Giving first aid to people

BogMonkey

I was walking past a bus stop yesterday and spotted an old man lying on the ground so I went over and saw a small pool of blood by his head. There were already two people there, one of them calling an ambulance but nobody was doing anything to stop the bleeding. I was about to take off my t-shirt (I had a hoody on so I coulda done without it) and tie it around his head to stop the bleeding but then I started thinking that I might end up making it worse (his whole face was covered in blood so I didn't know where the cut was) or since it was a head injury, could end up killing the poor lad. In that kinda situation, should you help or are you better off waiting for the ambulance to get there? I did a bit of first aid training as part of another course years ago but I never had to use any of it so I forgot most of it. Beaumont hospital was just around the corner and the ambulance showed up in 15 minutes so in this case it was grand but it inspired me to learn basic first aid properly. Have any of you done basic first aid training? If so, did you get some kind of accrediation for it? Even if you never end up having to use the knowledge, it would be good for the CV.

Dermighty

My line of thinking is if you don't know anything/much about first aid then don't try and help (unless it pulling someone from a burning car or something)

Hanley

Dermighty wrote: »

My line of thinking is if you don't know anything/much about first aid then don't try and help (unless it pulling someone from a burning car or something)

Yeah that tbh. I understand the need to help but it's like a lad with a weekend self defense course trying to fight off 4 attackers instead if running or a guy who's done a few PT sessions trying to coach his mate. I just think it breeds false sense of confidence.

BUT in a life or death situation you're gonna be more useful with some basic training. I think St John's/The Order of Malta do different levels
Of training.

First Aid Ireland

If you learn CPR/ how to use a defibrillator that will serve you well. Add in how to deal with severe bleeding and choking and unconsciousness, and that will cover you for an awful lot of the bad stuff that you can be faced with.

You've rightly identified that people forget the stuff that they learn very quickly. One of the problems with this is that most first aid certs are valid for 2 years, which is too long. I always tell our students that I recommend that they attend a course as often as they can (every 6-8 months). But nowadays people, understandably, don't want to keep shelling out for courses.

We should be teaching this stuff in school. It would put people like me out of business, but it would be so useful for society!

CeannRua

Dermighty wrote: »

My line of thinking is if you don't know anything/much about first aid then don't try and help (unless it pulling someone from a burning car or something)

Agreed but also think that if someone has adequate training for the situation before them, won't cause more harm than good etc etc, they should help. Two former colleagues of mine resuscitated a customer who collapsed and stopped breathing. I don't know if that person would be alive if they hadn't intervened. A couple of months ago at work, I happened along after a customer had had an epileptic seizure. There were three other staff (panicked) and 10+ customers standing there looking at him not knowing what to do and that's a relatively simple situation to deal with.

calfmuscle

I think you need to be wary of helping people if you are not trained but at the same time don't think there is nothing you can do. Calling an ambulance, keeping them warm and just trying to calm the injured person (provided they are conscious) can be really helpful.

thehamo

I did a basic first aid course last weekend. CPR stuff was good and would be quite confident in a applying it should the situation arise.

However, for pretty much everything else, it boiled down to make them as comfortable as possible and get a trained paramedic on the scene. For 90% of situations this would be the case. You are never going to fix someone on the roadside. Just do what you can until an ambulance gets there. Tbh all boils down to common sense. Read the situation and decide from there

First Aid Ireland

thehamo wrote: »

I did a basic first aid course last weekend. CPR stuff was good and would be quite confident in a applying it should the situation arise.

However, for pretty much everything else, it boiled down to make them as comfortable as possible and get a trained paramedic on the scene. For 90% of situations this would be the case. You are never going to fix someone on the roadside. Just do what you can until an ambulance gets there. Tbh all boils down to common sense. Read the situation and decide from there

While I would agree with you to an extent, there are a few situations where A) The condition can kill you and You can learn how to deal with it in the pre-hospital environment without being a paramedic.

If I'm teaching a short first aid course, I'd cover those things. CPR/ use of a defibrillator is life saving without a doubt. Dealing with a choking person is life saving. So is the control of major bleeding, the use of the recovery position to protect the airway of an unconscious patient. Shock is also a very dangerous condition and, while you won't "cure" it outside of hospital, you can certainly learn to minimise its effects.

If people knew how to deal with the above, then they'd be much more confident in helping people, in my humble opinion. They would also be very useful to have on scene.

thehamo

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

thehamo wrote: »

I did a basic first aid course last weekend. CPR stuff was good and would be quite confident in a applying it should the situation arise.

However, for pretty much everything else, it boiled down to make them as comfortable as possible and get a trained paramedic on the scene. For 90% of situations this would be the case. You are never going to fix someone on the roadside. Just do what you can until an ambulance gets there. Tbh all boils down to common sense. Read the situation and decide from there

While I would agree with you to an extent, there are a few situations where A) The condition can kill you and You can learn how to deal with it in the pre-hospital environment without being a paramedic.

If I'm teaching a short first aid course, I'd cover those things. CPR/ use of a defibrillator is life saving without a doubt. Dealing with a choking person is life saving. So is the control of major bleeding, the use of the recovery position to protect the airway of an unconscious patient. Shock is also a very dangerous condition and, while you won't "cure" it outside of hospital, you can certainly learn to minimise its effects.

If people knew how to deal with the above, then they'd be much more confident in helping people, in my humble opinion. They would also be very useful to have on scene.

Oh totally agree with what you are saying and they were all things covered on the course I was doing.

What I was really getting at is some people feel as though they have to fix the situation they find themselves in where as they are only a stop gap for proper medical attentiom. Again common sense prevails, If u see someone choking your not going to call an ambulance and wait til they come, it's a there and now situation. On the other hand, if someone dislocates a shoulder on a rugby pitch, you arent qualified to do anything other than try and make them as comfortable as possible. once your aware of your limitations and expectations, I think you would be much more comfortable giving first aid

Deise Musashi

Have any of you done basic first aid training? If so, did you get some kind of accrediation for it?

Yes, I'm an occupational first aider and First Responder.

I've competed internationally in our companies First Aid comp.

I will help out if I can, but if it gets bad I hope my wife is around (feckin' deadly Nurse with years of experience in ****e situations)

First Aid Ireland

thehamo wrote: »

Oh totally agree with what you are saying and they were all things covered on the course I was doing.

What I was really getting at is some people feel as though they have to fix the situation they find themselves in where as they are only a stop gap for proper medical attentiom. Again common sense prevails, If u see someone choking your not going to call an ambulance and wait til they come, it's a there and now situation. On the other hand, if someone dislocates a shoulder on a rugby pitch, you arent qualified to do anything other than try and make them as comfortable as possible. once your aware of your limitations and expectations, I think you would be much more comfortable giving first aid

You can assess and treat for shock if needed. You can get info on allergies,medications, other medical conditions, time of last meal etc that can be really useful for those of us working in the hospital (especially useful if the patient were to lose consciousness enroute to the hospital...though it's unlikely in the above situation). There are almost alwats useful things you can do if you're trained properly.

It's important to get your training for people who have experience dealing with lots of sick people, as opposed to people who've just done a first aid course followed by a course in how to teach it.

I agree with you, though, that it's often important to realise what you can't do, as well as what you can do.

BogMonkey

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

You've rightly identified that people forget the stuff that they learn very quickly. One of the problems with this is that most first aid certs are valid for 2 years, which is too long. I always tell our students that I recommend that they attend a course as often as they can (every 6-8 months). But nowadays people, understandably, don't want to keep shelling out for courses.

We should be teaching this stuff in school. It would put people like me out of business, but it would be so useful for society!

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Out of all the useless bull**** they teach in school, they should be able to make some room for knowledge thats actually useful to everyone. The whole school thing is a joke in my opinion. They need to teach students things that will come in useful for everyone, not just things that are useful if you want to pass an exam or things that may be useful if you happen to become a geologist etc. However, theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge are 2 different things. To be able to apply theoretical knowledge, you need experience. While I theoretically know how to stop severe bleeding, I've never done it before so when I actually do it, things might not go as planned. i.e. I could apply too much pressure and end up completely cutting off the blood flow to a limb, resulting in hypoxia induced necrosis.

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

You can assess and treat for shock if needed. You can get info on allergies,medications, other medical conditions, time of last meal etc that can be really useful for those of us working in the hospital (especially useful if the patient were to lose consciousness enroute to the hospital...though it's unlikely in the above situation). There are almost alwats useful things you can do if you're trained properly.

Yeah theres all kinds of things you can do if you have some knowledge of the matter. For example, if I see someone overdose on heroin, I am 100% positive that I can cure him by administering an IV dose of naloxone. Problem is I've never administered an IV dose of anything to anyone so I wouldn't even know how to find a vein. So I think as part of a school curriculum, they should implement practical work too in hospitals in which the students perform some basic tasks that a nurse would ordinarily perform. It would have to be strictly controlled by the nurses but it could work. While setting up a system like this would cost the government a lot of money, in the long run, it would reduce the cost of healthcare because less people would be checking themselves into the ER or doctors offices with ailments that they could treat themselves.

First Aid Ireland

BogMonkey wrote: »

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Out of all the useless bull**** they teach in school, they should be able to make some room for knowledge thats actually useful to everyone. The whole school thing is a joke in my opinion. They need to teach students things that will come in useful for everyone, not just things that are useful if you want to pass an exam or things that may be useful if you happen to become a geologist etc. However, theoretical knowledge and practical knowledge are 2 different things. To be able to apply theoretical knowledge, you need experience. While I theoretically know how to stop severe bleeding, I've never done it before so when I actually do it, things might not go as planned. i.e. I could apply too much pressure and end up completely cutting off the blood flow to a limb, resulting in hypoxia induced necrosis.


Yeah theres all kinds of things you can do if you have some knowledge of the matter. For example, if I see someone overdose on heroin, I am 100% positive that I can cure him by administering an IV dose of naloxone. Problem is I've never administered an IV dose of anything to anyone so I wouldn't even know how to find a vein. So I think as part of a school curriculum, they should implement practical work too in hospitals in which the students perform some basic tasks that a nurse would ordinarily perform. It would have to be strictly controlled by the nurses but it could work. While setting up a system like this would cost the government a lot of money, in the long run, it would reduce the cost of healthcare because less people would be checking themselves into the ER or doctors offices with ailments that they could treat themselves.

My feeling is that if people learned how to give CPR/Use an AED, deal with choking, severe bleeding and put somebody in the recovery position, that would be a phenomenal school first aid curriculum. It's very unlikely to ever happen, but that would be the important stuff, in my humbler.

calfmuscle

First Aid Ireland wrote: »

My feeling is that if people learned how to give CPR/Use an AED, deal with choking, severe bleeding and put somebody in the recovery position, that would be a phenomenal school first aid curriculum. It's very unlikely to ever happen, but that would be the important stuff, in my humbler.

I have a quick question regarding treatment of asthma attacks. Sorry if this is off topic!

I saw somebody having an asthma attack on Saturday afternoon, there were two trained first aiders with the person so I didnt interfere. However the woman had no inhaler with her. The first aiders had her breathing into a damp cloth. It just didnt seem the right thing to be doing as the lint etc from the cloth could be an irritant, has anyone heard of this before?

First Aid Ireland

calfmuscle wrote: »

I have a quick question regarding treatment of asthma attacks. Sorry if this is off topic!

I saw somebody having an asthma attack on Saturday afternoon, there were two trained first aiders with the person so I didnt interfere. However the woman had no inhaler with her. The first aiders had her breathing into a damp cloth. It just didnt seem the right thing to be doing as the lint etc from the cloth could be an irritant, has anyone heard of this before?

It's virtually impossible to comment on an individual case, so I won't. But the above wouldn't be standard treatment for an asthma attack. On the other hand, however, we don't know all the facts.

krystal123

In my opinion the first aid training is good for everybody living around us and I think that everyone should do it and remember it as well.First Aid training teaches how to help others when they have a hard time like if they are injured or wounded badly.It can be anyone like in your home, on the road , in the office.I have also done first aid training and once helped a poor small kid who swallowed a coin and it stuck in his throat.So I suggest first aid training for everybody.:)