Timing of AI

awaywithyou

i know they say not to AI a cow until she goes off heat... to do it in the 10-12 hrs after a cow has been in heat...

but i dont know bout that.... so...

1. if you see a cow standing to be mounted/being mounted in the morning around 9/10/11am when do you AI the cow???

2. if you see the cow standing to be mounted/being mounted around 3/4/5pm when do you AI hher???

3. if you see the cow in heat in the evening around 8/9pm when do you AI her????


i had a bit of a row with the person doing the DIY AI course with us before xmas... i am of the opinion the cow should be inseminated as soon as possible of being seen in heat.................

bogman_bass

if you follow the AM/PM rule you wont go too wrong

pakalasa

There was a graph in the journal a while back. It showed the chances of conception, versus time from the onset of standing heat. I tried to google it before but couldnt find it. If I remember right, the optimum time was 8 to 10 hours after the start of standing heat. The graph tailed away then over the next 10 hours or so.
If anyone has this graph, please put it up here. It would explain it better than any words could do........

pakalasa

Not a graph but gives times;



From
http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=69613&start=15

whelan1

awaywithyou wrote: »

i know they say not to AI a cow until she goes off heat... to do it in the 10-12 hrs after a cow has been in heat...




i had a bit of a row with the person doing the DIY AI course with us before xmas... i am of the opinion the cow should be inseminated as soon as possible of being seen in heat.................

so if a cow is i heat this morning you ai her then , what if she is still on heat this evening?

KCTK

pakalasa wrote: »

Not a graph but gives times;



From
http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=69613&start=15

Hi Pakalasa

Could you give a quick outline of the times from this? For some reason when I click on the link it says I am banned from that forum!!! Never before in cattletady so dont jnow what I did!!!!

49801

i did a lot of looking into this 12mths ago.
as said above you cant go too far wrong with am/pm rule.

the biggest difficulty as I see it is determining at what stage of heat is a cow when observing them. I find it difficult to interpret how they are expressing themselves... seems experience is the only solution.

I would always argue though that it is far better to get the straw in early though. this is as semen is viable for 24hrs... where as the egg is only viable for 6hrs (I know it says 10hrs in graph but I think thats a bit long myself).
So its far better to have the semen in waiting for the egg than the other way round. what harm if you end up putting straws in too early a couple of times and have to reserve them with a basic value straw. There is lots of little fellows in those straws but still only 1 egg to be fertilised:D

redzerologhlen

I remember from when I did the diy training on the handouts they gave us it said there was a 2% difference in conception rates between service at standing heat and service 8-10 hours after standing heat. If you arent sure I would say throw a straw into her but if you know for sure how long she is standing I would say wait the 8 hours.

pakalasa

KCTK wrote: »

...Could you give a quick outline of the times from this?...

It's a discussion between farmers, so not necessarily correct....:D

"Note that ovulation doesn’t occur until 10 hours after standing heat ends. So there isn’t a big hurry to AI when you see them standing. Standing heat means the one in heat will stand still while another mounts her. The one doing the mounting is not necessarily the one in heat."

Chiliroses

Id definately use the AM/PM rule, so if u see them bulling in the morning AI in evening, bulling in evening AI in morning. You wait anywhere between 8 and 12 hours, although personally 12 is a bit of a long time.

Dozer1

Sounds nice in theory with the am/pm rule but our AI lad only does calls till about 4 in the evening so you either get him in the morning or else u wait till the following day....:(

Actually on that he's given FL21 to the last 3 cows, anyone who used him got anything to comment? they were 3 3rd calvers a mix of HEX and AAX all good milkers

dar31

id generally use the am/am rule
standing in the evening serve in the morning
standing in the morning serve in the morning

if im not happy with the quality of the serve or my effort i call in the bovine insemination specialist, luckily he only live in the field next to the parlour.
any calf is better than not in calf

49801

Dozer1 wrote: »

Sounds nice in theory with the am/pm rule but our AI lad only does calls till about 4 in the evening so you either get him in the morning or else u wait till the following day....:(

Ya I must say I think that the AI tech's are stretched far too thin and the service has suffered as a result. They should only really be covering a few herds in close proximity. The cost of keeping these guys on the road is too expensive for the AI companies. This is why a lot of lads have gone DIY AI.

Dozer1

totally agree 49801, our fella is doing it donkey's years and covering probably a 20 mile radius which is mainly dairy. it'll be a sad day when he retires and not sure if someone will be replacing him with such a sesonable job.

tanko

I have been doing my own AI for 12 years so here's my tuppence worth. To answer your questions 1. 2-3pm 2. 8-9 pm 3. early the following morning. I think that the best time to AI a cow is towards the end of standing heat.

If a cow is standing for a few hours she's ok to AI. I think too early is better than too late. If you are just starting to do your own AI it is easier to do a cow while she is in standing heat because she will be more cooperative in the crush and (how can i put this) the AI gun will slide into her cervix more easily than with a cow that has gone off heat.

Where you deposit the semen in the cow is more important than when you AI the cow.

Good handling facilities are crucial. You need a crush with a good headlock to keep the cow still for best results.

onyerbikepat

Found this in one of my old folders;
From;
http://www.extension.org/pages/65460/strategies-for-success-in-heat-detection-and-artificial-insemination

just do it

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Found this in one of my old folders;
From;
http://www.extension.org/pages/65460/strategies-for-success-in-heat-detection-and-artificial-insemination

Are the boxes referring to 0 hours and 27 hours?

just do it

just do it wrote: »

Are the boxes referring to 0 hours and 27 hours?

To answer my own question:

Figure 3. Artificial insemination at 12 h after onset of standing heat appears to be a compromise between the low fertilization rate and high embryo quality of early inseminations and the high fertilization rate and low embryo quality of late inseminations.

onyerbikepat

In a nutshell - The AM/PM rule.

tanko

The best conception rate on that graph is 50%. Is that for dairy cows? I'd be expecting at least 80% of beef cows to go in calf to their first service.

Kovu

From what I've seen, every cow is different, can be 'in heat' for 3 days or three hours.
As we're 100% AI we watch them close and a lot depends on temp and breed.

Roughly 8 hours after first standing heat does for us.

bogman_bass

tanko wrote: »

The best conception rate on that graph is 50%. Is that for dairy cows? I'd be expecting at least 80% of beef cows to go in calf to their first service.

Fair play if you can manage that!

onyerbikepat

I reckon I'm getting around the 80% aswell, with sucklers. You have to have everything in your favour though, good AI man (most important of all), good AI timing, cows on a good diet, right time of year (more sun the better), plenty of feed, teaser bull etc etc. Waiting on other cows or bullocks to jump on cows is a waste of time.

tanko

bogman_bass wrote: »

Fair play if you can manage that!

Fair enough, I don't manage it every year but 80% is very possible. Had look at last four years numbers of cows/heifers in calf to first service here.
2011 23/32 72%, 2012 25/29 86%, 2013 17/26 65%, 2014 21/26 81%.
Average calving interval is 377 days at the moment.

just do it

tanko wrote: »

Fair enough, I don't manage it every year but 80% is very possible. Had look at last four years numbers of cows/heifers in calf to first service here.
2011 23/32 72%, 2012 25/29 86%, 2013 17/26 65%, 2014 21/26 81%.
Average calving interval is 377 days at the moment.

What do you use for heat detection? Have you a tight calving period? Spring calving? That's enough questions for now;)

tanko

just do it wrote: »

What do you use for heat detection? Have you a tight calving period? Spring calving? That's enough questions for now;)

Use a few year old heifers for heat detection, better than any teaser bull. Yeah "spring"calving which started March 10 and finished May 15 this year. First animal time up February 17 and last one 02 May next year.

Greengrass1

tanko wrote: »

Use a few year old heifers for heat detection, better than any teaser bull. Yeah "spring"calving which started March 10 and finished May 15 this year. First animal time up February 17 and last one 02 May next


Our AI man a teaser off us. Has chin ball on him. Calves in ten weeks niw instead of 16. Wasnt around to find cows bulling

just do it

tanko wrote: »

Use a few year old heifers for heat detection, better than any teaser bull. Yeah "spring"calving which started March 10 and finished May 15 this year. First animal time up February 17 and last one 02 May next year.

I take it you're around to see them then.

I'd a lazy BB vasectomised teaser last year that worked for 2 days and then took 5 days off. Disaster. Then got a LM vasectomised and he was the right lad for the job

tanko

Yeah, they're near the house and well watched in fairness. Even my neighbour rings me if he sees one bulling. A good teaser bull seems to be the business for heat detection alrite.

Farrell

A 6 month weanling bull would work too