IRA, CIA and/or MI6 CT questions.

Torakx

I have for a long time been considering the idea that a great many terrorist attacks and groups are funded by outside influences trying to create chaos and division.

Locally we have the I.R.A as one of the more well known and popular groups.
Also branch off groups like the real IRA and smaller ones like the INLA etc etc.
I have only a small amount of experience with INLA members and not much with IRA or TR IRA.

I remember growing up hearing that the IRA was funded by the states and that this was good news so we can "keep the brits out".

Now since i have been looking into CT's over the last few years i have more and more come to the conclusion that alot of these groups and members that werent just in it for the money and drugs, were most likely plants and agents etc for MI6 and CIA to continue division between the north and south of the country.


It makes much more sense to me when considering some of the bombings that happened on irish soil and the targets chosen.

Civilians were killed in some cases and i must consider..if i was in a group like that would i rather blow up my country men to set an example to the "enemy" or would i target something that would be more effective.

I knew someone who was imprisoned for bombing a hotel over in England a good while back and he did not seem the type to be an instigator of what im purporting, regarding the CIA/MI6 connection.
Actually one of the soundest fellas i knew and very patriotic.

Its my general belief as it stands that the IRA was a legit group.Got infiltrated and diverted for a time to continue the division socially and politically along the border.
I think its possible when the members caught on to this idea it was halted and a new section was formed called the real IRA so intel agencies could continue to cause chaos along the irish border through willing patriots with misplaced intentions.

So what are the actual known CT's relating to this?

What evidence is there available for me to decide what to think about this?

What is the current situation with these various groups?

Why would the english and even more suspiciously the americans want to keep this motion going?

Hopefully you folks can school me on the current and previous theores so we can try figure what seems likely and what doesnt.

Jeboa Safari

Far more likely that the British security forces colluded with the UVF than the IRA, especially looking at the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.
I don't see what the British would gain by perpetuating the situation in Northern Ireland, it cost them a lot in terms of security of the North itself, bombings on the British mainland including nearly killing the PM, and damage to their international reputation.
I'd imagine Britain would love to offload the north at this stage given the billions they have to pump in there every year, and the south probably couldn't afford to take on the north even if we wanted to.

Jonny7

The US support was generally from Irish expats, descendants and sympathisers to the cause of a unified Ireland, etc.

Apparently the flow of money dried up drastically after 911.

derry

Seems that Alex Jones ( www.infowars.com )has reported a few times that most all the IRA was British agents
Makes sense really like when we now know that De Valera was really a British agent and in 1916 was saved from execution because of that fact . The crown needed to get anti freedom laws past in the UK and the odd IRA bombing they arranged ensured the laws got passed.The British needed to spy on Libya so owning the IRA they could send IRA members to Libya to spy for the Brits.Also the north was British run so it was much more easy to arrange the whole thing .
Recently a lord in the House of Lords admitted in fact bragged that he alone laundered some £1 billion for the IRA over several decades
Well follow the money and where did it have go through "the house of Lords"

So we can see clearly that the IRA was mostly owned and controlled as Alex Jones say by the UK as part of their own agenda sorta like the story Irish hats we buy in tourist shops with made in china in the labels , nothing not even Irish republican beliefs is real in this world where the rich control the money system

Derry

Torakx

I remember that video in the house or lords.
I used it before in connection with something completely different lol
But good points and it opens the discussion up some too.

When i saw the name Derry i got a little shock haha.
The guy i spoke about who i knew and had been involved with a bombing in england was from Derry,wher ei lived for a few years,so i was thinking
"oh, hope he doesnt mind" haha.

kryogen

Can I ask something here, @ Derry, you say we now know Dev was a British agent, how exactly do we know this? Genuinely

sinsin

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Far more likely that the British security forces colluded with the UVF than the IRA, especially looking at the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.
I don't see what the British would gain by perpetuating the situation in Northern Ireland, it cost them a lot in terms of security of the North itself, bombings on the British mainland including nearly killing the PM, and damage to their international reputation.
I'd imagine Britain would love to offload the north at this stage given the billions they have to pump in there every year, and the south probably couldn't afford to take on the north even if we wanted to.

There is a possibility that it was an effin was game played out for practise and internal British Politics.
Read Kitson.Rhodesia,SA.
It sounds whacky but Operation Gladio and Clockwork Orange.The Wilson Plots and much more.
Adams and McGuiness.
Maybe one of the kitchen cabinet will crack.
The RC church was up to its rotten neck as usual.
It is still in play.

They are hauling us back into the union,could be West Coast oil.God knows the Brits play a long game,
And I doubt that we have ever before had as useless a leadership to lead the fight back.

sinsin

kryogen wrote: »

Can I ask something here, @ Derry, you say we now know Dev was a British agent, how exactly do we know this? Genuinely

We do not.
British agent does not mean what you think.
There are some major questions appearing and they look very suspicious.
The big issue could not be raised here.

As an anti Collins man,I can say with all my heart that Dev was good for nothing surrounded by spies and a thief.He stole The Irish Press so it was a FF tradition to elect shysters.
Cracked up in Bolands Mill.

The passport story stinks.
Lincoln Jail with the open doors.
Hid in the States stealing the cash.
Treaty.
And more much more is coming to light.
The Emergency,

Collins was surrounded by every dirt bird in London all spies.
Blythe was probably ordered to get rid of him.
Also in case some of you are smirking McGraths Irish Sweep Stake, IRB, FG,swindled millions.

McGrath not O'Brien.:rolleyes:

Jonny7

derry wrote: »

Seems that Alex Jones ( www.infowars.com )has reported a few times that most all the IRA was British agents

Alex Jones makes a lot of money doing what he does..

Makes sense really like when we now know that De Valera was really a British agent and in 1916 was saved from execution because of that fact . The crown needed to get anti freedom laws past in the UK and the odd IRA bombing they arranged ensured the laws got passed.The British needed to spy on Libya so owning the IRA they could send IRA members to Libya to spy for the Brits.Also the north was British run so it was much more easy to arrange the whole thing .

They needed to orchestrate 25 years of conflict and bombings just to spy on Libya? I dread to think what they had to do to spy on Russia.. fake the Cold War maybe?

Recently a lord in the House of Lords admitted in fact bragged that he alone laundered some £1 billion for the IRA over several decades
Well follow the money and where did it have go through "the house of Lords"

Ah Lord James of Blackheath, had a feeling he'd pop up again.

So we can see clearly that the IRA was mostly owned and controlled as Alex Jones say by the UK as part of their own agenda sorta like the story Irish hats we buy in tourist shops with made in china in the labels , nothing not even Irish republican beliefs is real in this world where the rich control the money system

Derry

Yet they can't deport one Muslim cleric..

Brown Bomber

Torax, look up the Force Research Unit.

I wouldn't trust a wikipedia link on something like this but it'll give you an overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_Research_Unit

Torakx

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Torax, look up the Force Research Unit.

I wouldn't trust a wikipedia link on something like this but it'll give you an overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_Research_Unit

aww! No fair..these guys were fighting dirty.

FRU activity on Tasking and Co-ordination Group

Allegations exist that the FRU sought restriction orders in advance of a number of loyalist paramilitary attacks in order to facilitate easy access to and escape from their target. A restriction order is a de-confliction agreement to restrict patrolling or surveillance in an area over a specified period. This de-confliction activity was carried out at a weekly Tasking and Co-ordination Group which included representatives of the RUC, Security Service and the British Army. It is claimed the FRU asked for restriction orders to be placed on areas where they knew loyalist paramilitaries were going to strike.[2]

FRU are also alleged to have handled agents within Republican paramilitary groups. A number of agents are suspected to have been handled by the FRU including IRA units who planted bombs and assassinated.I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I Attacks are said to have taken place involving FRU controlled agents highly placed within the IRA. The main agent to have been uncovered so far was codenamed "Stakeknife"..............."Stakeknife" is thought to have been a member of the IRA's Internal Security Unit- a unit responsible for counter-intelligence, interrogation and court martial of informers within the IRA. It is believed that "Stakeknife" was used by the FRU to influence the outcome of investigations conducted by the IRA's Internal Security Unit into the activities of IRA volunteers.

Hmm thats the kind of stuff i was suspecting.

Jeboa Safari

If it was in the Brits interested to keep the conflict in the north going, why do you think they have let it stop?

Torakx

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

If it was in the Brits interested to keep the conflict in the north going, why do you think they have let it stop?

Thats a good and valid question.

From this wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army

On 28 July 2005, the IRA Army Council announced an end to its armed campaign, stating that it would work to achieve its aims using "purely political and democratic programmes through exclusively peaceful means",[22] and shortly afterwards completed decommissioning. In September 2008, the nineteenth report of the Independent Monitoring Commission stated that the IRA was "committed to the political path" and no longer represented "a threat to peace or to democratic politics", and that the IRA's Army Council was "no longer operational or functional".[23][24] The organisation remains classified as a proscribed terrorist group in the UK and as an illegal organisation in the Republic of Ireland.[25][26] Two small groups split from the Provisional IRA, first in 1986 (Continuity IRA) and then in 1997 (Real IRA). Both reject the Belfast Agreement and continue to engage in paramilitary activity.

Am i to presume that it is not over?
I think a few years ago there was a car bomb that was found near a police station along the border somewhere.

But i cant remember where, when or who claimed it.
Since i havent watched the news on tv in a few years it must have been sometime around 2008-2009.

To me a bomb scare is nearly as effective as a terrorist attack.Since nearly all the targets for terrorist attacks that i ever saw on the news were retarded imo.

I dont know if its just pure luck that they found the one by the police station but missed the one in omagh.
But the omagh one would have been more effective with the Ct theory i presented in the op.

I would love if i could see a list of targets in Ireland and the ones that were intervened compared to the ones that werent.
And also the number aimed at civilians compared to military.

sinsin

It is beyond doubt that the British knew about,prepared and tracked the Omagh Bomb and watched via sattelite as it exploded.

It was needed to support Adams and MMG and wipe out their political opposition.

About thirty two Papist Irish give or take,what about it?
What can you do?
"Shut your mouth or I will arrest you"

studiorat

Regarding Libya, Gadaffi (remember him?) shipped arms to the IRA. Dunno the relevance regarding the spying on Libya thing but there was attempts to get compensation from IRA victims from Libya a few years back.

NORAID and the Ancient Order of Hibernians were donors, you'll hear different arguments whether this money went to the IRA or not.

I guess money could have changed hands for training of FARC rebels.

According to Tim Pat Coogan, the PLO offered training and arms to the IRA but it was too difficult to get the guns out of the Middle East.

I also stumbled across an IRA and ETA joint fundraiser in Spain some years back. Needless to say I didn't stick around.

I guess some people just see terrorism as a way to perpetuate chaos and division, either just for the sake of it. Or because they believe that the International Terrorism of old like the Red Brigades, Baader-Meinhof etc. validated some sort of common nationalist struggle.

This is worth a look for an idea of some of the twisted motivations. Not suitable for work BTW... > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk7qU_pUiXE The comments are probably more interesting than the video itself.

Regarding the FRU Martin Ingram's book Stakeknife is worth a read. Apart from the likes of Freddie Scappaticci and possibly one or two others most of the IRA informers seemed to come from people on the periphery of the organisation. Mostly people with a grudge against the IRA, perhaps who'd gotten a beating or people who were informers purely for monetary gain. Very few did it for moral or political reasons.

Possibly the most tantalizing conspiracy theory is that Martin McGuinness was a British Secret Agent!!!

http://cryptome.org/ingram-spies.htm

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74119

Torakx

Firstly, you would put yourself in your enemies mind and work out your own Vulnerable Points (VP). You would then - armed with this information - develop a sophisticated security department, whose sole job would be to analyse and expose any agents who work against your interests, just like the Brits have. It would be manned by dedicated and trustworthy individuals and rotated and at unpredictable intervals to disrupt any long-term infiltration. Republicans would know that the one unit in its army that could cause the most harm if compromised would be the Security/ Intelligence Department. What did the IRA do under Adams/McGuinness leadership? It established a unit manned by one ex-British marine ( J J Magee) and promoted Freddie Scappaticci to his deputy.
Now either Adams and McGuinness are the two unluckiest people on this planet or it was no accident.

http://cryptome.org/ingram-spies.htm

Thanks that is an interestign read.
Havent gotten to the second link yet.

fasttalkerchat

Who benefited from the Omagh bomb?

Fenian Army

The peace process.

It killed off nearly all remaining support for physical force republicanism.

The crown forces new about the bomb - they tracked it and MI5 apparantly "didnt share" their info with the RUC. Also, strangely enough, the police deviated from normal practice with bomb scares in Omagh, bomb scares weren't rare remember. People were normally sent the opposite direction, to a bus depot I believe. This time they werent and were ushered towards the bomb.
Personally I believe it was a result of epic mess ups by all the parties, Brits, spooks and RIRA, but there is enough meat on the bones for conspiracy heads to come to a different conclusion.

Fenian Army

Of course there were Brit agents in the IRA, but they weren't controlled by them, take when they tried (and very nearly succeeded!) to kill prime ministers - mortar bombed the war cabinet etc.

It is suggested that spooks were involved with the OIRA and brought about the split - out of a fear of the IRA establishing a Celtic Cuba of sorts.

fasttalkerchat

Fenian Army wrote: »

The peace process.

It killed off nearly all remaining support for physical force republicanism.

The crown forces new about the bomb - they tracked it and MI5 apparantly "didnt share" their info with the RUC. Also, strangely enough, the police deviated from normal practice with bomb scares in Omagh, bomb scares weren't rare remember. People were normally sent the opposite direction, to a bus depot I believe. This time they werent and were ushered towards the bomb.
Personally I believe it was a result of epic mess ups by all the parties, Brits, spooks and RIRA, but there is enough meat on the bones for conspiracy heads to come to a different conclusion.

I always believed that there was a mix up and that the RIRA thought the warning had been given. Then I started to think the Brits let it go off.

But when you go into it, this was out of character to how the RIRA had previously operated.
The other big out of character bomb was the Enniskillen memorial bomb. It was carried out by "an IRA unit from outside the area". The republican movement wasn't just riddled with touts; entire operations were carried out by the Brits.

Fenian Army

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I always believed that there was a mix up and that the RIRA thought the warning had been given. Then I started to think the Brits let it go off.

But when you go into it, this was out of character to how the RIRA had previously operated.
The other big out of character bomb was the Enniskillen memorial bomb. It was carried out by "an IRA unit from outside the area". The republican movement wasn't just riddled with touts; entire operations were carried out by the Brits.

Yes I agree, sure if Freddie Scappaticci really was steaknife then the Brits managed and oversaw the executions of many touts - their own informants.

So there is one example. If they were prepared to stand over that then I'm sure they would have allowed bombings to go ahead. (or organised them)

fasttalkerchat

Fenian Army wrote: »

Yes I agree, sure if Freddie Scappaticci really was steaknife then the Brits managed and oversaw the executions of many touts - their own informants.

So there is one example. If they were prepared to stand over that then I'm sure they would have allowed bombings to go ahead. (or organised them)

Freddie Scappaticci was more than likely steaknife. From one story I know there was a British agent doing a life term in prison!

Fenian Army

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Freddie Scappaticci was more than likely steaknife. From one story I know there was a British agent doing a life term in prison!

I don't think I'll ever fully believe it until he is killed.

sinsin

Fenian Army wrote: »

I don't think I'll ever fully believe it until he is killed.

David Rupert He is one angle.

But he is a mentally ill,pathological liar who eats live rabbits,
according to the powers that be.

That usually means somebody is telling the truth.
He was an FBI agent at the heart of the RIRA who told the Brits what was happening,I think he was with the bombmaker two weeks before and passed that info on.

http://sluggerotoole.com/ has the story and more.
You will learn nothing from RTE/BBC etc.Bookmark Slugger.