Ireland vs Provinces

LCD

In light of the IRFU's overseas players policy, in the modern game which is more important for fans and the IRFU? The provinces winning or Ireland winning? Unfortunately I believe at international level we will never win the World Cup & also 6Nations titles will be few & far between. History has shown this to be the case.

Is it better for the IRFU to have the provinces in the shake-up for the Cup and League regularly, teams with a healthy dose of overseas players but plenty of home grown talent. Then international results like we have had the last 10+/- years.

If they implement this new policy I see Provinces doing badly & Ireland doing about the same as now.

Without Irish success (business wise anyway) there is no cash for the provinces, which ultimately leads to a lack of provincial success. Provincial success can also breed interest in the National Squad (or resentment at the lack of transfer between the two).

We need both to be doing well, they are seriously interdependent.

irishbucsfan

The provinces are run on the IRFUs money. They're ensuring they get an adequate return on that investment.

Neil3030

Personally, I will always treat anyone who prioritises province over country as an ignorant, glory seeking, bandwagon jumper. Even now, as a Leinster fan, it makes me sick to see/hear people prioritise Leinster over Ireland. I may be in a minority, times may change, but that's my opinion on the matter.

justsomebloke

Deleted User wrote: »

Without Irish success (business wise anyway) there is no cash for the provinces, which ultimately leads to a lack of provincial success. Provincial success can also breed interest in the National Squad (or resentment at the lack of transfer between the two).

Actually I have always wondered what actually makes more of a difference money wise, continued success for the provinces or the odd good run for Ireland.

You would have to imagine that a good chunk of Ireland's money comes from TV rights and gate receipts, but does a good run actually make much of a difference to these figures as generally attendances are pretty stagnant as the stadium can't accommodate more fans and TV rights aren't going to change much either.

On the other hand provincial success has brought a lot more season ticket holders into the sport and then there are the games that can be played in stadiums like the aviva which will bring a good bit of money that otherwise wouldn't of been there.

justsomebloke

Neil3030 wrote: »

Personally, I will always treat anyone who prioritises province over country as an ignorant, glory seeking, bandwagon jumper.

well I am one of them so please cop on to yourself

Neil3030

justsomebloke wrote: »

well I am one of them so please cop on to yourself

No, I am entitled to my opinion regardless of who you are and how it might displease you, so I return the request.

Neil3030

Neil3030 wrote: »

Personally, I will always treat anyone who prioritises province over country as an ignorant, glory seeking, bandwagon jumper. Even now, as a Leinster fan, it makes me sick to see/hear people prioritise Leinster over Ireland. I may be in a minority, times may change, but that's my opinion on the matter.

wtf?

You're entitled to an opinion calling someone ignorant, yet are completely ignorant of them being allowed be of the opinion that their Province (which plays more, plays locally more, is more easily accessible, cheaper to follow etc etc etc) plays a bigger part in their life than the National squad?

ridiculous comment!

peterako

I think the new policy is poorly thought out and will affect the Provinces if kept for teh long term.

yes, there have been some bad signings, and yes some NIQ players have kept good players out of squads.

But by and large they have been a positive influence and many have brought a winning mindest and mentality to the Irish Provincial game.

Sadly....Ireland SHOULD do better...

As to the National Team performances why/why not...

justsomebloke

then I might as well be frank and say I really despise people like you with that sort of view as it really does epitomize the old boy image of rugby that has plagued the development of rugby into non traditional areas.

Neil3030

Deleted User wrote: »

wtf?

You're entitled to an opinion calling someone ignorant, yet are completely ignorant of them being allowed be of the opinion that their Province (which plays more, plays locally more, is more easily accessible, cheaper to follow etc etc etc) plays a bigger part in their life than the National squad?

ridiculous comment!

They're ignorant to the fact that without the national game, or more specifically the IRFU's move to strengthen the domestic provincial game in an effort to assist the national setup, their provinces wouldn't be near as strong as they are.

fitz

Neil3030 wrote: »

Personally, I will always treat anyone who prioritises province over country as an ignorant, glory seeking, bandwagon jumper. Even now, as a Leinster fan, it makes me sick to see/hear people prioritise Leinster over Ireland. I may be in a minority, times may change, but that's my opinion on the matter.

Someone sees that they can go to three or four Leinster home games for the same price as going to see Ireland play Scotland in the 6 Nations, and they think it's better value for them to have three nights out to go see Leinster play fantastic rugby rather than the muck Kidney has Ireland playing. And because they do so they're ignorant, glory seeking, bandwagon jumpers?
Don't be daft.

I went to NZ to support Ireland at the WC, but at the moment, I enjoy watching Leinster far more than the national side. I want success for both, but if I'm going to spend money to go to games, it'll be for Leinster games until Kidney is out and the national side is being coached by someone who has a vague clue what to do with the resources available to them. Doesn't mean I don't care how the team do.

Neil3030

justsomebloke wrote: »

then I might as well be frank and say I really despise people like you with that sort of view as it really does epitomize the old boy image of rugby that has plagued the development of rugby into non traditional areas.

As I said above, times may change and I may be in a minority, but if you are insinuating that I am approaching this from some elitist perspective that wants to keep rugby to certain pockets of society, I can't begin to describe how wide of the mark you are.

justsomebloke

Neil3030 wrote: »

They're ignorant to the fact that without the national game, or more specifically the IRFU's move to strengthen the domestic provincial game in an effort to assist the national setup, their provinces wouldn't be near as strong as they are.

sorry I am in no way ignorant of the need of the money the national game brings into the provincial set up so please get your facts right before you spout crap like that

JustinDee

LCD wrote: »

In light of the IRFU's overseas players policy, in the modern game which is more important for fans and the IRFU? The provinces winning or Ireland winning? Unfortunately I believe at international level we will never win the World Cup & also 6Nations titles will be few & far between. History has shown this to be the case.

Is it better for the IRFU to have the provinces in the shake-up for the Cup and League regularly, teams with a healthy dose of overseas players but plenty of home grown talent. Then international results like we have had the last 10+/- years.

If they implement this new policy I see Provinces doing badly & Ireland doing about the same as now.

The aim is that both should compliment each other.
However, the international level of the game is what funds the sport for the main part, to the tune of approx 80% hence the (correct) pecking order and balance we see today.

Non-Irish qualified overseas players are not being cut out. They will be subject to parameters aimed at ensuring that no Irish talent in any position is cut out of the picture. This means, if full quota is taken up by a provincial branch of the IRFU, that there will still be FIVE in each squad.
Each case, as explained from the get-go, will be looked at individually within these parameters and in the event of injury depletion/emergency callups will be treated on a case-by-case scenario.

This isn't a case of "Ireland v Provinces" at all.

padser

Neil3030 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

wtf?

You're entitled to an opinion calling someone ignorant, yet are completely ignorant of them being allowed be of the opinion that their Province (which plays more, plays locally more, is more easily accessible, cheaper to follow etc etc etc) plays a bigger part in their life than the National squad?

ridiculous comment!

They're ignorant to the fact that without the national game, or more specifically the IRFU's move to strengthen the domestic provincial game in an effort to assist the national setup, their provinces wouldn't be near as strong as they are.

I'm not ignorant to that fact.

For me it's a toss up between Ireland and Leinster and the fact that Leinster is dependent on irfu doesn't change the level of enjoyment I get out of seeing the relative teams suceed

JustinDee

Neil3030 wrote: »

Personally, I will always treat anyone who prioritises province over country as an ignorant, glory seeking, bandwagon jumper. Even now, as a Leinster fan, it makes me sick to see/hear people prioritise Leinster over Ireland. I may be in a minority, times may change, but that's my opinion on the matter.

You should relax. There are more important things in life and elsewhere for you to be "sick" about.
Yes, people do follow success. Sånn er livet.
In my own opinion, a sport takes all it can get behind it to whatever degree, and to hell with the begrudgers.

bamboozle

just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons for me its club first followed by province and country.

to be honest as Leinster's trajectory has been upwards and the national team's downwards i've found it harder and harder to enjoy watching Ireland play. No less possionate about the irish team just disillusioned with how poorly they are being coached.

irishbucsfan

Interesting to see Nacewa signing after saying he didn't know what was going to happen a couple of days before...

Surely he knew about the contract at that stage! It seems to me like he's being used politically in interviews like that.

I think there is a case of Ireland v. Provincial management. I think that's just a bit of a struggle over these new rulings and maybe player welfare programmes. I don't think there's anything beyond that. The provinces know that the IRFU have laid out the foundation for their success.

Teferi

bamboozle wrote: »

to be honest as Leinster's trajectory has been upwards and the national team's downwards i've found it harder and harder to enjoy watching Ireland play. No less possionate about the irish team just disillusioned with how poorly they are being coached.

Pretty much this.

No less passionate about Ireland, I just hate seeing them being wasted by a useless chancer.

skregs

skregs wrote: »

I always assumed it was the other way around. A gate of approx. 50,000 every fortnight, weekly TV coverage and sponsorship deals and a higher year round marketing opportunity compared to the 2/3 home matches for the six nations and a couple of low profile friendly matches.

JustinDee is our inside man, he's already confirmed earlier in the thread the difference in revenues from the International game vs the provincial game.

justsomebloke

skregs wrote: »

I always assumed it was the other way around. A gate of approx. 50,000 every fortnight, weekly TV coverage and sponsorship deals and a higher year round marketing opportunity compared to the 2/3 home matches for the six nations and a couple of low profile friendly matches.

60% of the 2009/2010 IRFU revenue came from international games (between ticket sale and broadcast rights). 6 nations TV rights being roughly 33% of that figure

edit: roughly 9% of the IRFU revenue comes from the broadcast of ERC games (this excludes gate receipts)

JustinDee

skregs wrote: »

I always assumed it was the other way around. A gate of approx. 50,000 every fortnight, weekly TV coverage and sponsorship deals and a higher year round marketing opportunity compared to the 2/3 home matches for the six nations and a couple of low profile friendly matches.

Revenue from the international game actually generates 81% of funding to Irish rugby. ERC competition provides 13%.
Latest annual report is available to download in the IRFU section of www.IrishRugby.ie.

justsomebloke

JustinDee wrote: »

Revenue from the international game actually generates 81% of funding to Irish rugby. ERC competition provides 13%.
Latest annual report is available to download in the IRFU section of www.IrishRugby.ie.

going through the accounts I think the 81% of funds is a very misleading figure to give.

Apparently Provincial rugby only generated €9m according to those accounts. Given that €5m of that is for the ERC tv rights that would mean, that between the 4 provinces they generated a total income of €4m.

Leinster ticket sales alone last year would of been at least €4.5 million if not a lot more so the figures you are using to say that 81% of the incomes comes from the IRFU are actually not comparable as is

.ak

Whilst I can see where Neil3030 is coming from, you could totally turn the argument around and say that a lot of the Irish fanbase is only there because of recent success (EoS and '09). The door swings both ways I'm afraid.


I'm a Leinster fan first, and Ireland fan second. Why? Because I'm 25 and grew up watching Leinster develop into the team it is today. I was always able to get into matches at the Brook and other places easily, see friends from school get into sides and play with the current rake of talent that is now in the squad.

Basically, the team, the branch and the fanbase was far more acceptable and easier to access than Ireland or Lansdowne rd. Also the fact that when I was younger test matches were rare, you only had the Five/Six Nations.

Whilst I am a feverishly avid fan of the tournament, it's still very much a 'summer camp' for players and fans alike, where the different groups of players, coaches and staff go together to play under one union for a few months. Yes, it's special, but nothing compared to the hard road of playing through a season of interpros, leagues and cups.

thomond2006

Neil3030 wrote: »

Personally, I will always treat anyone who prioritises province over country as an ignorant, glory seeking, bandwagon jumper. Even now, as a Leinster fan, it makes me sick to see/hear people prioritise Leinster over Ireland. I may be in a minority, times may change, but that's my opinion on the matter.

I support Munster over Ireland because I go to more Munster games and see Munster train most weeks. I have more of an emotional investment in Munster if you like (reading the thread a lot of posters feel the same).

I support Ireland too, but they're almost like a distant relation. I don't see them in the flesh much. Fair enough, the national team is what keeps the provinces in existence, but that doesn't mean I have to care more about Ireland than Munster.

Please enlighten me how I'm ignorant.

Otacon

I would give up both of Munster's HCup victories for one Irish WC.

My 2c.

justsomebloke

Otacon wrote: »

I would give up both of Munster's HCup victories for one Irish WC.

My 2c.

I'd give up Munster's 2 HCup wins for one Irish WC as well :pac:

JustinDee

justsomebloke wrote: »

going through the accounts I think the 81% of funds is a very misleading figure to give.

Apparently Provincial rugby only generated €9m according to those accounts. Given that €5m of that is for the ERC tv rights that would mean, that between the 4 provinces they generated a total income of €4m.

Leinster ticket sales alone last year would of been at least €4.5 million if not a lot more so the figures you are using to say that 81% of the incomes comes from the IRFU are actually not comparable as is

It is not misleading at all. Read our Treasurer's report, particularly the mention of the three main sponsors, for example.

Brand partnerships, endorsements, grants, Ten-Year ticket sales, corporate box sales, TV rights all add up as outlined in report.

.ak

JustinDee wrote: »

It is not misleading at all. Read our Treasurer's report, particularly the mention of the three main sponsors, for example.

Brand partnerships, endorsements, grants, Ten-Year ticket sales, corporate box sales, TV rights all add up as outlined in report.

Question for you JD. The income you mentioned above, in the equivalent channels of income for the branches - does that money go towards the IRFU or the branch itself for its own funding?

Does that make sense?

Donnielighto

Just a question regarding what is being discussed in this thread.

Which is more important for the fans and which is more important for the IRFU are not neccesarily the same thing no?

Fans would presumably be more short term and provincial focused while the IRFU would have a longer term view, because they have to, and would prioritise the national team.

I prefer the provincial games but the national team is more important or something like that.

justsomebloke

JustinDee wrote: »

It is not misleading at all. Read our Treasurer's report, particularly the mention of the three main sponsors, for example.

Brand partnerships, endorsements, grants, Ten-Year ticket sales, corporate box sales, TV rights all add up as outlined in report.

I'm not debating that the figures are wrong, I'm just stating you can't compare the provincial numbers to the Irish numbers cause they aren't counting the same things.

According to the accounts the IRFU has an income of €48.5m excluding costs and provincial Rugby. the problem is the accounts don't give you a corresponding figure for the provinces to compare that figure with as it doesn't explain where the €6.7 provincial figure comes from and what it contains and as I already said I don't think it is the total revenue without costs as the figure don't match up.

So as the figures don't consist of the same things they shouldn't be compared against each other

chancer12

skregs wrote: »

81%? Jesus!

Wouldn't you think they'd appreciate the need for an able coach then?

JustinDee

justsomebloke wrote: »

I'm not debating that the figures are wrong, I'm just stating you can't compare the provincial numbers to the Irish numbers cause they aren't counting the same things

They are being shown in an overall picture of the union's revenue v expenditure with regards to the game in Ireland be that at national, provincial, club or schools level.

The main revenue stream by a country mile is the national team. There's no getting around it. It provides as stated in the annual reports that much of a percentage of the game's revenue.
The only comparison relevant is the size of the revenue that the levels in question produce.

JustinDee

.ak wrote: »

Question for you JD. The income you mentioned above, in the equivalent channels of income for the branches - does that money go towards the IRFU or the branch itself for its own funding?

Does that make sense?

The union budgets funding to each programme such as national, academies, provincial, women's rugby, schools, clubs, leisure rugby. This covers all areas such as coaching, development, elite rugby, promotion etc.

padser

justsomebloke wrote: »

JustinDee wrote: »

It is not misleading at all. Read our Treasurer's report, particularly the mention of the three main sponsors, for example.

Brand partnerships, endorsements, grants, Ten-Year ticket sales, corporate box sales, TV rights all add up as outlined in report.

I'm not debating that the figures are wrong, I'm just stating you can't compare the provincial numbers to the Irish numbers cause they aren't counting the same things.

According to the accounts the IRFU has an income of €48.5m excluding costs and provincial Rugby. the problem is the accounts don't give you a corresponding figure for the provinces to compare that figure with as it doesn't explain where the €6.7 provincial figure comes from and what it contains and as I already said I don't think it is the total revenue without costs as the figure don't match up.

So as the figures don't consist of the same things they shouldn't be compared against each other

I've always suspected that 80% figure was in some way misleading - it was trotted out by the union a few months back. Never had time to go thrOugh the report in detail though to figure out what.

I'd love to see a breakdown of

- total revenue into Irish rugby (irfu plus provinces)
- total spend broken down by national team, provinces and other

I'm sure the national team subsidises the provInces, just not as much as we are led to believe

justsomebloke

JustinDee wrote: »

They are being shown in an overall picture of the union's revenue v expenditure with regards to the game in Ireland be that at national, provincial, club or schools level.

Can you let me know what you think the €9m figure for provincial rugby consists of then. Is it the total income of the clubs, the profit made by the clubs or is it something else like income minus player wages but not other expenditure?

molloyjh

JustinDee wrote: »

Revenue from the international game actually generates 81% of funding to Irish rugby. ERC competition provides 13%.
Latest annual report is available to download in the IRFU section of www.IrishRugby.ie.

Interesting looking at the Annual Report alright, but what I would love to see is an actual breakdown of the various different income sources. I'm assuming that income would come from ticket sales, merchandising, sponsorship, prize money and TV rights (I'm sure there's more but that would cover most of it surely?).

I believe Leinster got €700k from the QF against Leicester last year alone. Using this as a base there were 3 games in Landsdowne Rd in the 2010-2011 financial year so that would be an estimated €2m from those 3 games alone.

We can estimate that STH sales for the season were approximately €4m (probably a conservative estimate but reasonable for now given 13,500 STHs). Outside of that isn't the BoI sponsorship deal worth about €1m?

So looking purely at Leinsters 3 biggest games, their STHs and main sponsor that's in and around €7m already. After that are the public ticket sales for the other Pro12 and HEC games in the RDS. There were 14 in total in the 10/11 financial year with an average attendance of just over 15k. An average of 3k public tickets per game is fair, at say €25 each, is another €1m. So that's €8m before all other sponsorship income, merchandising etc. I don't know how the TV rights work, but even ignoring that we must surely be tipping about €10m or thereabouts. Yet the ERC and provincial income figure for all provinces in the accounts is €9.3m.

(it could well be net income)

JustinDee

justsomebloke wrote: »

Can you let me know what you think the €9m figure for provincial rugby consists of then. Is it the total income of the clubs, the profit made by the clubs or is it something else like income minus player wages but not other expenditure?

Total revenue to the union from its provinces participating in ERC and Celtic League competition (they're not clubs).

CatFromHue

skregs wrote: »

I always assumed it was the other way around. A gate of approx. 50,000 every fortnight, weekly TV coverage and sponsorship deals and a higher year round marketing opportunity compared to the 2/3 home matches for the six nations and a couple of low profile friendly matches.

Ireland will play 5 games in this calender year in the Aviva. If the average price of a ticket is 70euro, then the total income will be 70*52,000*5 = 18.2million.

Leinster will play 14 regular season home games this season and I'd guess the average ticket is 40euro. The RDS can take 18500 but I think worked out on another thread we're operating at about 80% capacity this season on average, we're usually around 70% though. The total income from these games is 14*(18500*0.8)*40 = 8.3m. Obviously knock out games and the games in the Aviva will increase this amount but these are also relatively new.

Munster have had a total of 228,800 attending their regular season games so far this season (I counted them the home attendances off the Munster website) and if we include a full house for the last game of the season and assume an average ticket price of 40euro then the total ticket income is 255,300*40 = 10.2m.

Ulster have had approx 118,100 attending their home games. I've no idea what their average ticket is but lets go with 40euro which would give a total ticket income of 118,100*40 = 4.7m.

Connachts average home attendance is what 4000? Again I don't know home much a ticket but lets go with an average of 30 so their ticket income is 4000*30*14 = 1.7m.

The total provinces ticket income is 1.7 + 4.7 + 10.2 + 8.3 = 24.9m compared to 18.2m for the Ireland games.

I'd say though that the provinces tickets are estimated on the high side as the home attendance is usually inflated due to season ticket holders and also due to season tickets the average ticket price is also inflated (my south stand RDS season ticket I think works out to be 20-25euro per game).

The 6 Nations TV money for Ireland is far larger than the Rabo and HEC TV money. From the link below they estimate that Ireland gets 11m for the 6 Nations compared to 5m for the ERC.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/save/the_facts.php

So on just ticket sales and tv revenue alone the provinces generate approx 29m (probably estimated too high for the provinces) and Ireland generates about the same.

Then there is merchandise to add in. Up until relatively recently it was always the Ireland gear you'd see around more than the provincial gear. This is changing though. Also there is sponsorship. I'd estimate that the 02 deal with Ireland is pretty big in comparison to Bank Of Ireland with Ulster and Leinster, Toyota with Munster, and Mazda with Connacht. Think of how often you see the Ireland O2 adds in comparison to any main sponsor with the provinces adds.

JustinDee

molloyjh wrote: »

Interesting looking at the Annual Report alright, but what I would love to see is an actual breakdown of the various different income sources. I'm assuming that income would come from ticket sales, merchandising, sponsorship, prize money and TV rights (I'm sure there's more but that would cover most of it surely?).

I believe Leinster got €700k from the QF against Leicester last year alone. Using this as a base there were 3 games in Landsdowne Rd in the 2010-2011 financial year so that would be an estimated €2m from those 3 games alone.

We can estimate that STH sales for the season were approximately €4m (probably a conservative estimate but reasonable for now given 13,500 STHs). Outside of that isn't the BoI sponsorship deal worth about €1m?

So looking purely at Leinsters 3 biggest games, their STHs and main sponsor that's in and around €7m already. After that are the public ticket sales for the other Pro12 and HEC games in the RDS. There were 14 in total in the 10/11 financial year with an average attendance of just over 15k. An average of 3k public tickets per game is fair, at say €25 each, is another €1m. So that's €8m before all other sponsorship income, merchandising etc. I don't know how the TV rights work, but even ignoring that we must surely be tipping about €10m or thereabouts. Yet the ERC and provincial income figure for all provinces in the accounts is €9.3m.

TV rights money is negotiated by the union with the competition in question. Revenue from staging a game in the Aviva entails much more than a simple seats x ticket price. It is also a ground-hire situation with the stadium company, not the IRFU. Sponsorship deal is spread over a timeframe.

molloyjh

JustinDee wrote: »

Total revenue to the union from its provinces participating in ERC and Celtic League competition (they're not clubs).

So does this mean that any income that the provinces put back into their own set-ups isn't counted, or does all the income go to the IRFU first (get accounted for here) and then get passed back onto the provinces?

JustinDee wrote: »

TV rights money is negotiated by the union with the competition in question. Revenue from staging a game in the Aviva entails much more than a simple seats x ticket price. It is also a ground-hire situation with the stadium company, not the IRFU. Sponsorship deal is spread over a timeframe.

So the TV rights are not factored into the provincial sides income for Pro12 and HEC? And surely if we are talking income we are excluding for that purpose the outgoings, including ground rentals etc? We're just talking about the money that the sides bring in seperate from what they cost? And I'm aware the sponsorship is spread over time. AFAIK the deal is a €1m a year deal.

justsomebloke

JustinDee wrote: »

Total revenue to the union from its provinces participating in ERC and Celtic League competition (they're not clubs).

so I can assume you mean net income then.

there for if you take the international revenue as €55m take away just the professional costs and elite player development and you have a figure of roughly €18.8 which means compare it to the €9.3 of the provinces and at this point you are already down from 81% to 69% and that is with out the admin, marketing costs etc which will bring it down even further. So truthfully the national squad isn't actually making that much more money then the clubs.

CatFromHue

justsomebloke wrote: »

So truthfully the national squad isn't actually making that much more money then the clubs.

The national team is doing it on the back of far fewer games though. In a regular season Ireland will play about 10/11 games whereas when you add up all the provincial games in a regular season it's 112 (22 rabo + 6 HEC/Amlim times 4).

prospect

1. Leinster
2. Ireland
3. Other Provinces.

JustinDee

justsomebloke wrote: »

so I can assume you mean net income then.

there for if you take the international revenue as €55m take away just the professional costs and elite player development and you have a figure of roughly €18.8 which means compare it to the €9.3 of the provinces and at this point you are already down from 81% to 69% and that is with out the admin, marketing costs etc which will bring it down even further. So truthfully the national squad isn't actually making that much more money then the clubs.

A little subjective with your scope here. Read the full report then read through the final accounts. I think you'll find you're missing quite a chunk out.
Truthfully.
And the provincial sides are not clubs.

justsomebloke

CatFromHue wrote: »

The national team is doing it on the back of far fewer games though. In a regular season Ireland will play about 10/11 games whereas when you add up all the provincial games in a regular season it's 112 (22 rabo + 6 HEC/Amlim times 4).

I'm not disputing that fact or the fact that the large chunk of the wages for the provinces are paid by the IRFU and that is taking away from the bottom line of what the IRFU makes.

My issue is the premise that 80% of the Irish rugby's revenue is being generated by the national squad when it clearly isn't. International rugby may make up 80% of the IRFU's revenue but that it's but that doesn't take into consideration the cost involved in the international set up.

Once you take the cost associated with the national squad away from the revenue generated by it it is alot closer to the money generated by provincial rugby

justsomebloke

JustinDee wrote: »

A little subjective with your scope here. Read the full report then read through the final accounts. I think you'll find you're missing quite a chunk out.

then what figure do you come up with for the net running cost of the international setup excluding revenue generated by the provinces, grants and other income

chupacabra

Cant we just support both equally?

I support every irish province (including leinster) except for derby days when Munster comes first. But I support Ireland with equal passion. I dont see why we should have such divisions in our sport between province and country. I wonder what people will think if in a few years Ireland are winning everything and the provinces are suffering?

chupacabra

chupacabra wrote: »

I wonder what people will think if in a few years Ireland are winning everything and the provinces are suffering?

That whoever's replaced Declan is a genius? :pac: