EXCEPTIONAL SCORING HANDICAP REDUCTION

AldilaMan

Has anyone come across this new CONGU rule. It's based around any player posting 2 or more good scores in a year (4 shots better than CSS). There is an algorithm which calculates an additional reduction in handicap based also on the interval number of rounds between the 2 good scores. Seems like a good idea to me. Any views

http://www.cgc-ni.com/uploads/CONGU%20ESR.pdf

Tones69

AldilaMan wrote: »

Has anyone come across this new CONGU rule. It's based around any player posting 2 or more good scores in a year (4 shots better than CSS). There is an algorithm which calculates an additional reduction in handicap based also on the interval number of rounds between the 2 good scores. Seems like a good idea to me. Any views

http://www.cgc-ni.com/uploads/CONGU%20ESR.pdf

Yep i got cut an extra stroke past wknd for shooting good in 2 comps (43 pts and 40pts)

Mr. Larson

Tones69 wrote: »

Yep i got cut an extra stroke past wknd for shooting good in 2 comps (43 pts and 40pts)

What are you off now, Tones?

Tones69

Jabberwocky wrote: »

What are you off now, Tones?

14 dude

Mr. Larson

Tones69 wrote: »

14 dude

Getting there

AldilaMan

Tones69 wrote: »

14 dude

Looks like 4 strokes to me in a few weeks. Class 1 soon. Well done

charlieIRL

Tones69 wrote: »

Yep i got cut an extra stroke past wknd for shooting good in 2 comps (43 pts and 40pts)

is it applied straight away Tones?

Tones69

charlieIRL wrote: »

is it applied straight away Tones?

Well my hcap secretary called me and told me where the other deducted stroke came from cos i was wondering, so id say as soon as they upload your score they check to see if you've had another recent good score (beat css by 4 or more) then make the change?

Tones69

Jabberwocky wrote: »

Getting there

Hopefully

AldilaMan wrote: »

Looks like 4 strokes to me in a few weeks. Class 1 soon. Well done

Cheers,I knew id fly down to 13/14 though the way ive been playing recently, the real challenge is from now to 9

Webbs

AldilaMan wrote: »

Has anyone come across this new CONGU rule. It's based around any player posting 2 or more good scores in a year (4 shots better than CSS). There is an algorithm which calculates an additional reduction in handicap based also on the interval number of rounds between the 2 good scores. Seems like a good idea to me. Any views

http://www.cgc-ni.com/uploads/CONGU%20ESR.pdf

In general I think its a great idea as we all know the players this is aimed at!

It can however catch out the player who genuinely shoots a couple of exceptional rounds and the normal cuts would be sufficient, an extra cut of perhaps a couple of shots would rule that player out of being competitive for the season. But as I said there will always be someone who gets caught out by a system like this

Webbs

Tones69 wrote: »

Well my hcap secretary called me and told me where the other deducted stroke came from cos i was wondering, so id say as soon as they upload your score they check to see if you've had another recent good score (beat css by 4 or more) then make the change?

The handicap software in the club should flag the additional cut which then should be applied straight away

AldilaMan

Tones69 wrote: »

Hopefully



Cheers,I knew id fly down to 13/14 though the way ive been playing recently, the real challenge is from now to 9

I had the same in mind a few years back when getting down to 10.5. Just been hanging around ever since driftin to 12 and back in to 10.8. Slower coming down with .2 reductions from 12 onwards and .1s quickly undoing any good work. It's not really a goal for me anymore as I've discovered in the past that these things just happen when you stop thinking about them. Like FTPs breaking 80. It'll happen when he's not looking at the score too closely.

PhilipMarlowe

The software does it immediately and in Ireland it's mandatory whereas some unions leave it to choice.
The amount you get cut (extra) depends on how close together (in terms of rounds, not time as such) you post a couple of 'good' rounds, how good the rounds were and also what category you're in.
I think it will be useful.

charlieIRL

Hopefully it will help me reach my handicap goal this year a bit quicker so!!

big_drive

If one of the rounds was in a non qualifying round (winter rules) can it count?

PhilipMarlowe

No, qualifying rounds is what it's all about.

AdpRo

Interesting. Last summer in 4 qualifing rounds (3 home and 1 away) my ND was:
-7,-4,0,-4, my handicap started at 20.7 and went 18.5, 17.3, 17.3, 16.2 after the 4 rounds. Looking at that rule I think I should have went to 15.3 after the 2nd round so my club oviously don't follow this rule, if it was affected by the 2nd round being away the rule should still have kicked in after the 4th round.

AldilaMan

Weetabix wrote: »

Interesting. Last summer in 4 qualifing rounds (3 home and 1 away) my ND was:
-7,-4,0,-4, my handicap started at 20.7 and went 18.5, 17.3, 17.3, 16.2 after the 4 rounds. Looking at that rule I think I should have went to 15.3 after the 2nd round so my club oviously don't follow this rule, if it was affected by the 2nd round being away the rule should still have kicked in after the 4th round.

Only applicable from 2012 AFAIK

Myksyk

It only applies when the scores are within 10 rounds of each other. After that the initial score is abandoned and u start again.

Villain

Tones69 wrote: »

Well my hcap secretary called me and told me where the other deducted stroke came from cos i was wondering, so id say as soon as they upload your score they check to see if you've had another recent good score (beat css by 4 or more) then make the change?

A cousin of mine got a cut under the same rule in Mount Wolseley but never got a call, played off the wrong handicapp in 4 man team event at weekend and got disqualified for having wrong handicap on card. How they called one member to tell him and not another says a lot about the committee up there!

Tones69

Villain wrote: »

Tones69 wrote: »

Well my hcap secretary called me and told me where the other deducted stroke came from cos i was wondering, so id say as soon as they upload your score they check to see if you've had another recent good score (beat css by 4 or more) then make the change?

A cousin of mine got a cut under the same rule in Mount Wolseley but never got a call, played off the wrong handicapp in 4 man team event at weekend and got disqualified for having wrong handicap on card. How they called one member to tell him and not another says a lot about the committee up there!

I called him the day before though with no answer, took him a day to return the call ha, so maybe it was just a coincidence, i always check golfnet before any event just to make sure

Villain

Yea going by the letter of the law they are correct you have to check the board, but as it was a 4 man team event and didn't need to sign into computer he didn't check, he's only 15 years old so a bit of learning to do I suppose.

Russman

Tones69 wrote: »

i always check golfnet before any event just to make sure

^^^^
+1 What he just said


It wouldn't have hurt them to call the young lad either though.

Johnny_Fontane

Tones69 wrote: »

I called him the day before though with no answer, took him a day to return the call ha, so maybe it was just a coincidence, i always check golfnet before any event just to make sure

how else can you check your handicap? If you have a good score the weekend before, you hardly go working out your handicap yourself (with css) do you?

Russman

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

how else can you check your handicap? If you have a good score the weekend before, you hardly go working out your handicap yourself (with css) do you?

Why not ? Thats how it was done before h/caps were online. Jaysus I sound old !:D:D

AldilaMan

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

how else can you check your handicap? If you have a good score the weekend before, you hardly go working out your handicap yourself (with css) do you?

Yes you do. The player is responsible for his/her handicap.

k_d

AldilaMan wrote: »

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

how else can you check your handicap? If you have a good score the weekend before, you hardly go working out your handicap yourself (with css) do you?

Yes you do. The player is responsible for his/her handicap.

I played a round last week in an open event.has not shown on golfnt. How long can it take to show on golfnt?

Dr.Silly

k_d wrote: »

I played a round last week in an open event.has not shown on golfnt. How long can it take to show on golfnt?

I've never had a delay of more than 4 days,

I'd call the club where you played the open event in and ask them to confirm they've uploaded the details.

Seve OB

Webbs wrote: »

In general I think its a great idea as we all know the players this is aimed at!

It can however catch out the player who genuinely shoots a couple of exceptional rounds and the normal cuts would be sufficient, an extra cut of perhaps a couple of shots would rule that player out of being competitive for the season. But as I said there will always be someone who gets caught out by a system like this

on the flip side, my da last year was given back an extra shot as he was consistently scoring muck!

Seve OB

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

how else can you check your handicap? If you have a good score the weekend before, you hardly go working out your handicap yourself (with css) do you?

use the text service on golfnet, works every time for me and always been bang up to date

brick tamland

Dont know, DQing a 15 year old (and 3 team-mates) for not checking to see if he was given an exceptional handicap cut ( which I assume he never heard about before ) seems crazy to me. Yeah rules are rules but a bit of common sense could have been used here, especially as the club didnt inform the lad themselves

n2o

There's definitely a case for plausible deniability. Where I play, how did i do / golfnet aren't updated until Monday evening. So if I played well on Saturday, I could cut myself going into a Sunday open comp but I couldn't possibly account for an exceptional reduction.

Russman

Does the exceptional cut happen automatically or does it have to be officially sanctioned by the h/cap sec ? I'd have thought its not automatic (ie done by the computer) and is part of the weekly/monthly reviews ?

If its automatic then there could be issues overnight from a Saturday to a Sunday.

I know people should check online etc etc but it could be messy if someone doesn't have access for whatever reason. Or if say, the Saturday cards/results aren't done until Sunday morning and the winner from Sat has played first thing on Sunday without knowing of his "extra" cut.....

All hypothetical of course, but not outside the bounds of possibility

Seve OB

Russman wrote: »

Does the exceptional cut happen automatically or does it have to be officially sanctioned by the h/cap sec ? I'd have thought its not automatic (ie done by the computer) and is part of the weekly/monthly reviews ?

If its automatic then there could be issues overnight from a Saturday to a Sunday.

I know people should check online etc etc but it could be messy if someone doesn't have access for whatever reason. Or if say, the Saturday cards/results aren't done until Sunday morning and the winner from Sat has played first thing on Sunday without knowing of his "extra" cut.....

All hypothetical of course, but not outside the bounds of possibility

I remember when I was a kid I got cut "on observation" which was basically because the guys who looked after the handicaps felt I was better than my handicap.

I have heard of a good few people being "cut on observation" over the years so I presume this is something similar to the new official "exceptional reduction" way of doing it

Sandwlch

stevieob wrote: »

I remember when I was a kid I got cut "on observation" which was basically because the guys who looked after the handicaps felt I was better than my handicap.

I have heard of a good few people being "cut on observation" over the years so I presume this is something similar to the new official "exceptional reduction" way of doing it

Not really. Cut on observation did not require any SSS beating scores - simply the observations of the h/c sec on how you were playing based on seeing you play, reports of other members, performance in teams or fourballs, etc.

Exceptional reduction is to allow for people whose game has taken a step change and they have returned multiple significant CSS beating scores withing a relatively short period. The normal adjustment system modifies handicap for a more or less stable golfer within 2 or 3 shots or whose game improves or disimproves slowly. The expectional reduction accelerates these decreases to catch up with the golfer's proven skill change quicker.

GreeBo

Sandwlch wrote: »

Not really. Cut on observation did not require any SSS beating scores - simply the observations of the h/c sec on how you were playing based on seeing you play, reports of other members, performance in teams or fourballs, etc.

Exceptional reduction is to allow for people whose game has taken a step change and they have returned multiple significant CSS beating scores withing a relatively short period. The normal adjustment system modifies handicap for a more or less stable golfer within 2 or 3 shots or whose game improves or disimproves slowly. The expectional reduction accelerates these decreases to catch up with the golfer's proven skill change quicker.

It also depends on how close you were to your buffer. For example if you missed your buffer by 1 shot 5 times that is flagged by the computer at the end of the year and you will probably get them taken back off.

thoscon

I've played 6 qualifying comps this month and beat CSS 3 times by 1,4&5 shots ,the last was last tues in castleknock when I beat CSS by 5 shots.Arrived at club yesterday to play medal was gonna cut meself to 7 as golfnet not updated yet,my actual Hc shud have been 6.8 but the computer had me at 6.4 .Rang Hc secretary today he told me the computer cut me automatically according to the new rule.

Tones69

thoscon wrote: »

I've played 6 qualifying comps this month and beat CSS 3 times by 1,4&5 shots ,the last was last tues in castleknock when I beat CSS by 5 shots.Arrived at club yesterday to play medal was gonna cut meself to 7 as golfnet not updated yet,my actual Hc shud have been 6.8 but the computer had me at 6.4 .Rang Hc secretary today he told me the computer cut me automatically according to the new rule.

One things for sure anyway, ur playing some damn good golf

thoscon

Tones69 wrote: »

One things for sure anyway, ur playing some damn good golf

Yea happy with the way things are goin .lost 2.5 shots so far this year hopefully I can keep it goin :-)

Dr_Colossus

thoscon wrote: »

Yea happy with the way things are goin .lost 2.5 shots so far this year hopefully I can keep it goin :-)

Some going especially as a cat 2 golfer and only effectively one month of qualifying competitions played, you'll be a contender for the GUI/Independent Most Improved Golfer competition at this rate if they go ahead with it in 2012. Did you spend the winter working on your game or what do you attribute to the success? Good luck with the future improvements.

thoscon

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Some going especially as a cat 2 golfer and only effectively one month of qualifying competitions played, you'll be a contender for the GUI/Independent Most Improved Golfer competition at this rate if they go ahead with it in 2012. Did you spend the winter working on your game or what do you attribute to the success? Good luck with the future improvements.

Cheers .didnt go to the range atall over the winter wud rather go out and play 9 and work on the game that way get bored very easily on the range.The big change was the mental side of my game this time last year was off 12 and if I had a bad hole I'd dwell on it and that led to more bad holes I was getting thick and my playing partners were getting pissed off with my attitude.If I was havin a good round I'd get ahead of meself and thinking of my score which would lead to me messing up again .
A pro recommended bob rotellas books so went out and bought a few of them and to be honest it's made some difference to the way I approach the game .if I have a bad hole now I just forget it and move on or if I hit a bad drive I just think about tryin to get my next shot back into position .I never get ahead of myself now always stay in the present .last week I shot 77 in castleknock in an open never once thought of my score just concentrated on the shot at hand didn't know what I had till I finished .I didn't believe in the mental side of it thought it was crap but there's alot to be said for having the right mentality and always staying in the present.

Dr_Colossus

Got a cut of 0.5 shots under the new ESR system by beating CSS by 5 shots on two occasions, 6 scores in the sequence so all makes sense.

However during the sequence I played an open day in Rathcore which hasn't been uploaded to Golfnet. No record of the competition results on HowDidIDo either so looks like Rathcore never registered the open day as a valid competition. Now it was the cold and stormy wet Wednesday a couple of weeks ago so don't think there was anyone else out on the course so is there a minimum number of competitors required to hold a valid competition?

As it turns out the missing Rathcore result doesn't make any difference to the ESR reduction but if I'd only had 4 instead of 6 results in the sequence I'd have been cut a full shot instead of 0.5 shots.

Jul3s

Yes there is a minimum required, I can't recall exactly but I think it's 12.

Robk1979

thoscon wrote: »

Cheers .didnt go to the range atall over the winter wud rather go out and play 9 and work on the game that way get bored very easily on the range.The big change was the mental side of my game this time last year was off 12 and if I had a bad hole I'd dwell on it and that led to more bad holes I was getting thick and my playing partners were getting pissed off with my attitude.If I was havin a good round I'd get ahead of meself and thinking of my score which would lead to me messing up again .
A pro recommended bob rotellas books so went out and bought a few of them and to be honest it's made some difference to the way I approach the game .if I have a bad hole now I just forget it and move on or if I hit a bad drive I just think about tryin to get my next shot back into position .I never get ahead of myself now always stay in the present .last week I shot 77 in castleknock in an open never once thought of my score just concentrated on the shot at hand didn't know what I had till I finished .I didn't believe in the mental side of it thought it was crap but there's alot to be said for having the right mentality and always staying in the present.

I did the exact same this year and I've gone from 13 this time last year to 7, not doing too much different but after reading the Bob Rotella books the mental side of my game has improved so much, saving me at least 4 and 5 shots a round. There's so much to be said for the mental side of the game and for anyone trying to lower their handicap go and get yourselves the Bob Rotella books

Tones69

Robk1979 wrote: »

thoscon wrote: »

Cheers .didnt go to the range atall over the winter wud rather go out and play 9 and work on the game that way get bored very easily on the range.The big change was the mental side of my game this time last year was off 12 and if I had a bad hole I'd dwell on it and that led to more bad holes I was getting thick and my playing partners were getting pissed off with my attitude.If I was havin a good round I'd get ahead of meself and thinking of my score which would lead to me messing up again .
A pro recommended bob rotellas books so went out and bought a few of them and to be honest it's made some difference to the way I approach the game .if I have a bad hole now I just forget it and move on or if I hit a bad drive I just think about tryin to get my next shot back into position .I never get ahead of myself now always stay in the present .last week I shot 77 in castleknock in an open never once thought of my score just concentrated on the shot at hand didn't know what I had till I finished .I didn't believe in the mental side of it thought it was crap but there's alot to be said for having the right mentality and always staying in the present.

I did the exact same this year and I've gone from 13 this time last year to 7, not doing too much different but after reading the Bob Rotella books the mental side of my game has improved so much, saving me at least 4 and 5 shots a round. There's so much to be said for the mental side of the game and for anyone trying to lower their handicap go and get yourselves the Bob Rotella books

Deffo, helped me get from 18 to 11 since march, great books

Dr_Colossus

Think they should limit the ESR to at least -5, beating CSS by 4 shots is hardly exceptional and in some courses you mightn't even feature in the prizes with such a score.
The reduction table is too simplistic also and should incorporate your handicap category into the mix. I realise the ESR doesn't apply for category 1 golfers but a full shot cut on top of normal CSS beating reductions for a category 2 golfer is savage while not necessarily that dramatic for an improving category 4 player. Furthermore the range in the average scores is too narrow, there's a massive difference between an average -5.5 and -9.5 but the same returns warrant the same cuts.
Not very fair in my opinion and normal CSS beating scores should be sufficient in adjusting your handicap. Handicap secretaries have the ability to cut improving players based on observation but if they enter singles competitions they'll be cut automatically anyway based on performance unlike team players which this system categorically avoids.

GreeBo

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Think they should limit the ESR to at least -5, beating CSS by 4 shots is hardly exceptional and in some courses you mightn't even feature in the prizes with such a score.
The reduction table is too simplistic also and should incorporate your handicap category into the mix. I realise the ESR doesn't apply for category 1 golfers but a full shot cut on top of normal CSS beating reductions for a category 2 golfer is savage while not necessarily that dramatic for an improving category 4 player. Furthermore the range in the average scores is too narrow, there's a massive difference between an average -5.5 and -9.5 but the same returns warrant the same cuts.
Not very fair in my opinion and normal CSS beating scores should be sufficient in adjusting your handicap. Handicap secretaries have the ability to cut improving players based on observation but if they enter singles competitions they'll be cut automatically anyway based on performance unlike team players which this system categorically avoids.

I think your points make sense if you are talking about beating SSS, but if you are saying the people are beating the CSS by 4 shots more than once and they never featuring then there are some other problems at that club.
(Problems that this rule will help to solve)

Camarillo Brillo

I beat CSS by 8 shots 3 weeks ago and by 5 shots on Saturday, Golfnet has been updated but I haven't recieved any ESR.
Should I have had the extra cut?

Dr_Colossus

Camarillo Brillo wrote: »

I beat CSS by 8 shots 3 weeks ago and by 5 shots on Saturday, Golfnet has been updated but I haven't recieved any ESR.
Should I have had the extra cut?

Beating CSS by 8 shots is some score, you should be cut on observation alone for that by right. Regarding the ESR, how many rounds had you between the -8 and -5 in those 3 weeks, if more than 10 where you didn't beat CSS by at least -4 then you won't get any ESR reduction this time. However if you go out and beat CSS by -4 in the coming weeks then the -5 and the new score will be taken to calculate your ESR.

Camarillo Brillo

I only had one other round between the two scores, which I got .1 back for.

Russman

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Beating CSS by 8 shots is some score, you should be cut on observation alone for that by right.

Not to go off thread, but I think singles scores surely shouldn't come into observation cuts, you break CSS and get cut automatically. Observation cuts are more intended for team events, 4 balls etc etc. You shouldn't cut a guy twice for the same score :eek:

Although the ESR does that now in a way.