Estate vs 4x4 for a growing family...

giftgrub

The family is about to get one bigger in the coming months...

That will make me and the missus, two young kids and two dogs....

The wife also needs to carry big things for work sometimes...

The 2 door Punto just aint gonna do it anymore so we're looking at something a little bigger.

I was looking at 4x4s but they seem to be expensive to run, for some strange reason i've always been a fan of estates...

Any pros cons for either? There seems to be a good range of mid 2000s volvos v70s out there...

Jimbob 83

Volvo estate imo

John_Rambo

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Volvo estate imo

Estates are like saloons except they look better and they have more room. 4x4's make you look like a hang over from the 90's. I'd back up Jimbob with the Volvo estate. A V70. With your obvious lack of contraception, love of canines I'd get a factory roof rack and roof box too, maybe a trailer.

giftgrub

John_Rambo wrote: »

Estates are like saloons except they look better and they have more room. 4x4's make you look like a hang over from the 90's. I'd back up Jimbob with the Volvo estate. A V70. With your obvious lack of contraception, love of canines I'd get a factory roof rack and roof box too, maybe a trailer.

You can put kids in a roof box? Many peaceful journeys ahead so!!

John_Rambo

giftgrub wrote: »

You can put kids in a roof box? Many peaceful journeys ahead so!!

Hardy har.

giftgrub

giftgrub wrote: »

........

I was looking at 4x4s but they seem to be expensive to run, for some strange reason i've always been a fan of estates...

Any pros cons for either? ..............

Some 4x4s are handy for off road, Volvo estates are handy for folks with kids and dogs

Willard

you'll get way more value for money with an estate imo. I'd much rather the quality of a German or Swedish estate over a lot of the poverty spec Korean 4x4's out there.

101sean

Get a big estate, a 4x4 will make you even poorer than you're about to become anyway!

Del2005

Another +1 for the estate, proper 4x4s handle terrible compared to a car and the soft roaders are usually just an estate on steroids.

The other benefit of an estate is that the looney greens see a 2l diesel soft roader and go mad at it. You could have an M5 estate and they don't know.

birchtree

Consider 7-seaters and MPVs as well. Cheaper to maintain than 4x4s, but provides with as much space. Sharan/Galaxy/Alhambra are very spacious, Zafira is a bit smaller, but engine sizes are very reasonable.
I was going to get one of the above machines, but settled for a 1.6 A4 estate in the interim. Really wanted to go for an automatic, but got really surprised to discover that there are so few estate automatics.
By all means consider V70, I'm big fan of Volvo's, but the engine size is unforgiving.

giftgrub

birchtree wrote: »

Consider 7-seaters and MPVs as well. Cheaper to maintain than 4x4s, but provides with as much space. Sharan/Galaxy/Alhambra are very spacious, Zafira is a bit smaller, but engine sizes are very reasonable.
I was going to get one of the above machines, but settled for a 1.6 A4 estate in the interim. Really wanted to go for an automatic, but got really surprised to discover that there are so few estate automatics.
By all means consider V70, I'm big fan of Volvo's, but the engine size is unforgiving.

Sorry, cant do MPVs....

Chriscl1

giftgrub wrote: »

Sorry, cant do MPVs....

Why is that?

bernard0368

I was in the same position, dogs and new brat. I got rid of the 4x4 and went with an estate.
Great for taking the family out for the day, cheaper to run.
However some things to note, Where does the pram go etc, if you are taking the dogs with you for a day out. As Rambo suggested get a roof box.
If you use the 4x4 off road which I did for my hobbies think twice I sorely miss it, I am now looking for a cheap one.

ITDept

You may dislike the look / style of a 4x4 or an MPV but one thing to consider is that you'll be lifting the kids in and out for at least the next couple of years. Doing this with an estate generally means bending while lifting and can put quite a strain on your back. The 4x4s and MPVs are usually higher so you can lift without bending.

BostonB

Get on to Parkers and compare the interior space of boots with and without seats folded. That will quickly show the relative space of 4x4s, estates and MPV's. A lot of estates have less loading space, and can be longer (for parking) than a MPV. But many can't live with the looks of a MPV. A MPV is a much better mutli purpose vehicle than a Estate. Theres no point buying a 4x4 IMO.

That said I think this is all a smokescreen and you're really only looking for an excuse to justify buying a V70 so it doesn't really matter what anyone says. Always liked the look of them myself.

Yakuza

Just adding my experience into the mix:

I've been driving a Qashqai+2 for the last two years, plenty of room for myself, the wife and the nippers (10, almost 5 and almost 2) and even room to add in the inlaws with the two eldest kids in the rearmost seats. Boot size is decent (with rearmost seats down) and getting in / out much easier than a saloon (and buckling in the kids).

It's not my favourite car, but it's practical and will do me for the next while, until the youngest is out of the booster, then I'll be looking at a 5-Series Touring or Audi Avant.

GTE

I don't think very many people ever need the 4x4 part of the various big family jeeps out there.

Compare the cars and see which is bigger and more spacious and suits your needs on the interior, then see if the cost of the 4x4 (which I would assume is more) is worth it. My guess is that a good estate will win.

The way I see it with neighbours buying the Touregs and the X5's may have similar or more worthwhile space compared to the estates on the market but they are paying a lot to get a big vehicle started, turned and stopped on the road where a normal estate could very well have the same useful space and give you cheaper running.

With that said, I only really know of the more expensive big jeeps, that Nissan mentioned above could be interesting to compare.

cjt156

We've a V70 at home. HOOOGE inside & loadsa room for kids and labradors...I forget the current headcount but there's loads of them back there. Interior quality is excellent; durable and comfy, good kit too.
The 2.0Turbo 5 cylinder is smooth for cruising and with 180bhp is no slouch when you put the foot in it; but it is seriously thirsty - the Mrs gets 22mpg around town. It comes up to around the 30-something-mpg on the motorway.

I'm sure the newer models and diesels are more frugal, but the V70 is still the definitive estate to my eyes.

deandean

V70

or Modeo estate

or (if you appreciate a better handling car) a 5-series touring.

You can add a roof box & towbar-mounted bike rack later if & as required.

langdang

ITDept wrote: »

You may dislike the look / style of a 4x4 or an MPV but one thing to consider is that you'll be lifting the kids in and out for at least the next couple of years. Doing this with an estate generally means bending while lifting and can put quite a strain on your back. The 4x4s and MPVs are usually higher so you can lift without bending.

This is good advice, hadn't occurred to me as I haven't encountered that problem yet.

I've had both estates and 4x4 softroaders. I prefer the estates, but there is a lack of good, cheap ones. Massive surplus of cheap petrol softroaders tho!

BostonB

MPV generally have much more room between the front and back seats, allowing you to get in and sort out the kids.

ChippingSodbury

I have an A4 estate and I like it a lot but the bootspace is quite narrow. On the kid-lifting, this time around we got a Bebe carseat that turns like this one: http://www.bebeconfort.com/products/car-seats/toddler/axiss.aspx
It's the business for easy sprog loading/ unloading. The biggest problem I find with kidseats is not so much the height but the fact that you need to reach in over the side of the seat. The above seat solves that problem.

giftgrub

The anti-MPV thing is just a personal taste issue for me and the Mrs.

I've never liked the look of them, sorry!!

BostonB

Here you go...
http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3200.asp?id=10779

Tea 1000

BostonB wrote: »

Get on to Parkers and compare the interior space of boots with and without seats folded. That will quickly show the relative space of 4x4s, estates and MPV's. A lot of estates have less loading space, and can be longer (for parking) than a MPV. But many can't live with the looks of a MPV. A MPV is a much better mutli purpose vehicle than a Estate. Theres no point buying a 4x4 IMO.

That said I think this is all a smokescreen and you're really only looking for an excuse to justify buying a V70 so it doesn't really matter what anyone says. Always liked the look of them myself.

Not at all, the other way around in my experience. Softroaders and many MPV's have very little space, estates usually are much better.

BostonB

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Not at all, the other way around in my experience. Softroaders have very little space, estates usually are much better.

I'm not sure why you quoted me, what I said doesn't disagree with that.

Tea 1000

BostonB wrote: »

I'm not sure why you quoted me, what I said doesn't disagree with that.

Edited. Things like the Ford Galaxy and that size are the exception, but the Focus S-Max is less practical than a Mondeo Estate.

BostonB

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Edited. Things like the Ford Galaxy and that size are the exception, but the Focus S-Max is less practical than a Mondeo Estate.

Theres all kinda of variations, you've got tiny estates and huge ones, ditto with MPV's, but in general as you can remove the seats, or reorder them, you have more options. This was brought home to me by trying to move a piece of furniture in a A4 Avant, and it just wouldn't fit, low roof, wheel arches in the way. But it fit in a K11 Micra no problem. Granted thats an extreme example. You could have a much smaller MPV like an older C-Max, and something like an A6 estate which is much bigger.

My only point is people should look at the specific's of the model they are looking at, don't assume all MPV's and estates are similar size. They vary enormously. Some are less practical than a mid sized hatch.

But since you were so specific. How is an S-Max less practical than a Mondeo. Hard to get precise figures and it varies between models. But approx....

S Max
Boot Capacity 285 1711, 2000
Seat 2~7
Length 4770

Mondeo
boot capacity of 540~1700
Seats 2~5
length 4837.

That doesn't factor the extra legroom in the rear for getting in and out around the kids in seats, the squarer shape more shoulder space in the rear, for fitting wide kids seats. Or the higher roof line, for awkward taller loads. Higher seats for lifting kids, or seeing out, and bigger windows. A Passat estate vs a Touran would be a similar comparision. Estate having less capacity and much longer for parking.

That said if you don't like the look of a MPV then all this irrelevant.

Zubeneschamali

BostonB wrote: »

How is an S-Max less practical than a Mondeo.

He said a Focus S-Max, which is less practical because it is entirely theoretical.

Tea 1000

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He said a Focus S-Max, which is less practical because it is entirely theoretical.

Exactly! Goes to show, Ford people carriers don't exist at the top of my head!
Either way, I'd rather a 7 seater E-Class estate than a Zafira, because my kid's heads aren't the crumple zone in a rear collision. The new E-Class estate is quite big in the back too.

Marlow

ITDept wrote: »

You may dislike the look / style of a 4x4 or an MPV but one thing to consider is that you'll be lifting the kids in and out for at least the next couple of years. Doing this with an estate generally means bending while lifting and can put quite a strain on your back. The 4x4s and MPVs are usually higher so you can lift without bending.

You'd have as much space in an Estate than in most 4x4's. So you'd still need the roof box. Getting to the roof in a SUV or 4x4 can be a real pain, as it's higher up than the estate.

Also, the floor plan of a lot of smaller SUV's like for example the VW Touran is as low as in an Estate.

BostonB wrote: »

MPV generally have much more room between the front and back seats, allowing you to get in and sort out the kids.

On the other hand, they often have no space in the boot, once you have all 7 seats installed.

/M

BostonB

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He said a Focus S-Max, which is less practical because it is entirely theoretical.

Good catch. Missed that.

BostonB

Marlow wrote: »

..On the other hand, they often have no space in the boot, once you have all 7 seats installed.

In an estate with 7 seats, of which their aren't many, you'd use the rear legspace for luggage, its no different in a MPV. Also you've got much bigger footwell/legspace in the middle row of a decent MPV and you usually have a bit extra in the boot. The MPV is simply bigger. No matter where you put the bags.

That said neither has space for the luggage for 7 people anyway. You're into roofboxes at that point.

BostonB

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Exactly! Goes to show, Ford people carriers don't exist at the top of my head!
Either way, I'd rather a 7 seater E-Class estate than a Zafira, because my kid's heads aren't the crumple zone in a rear collision. The new E-Class estate is quite big in the back too.

You'd prefer the €60k car vs the €25k one. Wouldn't have expected that. I'd rather be in that too.

Marlow

BostonB wrote: »

That said neither has space for the luggage for 7 people anyway. You're into roofboxes at that point.

Yep. And in the Estate, it's easier to get at the roof box. Plus SUV and MPV's ar the most uggly things out there.

If one needs a 7-seater, you're really into VW Caravelle or Merc Vanio territory.

/M

BostonB

Marlow wrote: »

Yep. And in the Estate, it's easier to get at the roof box. Plus SUV and MPV's ar the most uggly things out there.

If one needs a 7-seater, you're really into VW Caravelle or Merc Vanio territory.

/M

You point seems to be if you need 7 seats and a roofbox all the time, you don't need an estate or an MPV.

The point I made was a MPV was more practical in its intended use. 5+ and carrying loads/bootspace leg room. You said it a MPV was less practical, and have said nothing to back that up.

The OP is suggested he is looking for something practical for a growing family. But in fact practicality isn't the main criteria here. Its the looks, or more specifically he likes the looks of estates. To that my only answer is check out the rear leg space, and boot capacity. Some estates aren't as big as you might imagine.

Marlow

BostonB wrote: »

To that my only answer is check out the rear leg space, and boot capacity. Some estates aren't as big as you might imagine.

That might be true for the likes of a 3-series estate.

The Volvo V70, BMW 5-series estate and the likes of the Audi A6 have more than plenty of leg-space, even for adults.

/M

BostonB

The issue isn't to do with adults stretching their legs,, but getting in to sort out the kids, in which case something like a S Max has a lot more space between the front and middle row for access. MPV's often have a lot of extra storage bins, in the roof, doors and even the floor for things like Nintendo's, DVD, toys and books.

Its purely a personal choice of much room you would like to have have. There enough space in a micra for kids or adults to get from A to B. I know one guy who drove around France in a Fiat Cinquecento with a family of four luggage and a couple of bikes.

Again you can chose what you need. Someone commenting on a friends sport car that it couldn't carry much luggage was told. I won't be bringing anyone who brings a lot of clothes!

Dilbert75

I wouldn't underestimate the value of having a raised back seat, for handling babies & small kids, so for that reason I'd personally prefer an MPV. Given the choice, however, between estate & 4WD, it'd be estate every time.

birchtree

deandean wrote: »

V70

or Modeo estate

or (if you appreciate a better handling car) a 5-series touring.

You can add a roof box & towbar-mounted bike rack later if & as required.

Now now, don't compare V70 with Mondeo! And hi-end V70 outperforms and outclass low-end 5-series! I'm Volvo fan, just had to take a stance here!

Any opinions on V50?

I came across another interesting crossover between sporty and family types - Mitsubishi Lancer Estate. I took a 05 one for a test drive - its not an evo, but has a sporty feel to it, and comes with the estate size of a boot. There is even a leather interior 1.6 auto version - quite rare though.

eth0

giftgrub wrote: »

You can put kids in a roof box? Many peaceful journeys ahead so!!

Get the one with the 100w heater.