Lost in Translation

LegacyUser

Guys,

I need your help.

I am in a relationship about a year now. He is 28, I am 25. I am Irish, and he is from Argentina.

In most areas of the relationship, we are going well. He makes me laugh, sex is good, common interests and values.

But there is one thing that is getting bigger and bigger a problem every day now, and as much I am trying to control it, I can't seem to.

He moved to Ireland 2 years ago, and when he moved here, he had no English - so all in all, he is doing very well. But, there are so many times that he doesn't understand what I say. I am a kindergarten teacher, so I am used to saying things in a way that are simple - but it's becoming tiresome having to prethink what I will say, and reword it to make it simpler for him. We can't really have many in depth conversations about topics like politics, or current affairs.. and even sometimes when I go to explain my emotions, things become diluted. I am starting to miss just being able to say whatever is on my mind.

We went to Argentina to meet his family, and they had no English at all. So for 3 weeks we were there, I was lost, and got so upset that I couldn't communicate with his family. I have tried learning Spanish, and I have a little, but of course, not enough to really make ties. Most of our common friends are on his side, and are from Argentina too, and a lot of times we will all begin by speaking English, but it dissolves into Spanish after a while, and I am lost. I miss out on so many "in jokes" that can't be translated.

At the start, it was actually a novelty - I would help him a lot, we would laugh about it, and we would learn together. But now, it's becoming... just hard for me. I feel terrible saying this... but I don't know if I have the energy to always have this "gap" for the rest of my life. If we have kids, I couldn't bear that his parents would only talk to the child in Spanish, and I wouldn't understand. I know I can make more of an effort to learn, but neither of us will ever be so fluent in each others languages that it will be even 70% natural.

Could you advise please?

prinz

LIT wrote: »

I know I can make more of an effort to learn, but neither of us will ever be so fluent in each others languages that it will be even 70% natural.

Why not? Surely a big thing you should both be working on is learning each other's language? You're not going to be fluent overnight, or even in a year but are either of you take structured classes? You said you have "tried learning Spanish".. perhaps you should try harded tbh and him too.

On another point, if you can't have meaningful conversations on serious topics I'd suggest you both start taking language classes asap, and have those conversations otherwise there's only trouble ahead.

LegacyUser

Yep have been there ... I went out with a Spanish guy for years and to be honest it did become trying to have to explain jokes etc. His English was very good but not everyone is cut out for dealing with a language barrier.

Neyite

Honestly, I think you are not really being fair. He has made a massive effort to speak english, whereas you have given up learning any spanish at all - not even to communicate with his family. Do you want a future with him? if you dont, then why bother? But you cant look down on him for not being fluent in a second language when its something you yourself cannot bring yourself to work on.

I think it would be great for any child to have two languages from birth. My father used to speak to us in Irish and neither my mother nor her family spoke it, but by him doing so, it aided our education. A sibling has a spouse who had a non-english first language, and they went and lived in a foreign country for a year so the children are practically bilingual - a massive boost when you think of future exams and points - there is already a subject there in the bag.

Grandparents talking to a small child will use basic, small words anyway, irrespective of which language they use, therefore if you know the basics, you would understand the gist of it.

Of course there are Irish-isms that he wont get, just as there are spanish or latino things you wont get. I would see it as a way to learn more about his culture, and therefore him.

Procrastastudy

Rosetta Stone - had some sucess with it learning Arabic also the Thomas something method - can be good can be bad I get them from the Library at GCD but I wouldn't pay for them as they are a bit hit and miss.

There are also pleanty of conversation groups around the place - I know that might seem a little redundant in your case but you never know

shinikins

LIT wrote: »

neither of us will ever be so fluent in each others languages that it will be even 70% natural.

This stands out for me. Why not??
I have an Aunt who went to Germany aged 19 to marry the man she had fallen in love with on a trip she had gone on without one word of German. She now teaches English in her local University, her children are bilingual, and will frequently have conversations in both languages at once. It's amazing to watch them in action, my Uncle will say something in German, Aunt will reply in English, and my cousins chop and change mid sentence.

Spanish isn't a difficult language to learn, and you have a native speaker to help you out when you get stuck. He's made the effort to learn English, I'm sure you can do the same for his native tongue.

LegacyUser

Hi OP

so i have plenty of experience in this department; many years in a relationship with an argentinian and a very successful LTR now with a spaniard.

Being Irish, we think its our right to speak english in all situations - mainly because other nationalities tend to make the effort - whether you are backpacking in a hostel in Cambodia, Vienna or Venezuela - the common language is usually english. This leads us to getting a bit lazy and we forget that those people miss out on our in-jokes and our 'craic' but they dont give up - they keep on learning, and one day, the foreigners can have the craic with us in our own language! i'm sure you know examples of this from your foreign friends already...it is impressive.

But this doesnt happen by accident. People watch films, read books, newspapers, listen to music in english. They download films with subtitles to learn grammar - they attend classes and get certificates, they work as aupairs minding children and washing dishes because they dont have the level of english to do what their foreign degrees qualify them to do. And you know what? i think they might be the better for it! When they do get the level, have the craic down the pub and land that wonderful job they so deserve...they really understand that communication is something you do work for.

I am doing this now in Spanish. I remind myself every day that I can do this as i have seen thousands of polish, russian, chinese, argentinian people do this in Ireland. If they can do it - I can do it. My boyfriend helps me with spanish, I help him with english and we have excellent communication - but it takes time and EFFORT to learn a language.

so buckle down to those spanish books. Book a language course in spain (closer than argentina!) for yourself for a few weeks practice in the summer. Agree to speak certain languages on certain days to each other. Help him too - download films with subtitles in english - this really works i promise...and is more enjoyable than hours with a grammar book. Research english classes he could take to get qualified properly and make a few suggestions or give him a present of a course...

If you want a personal online 'private' tutor for spanish - i can put you in touch with one.

In short - relationships and communication are hard work. You get out what you put in!
all the best

Peanut2011

Neyite wrote: »

Honestly, I think you are not really being fair. He has made a massive effort to speak english, whereas you have given up learning any spanish at all - not even to communicate with his family. Do you want a future with him? if you don't, then why bother? But you cant look down on him for not being fluent in a second language when its something you yourself cannot bring yourself to work on.

OP, I must say I completely disagree with this post.

Him making a massive effort to speak English should not be in any way a commendable thing. He is in the country where English is spoken and he needs to have it for every day use.

The problem will be the jokes, the humour as these are sometimes very hard to translate. Slight play on words and you will have a joke where he might not understand.

Before going any further the question for you two should be "Is this us for the future?"

Does he intend on staying here or does he plan to go back? What would you do if he wanted to go back? Would you go with him?

Once you are clear on that, the language is something that can be worked on as long as you both are willing to work on it. Any language is easier to learn if you are in the environment and you must speak it.

The relationship is quite fresh so to say, you might want to consider if he is on the same level as you and where your future is going. Only than will you be able to judge and decide if the language difference and effort required to learn it is worth it.

What ever you do or decide to do I wish you every luck and happiness.

There's a website that has recently been released (though I think it's still in the beta testing stages) called duolingo, where you can actually learn an entirely new language for free, through translation of texts and speech recognition. Right now they offer English, German and Spanish, but more and more languages are expected to be added. Since it's in the beta stages, you have to sign up to get an invite, but it's completely free.

LegacyUser

Neyite wrote: »

Honestly, I think you are not really being fair. He has made a massive effort to speak english, whereas you have given up learning any spanish at all - not even to communicate with his family. Do you want a future with him? if you dont, then why bother? But you cant look down on him for not being fluent in a second language when its something you yourself cannot bring yourself to work on.

With all respect, I dont think you can say that unless you have been in the situation... Its incredible frustrating after a period of time not being fully understood and you are either into it and willing to work on it or not...

As another poster said, he chooses to live here so the onus is on him to learn the lingo...

Procrastastudy

I know well wrote: »

With all respect, I dont think you can say that unless you have been in the situation... Its incredible frustrating after a period of time not being fully understood and you are either into it and willing to work on it or not...

As another poster said, he chooses to live here so the onus is on him to learn the lingo...

Spoken like a native English speaker!

If he choses to live and work here - yes he needs to learn suficicent English to get by in day-to-day life. He should also learn some very basic Irish for the odd time you need to use Irish words.

If he's in a relationship then both parties should make an effort. It's a two way street. If this little an effort is too much then you're probably with the wrong person. OP - I'm not suggesting thats the case with you just a general comment.

If the relationship goes the distance any children should get the benefit of both parents culture and language and the OP should be able to support that and understand when the Grandparent are speaking to the child. Good luck with trilingual children though!

sbsquarepants

I know well wrote: »

With all respect, I dont think you can say that unless you have been in the situation... Its incredible frustrating after a period of time not being fully understood and you are either into it and willing to work on it or not...

As another poster said, he chooses to live here so the onus is on him to learn the lingo...

Jesus, what a self centred world view you have! If you aren't being understood, either is he. Instead of getting your knickers in a twist you should try learning spanish - like he is learning english. As for the prospective grandparents, do you think they should learn english for your benefit too? Personally i think you have, or at least will have much bigger problems than a language barrier.

thefeatheredcat

I think perhaps you're a bit disheartened and frustrated that you've lost a bit of enthusiasm or willingness to commit to challenging yourself and learning more?

Years ago in school I did a private exchange to Germany. My German wasn't the absolute best just above average, I had the knowledge but lacked the confidence when I was over there as I was on my own. One incredible thing during my struggle at communicating was that the grandmother of the family was known not to speak a word of English, turned around and actually offered me some words of comfort in English. I had pretty much lost my confidence up to that point and gave up.

Now unless you intend on continuing the relationship without being able to communicate properly, or rely on google translate or have your boyfriend be your translator if English isn't widely spoken amongst his family you might have to have a renewed approach to tackling the communication problem.

In the way that you helped your boyfriend with English, let him help you in the same way and make it a fun challenge together even just the more colloquial aspects and then have structured learning in classes. Even get his friends involved in helping you, practice and have them encourage you. It's not nice to feel excluded when his friends are there and conversation naturally gravitates to their native tongue so if you feel that way it might be worth trying to express that but show a willingness to want to learn to feel included and be part of the conversation. They probably can help you and given that they had to learn English it's not like they're going to be totally impatient if you get it wrong as they will know what it's like.

Neyite

I know well wrote: »

With all respect, I dont think you can say that unless you have been in the situation... Its incredible frustrating after a period of time not being fully understood and you are either into it and willing to work on it or not...

As another poster said, he chooses to live here so the onus is on him to learn the lingo...

Well with all due respect to you too, I actually have been in that situation - twice in fact. With a German and Italian boyfriend, both of them long term relationships longer than the period the OP has been with her boyfriend. So I kinda can say that, dont you think?

I never once said that she should have to speak spanish to him here in Ireland. I agree that where he lives he needs to speak the native language, and by all accounts he is improving all the time.

Of course it can be frustrating to have a language barrier. I never said it was not, I experienced it myself. But to get fed up with someone who is continiously learning the language while you yourself refuse to is a bit silly. The OP says she found learning spanish too hard, but expects her boyfriend to understand not only english, but also the colloquials, slang and "irish-isms" is kinda unfair on the guy.

But to go and visit his family and not learn enough of the basics to converse on a fundamental level with them - in their own country and in their own home is not very mannerly in my eyes. And if she wants children with this man like she mentioned, she does not want the grandparents to speak to their own grandchildren in the only language they know?

I am the first to admit that languages are not my thing, I am beyond woeful at them, so I do sympathise with the OP on how hard it can be - but if you love somebody you should at least try. When I visited my boyfriends families I tried, and it was so bad that we all were in hysterics with my pathetic attempts. But the point is that I tried, and those families appreciated my efforts.

Furthermore, not only does she not want to learn his language, and she wants him to be more fluent in hers, and she wants people in another country to learn a foreign language to speak in their country so she can understand what they are saying to her future children. I just dont understand why the OP expects everybody else to make the effort to speak in her language irrespective of where in the world they are?

gubbie

I know well wrote: »

As another poster said, he chooses to live here so the onus is on him to learn the lingo...

I agree he has to learn English, but the OP went to Argentina to meet the family and wasn't able to talk to them.

I think you should look at it as an opportunity, an amazing opportunity to learn another language. You'll be able to comunicate with a huge number of people, and it's probably a lot easier to learn Spanish from an Argentinian then a Spaniard.

Miss Fluff

You really need to put some effort into learning Spanish. I wouldn't see it as a chore either but rather a great opportunity to improve your relationship and the communication between you!

LegacyUser

I came to Ireland 8 years ago with no English. I started work as a nanny whilst taking ESL classes at night. I did end up meeting my husband here. When we started dating it wasn't easy, tbh. What made it work was the motivation we had learning each other's language and culture as well as our love and similar views and goals in life. We wanted to be able to communicate beyond the basics. My husband is quite fluent in Italian now and I am fluent in English and currently studying Irish for about a year. I certainly able to joke about anything and converse a variety of different topics with any native English speaker.

Your bf has been here for two years and you admit he is doing amazingly well. You are helping him out as much as you can which is thoughtful. I will say something to you as I know I have been in the same situation as your bf now. Even though you are a kindergarten teacher and able to communicate in more simplistic terms this will not help him. I advise to stop this! You are not doing him any favours as he would be less likely to expand his vocabulary and advance his English. Speak the way you naturally do and only simplify if need be but not going down that level. He must be more intermediate-advanced now? When I worked as a nanny for the first two years, I started from scratch and then was at the same level as the family’s oldest child (11 years old) which put me at a more advanced level. I was in no way the same level then as now. But I was still able to talk about a variety of subjects then. Not in greatest detail but enough to at least understand what they were saying and for them to understand me. Keep in mind, when I finished my ESL courses I still continued studying English. So I hope for his own sake that he is continuing with his studies because an entire ESL program will not be enough. Also my OH never spoke down with me he only had to repeat himself slowly. If there was a word I didn’t get I would ask him what it meant. By doing this, my English advanced and I was able to understand his mode of speaking, and finally learn more Irish lingo. I cannot speak for your bf as we are all different when it comes to learning languages. But for you OP, I too would be annoyed if I had to speak the way you do all the time, especially with someone you are in an intimate relationship with. I know that with my husband and me we are able to communicate and understand each other very well without even speaking sometimes.

I apologise if I sound harsh now, but your comments about your bf's family and friends came across as very ignorant to me. My OH never expected my family or friends to speak English. I assume your parents and friends don't speak any Spanish and they speak only English when he is present and he feels the same as you did from that trip to Argentina. You have every right to feel upset and irritated about the experience as it is very understandable. When my OH and I went over to Italy for the first time to meet my family he felt the exact same way. Left out, not able to hold a conversation and yes there was a bit of Lost in Translation on my part. What happened after this trip? He tried even harder to learn the language, he told me that he didn't want to be that stereotypical native English speaker that only speaks English. Funny he says that because he is a Gaelgoir. But now whenever my parents or friends ring us he can have a full conversation with them that is beyond the weather and the how are yous. In most relationships, a partner tends to put in the same amount of effort as the other. If this is the case maybe you need to show your bf that you are putting the effort learning Spanish and maybe this will motivate him more with English? If you cannot, I am not sure how much longer this relationship will last. All relationships are difficult and require work from both. It is hard enough for people who date within the same nationality but it can be twice as hard to maintain a relationship when the OH comes from a completely different one. The novelty is most likely going to fade so what happens next?

prinz

I know well wrote: »

As another poster said, he chooses to live here so the onus is on him to learn the lingo...

The problem is the OP is also put out that the guy speaks Spanish with his Argentinian friends. It's a bit much to expect a large group of people who are thousands of miles from home in a foreign land, culture and language, not to speak their native tongue when they get together to socialise because the OP feels left out. You think a gang of Irish in a non-English speaking part of the world would all sit down and speak in the local lingo?

dellas1979

I think you are being a bit hard on him, and a bit soft on yourself.

His english will get better if he stays here (to gain a fluency, including colloquial language will take him more than 2 years) but I think you should make a better effort learn the language (and the colloquilisms). Go to a class and who better to have an interambio with (a language exchange) / practice than with than your bf! If you love him and see a future with him, persevere with his language learning and yours also.

You have all the tools to try and learn his language. The child thing? Who better to learn also off than a child! And what an advantage it would be for a child to be learning 2 languages.

If it is something you just dont want to do, then you are going to have a bigger problem or wait 5 plus years for his english to get better.

On a plus note, Spanish is one of the easiest languages you can learn - it seems quite daunting at first because it is so fast, but give yourself a chance. Your ears and brain will tune into it-might take a while like him and his english. I learned Spanish at University (and worked in it also) so I know what it is like to have to learn/communicate with the language.

Give him and yourself a break and see it as something enjoyable to do and even something ye could do together.

LegacyUser

LIT wrote: »

........ but it's becoming tiresome having to prethink what I will say, and reword it to make it simpler for him. We can't really have many in depth conversations about topics like politics, or current affairs.. and even sometimes when I go to explain my emotions, things become diluted. I am starting to miss just being able to say whatever is on my mind.

This is what stands out for me.....

If you can't say what you feel or if you have to explain everything in simple English, it becomes very frustrating. If humour and in depth conversation are things that are very important to you, then dating someone who can't respond to you will be difficult. It means that you can't be yourself.

I gave up dating foreign girls with basic English a long time ago due to similar frustrations. When jokes fell on deaf ears / when I had to try to explain them, it just took up so much time.

Then again, I couldn't tell if we had compatible senses of humour because of mistranslation.

Do you reckon that if you did become proficient in Spanish that you would be having deep conversations about current affairs with him? I've dated enough English speakers who had
no interest in having those types of conversations.....