from the train (just as fast and a quarter of the price) and the two existing stopping services (why spend 4h 30mins in a bus when it could be just 3hours).

Anyone who can't see a big market for such a service is deluding themselves. I really hope such people don't get to make any business decisions.

LeftBlank

bk wrote: »

Anyone who can't see a big market for such a service is deluding themselves. I really hope such people don't get to make any business decisions.

I'm not saying there isn't a market, I'm saying that it has not been proven yet.

parsi

We've tray tables in the rear seats of the car and they must be folded when it's in motion so there must be issues over having these.

Don't really agree with the seatback pockets - they are lairs for rubbish, gunge and whatever else. I don't see a driver getting down on his hands and knees scrubbing out seatbacks especially when their working hours are tight enough as it is.

I do wonder can the rockbottom fares support such highly specced buses in the long term.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

We've tray tables in the rear seats of the car and they must be folded when it's in motion so there must be issues over having these.

Don't really agree with the seatback pockets - they are lairs for rubbish, gunge and whatever else. I don't see a driver getting down on his hands and knees scrubbing out seatbacks especially when their working hours are tight enough as it is.

I do wonder can the rockbottom fares support such highly specced buses in the long term.

Trays can cause serious injury in the event of collisions, and people putting their rubbish directly on the floor of the buses is better for drivers/cleaners who can just sweep out the bus and will not have to check and empty behind every seat. Better again if there was a couple of points on a bus where bags could be put for rubbish and let people be a bit more helpful in keeping the bus clean.

Vic_08

bk wrote: »

While bus coach travel has come on leaps and bounds in the last 4 years, in particular with all the new express, non stop services, it still has a very long way to go in Ireland.

I thought it would be instructive to compare National Express with Bus Eireann and the other private coach companies in Ireland.

National Express is the equivalent of BE in the UK. It operates intercity bus coach services all across the UK. It was formally a nationalised bus company, similar to BE, but was privatised back in the 80's.

- 100% of National Express buses will be wheel chair accessible by 2013.
- All intercity buses come with large, accessible toilets.
- All buses are designed for the mobility impaired, with even floor and no steps once onboard. The toilets are at the back of the bus and not down any stairs.
- All buses have fully leather, reclining seats.
- Most if not all buses seems to have back of the seat mesh holders and folding tables with ring for coffee mugs.
- Alcohol tester before the driver can start the engine.

NE introduced the first of these new standard of bus coach back in 2005!

Now lets look at us Bus Eireann, they recently bought shiny new buses, which don't have an onboard toilet, don't have back of seat mesh holders or folding tables. Seat's only half leather and they don't recline. I'm not even sure if they are wheelchair accessible.

Genius, so BE are basically over 7 years behind NE!

And then just look at their websites, the BE website has to be one of the worst designed transport website ever, while NE have one of the very best.

BE's site is truly embarrassing.

I've mentioned BE here, however some of these criticisms also apply to private operators, to a greater or lesser degree.

Here is what the ideal coach bus should offer:

- Wheelchair accessible
- Toilet on board, preferably similar to the large NE style one at the back of the bus, not down some steps.
- Free wifi
- Power at every seat
- Folding tables
- Mesh back of seat pocket
- Leather reclining seats

The ironoic thing is, most of the above items (excluding toilet) would probably cost almost little or nothing to add to the new buses BE bought.

Frankly the comparison between the National Express coach network and BE doesn't stand up. They are very different types of services, NX journeys would be on average much longer with only long distance traffic catered for, most operate on a pre-book system rather than the turn up and go BE.

With a few exceptions all BE expressway services are dual purpose; long-distance inter-city and town to town/village short/medium hop.

You could make a good arguement to say that the BE services on all major interurban routes should be operated more like the NX services with dedicated non-stop higher quality services for only long distance passengers. I would agree with this 100% but from everything that has happened in the last 10 years it doesn't seem to be happening. If this is by design, bad management or both is hard to say but I can tell you it is NOT because of the unions or frontline staff. Most of us are far from happy with the way the company is going in particular the inability to compete on many of the major trunk routes.

Just to clear up some facts for you;

Reclining seats - all coaches since mid 80s

WiFi - all new coaches and buses from 2012 onwards and a gradual roll-out on older fleet.

Power sockets - all new 2012 coaches for both express and commuter are fitted with sockets at selected seats.

Folding Tables - No. They are not an option on all manufacturers coaches and are generally not compatible with standard density recliner seating. Folding tables for reclining seats require a mechanism to keep them level when the seat they are attached to is reclined, a basic plastic flap wouldn't be an issue but would require fixed seats. Which is more desirable; reclining seats or a small table?

Wheelchair accessibility - All buses now in service are low-floor and accessible. All coaches bought since 2007 are equipped with wheelchair lifts. This is in contrast to the majority of Irish operators who have opted not to buy accessible coaches even though they are now available from most manufacturers. JJ Kavanagh, Citylink and GoBus for example have no accessible vehicles at present.

Toilets - with the exception of coaches used for Eurolines, No. For routes that are mostly motorway cruising then toilets are a practical option. The vast majority of BE routes are on N and R roads where encouraging passengers to walk about the coach is not a good idea. Remember that by law where fitted people are required to wear a seatbelt in a moving vehicle, there is definitely a legal and insurance grey area around the use of on-board toilets. Maintenance of the toilets is also an issue, they are not the most robust of equipment in general and I believe at present it has been decided the extra work and downtime involved has been a factor in not fitting them.

Seat back mesh - If as stated the new SE class has none then IMO it is a good thing. They are a useful feature but unfortunately are all too often used as bins. If it was just general litter left in them that would be one thing but it isn't. People routinely dump all kinds of unpleasant items in them that soil both the mesh and the seatbacks. Things such as apple cores, bannana skins, orange peel, half-eaten sandwiches (not in wrappers), leaking coffe cups, milk catrons, yogurt, baby food, soiled nappies (yes, I have found this on several occasions) and pretty much every other thing you could think of that will soil the seat. Consider what would happen if you treated a taxi in this manner; you would most likely be facing a very angry driver demanding 140e for his trouble. Not to mention the fact they are vandal magnets, perfect for a bored scumbag to rip apart on the way home from school.

Cleaning - Generally it is not a part of most BE drivers' job. Cleaning is carried out in the depots alongside fueling and exterior washing. For buses based in substations drivers on certain shifts will have time allocated to clean and fuel buses.

Gonzo

bk wrote: »

Here is what the ideal coach bus should offer:

- Wheelchair accessible
- Toilet on board, preferably similar to the large NE style one at the back of the bus, not down some steps.
- Free wifi
- Power at every seat
- Folding tables
- Mesh back of seat pocket
- Leather reclining seats

This is my own personal experience of BE as it stands right now for my bus route the 109 which serves Dunshaughlin to Dublin....bare in mind ive used National Express near London a few times which is a really good service...

BE 109

- Many bus's have no power at seats
- No tables
- many bus's have no reclining seats
- No Toilets
- If passenger needs to use toilet they have to get off at next stop, use the side of the road, then pay again for the rest of the fare after a long wait before the next bus arrives...it helps to have an empty coke bottle and turn to the side towards window to avoid other passengers from unpleasant sights and personal embarresment...
- There is no guarantee bus will arrive on time especially in the mornings, where crowds of up to 50 people can be expected at any one time where passenger has to phone work and explain reason for delay so that they are not fired from their job. This happens at least once or twice a week.
- Bus's are often overcrowded because not all bus's run and the bus will simply drive past the stop and you have no choice but to wait for the next bus or the one after that. Passengers in Dunshaughlin have sometimes been left stranded for over 2 hours.
- passengers waiting on the 109 from the Blanchardstown Centre slip road can be left waiting for an unseen amount of time especially on a Friday afternoon because the bus's coming from Dublin City Centre are already full to capacity and travel past the slip-road unnoticed. Passengers have to wait ages or phone for a friend or family member to pick them up to bring them home.

-no guides or updates are provided for the passenger to inform them how late the next bus will be, no electronic signage/updates.

with all the above problems they did however fit free wi-fi on all bus's....

/rant over


seriously give us Dublin Bus or a train or at the very least a service that works the way it's meant to...
sorry if this post seems over the top but it's the truth...

oppenheimer1

Victor wrote: »

bk, are you being selective? City buses here are generally a lot more up to date than the UK average.

Cookie_Monster, Cork-Dublin is non-stop with Aircoach. 3 hours is too much to expect up to 50 people to hold.

It isn't non-stop. The "express" stops in a little kip of a service station in Urlingford.

bk

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It isn't non-stop. The "express" stops in a little kip of a service station in Urlingford.

Not the last two times I used it, it went direct Cork-Dublin without any stop.

bk

Vic_08 Thanks for the detailed and pleasant response.

First of all let me point out that my comparison wasn't purely between NE and BE, rather NE and the whole Irish coach industry. Some things apply to BE (no toilets) other things don't apply to BE, but apply to the other private operators (i.e. wheelchair accessible).

Vic_08 wrote: »

You could make a good arguement to say that the BE services on all major interurban routes should be operated more like the NX services with dedicated non-stop higher quality services for only long distance passengers. I would agree with this 100% but from everything that has happened in the last 10 years it doesn't seem to be happening. If this is by design, bad management or both is hard to say but I can tell you it is NOT because of the unions or frontline staff. Most of us are far from happy with the way the company is going in particular the inability to compete on many of the major trunk routes.

Agreed, I think it is madness that BE haven't taken advantage of the new motorways and laid on high quality direct non stop services. Just look at the seeming success of the Belfast route and imagine what they could do to Cork, Galway, Limerick, etc.

It might not happen overnight, but I imagine BE will lose many if not most customers to the new direct services. It already happened in Galway, I can't see why the same won't happen in Limerick and Cork too.

I can't imagine BE management can be truly that incompetent, which would lead me to suspect high level governmental interference, either to reduce the competition with Irish Rail, or to give private operators a chance to build up business as a prelude to privatisation of BE.

Can't think of any other reason why they would so busily ignore the shiny new motorways.

Vic_08 wrote: »

Reclining seats - all coaches since mid 80s

WiFi - all new coaches and buses from 2012 onwards and a gradual roll-out on older fleet.

Power sockets - all new 2012 coaches for both express and commuter are fitted with sockets at selected seats.

Great to see this happening, small, relatively cheap changes that will lead to a much better service.

Vic_08 wrote: »

Folding Tables - No. They are not an option on all manufacturers coaches and are generally not compatible with standard density recliner seating. Folding tables for reclining seats require a mechanism to keep them level when the seat they are attached to is reclined, a basic plastic flap wouldn't be an issue but would require fixed seats. Which is more desirable; reclining seats or a small table?

Well if we are talking the direct non stop services which are max three hours, then I would prefer non reclining seats with a table. I don't think reclining seats are a big deal on shorter journeys, after all Irish Rail don't have them.

However that is personal preference. But isn't it a solved problem in the airline industry, they have tables with reclining seats.

Vic_08 wrote: »

Wheelchair accessibility - All buses now in service are low-floor and accessible. All coaches bought since 2007 are equipped with wheelchair lifts. This is in contrast to the majority of Irish operators who have opted not to buy accessible coaches even though they are now available from most manufacturers. JJ Kavanagh, Citylink and GoBus for example have no accessible vehicles at present.

That is fantastic and really commendable. I feel that legislation like in the UK would be needed to get the private coach companies to follow suit here.

Vic_08 wrote: »

Toilets - with the exception of coaches used for Eurolines, No. For routes that are mostly motorway cruising then toilets are a practical option. The vast majority of BE routes are on N and R roads where encouraging passengers to walk about the coach is not a good idea. Remember that by law where fitted people are required to wear a seatbelt in a moving vehicle, there is definitely a legal and insurance grey area around the use of on-board toilets. Maintenance of the toilets is also an issue, they are not the most robust of equipment in general and I believe at present it has been decided the extra work and downtime involved has been a factor in not fitting them.

Again it seems to come down to BE's non use of the motorways. If your services are stopping, then you don't really need toilets. But I believe BE really should have direct non stop services and that they should have toilets.

That is why I was disappointed with BE's recent new purchases, it tells me that for whatever crazy reason, BE aren't planning on competing with the private companies direct routes on the motorways.

Vic_08 wrote: »

Cleaning - Generally it is not a part of most BE drivers' job. Cleaning is carried out in the depots alongside fueling and exterior washing. For buses based in substations drivers on certain shifts will have time allocated to clean and fuel buses.

This is one area I strongly disagree with, basic cleaning (quick walk through, picking up debris, etc.) and maintenance should be a part of every drivers duties. I think in Ireland we have too much of this "it isn't my job" attitude.

Not all companies and countries have this sort of attitude. I was well impressed in Lidl recently when a liquid detergent leaked on the floor in front of the cashiers line. On seeing this the cashier jumped up from behind her desk, grabbed some kitchen paper and immediately cleaned up the mess. No calling for a cleaner like I often see in other big stores in the past.

Victor

parsi wrote: »

We've tray tables in the rear seats of the car and they must be folded when it's in motion so there must be issues over having these.

In an accident, you can be impaled on it / chopped in two.

I understand tables are a risk in train incidents, but on balance, serious train incidents are much rarer.

Victor

Victor wrote: »

I understand tables are a risk in train incidents, but on balance, serious train incidents are much rarer.

Just out of interest have you any statistics to show that? It's a good while since I heard about any serious incidents in a good few years despite the (I assume) far higher greater number of bus than train journeys made.

foggy_lad

Victor wrote: »

In an accident, you can be impaled on it / chopped in two.

I understand tables are a risk in train incidents, but on balance, serious train incidents are much rarer.

A bus or car can stop its forward motion a lot more violently especially if it hits something like a wall and this impact causes the greater risk of injury from trays while on trains there is less likelihood of the train stopping as suddenly but more chance of the carriage rolling from a derailment and the trays being forced into the closed position by passenger movement, where they would be less likely to cause injury.

corktina

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I will never get over pitching up to Busaras one Sunday morning to buy a ticket to Newbridge for the first bus - having seen what time it stops there on the website.

Fully of naiveity I asked for a return to Newbride and went to hand the girl my money.

"It only stops there to pick people up" came the reply.

A small stuned silence later I run though the scenario.. more thinking out loud.

"So the bus goes though Newbridge, stops in Newbridge but I can't get off it"

"Yes thats right" came the reply as if it was clearly obvious why.

Today I drive...

The biggest thing missing from BE though is a song about them.

Rather than just let this pass, an explanation for that is that this is a long distance coach for ,probably, Cork and picks up all along the route to Newbridge. If it were full of passengers FOR Newbridge, other passengers wishing to board for Cork en route would not be able to. It's a perfectly normal scenario. Other services TO Newbridge would be available no doubt.

bk

foggy_lad wrote: »

A bus or car can stop its forward motion a lot more violently especially if it hits something like a wall and this impact causes the greater risk of injury from trays while on trains there is less likelihood of the train stopping as suddenly but more chance of the carriage rolling from a derailment and the trays being forced into the closed position by passenger movement, where they would be less likely to cause injury.

foggy_lad, that is a bit of a stretch, trains can and often do hit head on.

A bridge collapsing under you would have the same effect.

Finally the trains to Cork mostly have sold, fixed tables, so no they wouldn't be forced closed by the movement of the passengers. Also trains have no seat belts, unlike bus coaches.

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

Rather than just let this pass, an explanation for that is that this is a long distance coach for ,probably, Cork and picks up all along the route to Newbridge. If it were full of passengers FOR Newbridge, other passengers wishing to board for Cork en route would not be able to. It's a perfectly normal scenario. Other services TO Newbridge would be available no doubt.

Like the old 004 route through naas, you could not get off in Naas as it was pick up only.

foggy_lad

bk wrote: »

foggy_lad, that is a bit of a stretch, trains can and often do hit head on.

A bridge collapsing under you would have the same effect.

Finally the trains to Cork mostly have sold, fixed tables, so no they wouldn't be forced closed by the movement of the passengers. Also trains have no seat belts, unlike bus coaches.

The edge on the fixed tables is about two inches thick so it is less likely to cut you in half, they also hold passengers in their seats. Those at seats with folding tables may get thrown about without a fixed table to hold them in place but this movement will help to fold up the tables in front of them.

Procrastastudy

corktina wrote: »

Other services TO Newbridge would be available no doubt.

Not at that time in the morning and if the girl had explained that I wouldn't have had a good pub story to tell for the last few years. If we're keeping this on the BE NE Ireland v UK thing I've never had that happen, or ever heard of if happening in thr UK. It's (semi) logical though.

corktina

it's quite common in The Uk. Rail timetables have references to stops "to set down only" quite routinely. The BE tt should have too presumably.

LXFlyer

It would have done (these buses no longer serve Newbridge, as they go non-stop to Portlaoise).

Newbridge has/had the 126 local service for passengers travelling between Dublin and there.

The 008 picked up only there - the point was to keep the 008 for those who had no other services to choose from and protect it for longer distance travellers.

Any instances of this nowadays are down to the NTA licence.

Procrastastudy

corktina wrote: »

it's quite common in The Uk. Rail timetables have references to stops "to set down only" quite routinely. The BE tt should have too presumably.

Lived in Oxford and all across Scotland - used Oxfordshire Trains and Buses to get around for college, Scottish Trains to get around Scotland for work and from Scotland to Oxfordshire I've never seen a set down only stop once. I'm not saying they dont exist but they must be limited to a certain area or be very rare.

Ahh just relaised - Set Down only is something quite different.

LXFlyer

Pick up only / Set Down only stops are quite common practice for the reasons outlined above.

dowlingm

BE Set down only is hardly new - anyone who's looked to get a bus at The Hurlers, Newlands Cross, Crescent SC, GMIT etc. is familiar with the concept, same with Naas on 007 Dublin-Kilkenny-Cork.

I think IE should apply the same rule to the 1650 Connolly-Central
CON 1520 DRG 1550 DUN 1612 > Belfast
CON 1550 DRG 1646 --ENDS--
CON 1621 DRG 1716 --ENDS--
CON 1650 DRG SKIP DUN 1743 > Belfast
CON 1721 DRG 1813 DUN 1837
Time between Drogheda-Belfast service 3h40m and Drogheda-Dundalk services 2h23m.

If the 1650 stopped in Drogheda at around 1722 to pick up, ticket checkers having screened out chancers at Connolly with RPU issuing fines onboard or at Drogheda Station to anyone who slips through, it would also offer a northward connection from the 1716 arrival serving the commuter belt and a earlier trip home for people wanting to commute to jobs in Drogheda from Dundalk or Newry by rail. It's not like the train wouldn't be slowing down anyway given the restrictions on the Boyne Bridge.

Procrastastudy

Not quite sure how we've got onto set down only - apologies for the initial OT post about Pick Up only. I think the idea of this thread is to compare it to services in the UK rather than look at Ireland in isolation. Not back seat modding just trying to bring it back On topic as it was my fault it got derailed. (ooh thats a bit of an unfortunate phrasing).

popebenny16

Gonzo wrote: »

This is my own personal experience of BE as it stands right now for my bus route the 109 which serves Dunshaughlin to Dublin....
BE 109

- Many bus's have no power at seats
- No tables
- many bus's have no reclining seats
- No Toilets
- If passenger needs to use toilet they have to get off at next stop, use the side of the road, then pay again for the rest of the fare after a long wait before the next bus arrives...it helps to have an empty coke bottle and turn to the side towards window to avoid other passengers from unpleasant sights and personal embarresment...
-

seriously give us Dublin Bus or a train or at the very least a service that works the way it's meant to...
sorry if this post seems over the top but it's the truth...

Are you really looking for reclining seats/tables/toilets on a commuter service??? For a bus that gets from Bus Aras to dunshaughlin in 45 mins???

If thats the case I want BAC to start installing a jacks on the number 16 pronto.

According to the timetable http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1318429077-109.pdf there is a bus every 15 mins in the am and back in the evening rush hour too. so if you are waiting two hours there must be fairly serious trouble going on.

Think I'll opt for the "over the top" option on your post. Sorry.