Dept. of Taoiseach spends €17m in 2011

Hannibal

from Wednesdays Irish Examimer


"Taoiseach Enda Kenny has defended details of his office’s €17m spend last year which includes funds spent on everything from presents for visiting dignitaries to toilet cleaner.
Mr Kenny’s spokesman said the department’s spend was down 13% compared to the previous year.

The €17.6m included large bills paid out for the staging of US President Barack Obama’s address at College Green in Dublin (€558,934), 30 armchairs for a department room (€8,929) and a carpet for another government room (€9,377).

The year’s spend also includes invoices paid out for pest control, the cleaning of windows and plaques,and even the cost of food and refreshments for cabinet meetings.

Details of the department’s costs emerged in newspaper reports yesterday with the opposition questioning if Mr Kenny’s office was getting the best value for money.

Mr Kenny appeared before an Oireachtas committee last week and said spending in his department would be kept to a minimum on preparations for occasions such as Ireland’s hosting of the EU presidency next year.

Costs footed by taxpayers last year include the rental of a water cooler (€334), new cables for a vacuum cleaner (€173), white hand towels (€431), letter openers (€469), and glass collection fees (€158).

The invoices paid by Mr Kenny’s department include one box of Ocean Toilet Duck (€36.91), damage from bleach to worker’s clothes (€48), rodent control measures (€884), and a dust control floor mat (€30.25).

State occasions warranted bigger outlays with the visit of Prince Albert of Monaco and his wife Charlene Wittstock costing €5,954, while the inauguration of President Michael D Higgins cost €65,856.

Mr Kenny’s spokesman said: "We’re very conscious of making savings. They will continue to be made where they can be made. It’s worth noting there were also three state visits last year also."

_______________________________________________________________

This spending puts Aengus O'Snodaigh's €50k bill for ink over a two year period into perspective when we see the spending that exists in some government departments.

I presume he didn't go to Des Kelly for his €9,377 carpet for one room or to Bargaintown for his 30 armchairs

SMASH THE UNIONS

I hate to be the one to point it out yet again, but seriously these civil servants are taking the taxpayer for absolute fools. They are riding the gravy train first class using our tax money as fuel. Such vulgar and brash displays of wastage would be infuriating even at the best of times, but this country is in the deepest financial trouble since its establishment. It's a slap in the face to demand us to pay more taxes when we are struggling along, and for what?
- "food and refreshments for cabinet meetings."
- "white hand towels" (at a staggering €431 :eek:)
- " rodent control measures" (still plenty of rats walking the halls of Leinster house if you ask me)

Unbelievable. I had high hopes for the new government but Fine Gael seem to have been corrupted by the "free" money and perks. I didn't expect anything else from Labour. They are puppets of the unions and the decent, hard-working man can go emigrate as far as they are concerned.

Admittedly some of those costs were a once off, such as staging the Obama visit. Although I would have liked to have seen the Americans pay for that. Sadly we don't yet a leader with cajones to make such requests.

Chucky the tree

Should the government just not bother bleaching their toliet and lets rats run around the place?

SMASH THE UNIONS

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Should the government just not bother bleaching their toliet and lets rats run around the place?

Of course the Dept will have to make petty purchases for the upkeep of the office, but it seems that they always take the most expensive option: €469 spent on letter openers?? Ever hear of using your hands like 99.99% of the rest of the population? Come on, that is not justifiable, no matter how you try to twist it. Is Enda's secretary scared of getting a paper cut? Boo-hoo. There are families worried about how they're going to keep the electricity going next month.

It's becoming increasingly clear that there is a small circle of elites at the top of Irish society - the Inner Party - then there are the overpaid civil servants - the Outer Party - then there is you and me, the Proles, slaving away like hamsters on a wheel to support the top layers.

Chucky the tree

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Of course the Dept will have to make petty purchases for the upkeep of the office, but it seems that they always take the most expensive option: €469 spent on letter openers?? Ever hear of using your hands like 99.99% of the rest of the population? Come on, that is not justifiable, no matter how you try to twist it. Is Enda's secretary scared of getting a paper cut? Boo-hoo. There are families worried about how they're going to keep the electricity going next month.

It's becoming increasingly clear that there is a small circle of elites at the top of Irish society - the Inner Party - then there are the overpaid civil servants - the Outer Party - then there is you and me, the Proles, slaving away like hamsters on a wheel to support the top layers.

If you get a huge amount of mail a letter opener makes a big difference actually.

SMASH THE UNIONS

Here's a letter opener for under $2 on Amazon Buy this Enda!. You could probably even go cheaper, that's the first one on the list. Buy 10 of them for the equivalent of €15. Where is this €469 figure the government spent coming from? Are their letter openers made of ivory or gold?

Chucky the tree

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Here's a letter opener for under $2 on Amazon Buy this Enda!. You could probably even go cheaper, that's the first one on the list. Buy 10 of them for the equivalent of €15. Where is this €469 figure the government spent coming from? Are their letter openers made of ivory or gold?

Does that one include delivery? Unless you know the exact details then it's very hard to comment, if they bought one or two for that price obviously it's terrible but without knowing how many they bought or for how many people can't really say much.

Hannibal

they list "Rodent control measures", yet on the Oireachtas report I could quite clearly see Fine Gael deputies still sitting in the Dáil. So their "rodent control measures" obviously don't work

Is this going to be like the "disgust" at the spending on the government jet when it would've cost more to send them in business class?

SMASH THE UNIONS

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Does that one include delivery? Unless you know the exact details then it's very hard to comment, if they bought one or two for that price obviously it's terrible but without knowing how many they bought or for how many people can't really say much.

$2 = roughly €1.51
€469 / €1.51 means Enda bought 310 letter openers. How many does the government need? What happened to the old ones? You can be guaranteed they will spend another €469 next year too and we are expected to not ask any questions. Can't wait for this exact same thread again next year...

ResearchWill

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Here's a letter opener for under $2 on Amazon Buy this Enda!. You could probably even go cheaper, that's the first one on the list. Buy 10 of them for the equivalent of €15. Where is this €469 figure the government spent coming from? Are their letter openers made of ivory or gold?

I would assume it was a couple of these http://www.fileone.ie/Martin-Yale-Letter-Opener-Manual-Feed-W250xD180xH100mm-1.3kg-Ref-1616.html

In a office receiving lots of mail it would be a good idea.

SMASH THE UNIONS

ResearchWill wrote: »

I would assume it was a couple of these http://www.fileone.ie/Martin-Yale-Letter-Opener-Manual-Feed-W250xD180xH100mm-1.3kg-Ref-1616.html

In a office receiving lots of mail it would be a good idea.

I never knew such a machine existed. Again, it's an example of the government taking the expensive option. I might enquire what letter opener exactly did the government buy under the FOI act. On a related note, has the Taoiseach's Dept not heard of email? I though inefficient snail mail was more or less obsolete these days.

StupidLikeAFox

The letter openers were the only things that seemed outlandish on that list tbh, but it was one of those automatic letter openers and it saved someone half and hour a day would it still be a waste?

Dotsey wrote: »

I presume he didn't go to Des Kelly for his €9,377 carpet for one room or to Bargaintown for his 30 armchairs

This is a room in our national houses of parlaiment, it would be worse if they kitted it out in cheap ****e tbh. The armchairs cost a little under €300 quid each, thats not a huge amount for decent furniture that has to last a while

Executive Steve

Mr Kenny’s spokesman said the department’s spend was down 13% compared to the previous year.

Surely that's a good thing?

BKtje

Whole load of nothing here really. Can't say i'd complain about a single item there.

BOHtox

It doesn't really put anything in to perspective. What was the spending over previous terms?

EDIT: just seen it was down 13%

nuac

Havent seen it on t his board but I think on radio there was reference to a footwear allowances. If so, anybody know why?

Pete_Cavan

Spending down 13% when compared with 2010 despite having costs associated with the inauguration of President Michael D Higgins and hosting US President Barack Obama, Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Albert of Monaco in 2011, fair play Enda.

Going Forward

ResearchWill wrote: »

I would assume it was a couple of these http://www.fileone.ie/Martin-Yale-Letter-Opener-Manual-Feed-W250xD180xH100mm-1.3kg-Ref-1616.html

In a office receiving lots of mail it would be a good idea.

If they are electrica/mechanical machines, perhaps a civil servant could have envisaged that the expense might raise some eyebrows and have more accurately listed them as such to avoid this type of discussion.

In private enterprise, yes, the machines may be helpful, and it would be no one elses business how many were purchased and at what cost.

The government's expenses are being paid for by bailout funds and exchequer returns.

Again, its easy to spend what comes easy.

SMASH THE UNIONS

Very surprised at the blasé reaction here. Complacency is the order of the day.

You can't blame the media here. They are fully doing their job by alerting the public to the extortionate abuse of public funds. Posters must not realise it is their money being wasted. If a politician physically dipped his hand into your pocket to grab your money so he could buy a luxurious €9000 carpet, you would stop him. Then why do you allow this corruption to continue? That's 90 household charges on one carpet. Incredible.

StupidLikeAFox

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Very surprised at the blasé reaction here. Complacency is the order of the day.

You can't blame the media here. They are fully doing their job by alerting the public to the extortionate abuse of public funds. Posters must not realise it is their money being wasted. If a politician physically dipped his hand into your pocket to grab your money so he could buy a luxurious €9000 carpet, you would stop him. Then why do you allow this corruption to continue? That's 90 household charges on one carpet. Incredible.

Bearing in mind that you do not know the room it went into, the area it was to cover or the quality of the carpet which was purchased, what, in your own opinion, would be an acceptable price to pay for the carpet?

MadsL

ColHol wrote: »

Bearing in mind that you do not know the room it went into, the area it was to cover or the quality of the carpet which was purchased, what, in your own opinion, would be an acceptable price to pay for the carpet?

You won't get an answer beyond a tabloid headline. The hyperbole in this thread is astonishing, I cannot see an issue with any of these expenses. It costs to run a country. Unless you suggest not inviting heads of state to visit.

Benny_Cake

Only the permanently outraged could find problems with a Department actually reducing it's expenditure. I don't see anything out of the ordinary here.

creedp

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Admittedly some of those costs were a once off, such as staging the Obama visit. Although I would have liked to have seen the Americans pay for that. Sadly we don't yet a leader with cajones to make such requests.

A bit of reality here I think .. can you imagine asking a visiting dignatory to pay for his own visit ... that's how international diplomancy operates allright. I'm sure you get lots of visitors to your house when you ask them to bring thier own grub/drink/jacks roll/etc!

FreudianSlippers

Frankly, I don't think €17m is that much money for the Department to spend...

SMASH THE UNIONS

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Frankly, I don't think €17m is that much money for the Department to spend...

How many more millions would it take before you decide "ok, that's a bit too much?"

People have to look at what the money is being spent on, rather than just the figures themselves. Letter openers, towels, water-coolers, armchairs - all running into the hundreds. Did they not have these items last year?

The Irish have been exposed to gombeenism for so long that now we are immune to it. We expect politicians to fleece the system and extract as much money as possible before they are inevitable chucked out at election time for broken promises, so their brother or son can have a go on the gravy train.

Going Forward

ColHol wrote: »

Bearing in mind that you do not know the room it went into, the area it was to cover or the quality of the carpet which was purchased, what, in your own opinion, would be an acceptable price to pay for the carpet?

But why dont we know? Was that information not sought, or given but not published?

I'd say you could cover Croke park with a 9000E carpet.

Again, some further information about what room etc, would help us ordinary folk to understand how it could cost so much for a carpet.

At least I hope it came from an Irish supplier/manufacturer.

Lockstep

Office spends money on stuff.
More at at 11.

The feigned outrage on this thread is bizarre

SMASH THE UNIONS

Lockstep wrote: »

Office spends our money on frivolous stuff while austerity measures are being forced upon the rest of the country
More at at 11.

FYP to reflect reality.

I also take offense by your implication that my outrage is feigned.
Anybody who isn't annoyed by this doesn't pay tax so is either
(a) on the dole
(b) living abroad
(c) evading tax

[MOD]Don't do FYP. Posters say what they say, and you can either quote them straight or not quote them.[/MOD]

dashboard_hula

I whinge constantly about the lack of detail included in government expense reports. I'm pretty happy with everything listed here, austerity measures or not, there's nothing there that speaks to over indulgence, it looks like a typical large organisations necessary overheads. Down 13% even with 3 state visits.

No issues here. And I pay taxes. Wind your neck in.

southsiderosie

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

FYP to reflect reality.

I also take offense by your implication that my outrage is feigned.
Anybody who isn't annoyed by this doesn't pay tax so is either
(a) on the dole
(b) living abroad
(c) evading tax

MOD NOTE:

Can you calm down and stop making sweeping claims about other posters? If you are upset, fine, but don't make assumptions about other people's motivations here.

Jesus Wept

They could get some non branded bleach for starters. Clowns.

psychward

Andy Carroll wrote: »

They could get some non branded bleach for starters. Clowns.

Exactly my thoughts as soon as I saw the original opening post. Toilet Duck ? Wtf . Even I manage to have a spotless jacks with unbranded bleach. They have no problem sending ministerial mercs driven by Garda on all sorts of silly errands. Maybe they should put one to good use and send him over to Aldi or Lidl to pick up some bleach.

BKtje wrote: »

Whole load of nothing here really. Can't say i'd complain about a single item there.

Read above and wake up. Unless you are one of those zombie hacks who doesn't care what the issue is so long as they can ridicule it.


And as for spending almost 500 euro on white hand towels, I bet they probably steal enough towels from their free 5 star hotel junkets to cover the whole of the Oireachtas 10 times over.

Agent Smith

I fail to see a problem here. Good value for mOney, having had 3 state visits, and a presidential inageration.


Also, have you seen the size of the department building? It isn't toilet duck just for Edna's toilet.

Agent Smith

And yes, I am a tax payer!

psychward

Agent Smith wrote: »

I fail to see a problem here. Good value for mOney, having had 3 state visits, and a presidential inageration.


Also, have you seen the size of the department building? It isn't toilet duck just for Edna's toilet.

It's unbelieveable how people like yourself will stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the need to choose cheaper alternatives. The same bunch of hypocrites simultaneously tell the unemployed to tighten their belts because of money shortages. Well Newsflash dude : There is a money shortage everywhere. Allowing toilet duck instead of aldi/lidl own brand bleach is part of the systemic problem. A system wide solution requires all the little things to save money to stop the rot and put a dampener on the arrogance of those who love to spend and throw away other people's money. I just can't believe the stubbornness and ignorance of some people against change for the better.

StupidLikeAFox

Dotsey wrote: »

The invoices paid by Mr Kenny’s department include one box of Ocean Toilet Duck (€36.91),]

If we're going to argue over a €36.91 cost then I think your priorities are misplaced. A billion euro bondholder payment I can understand but lets face it, 36 quid on anything over the course of a year is hardly anything to be getting your knickers in a twist over.

psychward

ColHol wrote: »

If we're going to argue over a €36.91 cost then I think your priorities are misplaced. A billion euro bondholder payment I can understand but lets face it, 36 quid on anything over the course of a year is hardly anything to be getting your knickers in a twist over.

Another moronic post. All that is wrong should be fixed. You like the moron above you want to pick and choose. Trying to educate apologists for waste like yourself is like trying to teach children with ADHD how to behave. The kids who spend 36.91 on toilet duck instead of 10 Euro on Aldi/Lidl bleach care not for the cost of either those or of bank bail outs. The apologists for government waste like yourself and the previous poster are working in every government department and all across the bloated wasteful health service and bureaucracies ensuring each 36.91 is multiplied a million times over in waste from little things. However they do hypocritically then turn around and tell the unemployed that they won't miss 5 euro from their welfare presumably expecting them to use the own brand stuff even though at least the unemployed can walk away from their debts unlike the state.

southsiderosie

psychward wrote: »

Read above and wake up. Unless you are one of those zombie hacks who doesn't care what the issue is so long as they can ridicule it.

psychward wrote: »

I just can't believe the stubbornness and ignorance of some people against change for the better.

psychward wrote: »

Another moronic post. All that is wrong should be fixed. You like the moron above you want to pick and choose. Trying to educate apologists for waste like yourself is like trying to teach children with ADHD how to behave.

MOD NOTE:

I don't care how angry you are with the current fiscal situation, this kind of abusive posting is unacceptable. Take a week off.

Lockstep

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

FYP to reflect reality.

I also take offense by your implication that my outrage is feigned.
Anybody who isn't annoyed by this doesn't pay tax so is either
(a) on the dole
(b) living abroad
(c) evading tax

I work in a bar.
But feel free to assume that everyone who disagrees with you isn't a tax payer.

FreudianSlippers

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Lockstep wrote: »

Office spends our money on frivolous stuff while austerity measures are being forced upon the rest of the country
More at at 11.

FYP to reflect reality.

I also take offense by your implication that my outrage is feigned.
Anybody who isn't annoyed by this doesn't pay tax so is either
(a) on the dole
(b) living abroad
(c) evading tax

I'm not on the dole or living abroad, so I must be "evading tax". Ridiculous and, frankly, potentially defamatory.

Pete_Cavan

psychward wrote: »

It's unbelieveable how people like yourself will stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the need to choose cheaper alternatives. The same bunch of hypocrites simultaneously tell the unemployed to tighten their belts because of money shortages. Well Newsflash dude : There is a money shortage everywhere. Allowing toilet duck instead of aldi/lidl own brand bleach is part of the systemic problem. A system wide solution requires all the little things to save money to stop the rot and put a dampener on the arrogance of those who love to spend and throw away other people's money. I just can't believe the stubbornness and ignorance of some people against change for the better.

The invoice says "one box of Ocean Toilet Duck (€36.91)". You cant buy boxes like that in supermerkets, they most likely bought it through their office stationary supplier, as would be standard practice in most offices. You can currently get 12 750ml bottles of Ocean Clean Toilet Duck for €38.72 buying it this way and get it delivered. Buying 12 individual bottles of Aldi/Lidl own brand bleach would work out more expensive.

The level of over-reaction here is shocking.

MadsL

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The invoice says "one box of Ocean Toilet Duck (€36.91)". You cant buy boxes like that in supermerkets, they most likely bought it through their office stationary supplier, as would be standard practice in most offices. You can currently get 12 750ml bottles of Ocean Clean Toilet Duck for €38.72 buying it this way and get it delivered. Buying 12 individual bottles of Aldi/Lidl own brand bleach would work out more expensive.

The level of over-reaction here is shocking.

The same office supplier that probably gives discounts, rebates and special offers. Free 100 box of bog roll for buying Toilet Duck perhaps. However let the uninformed whine away.

creedp

MadsL wrote: »

The same office supplier that probably gives discounts, rebates and special offers. Free 100 box of bog roll for buying Toilet Duck perhaps. However let the uninformed whine away.

Its also possible that the same company supplies all office supplies as part of a contract which has been tendered for. You don't normally get guys running out to Lidl to buy bogroll by the six pack in these kinds of organisations. Maybe they could use Tesco on-line though and save the bus fare?

Its funny how some people are focusing on the €36 toilet duck while ignoring the fact that the great Bertie Ahern is still stitching the State for €160 each time he flies out of Dublin Airport. It appears he is entitled to use a VIP lounge which were originally set aside for visiting heads of state but which are now open to the monied class. In fairness, Bertie needs his comforts when heading off to Nigeria to charge €40k for an hours gobbledegook! Now there is something people should put in their pipe and smoke

Going Forward

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The invoice says "one box of Ocean Toilet Duck (€36.91)". You cant buy boxes like that in supermerkets, they most likely bought it through their office stationary supplier, as would be standard practice in most offices. You can currently get 12 750ml bottles of Ocean Clean Toilet Duck for €38.72 buying it this way and get it delivered. Buying 12 individual bottles of Aldi/Lidl own brand bleach would work out more expensive.

The level of over-reaction here is shocking.

12 bottles of own brand bleach from Aldi etc would be around a tenner.
Thats around a quarter of the price.

If they are intent on paying top dollar for brand name goods so be it.

But cost cutting has to begin somewhere, and austerity has caused the general public to think twice before buying "brand names" over equivalent own brand products as seen by the rising market share of the German outlets.

Austerity has obviously not yet hit those actually running the country.

And are there not cleaning contractors engaged to do the cleaning anyway?

Things must be improving in this country if all people have to complain about is the goverment's spending on toilet bleach and bog roll.

Going Forward

Deleted User wrote: »

Things must be improving in this country if all people have to complain about is the goverment's spending on toilet bleach and bog roll.

It might do no harm at all if those in the ivory towers led by example.;)

dsmythy

Going Forward wrote: »

It might do no harm at all if those in the ivory towers led by example.;)

They cut it by 13% from the previous year. Will probably be down again this year.

syklops

Going Forward wrote: »

12 bottles of own brand bleach from Aldi etc would be around a tenner.
Thats around a quarter of the price.

If they are intent on paying top dollar for brand name goods so be it.

I cant believe im arguing about toilet cleaner but here goes.

They will have ordered the cleaner through an office supplies company. The office supplies company likely dont stock aldi/lidl toilet cleaner.

Its all very well saying they could have gone to lidl, but think about the practicality of it. By going through the supplier, its delivered in bulk, cutting down on delivery costs. Were they to make an exception, and buy the toilet cleaner in lidl, they would have to send someone down to lidl/aldi to get it, so the petrol would have to be expensed. Your also paying a civil servant to go to a shop. Time taken to go there, buy it and come back, i'd estimate an hour. So, 10 euros estimate for toilet cleaner, cost of paying a civil servant for an hour, 15 euros(rough guess), petrol(no idea fiver?), so going on my very rough figures, going to Lidl worked out at costing 30 euro.

Seems like the toilet duck was a good deal.

Going Forward

syklops wrote: »

I cant believe im arguing about toilet cleaner but here goes.

They will have ordered the cleaner through an office supplies company. The office supplies company likely dont stock aldi/lidl toilet cleaner.

Its all very well saying they could have gone to lidl, but think about the practicality of it. By going through the supplier, its delivered in bulk, cutting down on delivery costs. Were they to make an exception, and buy the toilet cleaner in lidl, they would have to send someone down to lidl/aldi to get it, so the petrol would have to be expensed. Your also paying a civil servant to go to a shop. Time taken to go there, buy it and come back, i'd estimate an hour. So, 10 euros estimate for toilet cleaner, cost of paying a civil servant for an hour, 15 euros(rough guess), petrol(no idea fiver?), so going on my very rough figures, going to Lidl worked out at costing 30 euro.

Seems like the toilet duck was a good deal.

I mentioned Aldi to give an idea of price disparity, but would they not have accounts with cash and carrys etc., where they could buy generic stuff even cheaper, delivery included.

Its the picking of the branded luxury version over a much cheap one that I'm on about.

Original vs generic really.

It is mundane alright though!

Vizzy

Going Forward wrote: »

I mentioned Aldi to give an idea of price disparity, but would they not have accounts with cash and carrys etc., where they could buy generic stuff even cheaper, delivery included.

Its the picking of the branded luxury version over a much cheap one that I'm on about.

Original vs generic really.

It is mundane alright though!

The Dept( and other departments) probably has one supplier for the likes of office supplies,another for computer consumables,another for stationery.
Each of these suppliers should have been(and probably are) selected after a tender process by the NPS.
Each of these can offer economies of scale that no "cash and carry" type operation could offer.
The upside to this arrangement is that savings will be made.
Downside is that the local supplier(e.g. stationery shop,print shop etc) will be undercut.